:00:10. > :00:13.Now on BBC News it's time for For years, it has been one of the
:00:13. > :00:17.biggest questions in sport. Did Lance Armstrong, the seven-time
:00:18. > :00:21.winner of cycling's greatest race, the Tour de France, dope? Is the
:00:21. > :00:27.man who beat cancer to become one of the greatest sporting figures
:00:27. > :00:29.ever, a cheat? Armstrong has denied wrongdoing. But now a former
:00:29. > :00:33.teammate and roommate of Armstrong's, Tyler Hamilton, has
:00:33. > :00:38.produced the most detailed and wounding set of allegations yet. Is
:00:38. > :00:48.Hamilton self-serving and greedy, as Armstrong insists? Or a shaft of
:00:48. > :01:19.
:01:19. > :01:26.light on a sport that's been mired Walkern -- welcome it. You have
:01:26. > :01:32.made enormous waves in sport with the allegations. You began day been
:01:32. > :01:41.even began at the nets and became a team-mate of Armstrong. This was
:01:41. > :01:48.back in the 90s. Why did you start? I worked my way up to the highest
:01:48. > :01:54.level of the sport which is in Europe. You are months away from
:01:54. > :02:01.racing in a first Tour de France. It started with a small pool. It
:02:01. > :02:11.was a pillar of testosterone. That is how it started. It started in
:02:11. > :02:13.
:02:13. > :02:18.the spring of 2007. I take full responsibility for what I do. Back
:02:18. > :02:24.then, back in the 90s it was more of a culture. You work your way up
:02:24. > :02:30.to the top. Once you put your foot in the Dora, it was presented to
:02:30. > :02:38.you by the team. Again it was a choice. It was not a gun to my head.
:02:38. > :02:43.I do take full responsibility. The responsibility falls on not just on
:02:44. > :02:49.the outbreak. There are people who are pushing it. -- of the outlay. I
:02:50. > :02:54.am glad the sport has cleaned up a lot. I am telling the truth now.
:02:54. > :03:00.says there was no gun to your head and it was part of the culture. But
:03:00. > :03:08.you do make the decision. Did you have qualms at the time? I had
:03:08. > :03:13.qualms. My parents taught me the truth between what is right a wrong.
:03:13. > :03:22.I made the wrong decision. At the time, there was not a lot of
:03:22. > :03:29.choices to make. It was either a dope or club back home. -- or go
:03:29. > :03:35.back home of. There was another thing that would boost the amount
:03:35. > :03:42.of oxygen that carries red blood cells that you had. In your case,
:03:42. > :03:50.it was boosted from A-level 42 to near 50. It was almost a 20%
:03:50. > :03:56.increase. How important was that difference to your performance as a
:03:56. > :04:04.cyclist? It helped tremendously. I had the good results coming in
:04:04. > :04:11.before I started doping. To compete with the best, it was necessary.
:04:11. > :04:18.Whether it was 49 or 46. It was a significant boost. I am not of my
:04:18. > :04:25.results for the doping, for sure. You were already doping by the tiny
:04:25. > :04:30.met Lance Armstrong. You detained in your memoirs that Alan's
:04:30. > :04:38.Armstrong himself can seems to these drugs. -- Lance Armstrong.
:04:38. > :04:48.You talk about an incident in his villa in 1999 When you asked if he
:04:48. > :04:51.
:04:51. > :04:57.could borrow some. What happened? asked him. I was -- my European-
:04:57. > :05:03.based was in Spain. We were training in France. I as if I could
:05:03. > :05:09.have some. He has sung in his refrigerator. He pointed towards
:05:09. > :05:13.his refrigerator. You say that unlike you, who was rather
:05:13. > :05:23.concerned about you stored yacht the PLO. His was there in full
:05:23. > :05:23.
:05:23. > :05:33.sight. -- store your jabs. I would definitely had mine in the back of
:05:33. > :05:34.
:05:34. > :05:41.the refrigerator, concealing it in water bottles or old Coke cans.
:05:42. > :05:47.Forgive me for the delay and for cutting across. He did not just can
:05:47. > :05:54.soon Jobs himself. He also organised drug-taking for the team.
:05:54. > :06:00.-- drugs. How did that work? He did not really organise it. We were
:06:00. > :06:05.France. A friend in need. He held out a friend in need. You do say
:06:05. > :06:10.you -- he organises it. You said you were standing in his kitchen
:06:10. > :06:15.when he lined up the plan to you and some team-mates. He would pay a
:06:15. > :06:21.man to follow the tour, carrying a thermos of the drugs. It sounds
:06:21. > :06:31.like it was organised. If that is what you want to call it. What
:06:31. > :06:32.
:06:32. > :06:38.would you call it? At that time it was organised finance, my team-mate
:06:39. > :06:45.and myself. -- for Lance Armstrong. I want to go back to the point of
:06:45. > :06:55.the culture of the sport back then. The majority of the peloton... If I
:06:55. > :07:01.opened any of their refrigerators, I would have found doping products.
:07:01. > :07:07.Armstrong is a target for a lot of what you write in your book. You
:07:08. > :07:14.talk about in 2001 in the Tour of Switzerland that he told Sue he had
:07:15. > :07:23.tested positive. But he was remarkably relaxed about the result.
:07:23. > :07:33.What happened? He told me about the situation right after breakfast. It
:07:33. > :07:37.was the morning of stage nine or ten. Before I could get to anxious
:07:37. > :07:44.about their it he told me it was going to be taken care of. What did
:07:44. > :07:51.he mean by that? I assumed that he was speaking with the governing
:07:51. > :07:56.body of the sport. Adding there was a meeting afterwards. -- I think
:07:56. > :08:04.there was. You are suggesting that the governing body was complicit in
:08:04. > :08:13.covering up a positive drugs test. Absolutely. That is a shocking
:08:13. > :08:22.allegation. Do you have any proof? I was there when I heard the words
:08:22. > :08:27.come and it is now. -- out of his mouth. There is plenty of details
:08:27. > :08:33.in the book that will back that. says he has been tested hundreds of
:08:33. > :08:37.times and has never been found to have been tested positive. He has
:08:37. > :08:43.nothing to apologise for. You on the other hand, have tested
:08:43. > :08:48.positive. Several times. That is the reason you're ashamed and had
:08:48. > :08:58.you Olympic gold medal stripped. There is a difference between the
:08:58. > :08:58.
:08:58. > :09:03.two of you. I passed many doping controls over my career. I felt a
:09:03. > :09:08.couple towards the end of my career but I pass and not there should not
:09:08. > :09:13.have. Hundreds. The world governing body of cycling has said there has
:09:13. > :09:21.never been any cover-up in the Tour of Switzerland or the Tour de
:09:21. > :09:28.France. They also say whether have been problems with doping controls,
:09:28. > :09:36.does have been tightened up since. How is it so easy for you to invade
:09:36. > :09:43.the dopers if you say you did get away with it? As I describe in the
:09:43. > :09:51.box, back then, all the teams had top doctors. They basically gave
:09:51. > :10:01.you an outline of how you can serve and still pass the test. They gave
:10:01. > :10:05.
:10:05. > :10:12.you a time line of how long you would test positive for. There was
:10:12. > :10:22.also an ability to be a weapons- grade liar.Again and again and
:10:22. > :10:25.
:10:25. > :10:29.again on the fact that you had not taken drugs.To your parents. I
:10:29. > :10:35.family Tommy really strong values and the biggest thing was honesty.
:10:35. > :10:40.To call me a liar was the worst thing you could call me. Had he
:10:40. > :10:45.feel about the fact that he did lie so brazenly? I live for 15 years
:10:45. > :10:50.and I did a good job of it. The more you like, the better you get
:10:50. > :10:54.at it. At the time I thought it was the best thing I could do to come
:10:54. > :10:59.back to the sport after I served my suspension. I did not want to get
:10:59. > :11:04.anyone else involved. I knew if I told the truth, the whole truth, in
:11:04. > :11:12.2004, there would be a lot of careers on the line. A lot of
:11:12. > :11:16.careers. A beastly that was wrong. I wish I came out. You do it -- you
:11:16. > :11:21.then made the decision to tell a therapy is your entire story. It is
:11:21. > :11:29.a very controversial steroid. That was when the Federal of Friday's
:11:29. > :11:34.began their own investigation in 2010. -- federal authorities. What
:11:34. > :11:40.made you speak with the authorities? That is a great
:11:40. > :11:50.conjure -- question. I lied for so long. It was almost like the
:11:50. > :11:50.
:11:50. > :11:53.perfect storms. My old cycling team was being investigated during the
:11:53. > :11:58.1999 and 2000 season. I were subpoenaed and brought a friend of
:11:58. > :12:06.the grand jury. That was the first time I told the truth and the whole
:12:06. > :12:14.trip. The first 15 minutes, the information was trickling out of me
:12:14. > :12:20.and then it began to poorer. To tell the troops are felt like
:12:20. > :12:25.�1,000 a weight off my back. I was prepared to go to the grave with
:12:25. > :12:33.the secret. I was sure of that. I had moved on past cycling. I was
:12:33. > :12:37.moving on with my life. I was prepared to die with their secrets.
:12:38. > :12:42.Stanyer from the grandeur, I realise what a burden it had been
:12:42. > :12:48.funny. Me and my family. After speaking in front of them and
:12:48. > :12:56.realising how good I felt after was is one I said, I need to tell the
:12:56. > :13:02.world the truth. I cannot live with this anymore. You say in your book
:13:02. > :13:07.that you or your lawyer received a series of urgent calls from Lance
:13:07. > :13:17.Armstrong's legal team, offering their services for free. Where did
:13:17. > :13:19.
:13:19. > :13:24.you do about that? I did not taking up on his offer. Standing in front
:13:24. > :13:28.of the grand jury, there was no lawyer next to me. It was just me,
:13:28. > :13:37.and the grand jury there. It felt great to stand up there and spill
:13:37. > :13:46.my doubts. We describe this as a classic last -- he described this
:13:46. > :13:51.as a classic Armstrong move of. What did you mean by that? I think
:13:51. > :13:57.obviously he wanted been to be part of his legal team. Number one added
:13:57. > :14:04.nothing but was ethical. Number two Adin not plan online anymore. I did
:14:05. > :14:08.not want any part of that. -- I did not want to rely anymore. Let's
:14:08. > :14:13.talk about be encountered you had with Lance Armstrong just before
:14:13. > :14:23.you began your disclosures to the US federal investigation. Would
:14:23. > :14:29.
:14:29. > :14:36.He caught me by surprise. He found out which restaurant I was in. I
:14:36. > :14:45.was in Aspen, Colorado. He intimidated me. He had his friends
:14:45. > :14:49.around him. He cornered me. He was not so pleased with me. He wasn't
:14:49. > :14:53.just not pleased with you, he said that when you were on the witness
:14:53. > :14:58.stand TV is going to tear you apart, make you look like an idiot and
:14:58. > :15:06.maker life a living hell. This is a man you continued to describe as a
:15:06. > :15:13.friend. He is not a friend anymore. He is an old friend of mine. Lance
:15:13. > :15:18.Armstrong himself has denied any wrongdoing. He has said, even after
:15:18. > :15:23.the US anti-doping Agency decided that they were going to ban him for
:15:23. > :15:28.life, he said "I am finished with this nonsense. I refused to
:15:28. > :15:32.participate in a process which is so one-sided and unfair." What do
:15:32. > :15:39.you think should happen to him? Should he be stripped of his seven
:15:40. > :15:46.Tour de France idols? Firstly, I would like to point out that I lied
:15:46. > :15:52.for a long time. He is denying the accusations and, in a strange way,
:15:52. > :15:56.I get it. I understand. That was my immediate reaction when I was
:15:56. > :16:01.accused. Hopefully some day he comes out and tells the truth. I
:16:01. > :16:05.think it would be great for him. Speaking from my own experience, it
:16:05. > :16:11.is hard to keep those secrets. has given no indication that he
:16:11. > :16:16.wants to come out and be clean, as you say. He insists that he has
:16:16. > :16:19.nothing to apologise for. The question was, do you think he
:16:19. > :16:27.should have the seven Tour de France titles removed from him?
:16:27. > :16:34.Back in those days, the majority of their Peloton was doping to some
:16:34. > :16:43.degree. Maybe it is best to leave it blank. It is not for me to
:16:43. > :16:50.decide. It was a dark time for Cycling that we went through.
:16:50. > :16:55.wonder, because of that, just how much remorse you feel. In your book,
:16:55. > :17:00.you wrote "you can call me a cheetah and adore par until the
:17:00. > :17:05.cows come home but, in a race where everyone had equal opportunity, I
:17:05. > :17:10.played the game and I played it well." That does not sound that the
:17:10. > :17:15.words of a man who thinks he has nothing to apologise for. I feel
:17:15. > :17:23.awful for what I did. I feel awful for what they did. Lying to your
:17:23. > :17:28.parents for 15 years, telling them six months ago of the real truth
:17:29. > :17:33.was an awful experience. It is something I hope no athlete ever
:17:33. > :17:37.has to go through again. I feel terrible about what I did. I
:17:37. > :17:42.understand people will probably hate me or dislike me for the rest
:17:42. > :17:48.of my life but I am doing the right thing now and that is the most
:17:48. > :17:54.important thing, telling the truth. I really hope that this is the
:17:54. > :18:01.foundation of the future of cycling. I want them to go back and have
:18:01. > :18:09.transparency. It will make for a clear has bought in the future. --
:18:09. > :18:14.cleaner. I want to ask you about that. You said you do it for 15
:18:14. > :18:17.years. Why should we believe you now? Lance Armstrong has said
:18:17. > :18:22.you're greedy and self-serving. Why should we believe that Tyler
:18:22. > :18:28.Hamilton is telling the truth? You're just going to have to
:18:28. > :18:32.believe me. For a lot of people, they need to read the book and then
:18:32. > :18:37.they can decide themselves. There is a lot of evidence. Everything is
:18:37. > :18:45.backed up by more than one source. It is the truth, that is all I can
:18:45. > :18:55.save. Nothing but the truth. I worked for it -- or it for two hard
:18:55. > :19:00.
:19:00. > :19:06.years. His Cycling cleaner now? Absolutely. I believe the first
:19:06. > :19:12.place time from a difficult section last year would have been 45th
:19:12. > :19:16.place ten years ago. Things have slowed down drastically. Some of
:19:16. > :19:20.the people involved and cycling at the top level are people that you
:19:20. > :19:29.yourself have said have serious questions to answer for. For
:19:29. > :19:34.example, your team director, he said that she was a man who was a
:19:34. > :19:39.cyclist. You said he doped as a team manager as well as a cyclist.
:19:40. > :19:44.You said he'd encourage you to take drug transfusions. -- blood
:19:44. > :19:48.transfusions. He is still the manager of one of the Tour de
:19:48. > :19:55.France's big teams. How do you square that with your contention
:19:55. > :20:00.that cycling is cleaner now? I said it is a lot cleaner but it is not
:20:00. > :20:06.perfect it. There are still bad apples and a bunch. There still
:20:06. > :20:12.needs to be some ailing out of people's pasts. He is one of them.
:20:12. > :20:17.I think he needs to be more transparent, not necessarily leave
:20:17. > :20:26.the sport. I understand his line. It has been his line for a long,
:20:26. > :20:31.long time. When was the last time you spoke to Lance Armstrong?
:20:31. > :20:38.the restaurant in Aspen, Colorado, about 18 months ago. He surprised
:20:38. > :20:48.me. When he surprised you and, as you say, he intimidated you, what
:20:48. > :20:49.
:20:49. > :20:55.was your reaction at the time? was surprised. There was a federal
:20:55. > :21:02.investigation going on at the time. It was not in either a far best
:21:02. > :21:06.interests to be speaking. -- either of power. I was not comfortable. It
:21:06. > :21:11.was a crowded restaurant and his voice was very loud. It was very
:21:11. > :21:17.uncomfortable. Back asked several times to either take it into a
:21:17. > :21:21.quiet room or go outside and talk about it. He did not want that.
:21:21. > :21:26.you not at all sympathetic to the idea that whatever Lance Armstrong
:21:26. > :21:31.did or did not do as a cyclist, and, as they say, he insists he has
:21:31. > :21:36.nothing to apologise for, this is a man who is a figure of tremendous
:21:36. > :21:41.inspiration to hundreds of millions of people around the world. He has
:21:41. > :21:46.got that purchase some people's imagination. He has raised hundreds
:21:46. > :21:51.of millions of dollars for his charity because he can introduce
:21:51. > :21:55.himself as the man who beat cancer and won the Tour de France seven
:21:55. > :22:03.times. Is it right that he should be brought down in this time -- in
:22:03. > :22:08.this way by people such as you? That is not something that I should
:22:08. > :22:16.be answering. What I can say, he is one of the best athletes I have
:22:16. > :22:21.ever met, period. Incredible. Incredible. Depending on how people
:22:21. > :22:26.want to precede him in the future, that is not up to me. This is my
:22:26. > :22:31.story. -- perceive. I told my story and I wrote about it. Add the
:22:31. > :22:37.better for doing it. Do you think Lance Armstrong are needed to go?
:22:37. > :22:46.At the time, to keep up with everybody, yes. The majority of the
:22:46. > :22:50.peloton where doping. I said a few minutes ago, ten years later, the
:22:50. > :22:54.Times are the lot slower. The speeds of the peloton back then
:22:54. > :23:01.were so incredibly fast that I can imagine keeping up with the best
:23:01. > :23:07.without it. When you get on your bike now, do you think to yourself,
:23:07. > :23:13."Thank goodness for the extraordinary career that I had."
:23:13. > :23:23.Or do you think to yourself, "I wish I had imagined an anonymous,
:23:23. > :23:29.back of the peloton cyclist who at least they did clean"? I wish I did
:23:29. > :23:34.it clean. It was a great experience over all. All the travelling. I got
:23:34. > :23:40.to see the world for ten years in Europe. It was a sad part of my
:23:40. > :23:45.life, really, looking back. This story, the book, it is a sad story.
:23:45. > :23:54.I am proud of coming out and telling the truth. I am really
:23:54. > :23:58.proud of that. It is a sad, tragic story. It is very tragic. I spoke
:23:58. > :24:03.to an 11-year-old athlete last year, I asked him what he wanted to do
:24:03. > :24:09.but he grew up, he said he wanted to become a professional cyclist.
:24:09. > :24:13.It made me sick to my stomach. I don't want him to have to go
:24:13. > :24:19.through, if he gets to that level, to go through the same choices I