:00:04. > :00:14.for Democracy party. They want to swear to safeguard, protect rather
:00:14. > :00:19.than safeguard the constitution. Now it is time for HARDtalk. This
:00:19. > :00:22.is the Globe Theatre in London. It is a magical recreation of the
:00:22. > :00:27.place where Shakespeare honed his theatrical genius in the late 16th
:00:27. > :00:34.century. Over the next six weeks, something remarkable is happening
:00:34. > :00:38.here. It be one of his 37 plays, each in a different language,
:00:38. > :00:43.performed by theatre companies from around the world. My guess is the
:00:43. > :00:47.honorary president of the Globe Theatre, Zoe Wanamaker. It was her
:00:47. > :00:54.father whose drive and determination led to the building
:00:54. > :01:04.of this theatre. Today, Shakespeare, the stage and the family's artistic
:01:04. > :01:26.
:01:26. > :01:30.Zoe Wanamaker, welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. You and your family are
:01:30. > :01:40.so intimately tied to the theatre. Does it feel very special coming
:01:40. > :01:44.
:01:44. > :01:48.here? Yes, yes it does. It feels unbelievable, actually. Sam, I
:01:48. > :01:54.suppose I should call him Sam because it is better than Daddy, he
:01:54. > :02:01.struggled so hard for this. I could never understand why it was such a
:02:01. > :02:08.struggle but yet he persisted. The tenacity of the man was astounding.
:02:08. > :02:14.His vision was also astounding. said this after his death, of
:02:14. > :02:17.course he died before this thing was finally finished, you said "for
:02:17. > :02:25.25 years of his life, I think he sacrificed himself for what became
:02:25. > :02:35.an almost impossible quest to get this theatre built." and Arthurian
:02:35. > :02:42.quest is quite an image. Was it his obsession? Yes. I think it has been
:02:42. > :02:49.an obsession of his for a very long time. I think he first started in
:02:49. > :02:56.1948, 49. He could not understand why the Gold was not here. There
:02:56. > :03:06.was a plaque on the wall. -- Gold. From photographs that I had when he
:03:06. > :03:14.was young, he was about 18, he was doing shows, cut down Shakespeare
:03:14. > :03:18.all day. There is a photograph of him standing very proudly doing in
:03:18. > :03:25.Midsummer Night's Dream. There is a whole list of plays. He was doing
:03:25. > :03:31.that then. He is a Jewish boy, an American Jewish boy. An American
:03:31. > :03:36.Jewish boy from Chicago. I do not understand, of what was the
:03:36. > :03:39.connection to Shakespeare? It is so deep. I think what he was trying to
:03:39. > :03:47.get this place build, they thought he wanted to build an American
:03:47. > :03:54.theme park. Yes. Even though the theatrical community that was
:03:54. > :04:00.around then was the very anti-it, they thought it was going to be
:04:00. > :04:06.exactly as you say, and there was this snobbery about it. I think
:04:06. > :04:13.because he was an American and an interloper to some extent, there
:04:14. > :04:19.was also a feeling that he was rich, because he was an American,
:04:19. > :04:24.naturally, and he should build it himself. He was asking of the
:04:24. > :04:31.Committee of Suffolk to do that. He was not only asking for the theatre,
:04:31. > :04:35.he wanted a kind of a university here. He wanted it to be the world
:04:35. > :04:43.centre for Shakespeare studies. He had an image of the South Bank
:04:43. > :04:49.suddenly becoming a place of art, like this then in Paris. He said to
:04:49. > :04:55.me, "you wait, Suffolk is going to explode. This whole area is going
:04:56. > :05:02.to take off." And it has. This part of London has completely changed
:05:02. > :05:07.over the past 20 years. Yes. Here is an intrusive, personal question.
:05:07. > :05:13.Do you resent as a doctor, alongside your mum Andrews Sisters,
:05:14. > :05:23.the fact that, to use your idea, but this Arthurian quest took over
:05:24. > :05:25.
:05:25. > :05:29.his life? I could not understand it. There were a lot of doubters. I
:05:29. > :05:34.wondered why he was doing this, why he was giving himself such a hard
:05:34. > :05:40.time. He was completely driven by this complete a belief that it
:05:40. > :05:46.should happen. He believed they should be a success, an exciting
:05:46. > :05:52.place. No, I wasn't resentful at all. I think my mother might have
:05:52. > :05:56.been. It is interesting to reflect when we think about what ultimately
:05:56. > :06:01.was achieved here and what your father will always be associated
:06:01. > :06:06.with, it is interesting to reflect that, when he first came to the UK,
:06:06. > :06:10.and of course he had been a leading actor and director in the US for
:06:10. > :06:20.some time, when he came here, he and your mother were living under a
:06:20. > :06:24.huge cloud because they were living in exile. Your dad had been
:06:24. > :06:27.blacklisted and was being investigated. We now know that he
:06:27. > :06:34.was under surveillance by British intelligence as well. Were you
:06:35. > :06:42.aware of any of this? The not at all. Did he talk about it later in
:06:42. > :06:50.life? Later in life, yes. When after Miller was still alive and we
:06:50. > :07:00.were doing The Crucible, that was very much about McCarthy, he said
:07:00. > :07:01.
:07:01. > :07:06.that he had joined the Communist Party. He said they wanted to
:07:06. > :07:13.support the Soviet Union. This was during the wall as well. Then he
:07:13. > :07:23.gradually realised as said he wanted to resign from the Communist
:07:23. > :07:29.Party. -- during the war. That stigma never left. As far as the
:07:29. > :07:36.story, as far as my mother tells it, he was asked to do a film in
:07:36. > :07:39.England and that is how he got leave to go because he had to go to
:07:39. > :07:47.work and mummy put everything in storage, the house in Connecticut,
:07:47. > :07:55.which he had built, and they put everything in storage and they came
:07:55. > :07:59.here. Then he was summoned to go before the committee. Neither of
:07:59. > :08:09.them were in the country so that was not possible. Then his passport
:08:09. > :08:13.
:08:13. > :08:23.was taken away. There they lived here. It was not a surprise to me
:08:23. > :08:25.
:08:25. > :08:28.that the Gold happened. -- Globe. Then he started working here. The
:08:28. > :08:33.Liverpool theatre raised its head and he opened a theatre in
:08:33. > :08:39.Liverpool which was open 17 hours a day. There was a coffee bar,
:08:39. > :08:47.restaurant, a little art gallery, shows for kids... De ringing the
:08:47. > :08:52.theatre to the masses. -- bringing the theatre. It was the first
:08:52. > :08:58.theatre of its kind in England. I could be wrong about that. He had
:08:58. > :09:02.West End actresses and actors coming to play in Liverpool. Before
:09:02. > :09:08.we finished with your father, one last question about this. It seems
:09:08. > :09:11.to me that this story has unfolded throughout July. Over the last few
:09:11. > :09:16.years, but you have learned extraordinary things about the
:09:16. > :09:19.degree of stability was under in this country and the fact that at
:09:19. > :09:23.one time British intelligence had him on the list so that if there
:09:23. > :09:28.was ever a war with the Soviet Union, your father was going to be
:09:28. > :09:35.interned as a suspect, I wonder, as all this has come out, has this
:09:35. > :09:39.made you feel conflicted about the sense to which you feel the
:09:39. > :09:46.British? You were born an American but you are British. Has this
:09:46. > :09:50.change your view at all? No. It has not changed my view. I think the
:09:50. > :09:58.world has changed since I was growing up. I know my parents loved
:09:58. > :10:07.being here. They loved being in England. They loved the English.
:10:07. > :10:17.They felt that it was a happy place to be, even after the war. Also,
:10:17. > :10:20.
:10:20. > :10:29.when I went back I did a programme called Who Du You Think You Are? It
:10:29. > :10:35.was an eye-opener. I was standing beside Abraham Lincoln's memorial.
:10:35. > :10:41.I was looking at that extraordinary Parc and seeing what used to be
:10:41. > :10:47.marsh land. -- Park. The effort of millions of people that went into
:10:47. > :10:51.making it. It was a very powerful feeling. I felt very proud to have
:10:51. > :10:57.that American passport. Went in that strikes me is Richard Dadd,
:10:57. > :11:01.clearly, was a man of very strong principle and strong belief. -- is
:11:01. > :11:05.that your dad. He had strong opinions about you. When you
:11:05. > :11:10.decided to go into acting, it was very much against the advice of
:11:10. > :11:15.your parents. You said that your father always keep you note that
:11:15. > :11:19.your performances. You said that when he asked -- when you asked for
:11:19. > :11:26.them, he was deeply honest and can be very hurtful. You chose a
:11:26. > :11:32.difficult path for yourself. Yes. Why? Why did you believe that you
:11:32. > :11:37.had to act, even the your parents said it may be a bad idea for you.
:11:37. > :11:45.It was something that I really wanted to do. It was something that
:11:45. > :11:55.I saw in both of them, my mother as well, a passion about. It is a
:11:55. > :11:58.
:11:58. > :12:08.passionate job. It is a hard job and it is tough. I am fascinated
:12:08. > :12:13.about this craft. As long as that passion and interest stays with you,
:12:13. > :12:21.I think there was nothing that they could do. Sitting here particularly,
:12:21. > :12:26.I get the real sense of her exposing it is. Yes. You are on a
:12:26. > :12:30.stage, unlike even film and television where if you miss
:12:30. > :12:36.something upbeat and do it again, on the stage, there is no place to
:12:36. > :12:46.hide. -- If you fluff something, you can do it again. You get to
:12:46. > :12:49.
:12:49. > :12:53.rehearse. You get to practise. The wonderful thing about life theatre
:12:53. > :12:57.is the relationship with the audience and that is exactly what
:12:57. > :13:04.this theatre gives. You can rehearse for a long time without
:13:04. > :13:10.the audience but once you get into the theatre, that is when you start
:13:10. > :13:16.learning again. That is because you're working with a 4th person,
:13:16. > :13:23.an animal, a beast. That is the excitement and that is the joy.
:13:23. > :13:28.just wonder whether it is frustrating for you because for
:13:28. > :13:33.decades she had been at the top of the tree in acting and classical
:13:33. > :13:40.performances of Shakespeare and Chekhov on all sorts of things but
:13:40. > :13:45.there are a lot of people who work in popular sitcoms or do cameos in
:13:45. > :13:54.Harry Potter a Dr Who and reach an audience of tens of millions and
:13:54. > :14:01.frankly the theatre cannot do that. Is that frustrating? That is a fact.
:14:02. > :14:07.It is a fact. The medium of film and television is so powerful. You
:14:07. > :14:11.know, you can be playing Hamlet here to packed houses for a year
:14:11. > :14:20.and you won't reach the amount of people that you would for one night
:14:20. > :14:25.on television. It is crazy but it is true. It doesn't, that is the
:14:25. > :14:30.way it is for all stop you say it is the way it is with the sense of
:14:30. > :14:34.resignation. -- the way it is. You see it is the way it is with the
:14:34. > :14:38.sense of resignation. There are things you have not accepted with a
:14:38. > :14:42.sense of resignation. Things you have addressed with your long role
:14:42. > :14:47.in one of Britain's popular situation comedies, you had to
:14:47. > :14:52.fight tooth and nail to get pay that was equal to Robert Lindsay.
:14:52. > :15:01.You said it was not fair. Women do not get paid as well, do not get
:15:01. > :15:05.treated as well as men in the the acting profession. It is a big
:15:05. > :15:13.beer. There are more powerful woman pop singers now than there
:15:13. > :15:23.everywhere. That is great. That is important. I suppose it is, I think
:15:23. > :15:23.
:15:23. > :15:31.the next generation will probably You are treading a fine line.
:15:31. > :15:37.Clearly you care but there is a limited the amount you can do. He
:15:37. > :15:42.was so political and so determined to play a political party, do you
:15:42. > :15:49.think you inherited that and do you get angry about things? I do get
:15:49. > :15:54.angry about things. But I do not have his clarity. I leave it to
:15:54. > :16:00.those who can to do it. When it comes to some think like,
:16:00. > :16:08.principles, I do have principles and I stick to them. Here is one
:16:08. > :16:13.thing, not so much as an actor, but more in your role and the Globe
:16:13. > :16:19.Theatre as honorary president. The Governor is proposing to change the
:16:19. > :16:25.way in which donations are treated for tax purposes, making it less
:16:25. > :16:31.attractive for big donors to give chunks of money to theatres such as
:16:31. > :16:36.this one. This fit any said because you rely on charitable donations. -
:16:36. > :16:46.- this theatre. Tell me what your responses to what the government is
:16:46. > :16:51.
:16:51. > :16:59.doing. There is a Yiddish word for this. It means crazy. It is crazy.
:16:59. > :17:09.I think in order to try and look smart, this government is cutting
:17:09. > :17:14.
:17:14. > :17:23.off its nose to spite its face. In America they have it right. There
:17:23. > :17:29.is a tax break in making charitable donations. There is some sort of
:17:29. > :17:34.kudos for doing that. And here... There is going to be the Sam
:17:34. > :17:40.Wanamaker Theatre, an indoor theatre. That is the ambition to
:17:40. > :17:46.complete it. Yes. Given what has just happened, or what is about to
:17:46. > :17:50.happen in terms of the change in the tax rules, will it get
:17:50. > :17:58.finished? If this plan goes through will it get this? Yes, of course.
:17:58. > :18:04.You have the money? We have some of the Murray. We have �4.5 million.
:18:04. > :18:08.We need �7 million. It is going to be finished. If I am anything like
:18:08. > :18:13.my father I will make sure it will get done. Let's talk about what is
:18:13. > :18:18.going to happen here soon. That reflects a lot of these but you
:18:19. > :18:23.have talked about, that your father had. There are feared to companies
:18:23. > :18:28.from all over the world to do Shakespeare in a 37 different
:18:28. > :18:33.languages for 37 different Shakespeare plays. What is it, with
:18:33. > :18:42.all your experience, about Shakespeare's that makes him so
:18:42. > :18:51.ensuring for so many people across the world? -- enduring. I think
:18:51. > :18:59.Shakespeare understood the human heart better than anyone. I feel
:18:59. > :19:02.that he is next to God in some ways because of his inside fullness, his
:19:02. > :19:07.sensitivity, his incredible knowledge of human nature, his
:19:07. > :19:13.understanding of human nature, their frailties. His jokes still
:19:13. > :19:19.work, most of them. Did you remember, when you opened this
:19:19. > :19:26.place, while the Queen opened it but you were invited to be the
:19:26. > :19:33.first speaker. Yes. You did a prologue. From Henry the fair.
:19:33. > :19:39.were the opening words? For the news of a fire. I am not going to
:19:39. > :19:45.go on. It is a perfect speech in the chorus of Henry the Fed. It is
:19:45. > :19:55.exactly what the Globe Theatre CEO what my father felt about this
:19:55. > :19:56.
:19:56. > :20:03.place. -- Henry the Fifth. It asks the audience to use their
:20:03. > :20:12.imagination and to imagine soldiers and kingdoms and kings and queens
:20:13. > :20:19.and battles, and imagine them. Within this wouldn't Churcher. --
:20:19. > :20:23.wouldn't it structure. For me that was extremely hard to do. It was
:20:23. > :20:29.all so exciting. I see the light shining in your eyes as you
:20:29. > :20:39.remember that. Why have you never know grief to actually perform
:20:39. > :20:46.
:20:46. > :20:56.here? -- -- why have you never agreed. Too much would be on me.
:20:56. > :21:06.Too little would be on the work. That is why I have not. I know what
:21:06. > :21:07.
:21:07. > :21:13.it cost them, but my father and my mother, in energy and frustration -
:21:13. > :21:21.- both. It is quite moving when I come in here, every time I come in
:21:21. > :21:26.this building. I feel very emotional. It is an exciting space.
:21:26. > :21:32.It is a fantastic space. You talk about they motion are connected
:21:32. > :21:42.with this space. I will ask you one last thing -- they motion. I know
:21:42. > :21:43.
:21:43. > :21:53.it is difficult. -- the emotion. One thing you have made a point of
:21:53. > :21:54.
:21:54. > :21:58.speaking about his euthanasia -- is. Your father had a difficult death.
:21:58. > :22:03.You enjoy sisters have spoken openly about the way you feel that
:22:03. > :22:12.is wrong and the way you feel the law should allow people the freedom
:22:12. > :22:22.to help their loved ones to die -- you and your sisters. Do you think
:22:22. > :22:23.
:22:24. > :22:31.Britain is moving towards that idea of an -- allowing the youth in --
:22:31. > :22:38.euthanasia. I feel very strongly about it. If somebody does not have
:22:38. > :22:47.any quality of life, what is the point? I just get emotional about
:22:47. > :22:54.it. I can speak emotionally about it. My father was told he only had
:22:54. > :22:58.six months to live. He survived by nearly a year. With that tenacity
:22:58. > :23:08.of holding on a desperately, because he wanted this place to be
:23:08. > :23:17.built and he wanted to see it... And then not being allowed to end
:23:18. > :23:27.his life peacefully, quietly, in his own bed... It does raise the
:23:28. > :23:29.
:23:29. > :23:32.question if you feel so strongly about it, which you with your
:23:32. > :23:38.sisters, would you have been prepared to end his life? Yes,
:23:38. > :23:48.absolutely. Are you sure? Yes. We were prepared. My only problem is
:23:48. > :23:58.that... Sorry. It was slightly comic. I did not want him to fight
:23:58. > :24:07.me. He was a strong man. It should not be that the family is put in
:24:07. > :24:17.this kind of position where it is called murder. We were on the list
:24:17. > :24:26.of potential murderers. To end, we look around here. Your father's