:00:04. > :00:11.to some tenants, including the disabled and foster carers. That is
:00:11. > :00:17.a summary of the headlines. Now it is time for HARDtalk. A dangerous
:00:17. > :00:23.political storm is blowing through the melodies. The island nation's
:00:23. > :00:33.young democracy is under threat. -- the mother dies. Former president
:00:33. > :00:34.
:00:34. > :00:41.Mohamed Nasheed is at the centre of these. He claims there was a coup
:00:41. > :00:48.against him. Amid furious protests and violent clashes, it is the
:00:48. > :00:58.ousted President pushing his country to the brink of chaos? --
:00:58. > :01:15.
:01:15. > :01:20.Maldives. Mohamed Nasheed in the capital. Welcome to HARDtalk. I
:01:20. > :01:24.will begin with a simple first question. On February 7th you
:01:24. > :01:32.resigned. Shortly Leyte you announced you had been the victim
:01:32. > :01:40.of a coup. Tommy what really happened? On February 6th at 5:00
:01:40. > :01:47.am I went to the National Security Centre because there were police
:01:47. > :01:53.outside. I wanted the military to arrest them. I asked the military
:01:53. > :01:57.to arrest them. I worked on it until 11am the next day. But the
:01:58. > :02:03.military refused. Later on they joined with the police and together
:02:03. > :02:10.they gave me an ultimatum that I should resign within one hour. In
:02:10. > :02:16.front of that kind of hostility and the threats that they were very
:02:17. > :02:21.clearly demonstrating to everyone, I resigned, because I did not want
:02:21. > :02:26.the military would the police to use arms and start shooting at the
:02:26. > :02:33.people. Nor did I want the police to storm the National Security
:02:33. > :02:42.headquarters. In the interests of the people and pistes, I decided
:02:43. > :02:50.the best thing at that time I could do was to resign. -- and peace. I
:02:50. > :02:54.resigned under duress. I want to be clear about this. Some have
:02:54. > :02:59.suggested that when you made that public declaration of resignation,
:02:59. > :03:08.he had guns pointed at your head - literally. Is that your claim or
:03:08. > :03:12.not? No, literally, there were no guns and at my head at that point.
:03:13. > :03:18.But I had resigned by the time I gave the state him. They had taken
:03:18. > :03:24.a letter from me by the time I get the statement. The statement was
:03:24. > :03:30.after the resignation. We have statements from several people - if
:03:30. > :03:36.I may give you an example - from the current President, Mohammad
:03:36. > :03:39.Wahid, who was vice-president at that time. He said he saw you will
:03:39. > :03:45.then terribly writing out the letter of resignation, putting on
:03:45. > :03:51.your best suit, going to make you stay put. He said it is entirely
:03:51. > :03:55.false to say it was a coup. He was not there. He could not have seen
:03:55. > :04:01.the writing the letter. There were three military personnel in front
:04:01. > :04:08.of me and 18 others a few stairs behind me. The vice-president was
:04:08. > :04:11.not there. How do you explain the fact that the Indian High
:04:11. > :04:18.Commission is quoted by Indian media sources as saying you had
:04:18. > :04:21.spoken to them hours before the resignation and had explained that
:04:21. > :04:27.because of the unrest in your country and the potential for great
:04:27. > :04:33.bloodshed you had decided to quit the presidential offers? That
:04:34. > :04:38.sounds to me like a resignation, not a coup. I had to quit because
:04:38. > :04:42.there was a beaten us police force outside and the national security
:04:42. > :04:48.forces had joined the police if the knee and had given me an ultimatum
:04:48. > :04:55.that if I did not reside within one hour they would use arms on me and
:04:55. > :04:59.on the people. Isn't the truth that you resign because he failed? You
:04:59. > :05:05.failed to maintain the security of your nation, the most fundamental
:05:05. > :05:09.duty of any President, and you had lost control of many of the people
:05:09. > :05:18.in your country including those within your armed forces. It had
:05:18. > :05:25.failed! Our country is a very tender it democracy. After 30 years
:05:25. > :05:30.of dictatorship we have a new constitution. Unlike in the past,
:05:31. > :05:36.we did not purged the police or the military. Need it did we arrest
:05:36. > :05:42.anybody from the Opposition or the previous dictatorship. We wanted to
:05:42. > :05:46.see how we could work with people. We wanted to see how we could do
:05:46. > :05:51.things more pleasantly. I did not remove in the body from the
:05:51. > :05:55.military or the police. The idea was that we will be able to work it
:05:55. > :06:05.out so that democracy can be consolidated over the period of
:06:05. > :06:10.time. While we were doing it, all of long, the old dictatorship has
:06:10. > :06:16.been trying to come back and with the help of the police and the
:06:16. > :06:22.military they forced me to resign. They are back. It is not an Dr
:06:22. > :06:28.Wahid. It is the old order it in a new facade. He is the vice-
:06:28. > :06:33.president. He knew about the queue. He knew what was going on. -- the
:06:33. > :06:43.coup. We have to get the mum dies back on track. We need democracy
:06:43. > :06:45.
:06:45. > :06:48.here. -- Maldives. The people want to see the constitution and
:06:48. > :06:54.democracy implemented. You must look at what is happening in this
:06:54. > :07:00.country. Hundreds of people, thousands of people are out on the
:07:00. > :07:05.streets. They are all going to continue with the democracy
:07:05. > :07:09.establishment work and we are doing. They were going to. That is why
:07:09. > :07:15.people are out on the streets calling for an election. I have
:07:15. > :07:18.been forcibly removed from office and now we cannot make the
:07:18. > :07:24.illegitimate government run. We need fresh elections as quickly as
:07:24. > :07:28.possible. Your problem is that of you describe it as an illegitimate
:07:28. > :07:32.government put in place by a rebellion within the security
:07:32. > :07:41.forces, that is not the way it is being seen by influential outside
:07:41. > :07:50.powers. Why is it that the United States, the UK, India, all appear
:07:50. > :07:55.to recognise the legitimacy of President Wahid? The Indian
:07:55. > :08:02.government and the US and the United Nations a baby to
:08:02. > :08:07.investigate into the events and how the transfer of power happen. They
:08:07. > :08:13.say whoever is in power, they will have to work with the status quo.
:08:13. > :08:17.It is not necessarily recognising the Government. William Hague said
:08:17. > :08:24.it would be difficult for them to recognise the Government and to
:08:24. > :08:29.what they are clear on what happened in transfer of power. We
:08:29. > :08:36.have a Commonwealth Legal Action Group coming to our country on the
:08:36. > :08:45.17th. They will ascertain the facts and find out what happened during
:08:45. > :08:54.the six and the 7th, which is during the transfer of power. --
:08:54. > :08:59.6th. I am not hiding. Usually when people are forced to resign, the
:08:59. > :09:07.whole country is in euphoria with the new government. That is not
:09:07. > :09:17.what we pass the here. Bang on. Everybody is out on the streets
:09:17. > :09:23.
:09:23. > :09:28.supporting me. - may hang on. Many turn your logic around. If it was a
:09:28. > :09:32.force for Cook, it seems odd that you are sitting happily in a TV
:09:32. > :09:37.studio in Mali talking to me telling me what a terrible thing
:09:37. > :09:41.has befallen you. The current presidents aides or your rights and
:09:41. > :09:46.privileges will be respected and he wants you to work with him to
:09:46. > :09:52.ensure calm and stability in the country. That is a very odd coot.
:09:53. > :09:57.Usually somebody like you would end up in a dungeon. Yes, usually that
:09:57. > :10:02.happens. But as soon as this happened I was able to step out of
:10:02. > :10:08.the military headquarters. I said I would only write the letter in the
:10:08. > :10:12.presidential office. Then I was able to come to my people, with the
:10:12. > :10:15.farce majority realised what is happening, and they came out in
:10:15. > :10:21.support of me. I can talk to you today because there are thousands
:10:21. > :10:27.of people outside supporting us. I have an arrest warrant on leave.
:10:27. > :10:33.The police are trying to get to me. I am only able to speak to you
:10:33. > :10:39.because the vast majority of the people of this country support me.
:10:39. > :10:44.Do you believe you are going to be arrested? I have a court order out
:10:44. > :10:49.on May. The police want to arrest me. But the people will not let
:10:49. > :10:57.that happen. They are surrounding me all the time. Even the TV
:10:57. > :11:03.station I am talking to now, they will be her rest soon after ride
:11:03. > :11:09.the fear. Everybody is working in high risk. -- they will be harassed
:11:09. > :11:15.soon after I leave here. But they want democracy so they are all out
:11:15. > :11:20.there and defending us. You are playing a dangerous game. Voters
:11:20. > :11:25.have turned to violence in the last few days, not just in Mali. Also in
:11:25. > :11:32.your stronghold. Your supporters stand accused of burning down more
:11:32. > :11:35.than a dozen police stations. If you do not do what the Americans
:11:35. > :11:41.ask - co-operate with the new president - you could turn the
:11:41. > :11:48.country into chaos. If I did co- operate, this country would go down
:11:48. > :11:53.the drain immediately. The people elected a leader - me. I have been
:11:53. > :11:59.forcibly removed and they want me back. I am saying, OK, it's that
:11:59. > :12:05.new elections. We can then see what the people want. If I step aside
:12:05. > :12:08.and joined the rebel gunmen, the people will lose faith. The
:12:08. > :12:12.international community must understand that to serve the
:12:12. > :12:17.interests, you first have to serve the interest of the people of this
:12:17. > :12:23.country. It is only through fat that you will be able to serve your
:12:23. > :12:28.own interest. He cannot ignore the people. They want democracy here.
:12:28. > :12:35.They want an election. They elected a leader and their elected leader
:12:35. > :12:39.has been removed by force. Let's be clear about one thing. Are you
:12:40. > :12:46.categorically say that you and your party will not co-operate with the
:12:46. > :12:54.new President and will not join a national unity government? Sub beat
:12:54. > :12:59.many international bodies want to see. It is called national unity.
:12:59. > :13:04.It would unified the old order. He would not unified the people. We
:13:04. > :13:10.cannot take part in this government. We cannot be a unifying force for
:13:10. > :13:16.the old order. The people rejected that through the ballot and free
:13:16. > :13:19.elections. Our first free and fair election. When people take over
:13:19. > :13:28.power through any means, it does not mean stability can come by
:13:28. > :13:33.joining with the rebels. That cannot happen. It can't happen? OK,
:13:33. > :13:38.but is clear enough. We have you state that. It cannot happen that
:13:38. > :13:45.you will join a national unity government. So we can expect more
:13:45. > :13:51.confrontation on the streets? is not a national unity government.
:13:51. > :14:01.It is only the unification of the old order. It has nothing to do
:14:01. > :14:05.
:14:05. > :14:09.You think the President is in some way operating with Association of
:14:09. > :14:16.the former president. Let me ask you this. Many people do not
:14:16. > :14:23.understand one thing about your recent record. Why did you order
:14:23. > :14:28.the arrest of a senior judge in the criminal court, without a warrant
:14:28. > :14:37.or due process, simply because he released one of your political
:14:37. > :14:40.opponents? He was not a political opponent. In November the
:14:40. > :14:46.commission, the constitutional commission looking at the judges,
:14:46. > :14:52.they took the action against that charge. They said that he was not
:14:52. > :14:56.fit to sit on the bench. That was their decision. Nothing happened.
:14:57. > :15:03.He was still sitting. In December, nothing happened, he was still
:15:03. > :15:11.sitting. In January, nothing happened. I had to act. It was in
:15:11. > :15:17.the interest, and the justice system people lost confidence in
:15:17. > :15:23.the judiciary system. He was a judge, where the Commission had
:15:23. > :15:31.said he was not fit to be a judge. He was still sitting. He was still
:15:31. > :15:36.doing judgments. I had to defend the constitution. I had to create
:15:36. > :15:41.confidence in the judiciary. I will do it again. I will interrupt you.
:15:41. > :15:46.It seems this is the crux of the story of your demise as President
:15:46. > :15:52.of the male leads. We remember you as a human-rights campaigner. We
:15:52. > :15:57.will remember you as a prisoner of conscience. Just one month ago, you
:15:57. > :16:03.order the arrest of one of the most senior judges. Too many people in
:16:03. > :16:10.your country, that flew in the face of your own record of principle.
:16:10. > :16:16.Exactly, this is true. The old order, many things were happening.
:16:16. > :16:20.They were hiding behind the judiciary. We have not been able to
:16:20. > :16:24.an act the judiciary according to the new constitution. All of the
:16:24. > :16:28.judges are hand-picked by the former president. They were still
:16:28. > :16:33.there. They were dishing out sentences according to the old
:16:33. > :16:40.order. They were hiding behind the judiciary. That was one thing. The
:16:40. > :16:44.other thing was powerful businessmen, as before,
:16:44. > :16:49.continuously hit influence in the judiciary through corruption and
:16:49. > :16:53.through favours. We had to have an independent judiciary. This is one
:16:53. > :17:01.of the reasons why the people and the Mail Beaves wanted a new
:17:01. > :17:06.constitution. They wanted fairness and justice. This was done
:17:06. > :17:10.according to be due course. That was done with the Commission taking
:17:10. > :17:17.the steps and said he was not fit to be a judge and he was removed.
:17:17. > :17:24.It took three months and I finally had to do it. I against, it had to
:17:24. > :17:29.be done. I don't want to arrest anyone. He was removed and taken to
:17:29. > :17:34.an installation. He was given access to a lawyer. He was given
:17:34. > :17:41.rights and everyone had access and nothing happened him. I cut not let
:17:41. > :17:48.him sit on the bench when the judiciary Commission. The fact is,
:17:48. > :17:57.all this trouble with the rebellion and the police all began after his
:17:57. > :18:00.arrest of that judge. The court said it was unconstitutional. The
:18:00. > :18:06.human rights Commission said he should be charged or released
:18:06. > :18:10.immediately. The vice-president said it was shameful. The police
:18:10. > :18:18.now want to ask you some very serious questions about why you did
:18:18. > :18:24.that. Are you prepared to claw operate with police? The police
:18:24. > :18:31.want to frame me, to discredit me. There will be new elections, that's
:18:31. > :18:38.what they want. They know the old leadership as been embroiled in a
:18:38. > :18:45.coup and they need to answer police. To counter that, now they want me
:18:45. > :18:49.to be discredited. That what the police run after me and want to
:18:49. > :18:59.arrest me. The court order you mention, that was actually released
:18:59. > :19:00.
:19:00. > :19:05.before I was supposed all forced to resign. This was not true. What
:19:05. > :19:12.happened here is we were not able to suppress the old walled a
:19:12. > :19:18.because we did not want to sound heavy-handed. We ran the process.
:19:18. > :19:24.When we started the reforms and the judiciary they knew they could not
:19:24. > :19:30.hide behind that anymore. We had six opposition MPs with criminal
:19:30. > :19:34.cases in the same court. They did not want the court to be reformed.
:19:34. > :19:41.He was corruption cases, human rights abuses. They don't want that
:19:41. > :19:49.looked into. That's why they were so concerned when we employed his
:19:49. > :19:59.judiciary. There was no popular demonstration here. There was
:19:59. > :19:59.
:19:59. > :20:06.always demonstrations. You have made your point. They want to be
:20:06. > :20:12.out of power. We do not have much time. Some quick questions here.
:20:12. > :20:17.The first question is this. You spent time in exile war. You
:20:17. > :20:22.believe you will have to go back to political exile again, given these
:20:23. > :20:27.current predicaments? No, we will have elections here. The people
:20:27. > :20:37.here want an election and we will have an election. We are holding on
:20:37. > :20:38.
:20:38. > :20:44.to the people. The sentiments are boiling over. We can hold on.
:20:44. > :20:54.Peaceful activity is going on here until the elections. We is your
:20:54. > :20:59.family? My family is here in the Maldives. We your family stay?
:20:59. > :21:05.will all stay. Whatever happens we will stay and we will win the
:21:05. > :21:12.election. We will have an early collection. The international
:21:12. > :21:18.community cannot be served by Brazil - back preserving this
:21:18. > :21:22.status quo and we cannot let that happen. You cannot do that. We need
:21:22. > :21:28.to serve the interests of the people here. The position you
:21:28. > :21:36.outline his suggests that the Maldives may be heading for serious
:21:36. > :21:40.internal conflict over the next few weeks. Would you agree? I hope the
:21:40. > :21:45.international community understands. I hope the rebel government
:21:45. > :21:53.understands that they do not have a chance to continue. They cannot run
:21:53. > :21:59.the Government. Mohamed Waheed does not have one single seat. We have a
:21:59. > :22:09.working majority. One of her Cabinet he has must come through
:22:09. > :22:09.
:22:09. > :22:15.the parliament. Unless they arrest the Mall. It will be impossible. We
:22:15. > :22:19.need to have a fresh election. disappointed are you with the
:22:19. > :22:26.reaction I out my milieu of the international community. They have
:22:26. > :22:33.on. Some of them have not. The British
:22:33. > :22:39.Government has. Most European have. The Commonwealth has. The Indian
:22:40. > :22:43.government and the US do not. Blair understand it security adviser from
:22:43. > :22:50.India will visit the Maldives and I think they will come round to see
:22:50. > :22:56.what has happened. Both India and the US cannot ascertain what has
:22:56. > :23:01.happened here. We may come here they will see what has happened. At
:23:01. > :23:06.this time the governments have made a statement. They find it difficult
:23:06. > :23:10.to turn around. Once the Act is clearly understood, they will all
:23:11. > :23:15.support an early election and I hope the Indian government and the
:23:15. > :23:22.US government will come round to that position in the next few days.
:23:22. > :23:28.A final thought, you spend years in prison in Burma bids over the last
:23:28. > :23:34.20 years because it your fight for political freedom. You now prepared
:23:35. > :23:40.to go back to prison? If need be, I'm ready to go back to prison.
:23:40. > :23:45.Fortunately, the people, the vast majority, are with us and I do not
:23:45. > :23:50.see any reason why I should go to prison. I think the rebels should
:23:50. > :23:53.go to prison, the new juniors should go to prison. Those who used
:23:53. > :24:01.force to remove the Government should go to prison. I'm sure they