:00:14. > :00:18.Those are the headlines. It is now Welcome to HARDtalk. From engaging
:00:18. > :00:23.child actor to best director at Cairns, he has been a darling of
:00:23. > :00:26.French cinema for 30 years. Now he says, I am out of this country, and
:00:26. > :00:31.it is nothing to do with taxes. Frustrated with an industry that
:00:31. > :00:35.was indifferent to his latest film all with the politicians to furnish
:00:35. > :00:39.some of his least appealing characters. Or could it be the
:00:39. > :00:43.French themselves to have annoyed at Mathieu Kassovitz? His latest
:00:43. > :00:53.film inspired by real events he thinks should shame France
:00:53. > :01:03.attracted an audience there of just 150,000 people. As he tired -- has
:01:03. > :01:09.
:01:09. > :01:17.he tired of France or have the Mathieu Kassovitz, welcome to
:01:17. > :01:21.HARDtalk. When you film was released in France, the events it
:01:21. > :01:29.portrays were already 20 years old. Why did you want to make it?
:01:29. > :01:34.Because it is a non-story and it is a very special story with so many
:01:34. > :01:40.symbols that can relate to what is going on in the world right now and
:01:40. > :01:46.the way the world is shaped. I thought it was very important not
:01:46. > :01:54.to forget about it. The story that we heard was not a true story. It
:01:54. > :02:00.was also about trying to tell the truth. You saw it as a way of
:02:00. > :02:03.correcting the historical record? It is something that we heard about
:02:03. > :02:10.and then we discovered that there was another story which is totally
:02:10. > :02:13.the opposite. It is a government like, so we need to expose it.
:02:13. > :02:19.events portrayed are in New Caledonia, one of the former
:02:20. > :02:24.colonies of France. It is a hostage taking situation where the
:02:24. > :02:31.character you play, the lead character, feels that he could have
:02:31. > :02:36.got a peaceful outcome because it is the eve of the 1988 French
:02:36. > :02:43.election. The military go in and the police kill him and there is
:02:43. > :02:49.Blanchard. Since then quite a lot has changed in New Caledonia. We
:02:49. > :02:54.are moving towards a referendum perhaps as soon as next year. Would
:02:54. > :03:02.you not reopening old wounds? was the question, but actually the
:03:02. > :03:07.purpose of the film was to find closure. Closure for the New
:03:07. > :03:15.Caledonian said the people from the army and the politicians. We went
:03:15. > :03:20.together everybody around a project that could start discussions. -- we
:03:20. > :03:28.wanted to gather. Everybody is talking about their own experiences
:03:28. > :03:32.and they don't really know what happened. That is what we brought.
:03:32. > :03:40.It didn't open all winter at all. For then it is a way to find
:03:40. > :03:44.closure in the story that they carry. The son of the main
:03:44. > :03:50.kidnapper said it was not polite and it was on respectful to make
:03:50. > :03:56.this film. -- disrespectful. Then we knew that you intend to film in
:03:56. > :04:00.New Caledonia, one of the politicians wrote to support your
:04:00. > :04:04.application, but he said the film promotes strong reluctance among
:04:04. > :04:07.the population of New Caledonia. He warned of the impact of choosing
:04:08. > :04:13.such a sensitive topic at a particularly crucial period in the
:04:13. > :04:17.peace process. The people do not think you helped at all. That was
:04:17. > :04:22.before the movie was released. Then they saw it and they realised...
:04:23. > :04:27.They were scared that I was going to do a very controversial movie.
:04:27. > :04:34.It is not controversial at all. It is a very balanced movie that tries
:04:34. > :04:36.to get as close to reality as possible. Controversial in some of
:04:36. > :04:43.the characters you portrayed? Controversial in the eyes of the
:04:43. > :04:47.people who were actually there. When they see that there is a movie
:04:47. > :04:54.coming up about that story, they think it is controversial for them.
:04:54. > :04:59.They make it controversial by We're trying to get to the truth.
:04:59. > :05:09.Is no controversy in the way the portrayed it and the way you have
:05:09. > :05:10.
:05:10. > :05:13.taken the character? -- isn't there. One of the police commanders said
:05:13. > :05:21.he didn't speak to any of them. The film is based solely on your
:05:21. > :05:29.character's words. For ten years we went to see everybody. Everybody
:05:29. > :05:35.who wanted to talk to worse. We went to see the MacGill c 80. --
:05:35. > :05:40.negotiator. We went and spoke to his colleagues. I went to see
:05:40. > :05:50.everybody. We had to cross information to realise if it was
:05:50. > :05:55.
:05:55. > :05:59.journalistic investigation. Four of the characters issued a joint
:05:59. > :06:08.statement in 2011 saying it is a fiction, not a historical
:06:08. > :06:11.reconstruction of the facts. Another one of them, a magistrate,
:06:11. > :06:16.wrote, I don't blame Mathieu Kassovitz for mixing fact and
:06:16. > :06:23.fiction and for giving the hero of the film, I do blame him, however,
:06:23. > :06:30.for saying he wanted to get closer to the truth. We are putting 150
:06:30. > :06:34.years, plus ten days of drama, into two hours. We called him for years.
:06:34. > :06:40.He never answered. He didn't want to talk about it. He is close to
:06:40. > :06:46.the knitters cuter. We are trying to get as close to reality, but we
:06:46. > :06:52.are making a two-hour movie and we had to constrain reality to our
:06:52. > :07:02.formats. It is a drama, it is a movie, but it is the ballast
:07:02. > :07:07.reality of the political truth. Maybe we said that he didn't say --
:07:07. > :07:12.said something that he didn't say in reality, but for the history and
:07:12. > :07:15.how we can sum it up, it is very close to what happened. The
:07:15. > :07:25.political evidence is close. I had a run-in wi?I ? a run-in wi we
:07:25. > :07:26.
:07:26. > :07:30.Portree in the movie -- portray. And the minister who is partially
:07:30. > :07:34.responsible for what happened. They came to me and said my foot --
:07:34. > :07:44.movie is not telling the truth and that it is fiction. I asked them if
:07:44. > :07:46.
:07:46. > :07:55.they could be more specific, but To quote him directly from back in
:07:55. > :08:00.November, 2011, he said, a day - that is the President and the Prime
:08:00. > :08:07.Minister - gave the order to launch the assault because the life of the
:08:07. > :08:16.people was at stake. He is saying that your scepticism about politics
:08:16. > :08:20.has seeped into your telling of the story. Maybe, but the problem is
:08:20. > :08:25.that that is the way politics works. If that was the only time the
:08:25. > :08:29.government would by and do something for political reasons,
:08:29. > :08:33.you could accept it, but that is the way it works. That is the way
:08:33. > :08:39.it was. I don't know why it went like that. I don't know if it was a
:08:39. > :08:45.fight between these guys, but the result is there. When people come
:08:46. > :08:54.to me and say my film is part a son and going towards the rebels, if
:08:54. > :09:00.you look at the police statement, at the end 19 people got killed in
:09:00. > :09:08.a military assault. You never have 19 deaths when you have a military
:09:08. > :09:14.assault. Everybody was dead. People were executed. When you talk to the
:09:14. > :09:18.professionals, the negotiators, we found solutions, but they wanted
:09:19. > :09:21.to go to war. The audience can make up their mind when they see the
:09:21. > :09:29.film. It is getting an international worthies at the
:09:29. > :09:33.moment. It opens in Britain very soon. It received one nomination at
:09:33. > :09:39.what is considered the French equivalent of the Oscars, but
:09:39. > :09:42.received no awards. Only 150,000 French people went to see it. Last
:09:42. > :09:45.year you said he found it unfortunate that the French film
:09:45. > :09:50.industry does not recognise that this film is important. There were
:09:51. > :09:54.big hits at the same time your film went out. You also quoted as saying,
:09:54. > :09:58.why should I do a political movie in a country that just wants to
:09:58. > :10:04.have fun and not think. Is that the explanation for the fact that it
:10:04. > :10:11.was a flop. No, maybe the movie was good and -- not good enough. That
:10:11. > :10:19.can be the main reason. It is not about the quality of the movie. I
:10:19. > :10:23.have won awards before, but I never want to get them. I am not keen on
:10:23. > :10:31.that organisation. I do not think it is relevant or interesting.
:10:31. > :10:36.is not a measure of quality. No, it is a measure of being entertaining.
:10:36. > :10:41.Yet to be a part of the show. I told them that I'm not interested.
:10:41. > :10:47.I'm not interested in getting one. I'm not a vexed or anything. I
:10:47. > :10:56.think, especially in France, we are the creator of that art. We
:10:56. > :11:01.reinvented it many times. For many through politics. We are very
:11:01. > :11:09.social. You guys in England took over. You have the most amazing
:11:09. > :11:15.social movie history. All these amazing directors. I will ask you
:11:15. > :11:18.about the politics in a moment and the politics of your first film,
:11:18. > :11:22.which really established you as a director. On this question of what
:11:22. > :11:27.has happened with your latest film in France. The truth is that the
:11:27. > :11:35.audience didn't go and see it. It is not the French film industry.
:11:35. > :11:39.totally understand. I don't know if I would have gone to see that movie
:11:40. > :11:45.because life is not really good right now and people want to wind
:11:45. > :11:52.down we go to the movies. You want to relax when you go to the movies.
:11:52. > :11:56.It is not a relaxing movie. It doesn't feel good. It is something
:11:56. > :11:59.you need to be proactive about and I understand people don't want that.
:11:59. > :12:09.What I am shocked about is that if the industry, because that movie
:12:09. > :12:11.
:12:11. > :12:16.didn't do well, I think the French industry needs to recognise that
:12:16. > :12:21.kind of cinema or else it will disappear. That is why I am shocked.
:12:21. > :12:31.If they don't recognise it, I say no problem. I cannot spend ten
:12:31. > :12:33.
:12:33. > :12:38.years of my life doing political care any more. As much as a film-
:12:38. > :12:44.maker, as much as an actor, that is how you see yourself? A political
:12:44. > :12:47.activist. When I do political movies, yes. When I do movies like
:12:47. > :12:52.that I am an activist. I need recognition not for me as a
:12:52. > :12:59.director or actor, but for the public at -- political statement
:12:59. > :13:04.that we mak?I ? that we mak established you, your first feature
:13:04. > :13:10.film, is a film that had a tremendous impact when it was
:13:10. > :13:15.released in 1995. It has been called your masterpiece. It is a
:13:15. > :13:22.film that portrays in black and white the circumstances and the
:13:22. > :13:32.consequences from a riot in the Paris suburbs. Why do you think it
:13:32. > :13:37.has continued resonance? Because we got touched by grace. The entire
:13:37. > :13:45.crew - sometimes you find the subject so you have to tell, the
:13:45. > :13:51.timing is right. You cannot really control that. Still today I have
:13:51. > :13:55.people coming to me saying the movie changed their life. The
:13:55. > :14:05.entire project for everybody, we got it right. Changed their lives,
:14:05. > :14:07.
:14:07. > :14:12.you said it changed your life. is what they said about the movie.
:14:12. > :14:15.The latest ?I ? The latest up of that. The first was about police
:14:15. > :14:25.brutality, this one is about government brutality. It is just a
:14:25. > :14:27.
:14:27. > :14:34.step up. It is part of what I am as a citizen. If I can put it in my
:14:34. > :14:44.movies. Making movies is complicated enough, so if you can
:14:44. > :14:45.
:14:45. > :14:55.make it important just for you, you need to find projects that are
:14:55. > :15:00.
:15:00. > :15:06.Ten years after, life imitated art. We had events in England a few
:15:06. > :15:13.years after that. Sticking with 2005 and the rights there. He laid
:15:13. > :15:16.the blame at the door of the websites is that as much as I would
:15:16. > :15:22.like to distance myself from politics, it is difficult to remain
:15:22. > :15:32.distant in the face of the deprivations of the politicians. I
:15:32. > :15:40.
:15:40. > :15:49.politicians provoke for no reason and they want the kids to go crazy.
:15:49. > :15:56.Nicholas Sarkozy, when he was Minister of Interior, he went to a
:15:56. > :16:01.project at 10pm with 200 journalists and policemen. The kids,
:16:01. > :16:11.they see that, it is an invasion. They started to throw insults and
:16:11. > :16:13.
:16:13. > :16:18.things like that. The 250 towns and 3,000 injured. Did all those people
:16:18. > :16:25.really have just cause? That was after the death of two children who
:16:25. > :16:34.killed themselves hiding. The politicians said they should not
:16:34. > :16:43.have run. Did that just to fire all the trouble over France? --
:16:43. > :16:47.justified? If you do not respect people, do not expect respect back.
:16:47. > :16:55.When you're a kid in a project, you need to be respected. If you are
:16:55. > :17:00.not respected, you will go nuts. But they still responded. The
:17:00. > :17:06.President at the time said that racism saps the spirit of the
:17:06. > :17:16.Republic. It is not my content. It is the reaction of the kids. It
:17:16. > :17:16.
:17:16. > :17:23.happens. It happens. Kids react. They torch cars. They did not kill
:17:23. > :17:28.anybody. It is just a reaction against the Establishment. It is
:17:28. > :17:37.all about respect. Rebellion is the same story. If you do not respect,
:17:37. > :17:43.you cannot find peace. Is that a justification? I think it is. You
:17:43. > :17:49.cannot be hit that much and not fight back. It was shown several
:17:49. > :17:56.times in the wake of the London riots. In a lot of cities in
:17:56. > :18:01.England. There was also looting. You said that there is political
:18:01. > :18:04.meaning behind it. You do not do that just to get a flat-screen TV.
:18:04. > :18:11.You say it represents the windows of the society that we are living
:18:11. > :18:14.in. A lot of the kids come from poor parts. They did not need a
:18:14. > :18:24.flat-screen TV, they do not even have a reason to be writing or
:18:24. > :18:27.
:18:27. > :18:31.looting. They came from stable homes. I saw that. Things shift
:18:31. > :18:41.from 1995 to what is going on today. They do not write for the same
:18:41. > :18:41.
:18:41. > :18:47.things. The rage is still the same. Some kids are just stupid.
:18:47. > :18:52.mention Nicola Sarkozy. He went on to become president. When Francois
:18:52. > :18:59.Hollande defeated Sarkozy, he said that if he is back for another five
:18:59. > :19:05.years, it would be a tragedy. I cannot see a positive outcome of
:19:05. > :19:15.this situation. A year on, still used will feel that? I am sure that
:19:15. > :19:24.she is going to be next. The right party had somebody to put in front
:19:24. > :19:29.of them. There is no body. I do not think we can take Nicholas Sarkozy.
:19:29. > :19:38.He was a joke. He Childers for five years. That is why he wanted to
:19:38. > :19:48.lead France. He killed the spirit for five years. We are not the same
:19:48. > :19:48.
:19:48. > :19:58.people as I thought we were. We do not fight any more. And why do you
:19:58. > :20:02.
:20:02. > :20:07.want to? I like to pay taxes. But I like to pay taxes for a reason. I
:20:07. > :20:15.want to see it in work. I do not feel that energy in France any more.
:20:15. > :20:21.So you are not worried about the tax reclaimed to ride to produce.
:20:21. > :20:29.- rate like Gerard Depardieu. The problem with France is that we're
:20:29. > :20:37.protecting socialism that we created. A very specific part of
:20:37. > :20:43.socialism. Will there be another reason for you to go? What is the
:20:43. > :20:52.point? If you believe in all these courses, they cost money. I would
:20:52. > :21:02.pay it everything if it was balanced and I knew my money was
:21:02. > :21:05.
:21:05. > :21:09.not used by stupid politicians. could all say that. It is terrible.
:21:09. > :21:16.We have got ministers having to declare their assets. I wonder what
:21:16. > :21:20.you think is driving this suspicion and distrust. 70% of French people
:21:20. > :21:27.think all politicians are corrupt. Including the 62% to voted for
:21:27. > :21:32.President Francois Hollande. Their actions are the actions. If you do
:21:32. > :21:42.not have ethics, do not expect the citizens to have ethics. So they
:21:42. > :21:43.
:21:43. > :21:49.are doing the right things? course, but that is the way it
:21:49. > :21:55.should be. These people should be totally transparent. They are
:21:55. > :22:01.responsible for us. It will never be like that. Do you sympathise
:22:01. > :22:05.with a Gerard Depardieu. Or do you think he is being theatrical?
:22:05. > :22:10.not like the fact that he is going to Vladimir Putin. He is not a
:22:10. > :22:16.clean five. But I understand why he's leaving France. It is not just
:22:16. > :22:21.paying taxes. You want to be proud to be part of the country. I want a
:22:21. > :22:28.President who represents be. I want somebody I can be behind. Just
:22:28. > :22:37.as saying that right and left have no solution. Voting is to show
:22:37. > :22:47.cowardice. What is the alternative? There is a song called burning and
:22:47. > :22:48.
:22:48. > :22:53.looting. At some point, I cannot say that. Another French
:22:53. > :22:57.Revolution? No. But people need to be scared do little bit. If you
:22:57. > :23:04.want to keep them in line, as they need to know that you can kick
:23:04. > :23:11.their houses. If they feel they cannot be touched, then they will
:23:11. > :23:15.not stop doing what they do. observed, today the investigation
:23:15. > :23:25.is up to the cinema to do what the media cannot to because of a lack
:23:25. > :23:36.
:23:36. > :23:41.of resources. It is so there. It is an ongoing movie. Maybe in a few
:23:41. > :23:47.years. Now we know everything. Everything is exposed. Boobies are
:23:47. > :23:56.here to keep the memory. quickly are you reading? --