:00:19. > :00:23.or incomplete. Now on BBC News it's To date we go baldly to one of the
:00:23. > :00:26.more bizarre corners of Planet showbiz. It's the international
:00:26. > :00:33.Star Trek convention in London, a magnet for thousands of Trekkies -
:00:33. > :00:36.devotees of the Star trek cult from all over the world. We speak to the
:00:36. > :00:45.veteran Hollywood actor William Shatner who will forever be known
:00:45. > :00:53.to these fans as Captain Kirk of the Starship Enterprise. He has had
:00:53. > :01:03.a career spanning 60 years of highs and lows. How does he feel about
:01:03. > :01:31.
:01:31. > :01:38.William Shona, will come to show marked. -- William Shatner. He
:01:38. > :01:46.we're, the first major tricky Convention in London. I wonder
:01:46. > :01:50.whether you sometimes feel as though you're stuck in a time-warp?
:01:50. > :01:58.I think the British are a little behind the times. The Olympics have
:01:58. > :02:04.come to London and so has Star Trek. When you wish you could have moved
:02:04. > :02:09.on and left Captain Kirk behind? You have this myopic vision that I
:02:09. > :02:16.am Captain Kirk for 36 years. Some other things have happened to me.
:02:16. > :02:23.We came to London, did a talk show. People laughed. There are other
:02:23. > :02:28.things that happen. I know that. I want to talk about that. In these
:02:28. > :02:33.into a moment, like a convention, and you say my life is filled with
:02:33. > :02:41.Captain Kirk. It is not. I go to an occasional Convention. I wanted to
:02:41. > :02:47.come to this one because of its proportions. I am here but Star
:02:47. > :02:52.Trek has pursued me in the way that it has offered me celebrity through
:02:52. > :02:57.which I have done that these other things. I want to talk about the
:02:57. > :03:01.other things. You've done a whole host not just acting by a music as
:03:01. > :03:08.well and different forms of public performance. Before we get into
:03:08. > :03:13.that, if we start with Star Trek. 1966. When you set out on the
:03:13. > :03:23.journey. Did you have a feeling this was going to be big? The sort
:03:23. > :03:27.
:03:27. > :03:37.of TV show that would last? norm in showbusiness is for a year.
:03:37. > :03:38.
:03:38. > :03:45.-- is for a beer. I approach every project as an actor approaches
:03:45. > :03:48.hoping it will be decent and people will like it. The concept of a 46
:03:48. > :03:52.years later talking about it, a soap for removed from reality will
:03:53. > :03:58.be judged insane and have to be struck down if he were to say I
:03:58. > :04:03.have just had a vision - these pilots I am making, 50 years from
:04:03. > :04:10.now, I'm going to be in London with over 30,000 people coming partially
:04:10. > :04:18.to say hello to me. It is insanity. No. The best thing you could hope
:04:18. > :04:23.for it is a renewal. They gamine 13 weeks segments in the US. You do
:04:24. > :04:30.the first 13 and you hope for a kicker. Will they pick up the next
:04:30. > :04:34.13. Will they pick up the second. And by the third you, they did not
:04:35. > :04:42.pick it up for a fourth. It was great, I loved the people. It was
:04:42. > :04:50.done. You say you love it at that time. I want to try to get you go
:04:50. > :04:54.back to 1966 - 1968. People analyse start mack, so many messages they
:04:55. > :05:00.read it in to it. What are the creators of the show did with it.
:05:00. > :05:07.When you look at this group and you looked at, for example, the Inter
:05:07. > :05:12.racial caste, the messengers to some he gave about the civil rights
:05:12. > :05:19.movement and about the Cold War, did you read that in Tweet at the
:05:19. > :05:28.time? Those messengers were there. Star Trek is alive today for many
:05:28. > :05:33.reasons. All of them ballot. In a recent documentary, I discovered a
:05:33. > :05:40.more basic reason that I hadn't thought. One of the reasons it has
:05:40. > :05:44.continued to be popular is the best start tracks have an underlying
:05:44. > :05:52.philosophy. There was a way of dramatising things now happening at
:05:52. > :05:57.the time they were salient at that time, using science fiction as a
:05:57. > :06:02.means of conveying a message. were the key issues that Star Trek
:06:02. > :06:12.is addressing? It could be anything. He could be a man woman
:06:12. > :06:14.
:06:14. > :06:21.relationship. It could be sexual, social, the black-and-white
:06:21. > :06:26.question, armaments race, Russia and America, at it does best, you
:06:26. > :06:34.could say, is that about the future or the present underlying
:06:34. > :06:40.everything. Those were the best start tracks. Those were the
:06:41. > :06:46.episode I 0.2 were not only humane and exciting as an adventure story
:06:46. > :06:48.but had an underlying meaning. Those were the best stories anyway.
:06:49. > :06:56.There is one incident that sticks in many people's mind because it
:06:56. > :07:03.made a little bit of television history - the keys between you and
:07:03. > :07:08.the lieutenant, who I should say, she is an African-American woman.
:07:08. > :07:15.It was a queues which was many shocking at the time. At that time
:07:15. > :07:22.50 years ago, the context was different. In certain places in the
:07:22. > :07:26.US. Not every plays. In the 60s there was a lot of contention going
:07:26. > :07:33.on. Yes, I kissed the beautiful girl who happen to be a different
:07:33. > :07:40.colour than me. But she was a beautiful woman. And, yes, the
:07:40. > :07:44.character was forced to, by these god-like creature to kiss her. It
:07:44. > :07:53.was not like I grabbed her defying convention. There were a lot of
:07:53. > :07:58.interesting layers of things going on. Some stations, television
:07:58. > :08:04.stations, in the US, particularly in the south, where there was a
:08:04. > :08:12.great deal of turmoil going on, did not play that episode at the time.
:08:12. > :08:17.That is true. But far more, I think, has been made of it than actually...
:08:17. > :08:23.You in your mid-30s, will you highly politicised, we used signing
:08:23. > :08:33.up to the messengers that they were putting into the show because you
:08:33. > :08:35.
:08:35. > :08:44.were there yourself politically? Absolutely. Everybody has a little
:08:44. > :08:47.colour that is going on. In my case, I am a comedian. There was no
:08:47. > :08:57.question of black and white in the States was not my question. I never
:08:57. > :09:01.
:09:01. > :09:11.any of those layers in my life growing up. I was colour-blind. I
:09:11. > :09:18.was aware, in fact, had made a move in the south at that time about the
:09:18. > :09:24.integration of schools and now lives were threatened. Essentially,
:09:24. > :09:31.I just thought Michelle has a beautiful woman. As we discussed it,
:09:31. > :09:37.there was so much of a message about the need for co-operation and
:09:37. > :09:41.a unity amongst the crew of the enterprise to make it impossible to
:09:42. > :09:47.overcome the challenge us in deep space and yet, as I read it, at the
:09:47. > :09:52.time, in those three years of making the first Star Trek series,
:09:52. > :10:01.there were lots of attention going on in the cast. Not within the cast.
:10:01. > :10:07.At that time, no. We're talking about my awareness. A man who
:10:07. > :10:13.became a great friend later, he said at the time it was like
:10:13. > :10:19.sibling rivalry. After a few weeks, they were getting messages saying
:10:19. > :10:24.they were seeing more of spot. -- Spock. That could be a problem for
:10:24. > :10:30.the leading man, you do not like it so much. It was not there at the
:10:30. > :10:35.delighted, I did not understand. Here was a acting my heart out and
:10:35. > :10:42.they were asking for more of the guy of the pointy ears. So, I, as
:10:42. > :10:49.an actor, did not understand. was you ego kicking him? My ego and
:10:49. > :10:55.why is that happening. Leonard me Mollie is a wonderful man and over
:10:55. > :11:05.many years, if we're talking about the free use of the series, I
:11:05. > :11:09.
:11:09. > :11:18.cannot recall anything more than an occasional moment of anxiety. My
:11:18. > :11:24.recollection is extraordinarily friendly. You must have been aware
:11:24. > :11:30.that other cast members, afterwards suggested, to be polite, you had a
:11:30. > :11:35.big ego and were somewhat insecure about others giddy the limelight?
:11:35. > :11:42.That is their interpretation. Michelle and George were people who
:11:42. > :11:49.came in for a day, maybe, in a week of ten days of shooting, they were
:11:49. > :11:53.not there very often. After the show was over, and it became
:11:53. > :11:58.popular, they would go to conventions like these and suddenly
:11:58. > :12:06.begin to realise, you know, I should have had my own show. Then
:12:06. > :12:10.they began to write books about my ego. I do not have an ego. The
:12:10. > :12:15.thing I'm most proud of his my professionalism and my ability to
:12:15. > :12:20.work with people. I never had, in three years of association with
:12:20. > :12:27.them, I never had a bad word with any of them. But especially with
:12:27. > :12:34.George and McQualter. It was only used later -- and water. Was only
:12:34. > :12:40.years later when I discovered not make a was writing a book, and I
:12:40. > :12:48.interview George and I went to his house, his a barman a beautiful
:12:48. > :12:52.apartment. We spoke well. Nothing untoward happen. And then I went on
:12:52. > :12:56.to Michelle and went to her house and interviewed her for the ball. I
:12:56. > :13:02.finish this Lovely interview and I go up to leave and she said, this
:13:02. > :13:08.is years later, and you wanna know how much we hated you? Excuse me, I
:13:08. > :13:12.sat back down and included it in my book. I was shot. They may have had
:13:12. > :13:19.days feelings then, they never express them and not for years
:13:19. > :13:24.afterwards. You talk about the way a series took off, long after you
:13:24. > :13:28.stop making the original shows. In the 70s and 80s, the amount of
:13:28. > :13:36.interest that developed in the characters, the actors, was in
:13:36. > :13:40.numbers. At the height in the 80s, there were 300 Convention the year.
:13:40. > :13:45.Devoted to starch it. Did you at some point sate yourself, I cannot
:13:46. > :13:55.handle this. This is becoming something that is beyond... I did
:13:55. > :14:00.not go to those conventions. In the beginning, I thought, that is not
:14:01. > :14:08.what actors do. So I did not go. Then, when I heard 15,000 people
:14:08. > :14:12.would come at a time I thought, I'd better find out what is going on.
:14:12. > :14:18.Then, the idea of standing in front of 15,000 people and not have any
:14:18. > :14:25.prepared material to at least, like you and I am doing, became somewhat
:14:25. > :14:30.overwhelming until I became used to it. I would go to an occasional
:14:30. > :14:36.Convention but not to that 300 or 400. I know it was a sketch show
:14:36. > :14:41.and it was supposed to be funny but was that a grain of truth when he
:14:41. > :14:47.said in Saturday Night Live he did once say to the fans, the Trekkies,
:14:47. > :14:54.to get a life, for crying out loud, it is only a television show?
:14:54. > :14:58.was meant to be fun. And, in fact, I wrote a book examining the people
:14:58. > :15:03.who came to the convention and I recently directed a documentary
:15:03. > :15:08.which I called, and get a life in which I make these discoveries
:15:08. > :15:14.about why people go to these conventions. People, interview was
:15:14. > :15:20.over the years have said, what is the reason for the continuing
:15:20. > :15:28.popularity of Star Trek and at first I would make a joke and say
:15:28. > :15:38.it was me and then go on to the underlying story - action and
:15:38. > :15:39.
:15:39. > :15:47.adventure and science fiction and It is interesting to compare
:15:47. > :15:52.Captain Kirk, in the early shows he was courageous, on top of every
:15:52. > :15:57.problem, he was immensely impressive, in the end things
:15:57. > :16:01.worked out. In your own life after Star Trek he had some real
:16:02. > :16:07.difficulties. In the 70s when the show was not being picked up in the
:16:07. > :16:12.early days, you have described how your life became very tough. You're
:16:12. > :16:22.not getting work. You were living without a permanent home for a
:16:22. > :16:23.
:16:23. > :16:28.while? How did that work for you? am willing to talk about that.
:16:28. > :16:33.had been a leading man, you had the adulation that came with all of
:16:33. > :16:39.that. If found a period of trough in your career where it went down
:16:39. > :16:47.head. -- you found. After Star Trek was cancelled and I had been
:16:47. > :16:53.divorced. I had three kids to sustain. I was working, I have
:16:54. > :17:03.always worked as an actor. But the pay, as light as it was back then
:17:04. > :17:04.
:17:04. > :17:12.compare it to now, come there was not a great deal of money. --
:17:12. > :17:22.compared. There was no money coming in. I had a lot of expenses. Indeed,
:17:22. > :17:23.
:17:23. > :17:31.I went out and I went to summer theatres for vacation audiences.
:17:31. > :17:37.You lift out the back of your truck? Yes, I did. How do I relate
:17:37. > :17:43.that to been popular on television? The real and constant insecurity of
:17:43. > :17:52.the actor. You do not really know where you are going. Absolutely.
:17:52. > :17:58.That was a dichotomy for me. Having come off as the leading man of a
:17:58. > :18:07.series and then be homeless, absolutely. If we fast-forward
:18:07. > :18:10.through the extraordinary highs and lows, including Emmy Awards.
:18:10. > :18:20.Playing a character who many would argue is not dissimilar to were
:18:20. > :18:30.
:18:30. > :18:39.William Shatner. You became a spokesman for an internet...
:18:39. > :18:44.Priceline.com. You are still working on it. That actor's
:18:44. > :18:49.insecurity, as it always been with you? Absolutely. Some actors have
:18:49. > :18:53.told me they are very choosy about the parts they play. They have to
:18:53. > :18:58.consider their brand. I do not understand that. I do not
:18:59. > :19:04.understand that thinking. We are so out of control of what our life is.
:19:04. > :19:11.The actor might think I'm going to choose this role because it has the
:19:11. > :19:17.elements... As we say, failure is more the norm. The high-minded
:19:17. > :19:24.strategy does not work. There are some roles that you look back on
:19:24. > :19:33.and you think, my God, I wish I had not done that? Absolutely. Many
:19:33. > :19:43.things. Maybe even most things I wish I had not had to do. But that
:19:43. > :19:46.is not the way a working actor does it. You struggle to make something
:19:46. > :19:52.better than it is because you are bringing yourself to it. That is
:19:52. > :19:58.always a struggle. Some things turn out to be worse than they look at
:19:58. > :20:03.first glance. Some things turn out to be better. You cannot forecast.
:20:03. > :20:08.Some of the most dire things I was in turned out to be popular. I
:20:08. > :20:14.could not understand it. Some element that you never saw. When
:20:14. > :20:19.you do a play, when you play in front of an audience for the first
:20:19. > :20:24.time, there are laughs, reactions, that you would not have guessed.
:20:24. > :20:30.You cannot foretell what is going to be successful. What you seem to
:20:30. > :20:34.have developed, what has been a massive hit around the world, this
:20:34. > :20:39.sort of knowing, slightly self- mocking sense you have, you know
:20:39. > :20:45.people see as were William Shatner and partly that is related to
:20:45. > :20:51.Captain Kirk, it is a rather noble and grand image. Yet, nowadays you
:20:51. > :20:56.play with that. You market at the same time as living it. I am not
:20:56. > :21:00.living it or mocking it. You have asked to sit down and talk to me
:21:00. > :21:04.because we are at a Star Trek convention. I'm doing the Captain
:21:04. > :21:11.Kirk thing because that is what you are here to see. The Captain Kirk
:21:11. > :21:21.thing is me. I am also a guy who has lived here is beyond that and
:21:21. > :21:25.have the experience and time and thoughts of 50 years. -- years. If
:21:25. > :21:29.I did not have that experience, I would be a miserable human being.
:21:29. > :21:34.You are not frightened to do things that some would regard as risky?
:21:34. > :21:39.I'm thinking of your follies into rock and roll and making music?
:21:39. > :21:46.That is true. I love music and I have always wanted to be able to
:21:46. > :21:55.sing, I can't. Some people said, most recently a television show,
:21:55. > :22:00.they want to use common people, which I did as one of the cover
:22:00. > :22:07.songs on an album I did, they want to use it in their show because
:22:07. > :22:14.they said it was the best version of it. I did a rock'n'roll song.
:22:15. > :22:21.Common People. Some people think it has some quality to it. You do not
:22:21. > :22:25.worry whether people are laughing at you all with you? I cannot
:22:25. > :22:32.control that. Sometimes I'm doing it as a joke, sometimes I'm not
:22:32. > :22:36.doing it as a joke. Doing it as a joke is a bit hard. Sometimes I am
:22:36. > :22:40.playing with it, sometimes I am not playing with it. You are still
:22:40. > :22:45.working on a whole bunch of different projects. You are still
:22:45. > :22:51.planning to take on a one-man show in the US, you have done it on
:22:51. > :23:00.Broadway. Son told him I do it in London. It is fantastically
:23:00. > :23:03.grovelling. -- some talk. Won by five hours on stage, on urine, at
:23:03. > :23:13.what point with you consider withdrawing from the very public
:23:13. > :23:13.
:23:13. > :23:19.life? 1.5 hours. You know how your breath rattles when you take your
:23:19. > :23:22.last... Just then. You have had some very difficult times. You had
:23:22. > :23:28.to live through the loss of your third life, who was found drowned
:23:28. > :23:38.in your home Simeon Bull in the US. You wrote a song about that. --
:23:38. > :23:43.
:23:44. > :23:49.swimming pool. Had he said, it is time to withdraw? I would miss it
:23:49. > :23:55.talking to you. -- have you said. Had he enjoyed this few moments?
:23:55. > :24:00.find it fascinating. Why would I want to give that up? You can leave
:24:00. > :24:07.your life on stage and find your own personal path at the same time?
:24:07. > :24:11.Live. My life on the stage, on film, wherever it is is part of my life.
:24:12. > :24:18.There is a vast other parts I sometimes share with the public,
:24:18. > :24:28.sometimes I do not. It has to do with children, love, dogs, horses,
:24:28. > :24:30.