:00:07. > :00:10.were unfairly treated. Now it is time for HARDtalk.
:00:10. > :00:16.If football is the world's global sport then sitting atop that, year
:00:16. > :00:18.after year, is the English Premier League. No other league has the
:00:18. > :00:22.money or the international following that has transformed it
:00:22. > :00:26.into the biggest of the lot. But as the new season gets underway, is
:00:26. > :00:33.football's health a cause for rejoicing? Or does its enormous
:00:33. > :00:36.wealth contrast with a poverty of good behaviour? HARDtalk's Tim
:00:36. > :00:46.Franks speaks to Gordon Taylor. What does the boss of the players'
:00:46. > :01:11.
:01:11. > :01:18.Will come too hot Matt. Are you surprised by the backlash there has
:01:18. > :01:28.been against football since the Olympics? Are not. I expected it.
:01:28. > :01:29.
:01:29. > :01:37.We had some problems last year and problems with lyricism. But it has
:01:37. > :01:42.been a long time since the problems of the 80s with health and safety.
:01:42. > :01:49.The game has moved on a great deal. It is the price of football has to
:01:50. > :01:57.pay for being so much in the spotlight. The players have become
:01:57. > :02:07.celebrities. When they step out of line, there is a very big torch on
:02:07. > :02:08.
:02:08. > :02:17.them on and off the field. Is it justified? There is a perception at
:02:17. > :02:26.times that you forget. In the replace you never have any problems
:02:26. > :02:35.and others to always seemed to be in trouble. -- who always seemed.
:02:35. > :02:45.Should footballers be role models? The Olympics were really uplifting
:02:45. > :02:47.
:02:47. > :02:57.but that is once every four years and for two weeks. Football is
:02:57. > :03:07.woven into the tapestry of our social history. We have good times
:03:07. > :03:10.
:03:10. > :03:13.and also bad times. But it is more than personal bad times?
:03:13. > :03:21.fairness with the Olympics, it was brilliant to see the inclusive
:03:21. > :03:27.nature of the opening ceremony. The still had your problems like with
:03:27. > :03:34.Badminton. But those were the exception. How much do you have
:03:34. > :03:40.sympathy with the view of a sports writer Mike James Lawton who said
:03:40. > :03:48.that -- said, "Lets hope Arafat's of overpaid footballers have been
:03:48. > :03:53.watching the games." any sympathy with that? No. He makes his living
:03:53. > :03:59.from watching football, it has always been there for him. He has
:03:59. > :04:05.written books on football. So he knows what he's talking about.
:04:05. > :04:12.does, but he is at times like myself. Sometimes, you forget that
:04:12. > :04:22.even in his day, there were the characters who did not get lone
:04:22. > :04:27.
:04:27. > :04:37.don't like the modern media dollars. -- lampooned. If anything, Tommy
:04:37. > :04:42.
:04:42. > :04:45.Smith and Norman Hunter were idolised. I do understand the
:04:45. > :04:54.contrast with the sporting nature of the Olympics and football can
:04:54. > :05:01.learn from that. We can't be in an ivory tower and not see the effect.
:05:01. > :05:10.But we saw around may when football came together because football is
:05:10. > :05:15.very tribal. At times, I have referred to problems in the 80s
:05:15. > :05:25.when that blew up and everyone said, we will never deal with hooliganism
:05:25. > :05:34.
:05:34. > :05:44.and racism. We have worked at that. Players, staff, her crowds all got
:05:44. > :05:48.
:05:48. > :05:54.behind Fabrice Muamba in support. People have not forgotten the
:05:54. > :05:58.affair with John Terry and the allegation that he racially abused
:05:58. > :06:06.a black player. There was a criminal trial a few months ago and
:06:06. > :06:16.he was found not guilty. He is currently facing a misconduct
:06:16. > :06:19.
:06:19. > :06:29.charge for racist behaviour. What do you think should happen to him?
:06:29. > :06:30.
:06:30. > :06:40.I don't want to comment. They have a new code of conduct now, but on
:06:40. > :06:40.
:06:40. > :06:44.the other hand, you have to be careful with litigation. It was
:06:44. > :06:54.almost ironic that the Crown prosecution Service chose to say,
:06:54. > :06:57.
:06:57. > :07:07.hold off. I feel we should deal with these matters. Often the
:07:07. > :07:10.
:07:10. > :07:20.penalties are much worse than any court imposes. I want to get to the
:07:20. > :07:21.
:07:21. > :07:25.ways Suarez. The fine is so much heavier than any court imposes.
:07:25. > :07:31.Piano asking specifically about John Terry. He was selected to play
:07:31. > :07:41.for England last week. Roy Hodgson said he had no interest in a debate
:07:41. > :07:41.
:07:41. > :07:49.as to whether he should be plain. The EU agree it is immaterial
:07:49. > :07:59.whether he be selected now for England? I think it is a very
:07:59. > :08:02.
:08:02. > :08:12.difficult one. I think taking the captaincy of him was something they
:08:12. > :08:16.
:08:16. > :08:26.need to do. When you have seen how protracted that process became
:08:26. > :08:35.because they all got involved, suddenly, the main court did not
:08:36. > :08:45.find him guilty. It has impacted on the judgement of the manager
:08:46. > :08:50.
:08:50. > :08:56.because they took the captaincy of them. I'm asking what your view is.
:08:56. > :09:06.It is difficult to take a player out of 18 no matter what the
:09:06. > :09:10.
:09:10. > :09:20.charges. -- out of a team. This is a charge of races them. I remember
:09:20. > :09:23.
:09:23. > :09:28.when there was a charge against Alan Smith. In relation to the
:09:28. > :09:38.crowd. He was left out of the team as a result. Then he was found not
:09:38. > :09:41.
:09:41. > :09:48.guilty. The quality of justice is very hard to get right. What should
:09:48. > :09:58.happen to players found guilty of racism? It -- it depends on
:09:58. > :10:00.
:10:00. > :10:10.circumstances of the particular case. There was something we would
:10:10. > :10:13.
:10:13. > :10:22.like to highlight in the contract with Barcelona. Gross misconduct
:10:22. > :10:32.worthy of termination. We have rolled out education lessons and
:10:32. > :10:32.
:10:32. > :10:37.worked with various organisations. If you're talking about terminating
:10:37. > :10:44.contracts, if John Terry is found guilty of gross misconduct, should
:10:44. > :10:54.he play football for Chelsea again? That his side had the poetical
:10:54. > :10:59.
:10:59. > :11:09.question. It is a reasonable one. - - that is a hypothetical question.
:11:09. > :11:15.
:11:15. > :11:25.Everybody knows his defence was not beyond reasonable doubt. That is on
:11:25. > :11:30.
:11:30. > :11:40.a balance of probabilities. We had 80 process of law and that was
:11:40. > :11:42.
:11:42. > :11:49.taken up by the Crown prosecution Service. It is not for me while the
:11:49. > :11:56.process is going on to say what I think should happen. Let me I'll
:11:56. > :12:03.ask you about money. There was Suarez was found guilty. We saw how
:12:03. > :12:12.difficult it was. He was still maintaining his innocence. That
:12:12. > :12:22.caused a big problem. I would like to move on. If you don't want to
:12:22. > :12:25.
:12:25. > :12:35.accept it, you can appeal against it. Do you think -- de had any
:12:35. > :12:35.
:12:35. > :12:42.sympathy at all with people who love the game who say that
:12:42. > :12:52.footballers are simply paid too much these days? Every labourer his
:12:52. > :13:01.
:13:01. > :13:07.work has higher. -- his higher. It is about supply and demand. You
:13:07. > :13:13.lose 50 players Priya with permanent injury. Out of the 600 he
:13:13. > :13:23.joined the club at 16, 500 will be out by the tape -- age they -- time
:13:23. > :13:30.
:13:30. > :13:37.there are 21. It would be ideal if they were role models. Let me ask
:13:38. > :13:42.you about this, you say every labourer is worth his or her wage.
:13:42. > :13:52.The point that is made more and more the club owners is that it is
:13:52. > :13:55.
:13:55. > :14:02.unsustainable. And paying out 80% of the club's income on wages is
:14:02. > :14:12.unsustainable. Many football clubs are going to the wall over this.
:14:12. > :14:13.
:14:13. > :14:23.Footballers used to be under a maximum wage. They weren't able to
:14:23. > :14:28.
:14:28. > :14:32.We are in favour of the financial fair-play rules. Satellite
:14:32. > :14:41.television has come in. It offered amazing money compared to what
:14:41. > :14:46.happened in the past. Football players are getting a lot less to
:14:46. > :14:49.what they were getting. Then the satellite television people came in.
:14:49. > :14:54.You have seen the power of television and the power of
:14:54. > :15:04.football. They have been good for each other. The Premier League gets
:15:04. > :15:11.criticised. At times in England it is really strange. In America, they
:15:11. > :15:17.would be looked up to. Let me ask you specifically about broadcast
:15:17. > :15:27.rights. The latest three-year deal, just within the UK, has seen it go
:15:27. > :15:30.
:15:30. > :15:36.up nearly 80%. Should those wagers... Should that increased go
:15:36. > :15:42.into their wages? The game is about players. That is what the crowds
:15:42. > :15:47.and their four. Decried is there to support their club. If they feel
:15:47. > :15:53.like their club is going to the wall... I am not inventing does.
:15:53. > :16:00.Why should film stars... Why should Elton John get $500,000 for a
:16:00. > :16:08.concert? The thing that is concerning... I will quote it to
:16:08. > :16:11.you. It is about the journey men, for all players, the mediocre
:16:11. > :16:21.football players who are being turned into instant multi-
:16:21. > :16:25.
:16:25. > :16:31.millionaires. I am not talking about the lower divisions. England,
:16:31. > :16:41.50 million population, more full- time clubs, more full-time players
:16:41. > :16:43.
:16:43. > :16:50.- we should be proud of that. Morgan, the owner of Wolverhampton,
:16:50. > :16:54.he says, mid- ranking on lower my dragging clubs of mind 60% of their
:16:54. > :17:03.turn over of wages is not sustainable. What are they thinking
:17:03. > :17:08.of? It is not fair to need to be critical. I cannot tell Steve
:17:08. > :17:13.Morgan about how he should run the football club. It is not just him.
:17:14. > :17:19.They are managing to survive, the income is going up. Manchester
:17:19. > :17:26.United work out about 60% of their income on wages. And yet they are
:17:26. > :17:32.so highly valued, their stock market price goes up and up.
:17:32. > :17:42.Because they are successful. Do you have any sympathy to the idea that
:17:42. > :17:46.
:17:46. > :17:51.some sort -- to some sort of salary cap. We have the sympathy... We
:17:51. > :17:58.have sympathy to financial propriety. We have spent three
:17:58. > :18:03.decades dealing with the likes of Portsmouth to have not been handled
:18:03. > :18:07.well financially. Clubs over commit. That is the nature of sport, to
:18:07. > :18:17.speculate, to dream, to think you can get up there. From that point
:18:17. > :18:17.
:18:17. > :18:20.of view, we don't want to see clubs going into administration. I don't
:18:20. > :18:26.think any young player should be denied and his ability to
:18:26. > :18:34.capitalise on his talent. One thing that erasures fans, especially
:18:34. > :18:44.these days... Or the media and everybody liked to call it. You
:18:44. > :18:45.
:18:45. > :18:55.join the crowd? One of the antics that enrages France, more these
:18:55. > :19:00.days than any other day... Is the culture of shooting. What can you
:19:00. > :19:10.do about cheating, about diving, about this epidemic of feigning
:19:10. > :19:15.injury on the pitch? We work with the FA, the Premier Football Nick,
:19:15. > :19:22.and the referees to try to make sure the game is played in the best
:19:22. > :19:26.possible spirit. Is it working? you asked the referees, they will
:19:26. > :19:32.say yes. They say the conduct of the players are far better than it
:19:32. > :19:40.is low on the scale. That is not to say it is perfect. When you say it
:19:40. > :19:49.is not working, it is a physical and fast-moving game. Wayne Rooney
:19:49. > :19:54.was very fortunate the other week. But was a real injury. That is what
:19:54. > :20:01.happens. Sometimes you wonder how a player can go down. It is at such
:20:01. > :20:05.speed. When it is blatant that a player has feigned injury...
:20:05. > :20:14.have suggested in the past you have certain sympathy for those who do
:20:14. > :20:19.feign injury. No, I did not. As a player, if you touch in the box,
:20:19. > :20:25.the manager says you should have gone down because if you do try to
:20:25. > :20:30.stay on your feet, the referee is faced with a difficult decision.
:20:30. > :20:35.You think that is reasonable? think contact is made. In order to
:20:35. > :20:39.get that decision, players will go down. Do you think clubs should
:20:39. > :20:43.face disciplinary actions for misbehaviour by their players?
:20:43. > :20:47.Should they be docked points if they have been deemed,
:20:47. > :20:55.retrospectively, to have cheated their way to victory? If you are
:20:55. > :21:04.talking about technology, Maradona was hailed a hero when Argentina...
:21:04. > :21:08.When he handled the ball. It was very hard to live with. You feel
:21:08. > :21:14.like if another player had done Mark -- done that, he would have
:21:14. > :21:20.told the referee. You do have good sportsmen and women. Eating clubs
:21:21. > :21:24.should be docked points? -- do you think. I think clubs with bad
:21:24. > :21:29.disciplinary records should be warned. They should initially be
:21:29. > :21:37.fine. That happens. If the record does not improve, they are fined
:21:37. > :21:47.again. And then they should be threatened with. Deductions. --
:21:47. > :21:47.
:21:48. > :21:54.with point Productions. DC... This is a game that has an extraordinary
:21:54. > :21:59.number of followers around the world. At the same time, there are
:21:59. > :22:03.lots and lots of people who are very worried about the nature of
:22:03. > :22:12.the game. About the cheating, about the mining, about the attendant
:22:12. > :22:16.problems. -- the money. Should we be happy or should we be worried?
:22:16. > :22:26.It is creating such wealth. It is the responsibility for everybody in
:22:26. > :22:30.it. They should be Social responsibility. The billionaire's
:22:30. > :22:34.in the IT would have given money back for good causes. What is not
:22:34. > :22:40.always appreciated are the community programmes that are in
:22:40. > :22:50.existence. Do you feel let down by your own members? Of course I do.
:22:50. > :22:55.That is human nature. It would be a strange world otherwise. If you had
:22:55. > :23:00.a team of choirboys, you would not expect them to it all be brilliant.
:23:00. > :23:06.That his life. It is a class of children. You have good, bad, in
:23:06. > :23:09.different. You'll have the ones you can reliant. Last year, the FA
:23:09. > :23:14.players made 40,000 visits to good causes. Their work with the
:23:14. > :23:21.government on initiatives to combat obesity, to try and combat knife
:23:21. > :23:25.crime. There are millions put in by the Premier League, the Football
:23:25. > :23:31.Association, the Football League into social responsibility
:23:31. > :23:38.programmes and grassroots football. My local club, a Methodist Sunday
:23:38. > :23:47.School, was transformed by grants. I unveiled a plaque to after warden
:23:47. > :23:52.who played in that area. -- for a player. People do not always
:23:52. > :23:56.appreciate what football gives back to the community. I cannot think of