:00:28. > :00:32.Three have come to New York City for an exclusive interview with the
:00:32. > :00:40.President of Burma, U Thein Sein, who has undergone a remarkable
:00:40. > :00:43.transformation. From former stalwart of a military junta into
:00:43. > :00:52.the reformist leader of a nation desperate to end its international
:00:52. > :00:56.isolation. Burma's authoritarian rulers used to vilify the western
:00:56. > :01:05.media, but now they are ready to talk. How far down the road to
:01:05. > :01:15.democracy are they prepared to travel?
:01:15. > :01:20.Welcome to HARDtalk. Let me begin by talking about what he said at
:01:20. > :01:27.the UN a few days ago. You said your country is making amazing
:01:27. > :01:32.changes. Irreversible steps towards democracy. And yet, for decades,
:01:32. > :01:42.year, a loyal member of a military dictatorship - what has made you
:01:42. > :02:05.
:02:05. > :02:12.Let me ask you about one particular citizen of your country - Aung San
:02:12. > :02:17.Suu Kyi. She spent almost two decades under house arrest,
:02:17. > :02:24.confined to her own house as a result of her political opposition
:02:24. > :02:27.to your military dictatorship. Are you prepared to say sorry to her
:02:27. > :02:37.and to the thousands of others who were imprisoned by your military
:02:37. > :02:55.
:02:55. > :03:03.But the point is, for people to believe your commitment to
:03:03. > :03:08.democracy is genuine, they also want to hear you say that you
:03:08. > :03:14.regret what happens in the past. You regret the repressive policies
:03:14. > :03:24.of the military government. Are you prepared to say that you now regret
:03:24. > :03:44.
:03:44. > :03:50.But what about regret? Do you have How would you describe the
:03:50. > :03:56.relationship with Aung San Suu Kyi now? You had met her three times.
:03:56. > :04:06.At least once in New York over the past few days. How would you
:04:06. > :04:32.
:04:32. > :04:38.describe the relationship with her Here is where she said in the US a
:04:38. > :04:44.few days ago: Yes, there has been changed in my country but not all
:04:44. > :04:51.of the changes necessary to make sure that we're going to be a
:04:51. > :05:01.genuinely democratic society. The question is, are you prepared to go
:05:01. > :05:15.
:05:15. > :05:18.all the way to create a truly Let's talk about a few of those
:05:18. > :05:24.things. Let's talk about the constitution. Right now, it would
:05:24. > :05:28.be impossible for Aung San Suu Kyi to become President of your country
:05:28. > :05:33.because there are clauses in the constitution that says no President
:05:33. > :05:39.could, for example, have a spouse or children who were nationals of a
:05:39. > :05:44.foreign country which of course she has. Are you prepared to change the
:05:44. > :05:54.constitution in order to allow her, if she is elected by the people, to
:05:54. > :06:32.
:06:32. > :06:37.I understand, Mr President, that you cannot change the constitution
:06:37. > :06:43.single-handed. Budgie has sent very important symbolic gestures already.
:06:43. > :06:48.He could send another one right now. Ie prepared to say that you
:06:48. > :06:51.personally believe it is time to change the constitution, not least
:06:51. > :07:01.to and now Aung San Suu Kyi the possibility of becoming President,
:07:01. > :07:15.
:07:15. > :07:20.if she is elected by the people in But you did choose to praise Aung
:07:20. > :07:25.San Suu Kyi at the United Nations and in other told she had given in
:07:25. > :07:31.America. He had praise her efforts for democracy, he congratulated her
:07:31. > :07:36.on the Nobel Peace Prize, D believe she would make it a good leader of
:07:37. > :07:46.your country? Are you prepared to imagine working with her if she
:07:47. > :08:06.
:08:07. > :08:10.So to be clear about it, if the people what her, and we has seen in
:08:10. > :08:14.recent by-elections and local elections in your country that the
:08:14. > :08:19.national need for democracy has swept the board, they have won a
:08:20. > :08:29.series of by-elections. If the people won her, you say then she
:08:30. > :08:57.
:08:57. > :09:02.As we have already discussed, you have made a remarkable
:09:02. > :09:07.transformation in your own life from senior general member of the
:09:07. > :09:14.military regime to now a President talking of reform. But some people
:09:15. > :09:20.in your country do wonder whether the military is prepared to give up
:09:20. > :09:25.so many of the powers it has enjoyed. For example, right now,
:09:25. > :09:35.the military still has 25% of the seats in the parliament reserved
:09:35. > :09:57.
:09:58. > :10:02.I understand what you're saying about the constitution. I am not
:10:02. > :10:08.just talking about the politics and the constitution. I am also
:10:08. > :10:13.thinking about the economy. To quote the most recent analysis of
:10:13. > :10:18.your country's economy, they say is: Wealth from the country's and
:10:18. > :10:23.poor natural resources is concentrated on the hands of an
:10:23. > :10:33.elite group of military leaders and their associates. Should that
:10:33. > :10:39.
:10:39. > :10:44.It is not true? How come when we look at who owns the mines, who
:10:45. > :10:54.profits from the timber industry, and from vast tracts of
:10:55. > :11:23.
:11:23. > :11:28.agricultural land, it is the When we look at the economy in your
:11:28. > :11:36.country, we have seen in the last 20 years or so, that the key
:11:36. > :11:43.strategic partner has been China. You have been talking to US
:11:43. > :11:49.officials. You have persuaded them to ease the embargo on imports
:11:49. > :11:54.coming from your country into the US. Is it your view that
:11:54. > :11:59.increasingly there is going to be a shift of this strategic
:11:59. > :12:09.relationship and that no country is increasingly looking to the West
:12:09. > :12:37.
:12:37. > :12:42.But from what you have heard in the US from US officials, D believed
:12:42. > :12:52.this is the beginning of a new era in relations between your country
:12:52. > :13:12.
:13:12. > :13:17.There are people in Beijing who are worried about the changes in your
:13:17. > :13:24.country, not least there were upset by one key decision you took when
:13:24. > :13:29.it decided to suspend your work on the dam. A key project worth
:13:29. > :13:37.billions of dollars which was going to give a lot of power to China.
:13:37. > :13:42.You stopped that project. Do you believe it is in your country's
:13:42. > :13:52.interest to have a different, maybe a less close relationship with
:13:52. > :14:15.
:14:15. > :14:20.We have talked a lot about political change and you say to me
:14:20. > :14:26.that you, personally, have changed because you recognise the will of
:14:26. > :14:35.the people. It seems to me that one of the desires of your people is to
:14:35. > :14:40.have an accounting. As sense of justice for past wrongs. We know
:14:40. > :14:45.that tens of thousands of people were imprisoned by the military
:14:45. > :14:49.government. Hundreds, probably thousands, of people were killed
:14:49. > :14:55.during violence perpetrated by in military government. I knew now
:14:55. > :15:05.prepared to investigate the past and deliver accountability and just
:15:05. > :15:25.
:15:25. > :15:35.But, Mr President, what about justice for things that were done
:15:35. > :15:38.
:15:38. > :15:43.Let me be clear about one thing. In the last few weeks, he announced
:15:43. > :15:47.another prisoner release. Hundreds of political prisoners have been
:15:47. > :15:53.released in the past year but human rights groups say there are still
:15:53. > :15:57.perhaps a couple of hundred political prisoners inside Ewood
:15:57. > :16:07.jails. I'd you prepared to tell me here and now that all political
:16:07. > :16:07.
:16:07. > :16:49.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:16:49. > :16:53.prisoners will be released and country. You say that the country
:16:53. > :16:59.has never really enjoyed complete security since independence. The
:16:59. > :17:09.truth is, it still doesn't today. If we look at the latest reports
:17:09. > :17:09.
:17:09. > :17:12.from some of the border areas of your country, for example captain,
:17:12. > :17:17.quoting a human rights report, the Burmese army is still committing
:17:17. > :17:21.unchecked abuses including rape, razing villages and torturing
:17:21. > :17:29.civilians. You have said here in the United States that you will
:17:29. > :17:39.bring piste your country. That means you have to tell the military
:17:39. > :18:08.
:18:08. > :18:12.to behave in a different way. -- I have to ask you about one other
:18:12. > :18:19.issue, which has caused deep concern at the United Nations and
:18:19. > :18:23.around the world. That is the fate of the Muslim population in your
:18:23. > :18:29.country. And this summer we saw terrible clashes, violence, which
:18:29. > :18:35.left more than 80 civilians dead, including women and children. And
:18:35. > :18:42.around the time of those clashes, you said this about that Muslim
:18:42. > :18:52.population. He said, "we can't accept them. They are not our
:18:52. > :18:52.
:18:52. > :20:35.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 41 seconds
:20:35. > :20:39.ethnicity. Refugee camps or Mr President, you know that
:20:39. > :20:44.powerful figures at the UN and around the world have criticised
:20:44. > :20:49.you and your government for your policy towards them. It seems you
:20:49. > :20:55.are now going to be judged by a very high standard. You say that
:20:55. > :21:00.your country is on a path to genuine democracy and to real
:21:00. > :21:06.freedom for all its citizens. So you are going to be judged by a
:21:06. > :21:11.high standard. Do you believe that new, and more particularly the
:21:11. > :21:21.people in the military, that you have been so close to, can meet
:21:21. > :21:22.
:21:22. > :21:29.It strikes me there are perhaps some similarities between your
:21:29. > :21:33.position and that of Gorbachev, who led the transition in the Soviet
:21:33. > :21:38.Union. He was the architect of so much change. But when the change
:21:38. > :21:48.came, he got swept away. Q You think you might get swept away as
:21:48. > :22:13.
:22:13. > :22:17.your country becomes a democracy? - Hang on, last point. You say it is
:22:17. > :22:24.irreversible, this move to democracy. How long is it going to
:22:24. > :22:31.take for your country to become a full-fledged democracy and to
:22:31. > :22:35.Qatar... Catch up with the other nations of South East Asia, which