:00:07. > :00:17.defending his sprinting titles. Now, HARDtalk is on the road in
:00:17. > :00:35.
:00:35. > :00:41.Hard Talk is on the Road in Equatorial Guinea. A tiny, oil rich
:00:41. > :00:44.nation in West Africa. Thence to the oil bonanza, it has one of the
:00:44. > :00:49.fastest-growing economies in the whole of Africa but it is also
:00:49. > :00:52.rated one of the most corrupt and unequal countries on the planet. At
:00:53. > :00:58.the centre of the extraordinary story is President Teodoro Obiang.
:00:58. > :01:08.The question is, when we'll we'll change come up to one of Africa's
:01:08. > :01:18.
:01:18. > :01:25.most notorious regimes? -- when Hot, humid and largely hidden from
:01:25. > :01:28.prying eyes. Equatorial Guinea is a nation of just three-quarters of a
:01:28. > :01:38.million people. Split between an island capital and a sparsely
:01:38. > :01:39.
:01:39. > :01:45.inhabited mainland. The President of styles himself as an African
:01:45. > :01:54.statesman. A father to his people. In reality, he, his family and his
:01:54. > :01:58.ruling party have kept an iron grip on this country for 33 years.
:01:58. > :02:05.Foreign journalists are rarely granted visas. This is not a regime
:02:06. > :02:12.that invites scrutiny. During our visit, we were required to travel
:02:12. > :02:20.in a government in the bus. The minder from the ministry was a
:02:20. > :02:24.constant companion. This is the face Equatorial Guinea presents to
:02:24. > :02:31.visitors. This resort, a few kilometres from the coast of the
:02:31. > :02:36.capital, was built to host an African Union summit. It was the
:02:36. > :02:42.President's chance to burnish his image. But now, the Convention
:02:42. > :02:51.Centre, the hotel and beach resort, the grand boulevards, are all
:02:51. > :02:58.deserted. And most eerie of all, the NT villas. Built for Africa's
:02:58. > :03:08.52 heads of state. -- NT. A sprawling monument to presidential
:03:08. > :03:12.
:03:12. > :03:20.This is the Equatorial Guinea outsiders rarely visit. More than
:03:20. > :03:24.half the population lives on $1 a day or less. The UN thinks life-
:03:25. > :03:34.expectancy is in the low 50s. An infant mortality is amongst the
:03:34. > :03:40.highest in Africa. --. In the country's second city, this man, a
:03:40. > :03:49.baker, told me of his daily reality. No piped water, week electricity
:03:49. > :03:56.and roads that are impassable when it rains. In Equatorial Guinea,
:03:56. > :04:01.fear permeates all discussion of politics. The regime has a grim
:04:01. > :04:07.record of suppressing opposition. Which is why this young man
:04:07. > :04:12.insisted on anonymity before he would talk. All of your life, you
:04:12. > :04:19.have known only one President. That is President Teodoro Obiang. What
:04:19. > :04:23.are your feelings about him? TRANSLATION: The people of
:04:23. > :04:28.Equatorial Guinea are suffering. Everything is very wrong here. All
:04:28. > :04:33.of the oil money and blogging mind is taken by the President's family.
:04:33. > :04:37.Other than party members, nobody else is allowed to make money.
:04:37. > :04:41.people in this country know that the President and his family are
:04:41. > :04:46.worth tens, hundreds of millions of dollars? TRANSLATION: People here
:04:46. > :04:51.know what is happening but nobody can say anything. No-one can put
:04:51. > :04:55.their hand up and say, this is bad. You just can't do that. It would be
:04:55. > :05:01.a mistake to do that. Not like in a liberal democracy where people can
:05:01. > :05:04.say what they want. But if you do that, what happens? The secret
:05:04. > :05:09.police will come to arrest you. Nobody would know. Your family
:05:09. > :05:14.would not be able to find you. If you live alone, you would just
:05:14. > :05:21.disappear. Many people have disappeared. It sounds to me as
:05:21. > :05:28.though you feel very angry and very powerless, helpless, in this
:05:28. > :05:32.situation? TRANSLATION: I feel angry and I am not alone. Sometimes,
:05:32. > :05:42.as young people sit and discuss things. None of us can see any good
:05:42. > :05:43.
:05:43. > :05:49.in the things that are happening. There have been attempts to
:05:49. > :05:55.overthrow President mac. The most infamous was laid by a British
:05:56. > :06:01.nursery. -- the President. Back by money, the son of the former
:06:01. > :06:06.British prime minister. Since the foiled coup in 2004, the President
:06:06. > :06:16.has routinely labelled internal dissidents as coup plotters and
:06:16. > :06:21.agents of foreign powers. This man is currently Equatorial Guinea's
:06:21. > :06:29.only opposition MP. We met him outside the country to escape the
:06:29. > :06:33.attentions of the government's minders. Welcome to HARDtalk. You,
:06:33. > :06:38.surely, have one of the toughest political jobs in the world. Just
:06:38. > :06:48.how difficult is it to try to lead an opposition movement inside
:06:48. > :06:49.
:06:49. > :07:38.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 49 seconds
:07:38. > :07:43.How big a factor is fear? You know what prison is like in Equatorial
:07:43. > :07:53.Guinea. People see that and they think, if they join the opposition,
:07:53. > :07:53.
:07:53. > :09:05.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 49 seconds
:09:05. > :09:08.if they express discontent, they I suppose President Teodoro
:09:08. > :09:13.Obiang's point would be that you were imprisoned but he would say
:09:13. > :09:17.things have changed a great deal since then. He has launched his
:09:17. > :09:24.ten-year programme of reform. He says he is committed to
:09:24. > :09:30.transparency, to human rights and to democracy. You are now the
:09:30. > :09:35.official opposition MP in the parliament. He tolerate opposition.
:09:35. > :09:45.He says that, right now, Equatorial Guinea is on a clear path to
:09:45. > :09:45.
:09:45. > :11:01.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 49 seconds
:11:01. > :11:06.Let me ask you this. If the investor nations, particularly the
:11:06. > :11:10.rich Western nations, took a different attitude to him, if they
:11:10. > :11:20.put real pressure on him and his government to respect human rights,
:11:20. > :11:49.
:11:49. > :11:55.For all the criticism aimed at the regime, it does not face
:11:55. > :12:02.international isolation. China has moved in, with massive
:12:02. > :12:12.infrastructure investment. Here, we found a Chinese company laying
:12:12. > :12:15.
:12:15. > :12:21.electricity lines in a city. It's a very big project. Yes. I think it's
:12:21. > :12:28.a very big programme and we will finish. How long will it take?
:12:28. > :12:37.Maybe 2015. 2014. The whole job is going to finish. How many Chinese
:12:37. > :12:46.workers are here on this one project? For now, maybe 500 for 600.
:12:46. > :12:52.What is the feeling of the local people towards you? Most of them is
:12:52. > :12:58.friendly. But some guys... I don't know what they think. You have a
:12:58. > :13:05.problem with some people? Yes. But everything is OK. We can keep going.
:13:05. > :13:09.We can go on, no problem. For you, as a Chinese citizen and a Chinese
:13:09. > :13:14.worker, it seems there are many opportunities right now in
:13:14. > :13:21.Equatorial Guinea. Many jobs, a lot of work. It's a good place to come
:13:21. > :13:31.if you are Chinese? Yes. Yes, it is true. More and more Chinese are
:13:31. > :13:36.
:13:36. > :13:46.Payback for China comes in the form of access to precious war material.
:13:46. > :13:47.
:13:47. > :13:51.-- raw. Like Equatorial Guinea's hardwood timber. Swathes of the
:13:51. > :13:57.country's rainforest are being cut down to satisfied China's
:13:57. > :14:07.insatiable demand. This vessel was preparing to take 30,000 tonnes of
:14:07. > :14:13.Lords to Shanghai. -- logs. This is what it economy is about.
:14:13. > :14:17.Exploiting and exporting natural resources. The timber trade is
:14:17. > :14:23.worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And it is no secret that
:14:23. > :14:29.much of the profit goes directly into the pockets of the ruling
:14:29. > :14:33.family. And it is no coincidence that for years, the present's son
:14:33. > :14:43.served as the minister of forestry. And his father gave him the right
:14:43. > :14:50.to vast areas of this country's Its the oil and gas business that
:14:50. > :15:00.has really transformed equatorial Guinea's economy. The country is
:15:00. > :15:00.
:15:00. > :15:06.the third biggest producer in sub- Saharan Africa. This is the huge
:15:06. > :15:12.punter Europa processing plant near the capital. Here they produce
:15:12. > :15:17.almost 4 million tonnes of liquid natural gas every year. The vast
:15:17. > :15:22.majority of oil and gas production in equatorial Guinea is done by
:15:22. > :15:28.American companies. And they funnel many millions of dollars a year
:15:28. > :15:33.into the coffers of the regime. What happens to that money? Well
:15:33. > :15:43.that's a question now being asked by investigators working for the US
:15:43. > :15:44.
:15:44. > :15:54.The President's first son is at the centre of many of the allegations
:15:54. > :16:01.
:16:01. > :16:07.The notorious for his playboy lifestyle and extravagant shopping
:16:07. > :16:17.habits, he's seen his Paris mansion and his fleet of luxury cars seized
:16:17. > :16:19.
:16:19. > :16:23.by the French authorities. The US government is also going after
:16:23. > :16:29.property, a private jet, even a $2 million collection of Michael
:16:29. > :16:38.Jackson memorabilia... Or acquired with cash allegedly diverted from
:16:38. > :16:43.the state. -- all. Some of equatorial Guinea's oil wealth is
:16:43. > :16:49.being spent at home, but on projects which raised questions
:16:49. > :16:54.about the President's priorities. This vast construction side carved
:16:54. > :17:00.out of the country's jungle interior is just one part of an
:17:00. > :17:04.ambitious multi-billion-dollar plan to build a new capital city. --
:17:05. > :17:11.sight. This has to be one of the most extraordinary construction
:17:11. > :17:17.projects I have ever seen. I'm on the roof of a 450 room five-star
:17:17. > :17:22.luxury hotel, that comes complete with a full-size theatre, a
:17:22. > :17:29.convention centre, and cast out of The Jungle, an 18 ho
:17:29. > :17:36.golf course. -- carved. Just down the road, a new university is
:17:36. > :17:44.taking shape. The plan is to make it the finest in central and west
:17:44. > :17:48.Africa. A magnet for 8000 students. But in a tiny country with a poor
:17:48. > :17:57.record in primary and secondary education, will reality ever match
:17:57. > :18:02.the ambition? Vicente, welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. How much, from
:18:02. > :18:06.beginning to completion, is this university project, let alone the
:18:06. > :18:13.whole city, but this university project, going to cost? I'd say
:18:13. > :18:19.it's about EUR200 million. To what extent is this project driven by
:18:19. > :18:24.the ambition, by the vision, the personal obsession, of the
:18:24. > :18:31.President and his family? President has been here many times.
:18:31. > :18:36.He is behind the project 100%. He's really the one driving the whole
:18:36. > :18:41.thing on. This being one of the first projects of the whole city,
:18:41. > :18:46.we are a symbol of everything that's going to come. If we're
:18:46. > :18:50.honest about it, this is a massive vanity project for him, isn't it?
:18:51. > :18:57.If you think how for example Brazil here was done, I'm sure they said
:18:57. > :19:03.the same thing. But Brazil has a population of 180 million or so,
:19:03. > :19:07.this country has made the 700,000 people. Do they really need a
:19:07. > :19:11.university that could house 8000 students? They were already got a
:19:11. > :19:15.university, they've got at least two University's. You have got to
:19:15. > :19:20.dream and if you've got the means, why not. Why not drive the country
:19:20. > :19:23.forward and bring people from neighbouring countries here.
:19:23. > :19:28.group is, most people in this country don't even get a decent
:19:28. > :19:34.secondary education. How could they possibly come to this state of the
:19:34. > :19:40.Art University? -- truth. That has to do with the way things are done
:19:40. > :19:49.in Africa generally. I think the priorities don't have to make any
:19:49. > :19:54.sense to us. But the results are here. Maybe they are not in the
:19:54. > :20:01.proper order and they should do some other things first. Thanks to
:20:01. > :20:05.oil, the President has access to vast wealth. Now he craves respect.
:20:05. > :20:12.He's spent millions on international public relations. His
:20:12. > :20:22.record, he insists, stands up to scrutiny. President, welcome to
:20:22. > :20:24.
:20:24. > :20:29.HARDtalk. Thank you. Mr President. There are investigators and legal
:20:29. > :20:32.officials in the United States, in France, who have looked at the way
:20:32. > :20:36.in which the state finances have been handled in this country, and
:20:36. > :20:41.they have reached some very negative conclusions. Legal
:20:41. > :20:47.documents in the United States refer to, and this is a direct
:20:47. > :20:51.quote, "And ongoing family criminal conspiracy", referring to you and
:20:51. > :21:01.your family and your handling of the oil revenues in this country.
:21:01. > :21:40.
:21:40. > :21:47.The French government has seized the Paris mansion, the art works,
:21:47. > :21:53.the cars, and is seeking legal action against your son. Are you
:21:53. > :22:03.prepared to see your son go to Paris and defend himself and his
:22:03. > :22:03.
:22:03. > :22:58.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 49 seconds
:22:58. > :23:02.Leave aside France, what do you say to the people in your own country,
:23:02. > :23:11.and I have spoken to some of them, who say that you and your family
:23:11. > :23:21.have stolen, stolen, the resources and the assets that rightfully
:23:21. > :23:43.
:23:43. > :23:47.belong to all the people of this I have been very struck, because
:23:47. > :23:52.I've travelled around your country, the number of infrastructure
:23:52. > :24:02.projects, building projects, which are being run and financed by a
:24:02. > :24:36.
:24:36. > :24:42.Chinese companies. And the state of A final question, Mr President.
:24:42. > :24:52.You're already one of the longest serving leader is in the world
:24:52. > :25:20.
:25:20. > :25:24.today. But I also wonder how long In the heart of The Jungle, they've
:25:24. > :25:31.laid out the wide avenues that will be the arteries of equatorial