:00:03. > :00:12.end the quest for justice for the families of the victims.
:00:12. > :00:15.Football is a global obsession. The star players of the sport, the
:00:15. > :00:20.likes of Messi, Rooney and Ronaldo, reap vast rewards and worldwide
:00:20. > :00:24.adulation. But there's a sense of something rotten in the people's
:00:24. > :00:34.game. A sport worth billions of dollars has fallen prey to match
:00:34. > :00:35.
:00:35. > :00:38.fixing, cheating and bouts of shameful behaviour. My guest is
:00:38. > :00:42.Louis Saha, a French international striker, currently with Spurs in
:00:42. > :00:52.the English Premier League. His is the view from inside the football
:00:52. > :01:16.
:01:16. > :01:20.factory - has the joy been taken Louis Saha, welcome to HARDtalk.
:01:20. > :01:24.You have just done something very unusual for a top professional
:01:24. > :01:29.footballer. You have decided to speak openly and frankly about the
:01:29. > :01:34.state of the game and the state of societies in which you have played
:01:34. > :01:44.the game. Why have you done that? wanted to express it a bit
:01:44. > :01:54.
:01:54. > :02:00.differently. I wanted to give... It is a way to describe a Premiership
:02:00. > :02:02.player. De why take it from that that you think the game and the
:02:02. > :02:11.life of the Professional Footballers' is somehow
:02:11. > :02:21.misrepresented? Not all the time. People may forget that we are
:02:21. > :02:24.
:02:24. > :02:31.normal human beings. Show how it is for people who don't know how it is
:02:31. > :02:37.really. One thing that really strikes me is that the modern,
:02:37. > :02:46.professional footballer, the elite, is surrounded by people. You have
:02:46. > :02:52.control from the manager, an agent, press, minders, PR people. You have
:02:52. > :03:01.broken out of that. You came here on the Tube, the Underground.
:03:01. > :03:07.is part of it. You have to accept it. If you find a way to control it,
:03:07. > :03:12.the main thing is to play football at the maximum is. When you get
:03:12. > :03:21.that and the right people around you, you will perform. It is not
:03:21. > :03:25.easy. Many people will say sometimes we are a bit cold and
:03:25. > :03:33.arrogant. I want to explain how it is, maybe we're trying to protect
:03:33. > :03:37.ourselves. Let me take you back. You were raised in the suburbs of
:03:37. > :03:42.Paris, not a particularly easy place for a child, particularly a
:03:42. > :03:48.black child. Your parents came to France from the Caribbean. Did you
:03:48. > :03:58.see football as some sort of passport out, a means of escape?
:03:58. > :04:04.
:04:04. > :04:11.Not, not at the start. I was really in a -- innocent. It is reported so
:04:11. > :04:15.many times in the press, on television, youngsters do not see
:04:15. > :04:25.it the way I used to. It is a bit harder for them to realise that it
:04:25. > :04:29.
:04:29. > :04:32.is a game, for enjoyment. I know that your dad was an influence to
:04:32. > :04:39.go to the soccer academy, and joined the French league. It is
:04:39. > :04:44.very striking that when you left Metz you spent the vast majority of
:04:44. > :04:50.your time in England. Obviously the English Premier League has more
:04:50. > :04:57.money but I wonder, is it easier to be a black professional footballer
:04:57. > :05:07.in England and France? I think in a way they raised more space to
:05:07. > :05:07.
:05:08. > :05:17.express yourself freely, in a way, as a sportsman. -- there is more
:05:18. > :05:23.
:05:23. > :05:33.space. Secondly, the way success is spread. As a black man I felt very
:05:33. > :05:35.
:05:35. > :05:40.comfortable to raise my children in England. When I put my feet in that
:05:40. > :05:44.land I thought it was brilliant and never regret it. I want to talk
:05:44. > :05:49.about the race question because you have written powerfully about it.
:05:49. > :05:54.There is no question that in France, race and football have a quite
:05:54. > :06:01.complicated relationship. In 1998 the French team that won the World
:06:01. > :06:05.Cup was famous for being multi- coloured. It was all of the colours
:06:05. > :06:12.of France but since then there have been a number of the incidents that
:06:12. > :06:20.have raised questions about racism in French football. D C it? Yes I
:06:20. > :06:30.do. BT's something reported, something hiding in society. -- it
:06:30. > :06:32.
:06:32. > :06:39.is something. What went wrong afterwards, do you think? After
:06:39. > :06:49.1998? It was an excuse for society to say they have real problem was
:06:49. > :06:53.
:06:53. > :06:59.solved but it was not. -- that every problem. It didn't change
:06:59. > :07:04.anything economically and attitudes inside the authorities for the
:07:04. > :07:07.French Football Federation. Last week we had the leak of a top
:07:07. > :07:12.discussion in the French federation where they appeared to be at least
:07:12. > :07:17.kicking around the idea of putting a quota on the number of non-white
:07:17. > :07:23.young children who would be put into the elite football academy. I
:07:23. > :07:33.would wonder how they play LIQ felt when you read that. It was
:07:33. > :07:33.
:07:33. > :07:39.disturbing. I could not believe it. At the same time, if you try to
:07:39. > :07:49.look back at 4-4, the French Football Federation and how it
:07:49. > :07:51.
:07:51. > :07:55.succeeds, most of the time it is because of immigrant players. As a
:07:55. > :08:02.French player, an international player, I just needed an
:08:02. > :08:10.explanation and when I get it, cos when I got it I was really
:08:10. > :08:15.surprised. If we look at the politics of your country, the far
:08:15. > :08:20.right National Front, led by Marine Le Pen, scored very well in the
:08:20. > :08:26.recent election. You now live in England. I wonder when you look at
:08:26. > :08:32.your family, your kids, whether you have the desire to live in a France
:08:32. > :08:40.where the National Front can poll 18% of the vote. That is something
:08:40. > :08:50.really unpleasant. You feel it is, something like 6-7 million people
:08:50. > :09:01.
:09:01. > :09:11.thinking that way. Metres a mix of people who do not agree on certain
:09:11. > :09:20.points. -- it is a mix. Do you think you will go back? Yes, why
:09:20. > :09:30.not? It is a beautiful country. Sacrifices have to be made by parts
:09:30. > :09:30.
:09:30. > :09:35.of the population. Let me ask you about race in England was that you
:09:35. > :09:40.have seen in your professional game a series of controversies. We have
:09:40. > :09:50.John Terry facing a criminal trial, a lead to use of racist language
:09:50. > :09:53.
:09:53. > :09:59.towards an opponent. He denies that. We also have the Luis Suarez affair.
:09:59. > :10:09.Do you believe there is serious racism in a Premier League football
:10:09. > :10:10.
:10:11. > :10:15.today? I doubt it, I do not think so. This is a rising from two very
:10:15. > :10:22.high profile players, that is why when you talk about Manchester
:10:22. > :10:32.United, Chelsea and the captain, I do not think so. For me as a player,
:10:32. > :10:36.who has been playing abroad, I see England as an example. Maybe in the
:10:36. > :10:41.lead it has to be controlled. you felt racism in your own career
:10:41. > :10:47.in England? It has been all right, I think everything is well
:10:47. > :10:53.controlled. The fans sometimes use any weapon they can to get at
:10:53. > :10:59.players. I am a imagining they have probably used to race to get at you.
:10:59. > :11:07.For some reason I have been lucky, I don't know. Only on Twitter, it
:11:07. > :11:17.has been reported that no, I think I have been lucky. Let me ask you
:11:17. > :11:20.
:11:20. > :11:29.how you have coped with to the unreality. By the age of 20 you had
:11:29. > :11:39.a Porsche and it did not stop, the money kept on coming. How do you
:11:39. > :11:39.
:11:39. > :11:49.believe players cope with that - well or badly? It is difficult.
:11:49. > :11:51.
:11:51. > :11:58.That is why I tried to explain it in the book. It is difficult. At 25,
:11:58. > :12:01.30, there is big money for some people at that age. You can imagine
:12:01. > :12:07.people winning the National Lottery and trying to cope with that. It is
:12:07. > :12:17.difficult. We are young and have to deal with the fame and stuff like
:12:17. > :12:17.
:12:17. > :12:27.this and it is not easy. You have talked a lot about what it does to
:12:27. > :12:30.
:12:30. > :12:34.football's relationships with women and it is depressing. --
:12:34. > :12:44.footballers and their relationships. Some of them prefer to use escorts
:12:44. > :12:45.
:12:45. > :12:50.for sex. Yes, 20-year-olds, it is difficult. It is hard because the
:12:50. > :12:55.exposure is immense. Do you think it has damaged your view of women?
:12:55. > :13:05.You have talked about how women tried to, to use your words, tried
:13:05. > :13:06.
:13:06. > :13:16.to and trap men. So many women seem to have lost self-respect, you said.
:13:16. > :13:16.
:13:16. > :13:22.I do not think so. It is really obvious that we are being targeted.
:13:22. > :13:28.I am not saying all women are like this. Definitely not. It is a
:13:28. > :13:31.different world now. Some women might think that you are putting
:13:31. > :13:38.blame on women and should be looking at the responsibility of
:13:38. > :13:48.the men. Yes, the responsibility, the world of football has made that
:13:48. > :13:49.
:13:49. > :13:59.happen. It is an issue of being, the world is dominated by money.
:13:59. > :14:09.Money and sex to be honest. could be for Walters, doctors,
:14:09. > :14:10.
:14:10. > :14:14.prisoners. -- football players. fame of football is different and
:14:14. > :14:20.with respect I think the public care more about football players
:14:20. > :14:24.than doctors. We saw the headline recently in the Daily Mirror which
:14:24. > :14:33.described football players as overplayed, either pampered and
:14:33. > :14:37.sons. Something has gone really wrong, hasn't it? The media pushing
:14:37. > :14:42.things to the age. They are basing that on a host of stories based on
:14:42. > :14:52.pretty disgraceful sexual activity of football players, some of which
:14:52. > :14:56.
:14:56. > :14:59.June it is in the a fine line between the cliche of a
:14:59. > :15:06.footballer's and by some are very high profile players. It does not
:15:06. > :15:12.mean the majority of the players are like these. And you talk about
:15:12. > :15:17.it in the dressing room with other top players? Are they as aware as
:15:17. > :15:22.you of the traps of falling into this life star? Yes. But it is
:15:22. > :15:28.difficult to manage it. As I said, we are normal people and we make
:15:28. > :15:34.mistakes. Anyone with a good heart and good intentions can make
:15:34. > :15:38.mistakes. What strikes me about you is you seem to have a strong
:15:38. > :15:45.relationship with your wife. The have been with your wife for 13
:15:45. > :15:49.years. He had three kids. She has also talked about what it is like
:15:49. > :15:54.being married to a top football professional. She does not make it
:15:54. > :16:02.sound easy. You say they used see how doubt can invade and suffocate
:16:02. > :16:05.the partner of a top footballer. Is that an indication that you and she
:16:05. > :16:12.have had to work through some problems because of the world you
:16:12. > :16:22.have lived in? Exactly. I think it is normal. We are no different to
:16:22. > :16:22.
:16:22. > :16:29.any couple. And we have our issues and problems. Where it becomes
:16:29. > :16:32.extreme, it is because of the famed. Because I am famous, in her
:16:32. > :16:38.imagination are will get more temptation so there is something we
:16:38. > :16:45.have to fight a daily. As a couple. I do not think that I am any
:16:45. > :16:50.different as any other man but the thing is that that it is I try to
:16:50. > :16:55.be very honest in the book and tried to deal with any problems
:16:55. > :17:00.like any other man. One final thought about sex and football - a
:17:00. > :17:05.different set of issues - they have never been a top professional
:17:05. > :17:14.footballer, certainly not in the UK, who has come out and declared he is
:17:14. > :17:17.gay - a homosexual. The mass -- they must be some. Do you think it
:17:17. > :17:25.is possible that a top professional footballer could come out and keep
:17:25. > :17:32.his career? As I said in the book, when you think about it, it could
:17:32. > :17:36.be hard. I really think it could be difficult and because the
:17:36. > :17:42.relationship with their team-mates so much but because of the
:17:42. > :17:50.opposition tried to find a way to disturb his concentration. It could
:17:50. > :17:59.be really, really hard. I cannot imagine football being a place to
:17:59. > :18:05.do that. It is a sick world, in a way? I started to write that showed
:18:05. > :18:12.there and archaic thought, why is a football so slow in this issue. No-
:18:12. > :18:16.one knew at the time - in the population there is one out of ten
:18:16. > :18:22.so you can imagine that the same numbers apply in football. Why has
:18:22. > :18:26.it never come out? I tried to raise that problem. Let's talk to a
:18:26. > :18:32.subject which has been around the conversation but have not been
:18:32. > :18:37.explicit - money. There are footballers earning $300,000 a week
:18:37. > :18:44.and a little bit more. You have an and lot of money. Are you free to
:18:44. > :18:53.tell me what your salary is a? cannot think it is relevant to
:18:53. > :19:01.anyone. It is personal. As an example, I have enough money to buy
:19:01. > :19:06.the things I dream of - I am lucky as a man to do that. No do you ever
:19:06. > :19:11.stop to think that the amount of money I have been paid for people
:19:11. > :19:18.like Ronaldo and Messi, is ridiculous. We want to be paid well
:19:18. > :19:28.but we do not need to literally have $15 million per year or more?
:19:28. > :19:32.I understand your point that you try to compare any job or any
:19:32. > :19:37.situation, it is unfair to say that a footballer does not deserve it.
:19:37. > :19:41.At it may create a new sense of cynicism from fans about
:19:41. > :19:46.footballers. There you go, kissing the badge, declaring undying
:19:46. > :19:54.loyalty to the team you have just joined at... It is a cliche. But it
:19:54. > :19:59.is what footballers do. ICI at - I am a big football fan. You are
:19:59. > :20:05.putting that example as a cliche. Everyone is the same. We are not
:20:05. > :20:10.all winning that kind of money. It is not everyone. Those struggling
:20:10. > :20:17.with a salary... Outside the Premier League but the average
:20:17. > :20:21.salary is well over �20,000 a week in the Premier League. When players
:20:22. > :20:25.seem to be driven by money, fans get cynical about these declaration
:20:26. > :20:30.of loyalty to the club because it does not ultimately seem to mean
:20:30. > :20:35.anything. The player will leave if the age and finds him a better deal.
:20:35. > :20:40.It is true but in the same time we're in business. Sometimes you'll
:20:40. > :20:48.see that if a player this not perform, he will be put out of the
:20:48. > :20:53.side and not paid because he will be playing in another team so if
:20:53. > :20:58.you're not playing well, you are out. I wonder whether you think
:20:58. > :21:03.money could be ruining the game in the long run. It means, look at
:21:03. > :21:11.Manchester City, the guys with the deepest pockets, the owners have
:21:11. > :21:16.the most money can pretty much these days by success? Is it wrong?
:21:16. > :21:21.Well, it will undermine the sport if fans believe the only team who
:21:21. > :21:30.have a chance of winning hearts in teams with the richest owners.
:21:30. > :21:38.may not be nice to here but that is the sport we are in. You can
:21:38. > :21:45.express it how you want but if you want the best players you need the
:21:45. > :21:48.money. Another thing about money, it does seem to be linked to
:21:48. > :21:53.cheating amongst players. The desire to get a competitive
:21:53. > :21:57.advantage by diving, faking it for a penalty or indeed, faking injury
:21:57. > :22:05.to get an opponent sent off - you believe it is becoming worst --
:22:06. > :22:12.worse? I do not think so. Have you done it? It happens in the emotions
:22:12. > :22:18.of the game. Have you done it? could happen. It easily happens
:22:18. > :22:25.because he had been pushed and you are at a disadvantage and you could
:22:25. > :22:29.easily, in your mind, you have a situation and I do not think that
:22:29. > :22:36.even an Irish player would have done that - if you think of a teary
:22:36. > :22:40.Henri. What you do a talking about the goal he scored against our land.
:22:40. > :22:45.In SAN are run out of the World Cup, a go of France into the World Cup
:22:45. > :22:52.final. It outraged many football fans and your attitude is that is
:22:52. > :22:56.the game? That is part of the game. The intensity of the game is so
:22:56. > :23:02.quick, the referee cannot see everything. If you try to avoid
:23:02. > :23:06.that situation, put technology in and you will not have any more
:23:06. > :23:10.issues on the Sunday papers. As we talk about these things, the
:23:10. > :23:15.difficult areas for professional footballers - I wonder if in your
:23:15. > :23:21.career, when you look at it as a whole, having lost some of the joy
:23:21. > :23:31.they used to have played football? Not the joy but the innocence. The
:23:31. > :23:35.eye of the keyed. As I said before, I think the player is not fragile.
:23:35. > :23:39.He's just tougher. You are in a place we have to protect yourself
:23:39. > :23:45.so it could be money, I could be an agent, I could be a woman, I could
:23:45. > :23:53.be anything so I put the book together to make people be aware of
:23:53. > :23:58.that. It is a world which is difficult. We are in a discussion
:23:58. > :24:04.right now... The innocence is gone but do you still love the game?
:24:04. > :24:08.Very much. I do not why some people think they will love the game more
:24:08. > :24:14.than a football player. I do not think the game will be love more
:24:14. > :24:24.than by a football player. I was maybe seven and I loved the game