:00:10. > :00:15.I will not attend them. It is time for HARDtalk now.
:00:15. > :00:21.This summer, Ukraine is co-hosting the European football championships
:00:22. > :00:26.but don't be deceived by the sporting camaraderie. Ukraine's
:00:26. > :00:31.political relationship with the EU is in crisis. The most pressing
:00:31. > :00:35.dispute concerns Yulia Tymoshenko, the former prime minister in jail
:00:35. > :00:41.for seven years after a trial dismissed as a political a charade
:00:41. > :00:51.by many in the west. My guest today is her daughter, Yevgenia
:00:51. > :01:16.
:01:16. > :01:20.Tymoshenko. What does the family Welcome to HARDtalk. You have been
:01:20. > :01:28.thrust into a role that you can never have wanted - campaigning on
:01:28. > :01:34.behalf of your mother. What is it like we do? Actually I have started
:01:34. > :01:41.as my mother's public defender in the court key ring back in August.
:01:41. > :01:51.Since she was illegally arrested. I became a witness, in voluntary
:01:51. > :01:51.
:01:51. > :01:56.witness of the process. You were in court every day? Every day. It was
:01:56. > :02:04.held with no brakes, no possibility for the defence to prepare the
:02:04. > :02:10.strategy. I was able to see the ugly picture behind the so-called
:02:10. > :02:17.independent judicial system. took a couple of months for the
:02:17. > :02:26.court procedures to unfold. Was your mother very surprised to be
:02:26. > :02:32.convicted and to be sentenced? Today, actually ten years ago today
:02:32. > :02:37.I was in England and both of my parents and my grandfather were in
:02:37. > :02:47.prison for political repression and I can see it as deja-vu from this
:02:47. > :02:48.
:02:48. > :02:53.event. What is happening now is the result of my mother's fight with
:02:53. > :03:03.corruption. Her goal as a politician is to keep going, keep
:03:03. > :03:07.
:03:07. > :03:11.fighting for democracy in Ukraine. We can say that she thought she
:03:11. > :03:16.would be persecuted as the main political opponent. She prepared
:03:16. > :03:24.herself for the likelihood she was going to be in prison?
:03:24. > :03:33.questioning her and visits to the prosecutor's office started in
:03:33. > :03:39.early 2010. It started to become evident that she would be one of
:03:39. > :03:45.the main victims of the political repression again. She has had
:03:45. > :03:54.several months in prison and was moved from a cell in Kiev to a
:03:54. > :03:59.prison camp, a penal camp 300 miles east of Kiev. There is speculation
:03:59. > :04:06.about her health. She has seen independent doctors from other
:04:06. > :04:14.countries. How is her health? in bad condition. It is getting
:04:14. > :04:22.worse and has been so since her arrest. She started having symptoms
:04:22. > :04:29.on her skin after a couple of weeks into the arrest and now, starting
:04:29. > :04:35.from October she has been suffering back pain. She cannot walk. She has
:04:35. > :04:42.not had any medical treatment so far. The doctor's report has not
:04:42. > :04:46.been fully released but they point to a hernia problem. The Ukrainian
:04:46. > :04:52.authorities have a look that the report and said this is a
:04:52. > :04:56.validation of our treatment of her. They are not suggesting she needs
:04:56. > :05:00.special surgery. Are you satisfied that she is getting the treatment
:05:01. > :05:05.she needs? She's not getting any treatment actually, at the moment.
:05:05. > :05:13.We don't know if she will get treatment. It has been a very hard
:05:13. > :05:19.battle for us to get an independent doctor to see her. Diplomats and
:05:20. > :05:26.the world to put pressure on authorities. After a few days of
:05:26. > :05:30.battling they managed to see her but now when main issue their
:05:30. > :05:36.preliminary diagnosis and are preparing the recommendations, the
:05:37. > :05:42.doctors from the Ministry of Health in Ukraine keep manipulating and
:05:42. > :05:46.also find the diagnosis. understand, of course, why it you
:05:46. > :05:51.are campaigning around the world to get your mother out. You have to
:05:51. > :05:58.accept that she went through due process in Ukraine. There was a
:05:58. > :06:02.court preceding open to the public. She was convicted in a court of law
:06:02. > :06:06.under Ukrainian law. She was found guilty of exceeding her authority
:06:06. > :06:12.when she was prime minister, particularly in relation to the gas
:06:12. > :06:17.deal with the Russians in 2009. And she is in prison. You call on the
:06:17. > :06:26.President to release her but that would be flying in the face of due
:06:26. > :06:36.process, of the constitution, would it not? There are many explanations
:06:36. > :06:36.
:06:36. > :06:42.as to what is going on. Their earlier in the process a report was
:06:42. > :06:48.commissioned in regard to the political repression in Ukraine.
:06:48. > :06:57.They say it is 100% politically motivated. After the promised
:06:57. > :07:07.reforms for the judiciary system, there is a prosecutor-general, head
:07:07. > :07:16.
:07:16. > :07:21.of security service - who has left. Claiming by the government that the
:07:21. > :07:26.judiciary system is independent is a liar and misinformation. I do not
:07:26. > :07:31.believe your mother consistently called it corrupt and Russian to
:07:31. > :07:36.the core when she was prime minister, a leading figure in the
:07:36. > :07:40.Ukrainian political elite. When she was the Prime Minister she had very
:07:40. > :07:47.high responsibility but very limited powers and instruments to
:07:47. > :07:54.implement reforms. After the victory was stolen, just before the
:07:54. > :07:59.Orange Revolution, she did not go after him. She didn't have used the
:07:59. > :08:07.law system, the criminal court to put him to prison for falsifying
:08:07. > :08:13.the elections for using corrupt measures to get to the presidency.
:08:13. > :08:20.She had much more important things to do. To care for the population
:08:21. > :08:27.via social and economic reforms. want to talk to you about her
:08:27. > :08:32.relationship with that the former and current presidents. She now
:08:32. > :08:39.faces the prospect of more charges. These charges go back to the late
:08:39. > :08:49.1990s when she was the very powerful loner, with your father,
:08:49. > :08:49.
:08:49. > :08:54.of an energy company that made an awful lot of money. She's connected
:08:54. > :08:57.with fraud due to the vast amount of money she made in that time. In
:08:57. > :09:06.Ukraine there are questions about her economic activities at the
:09:06. > :09:11.times. There are certain problems with the so-called criminal cases.
:09:11. > :09:17.They are fundamental problems. They have been closed by the Supreme
:09:17. > :09:23.Court of Ukraine six years ago when my mother was in opposition already.
:09:23. > :09:28.The Criminal Cases go back to the 1990s and do not have legal basis.
:09:28. > :09:33.In the time they accused her of some economic mishandling she was
:09:33. > :09:39.not part of the corporation any more. She left the corporation in
:09:39. > :09:44.1996 when she started politics. would not deny that she was a close
:09:44. > :09:50.associate of a former premier of Ukraine who eventually fled the
:09:50. > :09:53.country under a cloud of allegations and in California was
:09:53. > :09:59.convicted of money laundering. She clearly benefited from her link to
:09:59. > :10:06.this man who many would call a classic Ukrainian oligarch of the
:10:06. > :10:15.time. He was prime minister then and she was a business woman, very
:10:15. > :10:19.successful and she started the really huge corporation. Recreate
:10:19. > :10:23.to the trade links between ex Soviet countries after the collapse
:10:23. > :10:32.of the Soviet Union. The amount of benefit the Corporation brought was
:10:32. > :10:38.immense. Primarily, your family. Had she and your father decided
:10:38. > :10:48.that perhaps it is time to be about how much money your parents
:10:48. > :10:49.
:10:49. > :10:53.made at that time? Theories of the cynicism and about -- there is
:10:53. > :10:57.cynicism about politicians. If your mother wants to prove that her
:10:57. > :11:02.hands are entirely clean, wouldn't it be good to be transparent about
:11:02. > :11:09.this period of her life? It is completely transparent. The amount
:11:09. > :11:15.of time and effort, money that has been spent to investigate her
:11:15. > :11:24.corrupt activities and you see the results - the Supreme Court closed
:11:24. > :11:28.the Criminal Cases. No corruption. This time now all of the charges
:11:28. > :11:33.have no legal basis at all because they have been resurrected from
:11:33. > :11:37.something that has been proven and accepted as having no criminal
:11:38. > :11:41.substance at all. It seems your mother feels she is being
:11:41. > :11:48.personally persecuted in a very direct way by the President. Is
:11:48. > :11:55.that true? If you look at the way the courts went, the charges
:11:55. > :12:00.against her, they have been disproved an seen as absurd charges
:12:00. > :12:06.by the democratic world. Accepted as such. Let me stop you there. You
:12:06. > :12:11.have said several times they are absurd. Why is it that there hasn't
:12:11. > :12:17.been a greater public reaction inside Ukraine? Hundreds of people,
:12:17. > :12:21.your mother's supporters. A few people tried to demonstrate outside
:12:21. > :12:27.the prison. We remember the vast hundreds of thousands of people
:12:27. > :12:32.from the Orange revolution which your mother co-led. Why haven't
:12:32. > :12:40.those crowds been out there for your mother? There is a simple
:12:40. > :12:50.answer for this. My mother was free and if that was the case the
:12:50. > :12:53.
:12:53. > :13:03.protests would be bigger. People... If people cared enough about your
:13:03. > :13:03.
:13:03. > :13:08.mother's plight wouldn't they be There are show trials not just for
:13:08. > :13:13.my mother but many politicians and ex-colleagues. They have increased
:13:13. > :13:17.the number of police and militia forces by hundreds. They have
:13:17. > :13:24.increased their pay and their rank. You can see that even after a small
:13:24. > :13:27.protest happens, twice as many police and militia are outside
:13:27. > :13:33.trying to force people out on the street -- of the street.
:13:33. > :13:39.It seems to me that there may be one reason why there is some apathy
:13:39. > :13:43.in regard to your mother's current situation, is that it is deep
:13:44. > :13:48.disappointment inside the Ukraine at what happened to the Orange
:13:48. > :13:52.revolution. What happened to the relationship between your mother
:13:53. > :13:58.and the former President? The CEO leaders of the revolution mood then
:13:58. > :14:01.had the opportunity to govern together. It failed miserably and
:14:01. > :14:06.they found out and engaged in a vendetta and a fight between the
:14:06. > :14:11.two of them and we saw in the end, the former President testified in
:14:11. > :14:17.accord effectively against your mother, saying that the deal your
:14:17. > :14:20.mother had struck with the Russians was unjustifiably high a price and
:14:20. > :14:25.only political motives could have played a role. National interests
:14:25. > :14:33.were traded for political considerations - an incredibly
:14:33. > :14:38.damning indictment of your mother. I can say only a few things. There
:14:38. > :14:43.have been national polls going at the moment in the Ukraine which say
:14:43. > :14:53.that the President's popularity is less than 1% but my mother's
:14:53. > :14:54.
:14:54. > :14:58.popularity is 3% and growing. His popularity is plummeting. Talking
:14:58. > :15:03.about their relationship, I am not a politician and I was not bear
:15:03. > :15:09.during all of this protest at the time but I saw that my mother did
:15:09. > :15:15.everything she could. She did everything she could with the
:15:15. > :15:20.instruments she had to agree to negotiate this difficult contract.
:15:20. > :15:26.She attempted to make agreements with the International Monetary
:15:27. > :15:31.Fund to get through very, very hard times economically and with social
:15:31. > :15:39.reforms to support people who are up warm such as single mothers,
:15:39. > :15:45.pensioners and disabled people. But what people remember are a
:15:45. > :15:49.fight between your mother. -- what people remember are the fight
:15:49. > :15:53.between a mother and the President. Some up for me what she thinks of
:15:53. > :15:58.him now? During the trial, I was present and
:15:59. > :16:06.he gave a humiliating and horrible witness statement during the court
:16:06. > :16:15.case. By trying to give value as a whole struggle of the Orange
:16:15. > :16:21.revolution. My mother kept silent, although she could ask him and many
:16:22. > :16:26.questions to counter his arguments but she kept silent because she did
:16:26. > :16:30.not want to completely ruin this idea that the people fought for and
:16:30. > :16:37.that she fought for so much during this time and I remember, for
:16:37. > :16:41.example, when she pushed for a very transparent privatisation in the
:16:41. > :16:46.Ukraine, the President was just signing a decree with one signature
:16:46. > :16:50.to cancel all of these good things they could of been done.
:16:50. > :16:55.Your characterisation of what the President said in court is not
:16:55. > :16:59.shared by him and his supporters. But it is shared by millions of
:16:59. > :17:03.people in Ukraine. He that is something that may or
:17:03. > :17:09.may not be subject to future legal action in the Ukraine but certainly
:17:09. > :17:12.we need to be clear that it is very much your opinion. But let us
:17:13. > :17:17.change the focus here. It seems to me that a lot of the campaigning
:17:17. > :17:21.and what you are doing right now is not so much inside the Ukraine and
:17:21. > :17:25.talking to people and the Ukraine in getting them out in support of
:17:25. > :17:28.your mother but it is aimed at western powers. You spend a lot of
:17:28. > :17:32.time and the United States and European capitals trying to rally
:17:32. > :17:37.support in the West. There is it that because it is easier for you
:17:37. > :17:42.to deal with the West? When you sit in a courtroom and you
:17:42. > :17:49.hear the judges rejecting everything that the Defence says
:17:49. > :17:54.that is true, finding and the cases some stupid mistakes... Light,
:17:55. > :18:01.there were materials collected on 31st April or in a future date
:18:01. > :18:05.which does not exist. There are so many breaches of human rights you
:18:05. > :18:09.see there and so many breaches of the law and constitution...
:18:09. > :18:13.Your anger and your passion to write what you perceive to be a
:18:13. > :18:18.wrong seems to involve you spending an awful lot of time outside your
:18:18. > :18:25.country in the West. Years because you visit -- because
:18:25. > :18:31.when I tried to visit my mother and I have no right to and my mother is
:18:31. > :18:36.not getting any medical treatment, she is being tortured. There is
:18:36. > :18:40.nobody in the Ukraine that can help me and solve this problem. The
:18:40. > :18:44.President, the top person in the Ukraine, chose to lead this kind of
:18:44. > :18:49.oppression that has been condemned by the whole world for many times.
:18:49. > :18:56.Nothing can the done. So you want the United States and
:18:56. > :18:59.the European Union to... What? Sent a message via sanctions or what? We
:19:00. > :19:03.have already seen the European Union freeze the trade and
:19:03. > :19:05.political agreement that they were going to sign with the Ukraine but
:19:05. > :19:11.how much further do you want them to go?
:19:11. > :19:15.I am here and I am talking about what is happening in the Ukraine,
:19:15. > :19:22.but democratic crisis that is going on and talking on bar of a million
:19:22. > :19:25.people who feel the same as I feel now and what is happening to my
:19:25. > :19:31.mother is the pinnacle of this whole crisis and this horrible
:19:31. > :19:36.breach of every human rights. There is no rule of law in the Ukraine.
:19:36. > :19:42.We respect that all of the studies of the Ukraine done by independent
:19:42. > :19:45.experts, they do not suggest that
:19:45. > :19:50.bitter when the your mother was Prime Minister over the last six or
:19:50. > :19:58.seven years. There has been constant advice t the Ukraine that
:19:58. > :20:02.it needs to improve its political freedoms, its media freedoms...
:20:02. > :20:09.Nevertheless, according to Freedom House, we were a free country but
:20:09. > :20:13.now we are only partially free. During my mother's incumbency, we
:20:13. > :20:16.became part of the World Trade Organisation and we started
:20:16. > :20:19.negotiations and to a free-trade agreement with the European Union
:20:19. > :20:23.but that has now been undermined completely by the government.
:20:23. > :20:27.It is interesting thatsting thater from prison sent a messent a mesg
:20:27. > :20:31.that she did not want that political and free trade agreement
:20:31. > :20:35.with the European Union to be blocked because of her situation.
:20:35. > :20:39.She pleaded for both sides to go ahead and sign the agreement, Quote
:20:39. > :20:44.unquote, for the good of the country.
:20:44. > :20:48.She believed that strongly and now that in spite of the pain, in spite
:20:48. > :20:54.that she has to lie down and be always in bed and in pain and under
:20:54. > :20:58.write letters to her family and
:20:58. > :21:02.articles to the public about what is going on, she is opposing what
:21:02. > :21:06.is going on inside the Ukraine but she does not want the Ukraine to
:21:06. > :21:11.see the sanctions applied against the whole of the nation and the
:21:11. > :21:17.whole of the people. At least half of the voting populatig populatior
:21:17. > :21:22.her so why should they suffer for the actions of a government that is
:21:22. > :21:30.completely going in the wrong direction from the future.
:21:30. > :21:35.I am a little bit puzzled. Your message to the leaders in obdurate
:21:35. > :21:38.-- Europe is that you want them to block this important trade
:21:38. > :21:47.agreement or do you want it to be signed?
:21:47. > :21:55.Are of course, it is not for asked to decide... Beat the -- we do not
:21:55. > :22:01.want any sanctions for this important agreement, this chance
:22:01. > :22:05.for the Ukraine. That has already - - already been done by the
:22:05. > :22:15.government who have undermined this. All I am asking... All we are
:22:15. > :22:19.
:22:19. > :22:28.asking and the mentality of the people in power now is abusive and
:22:28. > :22:33.they are using... Corruption levels had been revealed to be critical.
:22:33. > :22:37.Before we finish, I want to know - it is a critical year. The Ukraine
:22:37. > :22:41.is on display to the world and there are Parliamentary elections
:22:41. > :22:44.later in the year. You have been so outspoken in recent months. Would
:22:44. > :22:50.you continue to campaign through the election period and that you
:22:50. > :22:55.yourself take up the political so long?
:22:55. > :23:00.I never want to be a politician and I am not planning to run any
:23:00. > :23:03.political campaign... It seems as if you have to because
:23:03. > :23:07.you are becoming political of necessity.
:23:07. > :23:14.It is mostly provocation done by the regime's media, saying that I
:23:14. > :23:17.am running for political office. By political goal but that is
:23:17. > :23:21.completely untrue and it is done to the value my efforts to do anything
:23:21. > :23:25.helpful for my mother and for political prisoners in beat Ukraine.
:23:25. > :23:28.Solely my mission is to help spread the message -- message and help
:23:28. > :23:31.people. Do you believe you will free your
:23:31. > :23:36.mother this year? I hope so.