:00:10. > :00:14.their gas fields. Now it is time for HARDtalk.
:00:14. > :00:18.Iron Maiden is one of the most successful heavy metal bands ever.
:00:18. > :00:28.They have sold more than 80 million albums and a renowned for their
:00:28. > :00:33.live shows, tickets which now sell faster than at any time. My guest
:00:33. > :00:38.today is their lead singer, Bruce Dickinson, the only member who has
:00:38. > :00:42.lopped off his long hair. When he is not on stage in front of
:00:42. > :00:48.thousands he can be found in a cockpit. He is a commercial pilot
:00:48. > :00:52.who has set up his own aviation business. How can you mix the hard
:00:52. > :01:02.rock lifestyle of a metal head with the clean-living required of a
:01:02. > :01:23.
:01:23. > :01:28.Bruce Dickinson, welcome to HARDtalk. You seem to have
:01:28. > :01:34.something of a double life. Which one is it that feels like more of a
:01:34. > :01:42.front? The heavy metal lead singer or the pilot and entrepreneur?
:01:42. > :01:49.is strange because they both are, really. In a sense, yes because
:01:49. > :01:57.when you are performing on stage to all those people you are performing
:01:57. > :02:02.and I liken it to blowing up an enormous bubble, balloon. As you
:02:02. > :02:07.start off in small clubs and things like that it seems intimidating and
:02:07. > :02:13.then you get two theatres and that seems intimidating and then
:02:13. > :02:23.basketball arenas and then you get used to work. What is happening is
:02:23. > :02:24.
:02:24. > :02:28.your awareness of how far your reach can go in terms of touching,
:02:28. > :02:34.communicating, it is like blowing up a balloon and filling the space.
:02:34. > :02:44.To that extent it is a front, it has to be. You couldn't possibly
:02:44. > :02:44.
:02:44. > :02:54.come off stage after being in a fund of 50,000 people and the like
:02:54. > :02:56.
:02:56. > :03:05.that, in that state. -- in front of. Some people have gone bonkers.
:03:05. > :03:14.about the pilot? Lots of people are nervous flyers are so Bayview
:03:14. > :03:18.pilots as having certain characteristics. -- so they view.
:03:18. > :03:26.Pilots are fallible and just as prone to human weakness as
:03:26. > :03:33.everybody else. I always think that the image people have of perfection
:03:33. > :03:39.and things like that in pilots, which is what they want to believe,
:03:40. > :03:43.it is not strictly correct at all. When people on your aeroplanes had
:03:43. > :03:51.heard that the pilot is Bruce Dickinson, what reaction have you
:03:51. > :04:01.had? That is the worrying thing. There was a recent case with the
:04:01. > :04:02.
:04:02. > :04:05.pressure -- depressurisation. The oxygen masks fell down and most
:04:05. > :04:10.people missed the information about pulling it down and they forgot how
:04:11. > :04:15.the pilot was and what the weather was. But Bruce Dickinson is quite
:04:15. > :04:20.well known and you are well known as a pilot. Had you had people try
:04:20. > :04:25.to get into the cockpit or have you had people nervous? No, I have
:04:25. > :04:32.never had anyone nervous. I have thrown people off because of being
:04:32. > :04:39.drunk. Have you ever been recognised? Yes. It is very strange.
:04:39. > :04:48.We used to operate a lot going to Sierra Leone and I was further
:04:48. > :04:53.flying there, over the course of about eight years. -- was forever.
:04:53. > :05:03.I met a guy who was a classmate at school with me he was going there
:05:03. > :05:05.
:05:05. > :05:13.and he was a vicar. He might have been Kenyan, Nigerian, I think,
:05:13. > :05:23.originally. He had a tremendously long name and I remember it to this
:05:23. > :05:23.
:05:23. > :05:33.day. It was a fantastic name. When somebody passed me the information
:05:33. > :05:37.
:05:37. > :05:42.and said he is on the flight, can he have a quick word? I have had
:05:42. > :05:48.about 3-4 guys who went to school with me and I have learned them on
:05:48. > :05:53.holiday. People who know you have these life on stage, a phenomenal
:05:53. > :06:02.life for 30 years. I want to play a quick to remind people what you do
:06:03. > :06:12.on stage. This is a club, a song that you wrote.
:06:13. > :06:20.
:06:20. > :06:29.# It is getting close to midnight. # Lipstick on Your Lennon. -- linen.
:06:29. > :06:38.# You had better know that I am the one.
:06:38. > :06:47.# Fray -- Bring Your daughter to the slaughter. You have changed a
:06:47. > :06:55.bit since then. Back in the day you have a beard and look like a
:06:55. > :07:01.misplaced version of Jesus but not any more. It is grey. I have to
:07:01. > :07:11.shave on a regular basis. He did not have to cut your hair, D du?
:07:11. > :07:17.
:07:17. > :07:25.ICloud Iron Maiden for about five years. -- I quit. I embarked on a
:07:25. > :07:31.solo career which initially had variable success and towards the
:07:31. > :07:41.end, got quite satisfactory. I had a very young band with me, their
:07:41. > :07:44.
:07:44. > :07:49.early 20s, and I recall a publicity shot we did. I was looking at it
:07:49. > :07:57.thinking it was a great shot and I thought, who is that old geezer in
:07:57. > :08:06.the middle? In his knee. It doesn't look quite right. I decided to have
:08:06. > :08:12.a bit of a chop. Not as short as it is now. Somebody said you look ten
:08:12. > :08:19.years younger. I said you may be right. The other thing, which I
:08:19. > :08:24.found curious and disappointing, people treated me in an entirely
:08:25. > :08:30.different manner. Strangers, people like that, they would smile at me
:08:30. > :08:34.more. When you walk around a supermarket I realised that before,
:08:34. > :08:40.people were looking at me as if I was about to steal something and
:08:40. > :08:44.now they didn't. It was a curious and disappointing discovery about
:08:44. > :08:51.human nature and the assumptions people make. It comes back to your
:08:51. > :08:54.earlier questioned about the front. Assumptions people make. They
:08:54. > :08:58.assume that entrepreneurs and businessmen are going to be
:08:58. > :09:06.honourable people and in fact, you only have to read newspapers to
:09:06. > :09:11.realise that just because you are wearing a suit and a tie does not
:09:11. > :09:21.mean you are honourable. phenomenal success that Iron Maiden
:09:21. > :09:21.
:09:21. > :09:27.has had, 80 million plus albums, and the ban and the band it is without
:09:27. > :09:32.help from the mainstream media. Probably it has actually been of
:09:32. > :09:38.assistance, not having help some of the mainstream media, certainly in
:09:38. > :09:47.terms of the longevity of our career. The mainstream media, as in
:09:47. > :09:53.Simon Cowell's show and that sort of stuff, it assimilates whatever
:09:53. > :10:00.talent is available and then tries to swallow it and regurgitate it in
:10:00. > :10:06.its own image. The media likes to own things and it likes to play God.
:10:06. > :10:12.It builds things up and knocks them down, create drama. In a way that
:10:12. > :10:16.fans do not want to do. They want to follow a story. A band does have
:10:16. > :10:22.peaks and troughs, and it makes good albums, some albums not as
:10:22. > :10:27.good as before. Like a football team, if you're a fan of Chelsea,
:10:27. > :10:37.you are a fan of Chelsea. Win or lose, you are still a fan of the
:10:37. > :10:43.
:10:43. > :10:48.football teams. Is that true of all media? Cat might we have three
:10:48. > :10:57.generations coming to see us in the UK but sometimes we might get a
:10:57. > :11:03.nice ride from the press. A couple of years ago they said we were
:11:03. > :11:13.national treasures. You won a Brit Award. Yes, and that is nice, that
:11:13. > :11:13.
:11:13. > :11:22.is great. We won another award that meant more to me because it was
:11:22. > :11:29.genuinely from our peers, if you like. The Brit Award, again, it was
:11:29. > :11:39.voted for by the people. One of the last times that was allowed to
:11:39. > :11:42.
:11:42. > :11:50.happen. What was it down to, the earlier Sixers? -- success. Down to
:11:50. > :11:57.touring? You survived the 1980s and were pretty clean living as a band.
:11:57. > :12:06.You are about as clean living as a bunch of 25-year-olds let loose in
:12:06. > :12:16.America with as much beer as he and have a great time the way a
:12:16. > :12:17.
:12:17. > :12:27.sport group are going to. It is what comes as your primary focus
:12:27. > :12:27.
:12:27. > :12:34.and we would never let the show, what we were doing suffer as a
:12:34. > :12:44.result of the extra-curricular activity. That is why we were there.
:12:44. > :12:45.
:12:45. > :12:48.I used to read articles when I was a lad and you would read about
:12:48. > :12:58.contemporary rock stars and they would say the reason I got involved
:12:58. > :13:02.in rock'n'roll was so I could get laid. That is a silly reason to get
:13:02. > :13:07.involved, I got involved because I wanted to sing and create stories
:13:08. > :13:14.in people's heads, fantasies and explore that. That is why I am
:13:14. > :13:22.still doing it. That and the fact that I am grateful for still being
:13:22. > :13:28.here with all my marbles in my head. The BBC has a programme which is
:13:28. > :13:33.pleasure pleasure in turning it down. I
:13:33. > :13:43.think it is demeaning. When I was a kid there was a show called
:13:43. > :13:43.
:13:43. > :13:48.Opportunity knocks. It was cheesy and the presenter would talk about
:13:48. > :13:54.a scene in Bulphan. To me it is exactly the same. If people have
:13:54. > :14:04.got something to say they should say it, do it and be it. Stop
:14:04. > :14:06.
:14:07. > :14:11.frames. You cannot tell me that the people who select the people, the
:14:11. > :14:21.ridiculith ridiculous names, will.i.am, who is
:14:21. > :14:24.
:14:24. > :14:28.that? You cannot say they don't industry. I know he is. Have you
:14:28. > :14:35.ever heard somebody from one of those shows and thought, actually,
:14:35. > :14:45.he is OK? Have you listened to ballads? Yes, the odd Joni Mitchell
:14:45. > :14:46.
:14:46. > :14:52.song or something. What do you listen to? BBC Radio 4. Speech?
:14:52. > :14:57.Speech, documentaries. I tried to avoid this and into music and
:14:57. > :15:04.Messiah really, really consciously want to listen to it. And listen to
:15:04. > :15:11.it all the time. I prefer to write the think it up or creatives. Every
:15:11. > :15:18.now and again, you hear something and you think, that is nice, who is
:15:18. > :15:23.that? I have to ask my kids. does sound order. Euro music-lover,
:15:23. > :15:30.presumably. But you don't listen to music except for what you create
:15:30. > :15:36.yourself. By and large. But having created it, I don't listen to it
:15:36. > :15:44.subsequently. But too deeply it. You move on and get new fence who
:15:44. > :15:47.are hooked on your new albums. You do go back and played the old songs.
:15:47. > :15:52.Yes, we're having great fun rediscovering some of the stuff
:15:52. > :15:58.that we did on one of the recent tours. We are going to do it in the
:15:58. > :16:06.States. Do you ever feel a need to change? When you look at what is on
:16:06. > :16:13.YouTube now, or what the publicity that goes on, it has hardly changed
:16:13. > :16:18.in 30 years. You have still but you must cut. They rub the cartoon
:16:18. > :16:22.drawings. Stuff you would see on teenage posters. You were in your
:16:22. > :16:31.50s. De you'll have a look at it and think, maybe we should update
:16:31. > :16:40.it. It is a mature image. Why? Inside this 53-year-old exterior,
:16:41. > :16:46.is... A 17-year-old. The middle- aged, slightly younger. That is the
:16:46. > :16:56.core of why you do this. When you're a kid, and you experience
:16:56. > :17:03.something. Whatever it is that makes you feel, wow, walking on air.
:17:03. > :17:09.The first song you right. The first experience. You have to reinvent
:17:09. > :17:15.that and gardens against what I can describe as the cynicism of the
:17:15. > :17:21.world. -- guard them against. The world eats people and destroyed his
:17:21. > :17:29.hopes and dreams. It is those things that people caught toll
:17:29. > :17:36.bridge. Those of the things that motivate us. It keeps a creativity.
:17:36. > :17:43.They lose it at their peril. We have seen people that have lost it.
:17:43. > :17:46.It is really sad. I listen to Radio 4 and it's not because I hit the
:17:46. > :17:51.western world of music, it's just that I have got the confidence that
:17:51. > :17:57.I have this little thing inside me. If I see think this and say, love
:17:57. > :18:02.that, I know what is real. The reality is the emotion. And you now
:18:02. > :18:06.can be heard on Radio 4 because of your other love, which is flying.
:18:06. > :18:15.You have said you get as much of a buzz out of flying as you do have a
:18:15. > :18:19.performance. It comes down to that feeling. Recall that the light ball
:18:19. > :18:24.perfect. Great take it all back to trialled it. Somebody somewhere in
:18:24. > :18:30.everybody's life has said something, done something, inspired somebody
:18:30. > :18:37.to do something, or been inspired. And they have praised them. And
:18:37. > :18:45.that has made them feel amazing. Cling on to that feeling, that
:18:45. > :18:49.curiosity. When I had my first experience flying an aeroplane,
:18:49. > :18:58.actually falling it as opposed to thinking about it or trying to
:18:58. > :19:02.understand it, it was overwhelming. It was amazing. You are putting �1
:19:02. > :19:07.million of foreign money into Cardiff Aviation, which aside from
:19:07. > :19:16.doing maintenance will be training other pilots. Absolutely. The whole
:19:16. > :19:20.point of the project is it's a multi-faceted Organisation. It's
:19:20. > :19:28.not just about spanners and airplanes. It's about training
:19:28. > :19:33.pilots. It is about recalling components. Possibly -- overhauling
:19:33. > :19:38.component. Possibly starting airline operations as well. The
:19:39. > :19:45.facility can encompass all of those things. But it is the heretical at
:19:45. > :19:53.the moment. You'll have to get the contract. We get the keys in July.
:19:53. > :19:59.Are you able to attract business? am absolutely confident. I was off
:19:59. > :20:05.attracting some business this morning. Successfully? Well yes,
:20:05. > :20:10.one does hope so. You hope to create 1,500 jobs in 18 months.
:20:10. > :20:15.What it said was, that is at the top end of expectations after three
:20:15. > :20:19.or four years. What do said was Eve in 18 months we haven't created a
:20:19. > :20:26.couple of hundred jobs, we will probably be out of business. A
:20:26. > :20:35.couple of hundred jobs is what is going to be required. It is what
:20:35. > :20:43.People who are going to create jobs. Would it be easier if the
:20:43. > :20:49.regulations on business were reduced? Of course it would. I
:20:49. > :20:58.think that this is a time at which people need to really need to think
:20:58. > :21:02.outside the box. Governments have to take really courageous actions.
:21:02. > :21:10.If you look at the recent report that came out about the tax system.
:21:11. > :21:18.I am not a tax expert. My tax bill makes my eyes water. Now, if I knew
:21:18. > :21:22.where that money was going, I wouldn't be whingeing about it. But
:21:22. > :21:28.actually, I would rather, then give that money to the government, I
:21:28. > :21:32.would rather say, if you're going to tax me, fantastic - I will spend
:21:32. > :21:40.that money, not on me, but doing stuff that I want to do to create
:21:40. > :21:46.jobs. Waikato do that? If you could do that, I think a lot of people in
:21:47. > :21:51.business would start businesses. It takes the risk arrest. If you are
:21:51. > :21:56.going to lose the money anyway, and you have always wanted to start a
:21:56. > :22:01.corner shop or something, what the government give you the money to do
:22:01. > :22:07.that rather than put it into the plaque hall which is the government
:22:07. > :22:16.offers. Would you describe yourself as a conservative and a Euro-
:22:16. > :22:21.sceptic? Absolutely. Your grandfather was a miner. Yes, I was
:22:21. > :22:26.born in the front room upstairs, I went to the local pit school.
:22:26. > :22:35.would he feel about that? He didn't have a very high opinion of Arthur
:22:35. > :22:42.Scargill. His opinion? He was the miners' leader. Yes, and he thought
:22:42. > :22:50.he was in it for himself. Sadly, the quote unquote alternative
:22:50. > :22:57.miners' union also appeared to be in it for themselves because of the
:22:57. > :23:02.absolute scandal, my grandfather died of black young -- black wrong.
:23:02. > :23:10.You go into this strange mix that some people say, this Iron Maiden
:23:10. > :23:20.lead singer who is a Conservative Euro-sceptic. Yes, but nobody
:23:20. > :23:20.
:23:21. > :23:24.should think that people are just caricatures. I think that munched
:23:24. > :23:30.working-class people are up by their nature conservative. They are
:23:30. > :23:35.by their very nature conservative. They don't believe in... They rose
:23:35. > :23:41.agree to line in one of my favourite films. Blast off. A
:23:41. > :23:48.fantastic film. It didn't... Theories and great long. It
:23:49. > :23:53.recruits that Hoare mining by up. At the end, the Korea comes up and
:23:53. > :24:03.they have won the Cup. The Gurkhas, you will be giving us the cup back
:24:03. > :24:03.
:24:03. > :24:09.now, when the? Don't be daft, he says. Common sense. Tell me, if
:24:09. > :24:14.there is a campaign that you be knighted. What? There is an online
:24:14. > :24:18.petition. If you were so Bruce Dickinson, would it be the cat --
:24:18. > :24:28.Iron Maiden lead singer or the businessman that would been at it?
:24:28. > :24:32.