:00:15. > :00:20.hours. For more, go to our website. Now it is time for HARDtalk.
:00:20. > :00:24.Nigeria is a giant on the African stage. In terms of prosperity, it's
:00:24. > :00:28.never fulfil the expectations of its people. My guest today is a
:00:28. > :00:33.musician and political activist, Femi Kuti, son of the late,
:00:33. > :00:36.legendary Nigerian musician Fela Kuti. He is a constant thorn in the
:00:36. > :00:41.side of the authorities and uses his songs to criticise government
:00:41. > :00:45.and speak up on behalf of the poor and dispossessed. But with
:00:45. > :00:55.fantastic rate of growth in Nigeria and elsewhere in Africa, it is Femi
:00:55. > :01:07.
:01:07. > :01:12.Kuti being overly pessimistic about Nigeria's prospects? Femi Kuti,
:01:12. > :01:18.welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. have to ask you - as the son of
:01:18. > :01:27.Fela Kuti, was it a blessing as well as a curse to be your father's
:01:27. > :01:34.son? I would never see it as a curse. It's like I have to live up
:01:34. > :01:44.to the heritage of his name so I know I have to work very hard, so
:01:44. > :01:49.it's never been a curse, really. For it to be a curse, I think... I
:01:49. > :01:55.didn't feel bad because he was my father. But as his eldest son, you
:01:55. > :01:58.were, in a sense, his heir, musically as well as politically. I
:01:58. > :02:05.mean, didn't you feel you were in his shadow a lot of the time?
:02:05. > :02:09.don't feel a lot of pressure because everywhere I went people
:02:09. > :02:14.were like "are you going to be like your father? When will you be like
:02:14. > :02:24.your father?" that gave me a lot of pressure when I was a kid. It
:02:24. > :02:24.
:02:24. > :02:28.scared me. It was such a very beady -- very big person in front of me I
:02:28. > :02:32.never felt I could live up to this heritage so it scared me.
:02:32. > :02:41.perform a similar style of Afrobeat music, like a father, which is a
:02:41. > :02:45.blend of jazz, funk and African music. In 1987 you left your
:02:45. > :02:50.father's band to create your own band. He was apparently so angry
:02:50. > :02:54.with you he didn't speak to you for six years. This was in 1986 and he
:02:54. > :03:03.didn't speak to me for six years. How did that make you feel? Straw
:03:03. > :03:09.longer. Determined. -- stronger. I knew how to feel my pain, I knew
:03:09. > :03:13.how to live my life. It was like it was producing a replica of himself
:03:13. > :03:18.and I was living his life for him and I didn't feel comfortable. I
:03:18. > :03:23.wanted to be my own man. Is that what you mean by you feeling
:03:23. > :03:29.scared... No, this was different. As a kid, being scared - I knew he
:03:29. > :03:34.was such - he was so strong and so popular and everybody would say
:03:34. > :03:41."when are you going to be like your father?" and I couldn't play at
:03:41. > :03:51.this time, I couldn't find my life in this chaos. When I separated
:03:51. > :03:54.
:03:54. > :03:57.from his band it was 1984 and I went to a different band. In two
:03:57. > :04:01.years I had grown and I knew I would get married - I wanted kids
:04:01. > :04:07.of my own and I knew I couldn't live under his roof, I wanted my
:04:07. > :04:13.own life. He was quite a force, wasn't he? He married 27 of his
:04:13. > :04:17.backers and singers. He was a really dynamic force in both
:04:17. > :04:22.Nigeria, Africa and the international stage. He died in
:04:22. > :04:28.1997 from an AIDS-related illness. My understanding is that you and
:04:28. > :04:34.other members of the family didn't want this revealed. Why? No - we
:04:34. > :04:39.didn't want it revealed the way it was revealed, because he was still
:04:39. > :04:44.alive. And we felt if he was alive he had the opportunity to say "you
:04:44. > :04:47.have no right". What if he didn't die? What if the drugs had worked?
:04:47. > :04:51.It was wrong of the family to take it upon themselves to announce what
:04:51. > :04:56.was wrong with him. We felt that when he was alive we should give
:04:56. > :05:01.him the opportunity to reveal it himself. And when he died he spoke
:05:01. > :05:05.openly about it? Yes. When he died it was out that duty to speak. But
:05:05. > :05:10.if he was alive it was not out that duty to take his life into our
:05:10. > :05:14.hands. A few months after he died you signed a major record deal.
:05:14. > :05:18.This was my second major deal. second major deal, but one that a
:05:18. > :05:24.lot of people focus on because they felt that, in a sense, after your
:05:24. > :05:29.father died, it was a great tragedy for you. In any way - did it allow
:05:29. > :05:35.you to become your own man, musically? No, I think I already
:05:35. > :05:39.became my own man when I left his band. That decision did not please
:05:39. > :05:46.many people who saw I was breaking away too far from Afrobeat. It
:05:46. > :05:51.scared my older sister. "well, we will get into a lot of trouble".
:05:51. > :05:54.And I said - look, this is where I want to go. Everybody was moving in
:05:54. > :05:59.different directions. You had quite a few major successes, but let's
:05:59. > :06:05.get a flavour of you, Femi Kuti. This is a track from your latest
:06:05. > :06:15.album - Africa for Africa, released in 2011. I think is his you
:06:15. > :06:50.
:06:50. > :06:54.(FUNKY AFROBEAT STYLE MUSIC). very vigorous performance. That
:06:54. > :06:58.must be how you keep fit. You can clearly hear the African influence
:06:58. > :07:02.in your music still. What do you think about new Nigerian musicians
:07:02. > :07:06.who have a kind of more global, cultural approach - more American
:07:06. > :07:11.hip-hop style. You think they are losing their African roots in some
:07:11. > :07:16.way? No. I don't think so. It would be wrong for me to criticise any
:07:16. > :07:20.young musician who is trying to find his way in life. How do you
:07:20. > :07:30.criticise any form of art? In the global world we have today it is
:07:30. > :07:38.appealing to more people globally. I like these musicians. I don't see
:07:38. > :07:42.why I should be critical. People criticise me when I started to play
:07:42. > :07:45.my own style of Afrobeat, everyone was against me. Then when I had
:07:45. > :07:52.success, everyone said I was right. I don't want to criticise young
:07:53. > :07:58.people who were trying to... Find their own way? This is his style.
:07:58. > :08:06.If this is his style, we should appreciate it. But you have stuck
:08:06. > :08:14.more to that Afrobeat tradition of your father? You have to remember
:08:14. > :08:19.that Americans are related to Africa. They relate to Afrobeat.
:08:19. > :08:24.They find their roots in America as well and Americans, a lot of them,
:08:24. > :08:29.they find their roots - a lot of them were influenced by my father.
:08:29. > :08:33.Would you say it is wrong for them to steal or take from Afrobeat?
:08:33. > :08:37.will all vote influenced by your father not only musically but
:08:38. > :08:42.politically -- you were also influenced. He spoke up against the
:08:42. > :08:46.government, for instance. His mother, your grandmother, actually
:08:46. > :08:51.died when soldiers and police stormed her house and she was
:08:51. > :08:56.thrown out of a window. Yes. Your political activism is an important
:08:56. > :09:03.part of your heritage? Yeah us, because this is a life I grew to
:09:03. > :09:07.know. -- yes. I keep going back home to see this poverty and
:09:07. > :09:13.corruption in Nigeria. You still talk about corruption in Nigeria.
:09:13. > :09:21.Yes. It is so blatant - everybody talks about it. In the 1970s it was
:09:21. > :09:29.only my father. In the 80s a lot of human rights activists came along,
:09:29. > :09:34.my uncle, so many others. Now, in the 2000s, we have so many people
:09:34. > :09:38.talking openly about their grief with the government. The accept
:09:38. > :09:42.that the government is trying to do something about corruption? They
:09:42. > :09:48.pretend to be doing something because they feel international
:09:48. > :09:52.pressure on the corruption. They are only pretending? Yes. Yes, they
:09:52. > :10:02.are pretending. Let me give you an example. You tell me why you think
:10:02. > :10:03.
:10:03. > :10:06.they are pretending. Someone was jailed recently for 15 years, and
:10:06. > :10:14.it took England to come and arrest him in Dubai and bring him to
:10:14. > :10:18.justice. Well, some individual trials will be dealt with but last
:10:18. > :10:23.year, President Goodluck Jonathan sacked the head of the country's
:10:23. > :10:28.anti-Corruption Agency. In June he also sacked the MD of the National
:10:28. > :10:32.oil... I am giving you these examples. Yes, let's go to one of
:10:32. > :10:42.the latest examples. The President Goodluck Jonathan goes into office,
:10:42. > :10:49.he has already served two years when he comes into power in January
:10:50. > :10:53.1st this year, he takes away the petrol subsidy. It was at 47 lire
:10:53. > :10:58.per litre. Now he wants Nigerians who can't afford to feed their
:10:58. > :11:02.family to pay 147 Lee ruck per litre. He doesn't inform the
:11:02. > :11:06.country of this or campaign. He knows, because he has been in the
:11:06. > :11:12.government for two years, that he will remove the subsidy. Now he
:11:12. > :11:15.does this.... You were involved in those protests in January this year
:11:15. > :11:22.when the government decided to remove the fuel subsidies.
:11:22. > :11:25.Overnight, the price of fuel doubled, didn't it? Yes. After your
:11:25. > :11:28.protests, they partially restored the subsidy. The government is
:11:28. > :11:36.trying to get serious about tackling corruption in the oil
:11:36. > :11:43.sector and also elsewhere. It has been said that Eagles I think of
:11:43. > :11:53.petrol costs are billion dollars per month -- it has been said that
:11:53. > :12:01.illegal siphoning. They are at last getting to grips... Over 40 years
:12:01. > :12:08.of corruption... The can't fix it overnight, can you? In skews --
:12:08. > :12:11.excuse me the police can fix some things in hours, but when the poor
:12:11. > :12:15.people commit crimes it is easy to put them on television and show
:12:15. > :12:19.them. When young boys who have no jobs and can't feed their families,
:12:19. > :12:24.when they commit crimes it is easy to put them on television. But you
:12:24. > :12:28.know, look, the head of the IMF said, when she visited Nigeria, she
:12:28. > :12:31.said she was impressed with the energy and pace that President
:12:31. > :12:34.Goodluck Jonathan would like to transform the economy and focus on
:12:34. > :12:38.agriculture. I hope she is impressed with the way young people
:12:38. > :12:43.are losing their lives in Nigeria. The way the health system is
:12:43. > :12:48.failing. The way the poor people cannot feed their families.
:12:48. > :12:53.Education now is not available for the poor. Does she see that? Yes,
:12:53. > :12:58.but you are asking for that. Let me just say that the removal of the
:12:58. > :13:01.fuel subsidy, the government, they said the rationale was that it cost
:13:01. > :13:06.$8 billion a year for the pure subsidy and it benefits the better
:13:06. > :13:11.it off Nigerians - those who can afford to drive cars. They would
:13:11. > :13:16.like 4 billion of that money to go into infrastructure and transport.
:13:16. > :13:20.You are talking about all of these big figures that the poor people
:13:20. > :13:24.don't even understand and we are all losing count of the amount of
:13:24. > :13:30.money being lost in Nigeria. You see, I love with no electricity,
:13:30. > :13:36.excuse me, you have to understand the poor people's plight. You need
:13:36. > :13:40.to understand they can't afford good education, health, jobs. No
:13:40. > :13:45.electricity, no food. They can't feed their families at all this
:13:45. > :13:53.money - what she is saying there - she comes from a good home, she can
:13:53. > :13:57.afford it. The acts not there to her,... Know, is it fair to the
:13:57. > :14:02.poor people? What is the difference between the rich and the poor? This
:14:02. > :14:07.oil we are making in Nigeria belongs to all Nigerians. Nobody
:14:07. > :14:11.would question the fact that 87% of the oil profits in Nigeria have
:14:11. > :14:15.benefited something like 1% of the population, but we have moved on to
:14:15. > :14:18.fuel subsidies. Most of the money, we know, has been lost to
:14:18. > :14:24.corruption and hasn't benefited the vast majority of people and that
:14:24. > :14:28.the poor in Nigeria are getting poorer.... We have not finished one
:14:28. > :14:32.case and we go to the other case - the poor are getting poorer and the
:14:32. > :14:38.rich are getting richer. But then, quick, you keep saying... I am
:14:38. > :14:41.asking about the fuel subsidies and I was saying that the government
:14:41. > :14:44.says they wanted removed because they want to use the money for
:14:44. > :14:48.infrastructure, for youth employment, for maternal healthcare.
:14:49. > :14:58.Nigeria has one of the worst rates in Africa. Why did you campaign
:14:59. > :15:03.
:15:03. > :15:09.Before he removed the subsidy he should have campaigned to Nigerians.
:15:09. > :15:16.So it was the principal? You do not mind it, it was just not presented
:15:16. > :15:24.properly? When you follow the story of corruption in Nigeria can you
:15:24. > :15:29.see how they come into power and one to write-off the scandals. They
:15:29. > :15:36.keep on... Your focus is on individuals and bring people to
:15:36. > :15:42.justice. My focus is on the plight of the poor people. They cannot
:15:42. > :15:47.afford health, good education for their children and families. They
:15:47. > :15:51.have no electricity. I have lived in these conditions will my life. I
:15:51. > :15:59.have seen the corruption and the authorities get away with stealing.
:15:59. > :16:04.You have to accept that the government is trying. I do not. I
:16:04. > :16:13.do not see this development. I see them talk about it. When you see
:16:13. > :16:19.the high rates of growth in Nigeria and elsewhere in Africa, seven of
:16:19. > :16:29.the 10 fastest growing economies around Africa. Do you not think
:16:29. > :16:30.
:16:30. > :16:36.that you are reducing Africa to a single soundbite? You're really
:16:36. > :16:43.feeding into the negative stereotypes. I am not. I am a
:16:43. > :16:49.fighter. I am fighting for a better life for Africa. When I travel
:16:49. > :16:55.around as a musician again drive from England to France and Germany.
:16:55. > :17:00.I see the roads and structures. You have problems in Europe and America.
:17:00. > :17:09.I go to Africa handed -- I do not see these kind of structures.
:17:09. > :17:15.angry. Go to focus on the negative too much? Kofi Annan, the former
:17:15. > :17:23.head of the UN said Africa is an incredible place for investment.
:17:23. > :17:31.Then people are making innovation in all areas. Africa has a story
:17:31. > :17:36.that no-one can afford to ignore. You are the Afro pessimist. I am
:17:36. > :17:42.optimistic. I am fighting for a change. Do not misunderstand what
:17:42. > :17:51.I'm doing. You have to understand the situation we're in. We have
:17:51. > :17:56.great Africans. We're doing well in engineering, sports. We have good
:17:56. > :18:00.African soldiers, doctors, physicians. When it comes to
:18:00. > :18:09.African governments, how many African countries are doing well as
:18:09. > :18:16.governments? CD corruption in South Africa. That is one side. The race
:18:16. > :18:22.that, but the point I am looking -- put into you is that you're giving
:18:22. > :18:28.me a one dimensional picture. you listen to my music, there was a
:18:28. > :18:34.track called bad government. We are dynamic, we do very well. Webb
:18:34. > :18:40.comes to the government, what is the government to wrong-foot the
:18:40. > :18:47.people? Do you believe that three of music you can make the
:18:47. > :18:54.government pay attention? Years. People will be motivated to be good
:18:54. > :18:58.people through my music. If I can be as successful and had not sold
:18:58. > :19:04.up to live in Europe or Los Angeles and they come back and stay in
:19:04. > :19:09.Nigeria and fight for the poor people, they can do we do as well.
:19:09. > :19:17.They can make Africa great. We know that a lot of Africans are going
:19:17. > :19:21.back. They are losing despite leaving the West's. Why should
:19:21. > :19:27.Africa always look up to the West. Why shouldn't Africa be the envy of
:19:27. > :19:35.the world? When you look at your music, apart from the political
:19:35. > :19:40.message using of love. Some of your lyrics array bit racy. If you look
:19:40. > :19:47.at Nigeria today, UK the track you came from Lagos. You cannot go to
:19:47. > :19:57.the north. You have not performed in the north for 20 years. That is
:19:57. > :19:59.
:19:59. > :20:08.indicative of a big divide. This is a political class. Because of the
:20:08. > :20:14.poverty in the North, it is so bad compared to the south. Over the
:20:14. > :20:18.years it has deteriorated to were the northerners are becoming
:20:18. > :20:26.suicide bombers. We could not think about this in the 70s. What would
:20:26. > :20:31.you say about the bombings now? Is that progress? Is that things that
:20:31. > :20:40.in the 1970s, the electricity would go for two hours a day. Now we have
:20:40. > :20:44.no electricity for days. You're talking of the oil-rich province
:20:44. > :20:51.King Juan Carlos of Spain is where they take all the oil. They have no
:20:51. > :20:55.schools. They complain about the big companies taking oil. You do
:20:55. > :21:03.not see a religious divide? You bring it all down to a lack of
:21:03. > :21:09.opportunity and wealth? Over 50 years of bad government, corruption,
:21:09. > :21:14.the government says all his good things. Yes, we will do these
:21:15. > :21:24.things, will give you electricity. They have seen this. In the north
:21:24. > :21:28.now you have suicide bombers. In the 1980s when my father was
:21:28. > :21:37.talking we could not envisage that. We did not believe that Nigerians
:21:37. > :21:43.would become suicide bombers. are celebrating your 50th birthday.
:21:43. > :21:48.Your country is slightly older than you. As you look at it now, do you
:21:48. > :21:57.fear for Nigeria that after so many years of independence it is still
:21:57. > :22:04.unable to get its act together? I fear. I fear that it could end up
:22:04. > :22:08.like Sudan. I fear for division. I want my children to go to school in
:22:08. > :22:15.Africa. I dunno what to lose this quarter. I do know what my children
:22:15. > :22:20.to look up to Europe or America and believe this is where they need to
:22:20. > :22:28.be. What is the contribution of Africa in the global world? Would
:22:28. > :22:35.you go into politics? Know. I don't want to. I am a musician. I want to
:22:35. > :22:41.play music. I went to meet people. Now there you have turned 50 cure
:22:41. > :22:49.not digging it is time for a change? Know. 80 per the saxophone,
:22:49. > :22:53.Nowra play the trumpet. -- now I play the trumpet. I do not do this
:22:53. > :22:59.because I want to become famous. I do would because I am truly
:22:59. > :23:02.concerned about the level of poverty on the continent of Africa.
:23:02. > :23:10.Globally, I am concerned about Greece, I am concerned about Kosovo