:00:25. > :00:27.Foreign Minister is here on a visit to London. He said he wanted to
:00:27. > :00:30.rehabilitate Iraq's image after the fall of Saddam Hussein. But now
:00:30. > :00:33.sectarian violence in Iraq is arguably worse than ever before and
:00:33. > :00:35.is overlapping with sectarianism in neighbouring Syria. The Shia led
:00:35. > :00:45.government in Baghdad is accused of discriminating against the Sunni
:00:45. > :00:55.minority and of being too close to Iran. Is Iraq in danger of once
:00:55. > :01:13.
:01:13. > :01:20.to be with you. Thank you. How worried are you that Iraq may return
:01:20. > :01:23.to civil war? There has been many speculation in the media. This is
:01:23. > :01:31.from people who have not visited the country. They are jumping to these
:01:31. > :01:36.conclusions. Being the Minister for the last ten years, the longest
:01:36. > :01:43.serving civil servants in the country, I do not see Iraq is
:01:43. > :01:48.sliding into civil war. Or even sectarian war. Really? Have the
:01:48. > :01:58.British government raised any concerns? They have. Iraq is facing
:01:58. > :02:03.some major security, political, regional challenges. But the country
:02:03. > :02:13.is not going into civil war or sectarian war. Really? April and May
:02:13. > :02:19.unknown, 2500 people killed. You can get blown up anywhere. I agree with
:02:19. > :02:25.you. Recently, that has been an increase of violence and the number
:02:25. > :02:28.of innocent casualties a terrorist groups. This is partly due to the
:02:28. > :02:38.failure of our security service to provide better security for the
:02:38. > :02:45.citizens. But partly also because of the spillover from Syria into Iraq.
:02:45. > :02:50.The continuous crisis in Syria. are acknowledging there is a problem
:02:50. > :02:56.but it is not sectarian violence. There are those who disputed. It is
:02:56. > :03:06.not just commentators. The UN human rights chief, Francesco Motta. This
:03:06. > :03:11.is what he told us. The sectarian viciousness of the attack is worse
:03:11. > :03:17.than the 2006 and 2007 civil war. It is becoming more sectarian. People
:03:17. > :03:22.are being targeted as they leave the places of worship. I disagree with
:03:22. > :03:29.the UN official. That has been an increase in the numbers, and that
:03:29. > :03:35.has been tension between Sunni, Kurds, Shia. But no one is pushing
:03:35. > :03:40.the envelope. No one is pushing things to a confrontation. The
:03:40. > :03:47.cinema people have been part of a demonstration but it has not led to
:03:47. > :03:52.an open conflict. When he says you run is on the cusp of a civil
:03:52. > :04:02.war... Have you spoken to him? will speak with him when I go back
:04:02. > :04:03.
:04:03. > :04:13.to Baghdad. I will give him our point of view. Nevertheless, we add
:04:13. > :04:14.
:04:14. > :04:22.-- we disagree with that assessment. In Iraq, there are many tribes. The
:04:22. > :04:32.Iraqi have tested the school jeers of sectarian and civil war in 2005
:04:32. > :04:33.
:04:33. > :04:40.and 2007. -- disgorges. There is in a self restraint by the politician,
:04:40. > :04:45.the religious leaders, they are discouraging violence. That is why
:04:46. > :04:52.there are a number of restraints. Economically, the country, this has
:04:52. > :04:56.not been reported, has been doing very well. Iraq is the world's
:04:56. > :05:06.deferred biggest oil producer but they cannot buy electricity for a
:05:06. > :05:07.
:05:07. > :05:17.fast number of the population. You say that you see it is a problem of
:05:17. > :05:21.
:05:21. > :05:31.the Xtree must. -- Xtree must. There is accusation of Sydney market
:05:31. > :05:34.
:05:34. > :05:38.shakes of shielding some militants. -- Sunni leaders. There is a danger
:05:38. > :05:45.they may take arms on those who attack them. The production of
:05:45. > :05:55.electricity has been increased. Just to answer about. I agree with you.
:05:55. > :05:57.
:05:57. > :06:07.The cinema have grievances. -- cinema people. -- Sunni. About being
:06:07. > :06:11.
:06:11. > :06:19.marginalised. The Ba'ath Party was the party of Saddam Hussein. He was
:06:19. > :06:24.a Sunni. He favoured the Sunni people. This is happening in Libya,
:06:24. > :06:31.this is happening in Tunisia, even in Egypt. It is not something new.
:06:31. > :06:34.That law has been revised. The good thing about Iraq is that Iraq has
:06:34. > :06:40.established a legal constitutional framework for a addressing its
:06:40. > :06:46.problems. It is through dialogue, and not through conflict. It is a
:06:46. > :06:53.positive thing. Do you think so? Samia Nakhoul sounds like he is
:06:53. > :06:59.going for a military solution. has not -- there is not gone to a
:06:59. > :07:02.military solution. He is always trying to find accommodation. The
:07:02. > :07:11.recent local election was an indication of the viability of the
:07:11. > :07:16.political system. Both the Sunni and Shia participated. We have a general
:07:16. > :07:23.election next year, people are anticipating that they can change
:07:23. > :07:33.their governments. We do not doubt there is a process going on. Iraq
:07:33. > :07:39.
:07:39. > :07:45.has 60% Arab Shia, 20% Arab Sunni, and Kurds, 20%. It is a rich mosaic.
:07:45. > :07:55.The Sunni people feel marginalised. Samia Nakhoul wrote an extensive
:07:55. > :08:06.
:08:06. > :08:11.piece. She says many Iraqis only have one hope. There are grievances.
:08:11. > :08:19.They need to be addressed. The government is fully aware of those
:08:19. > :08:28.grievances. There is an ongoing dialogue between the government, the
:08:28. > :08:33.Shia, the Sunni. The Sunni people have been in demonstrations.
:08:33. > :08:37.Thousands out on the streets. They say they are fed up with
:08:37. > :08:45.second-class letters. Neither the government nor they have resorted to
:08:45. > :08:53.escalate tension. We have talked about the Sunni people. What about
:08:53. > :09:03.the Shia people? They have also been subjected to the horrific attacks.
:09:03. > :09:03.
:09:03. > :09:09.We hear regular occurrences of bombings. Again, there is the fear
:09:09. > :09:12.that Shia militias, as they were involved in the civil war, may come
:09:12. > :09:19.out again if they see themselves under attack. Are you concerned
:09:19. > :09:27.about that? They formed is militia to defend the operating. We have a
:09:27. > :09:32.golden rule in Iraqi. Since 2003 onwards. Whenever we have political
:09:32. > :09:36.unity, we have better security. When we have political divisions amongst
:09:36. > :09:43.yourselves as politicians, it is reflected negatively on the
:09:43. > :09:53.security. Here is Iraq's dilemma. It has to find the balance between the
:09:53. > :09:54.
:09:55. > :09:59.two. We have a genuine political government which is inclusive. That
:09:59. > :10:08.has to be an inclusive government in Iraq. Since Iraq is in a
:10:08. > :10:18.transitional period, as a society, there are diehard groups like Al
:10:18. > :10:25.
:10:25. > :10:28.Qaeda, Asa'ib Ahl al-Haq. You are dismissing them. You say we have
:10:28. > :10:37.major concerns, we are ready for it and we are ready to protect our
:10:37. > :10:45.people. What is going on now is what led to the violence in 2006.
:10:45. > :10:52.mainstream Shia religious establishments... The political
:10:52. > :10:59.leaders are not encouraging this. These are minorities. They could
:10:59. > :11:09.destabilise the country. They could not ignite... You do not think so?I
:11:09. > :11:10.
:11:10. > :11:20.do not think so. Al Qaeda has tried all these years to ignite a war.
:11:20. > :11:21.
:11:21. > :11:29.This is the aim. I want to ask you, you also have the conflict in Syria.
:11:29. > :11:36.It is sectarian. You have the Alawite minority in power. We hear
:11:36. > :11:46.reports that Iraqis from the Shia and Sunni committees are going to
:11:46. > :11:47.
:11:47. > :11:57.fight. -- communities. Unfortunately, Syria has become a
:11:57. > :11:57.
:11:57. > :12:02.battleground or jihadist. Iraq fears this will turn into a sectarian
:12:02. > :12:12.dimension. The intervention of Hezbollah recently, the call for
:12:12. > :12:12.
:12:12. > :12:18.Jihad by the Sunni clerics, the response by some Shia militia also.
:12:18. > :12:25.But none of this, from the Iraqi government point of view, means it
:12:25. > :12:35.is supported link road or censure by the government. -- supported or
:12:35. > :12:39.
:12:39. > :12:48.sanctioned. Are you neutral?We are. We are like Geneva. You say you are
:12:48. > :12:55.neutral. The transport Minister has said about Iraqi Shia, he is a Shia,
:12:56. > :13:01.they go to Baghdad they Beirut. He says, do you want us to sit idle by
:13:01. > :13:05.the Shia being attacked was the Americans and the rest are helping
:13:05. > :13:12.the cinema people with weapons and money? What do you expect, he says.
:13:12. > :13:22.Why would he make that statement? you read the entire statement, he is
:13:22. > :13:28.
:13:28. > :13:37.not for. The leader of Al Qaeda? When they call for the Sunni people
:13:37. > :13:41.to go for Jihad, there would be a response from the Shia. They are
:13:41. > :13:46.sanctioned as a response by the Iraqi government to go to Syria?
:13:46. > :13:56.government does not encourage or support or are sanctioned... That is
:13:56. > :13:57.
:13:57. > :14:04.encouragement. No.I am not aware of any groups or Iraqis who have gone
:14:04. > :14:08.with the support of the government. Went the special envoy to Iraq
:14:08. > :14:12.briefed the UN Security Council in July, he said the escalating
:14:12. > :14:19.violence in Iraq cannot reset but -- separated with the conflict in
:14:19. > :14:25.Syria, what do you think of the consequences? Iraqis the country
:14:25. > :14:34.that will be most affected are the continuation of the Syria conflict.
:14:34. > :14:42.Both geographically, socially. And geopolitically. That is way we are
:14:42. > :14:47.watching with great concern. With a lack of international community or
:14:47. > :14:55.Security Council action, this conflict is going to continue for
:14:55. > :14:59.some time. Do you think the move by the European Union to designate
:14:59. > :15:09.Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation is going to discourage
:15:09. > :15:20.
:15:20. > :15:30.organisation is going to discourage the elliptical wing from I am not
:15:30. > :15:39.judging. This is for the European Union. Any group committing
:15:39. > :15:43.terrorism or acts of terrorism, especially in Europe. Definitely
:15:43. > :15:53.this will lead Hezbollah to escalate this. That will be a response to
:15:53. > :15:57.
:15:57. > :16:07.this. Escalate in what way?I don't know. Hezbollah is for convenient.
:16:07. > :16:17.
:16:17. > :16:27.-- for convenient. -- pro-Iranian. How wise is that? Now there is
:16:27. > :16:33.
:16:33. > :16:43.support. Iran has influence in Iraq. He is not a run's man. Really? Can
:16:43. > :16:44.
:16:44. > :16:53.you say that? I can see that confidently. She is not Iran's man.
:16:53. > :17:00.What do you say to the senior Shia politician, can I tell you what he
:17:00. > :17:07.says? People might not know. He leads the coalition in Parliament.
:17:07. > :17:12.He says that they control the political decisions. Not to that
:17:13. > :17:22.extent. They do have influence with most of the Iraqi political leaders
:17:23. > :17:25.
:17:26. > :17:30.and the government. The current Iraqi government is independent. It
:17:30. > :17:40.follows its own national interest. It wants to build good relations
:17:40. > :17:48.with Iran. Can I just pick you up? You are foreign policy chief for
:17:48. > :17:53.Iraq. You know that Iran has been transferring weapons to the side
:17:53. > :18:02.government in Damascus through Iraqi airspace. You know the US Secretary
:18:02. > :18:08.of State said in March that the price with Iran were helping to
:18:08. > :18:16.sustain Bashar al-Asssad and the resume. It does not sound like you
:18:16. > :18:25.are vetoing what Iran is doing. has been going on for some time.
:18:25. > :18:35.Let's be honest about it. It is for the use of Iraqi air space. We have
:18:35. > :18:38.
:18:38. > :18:44.taken note of American and European concerns. We have conducted a number
:18:44. > :18:54.of searches. We did not find lethal material. Why can't you stop the
:18:54. > :19:00.weapons going? We have told them that we don't want them to use a
:19:00. > :19:10.good relations with us to embarrass us. Technically, in terms of the
:19:10. > :19:11.
:19:11. > :19:17.Iraqi air force, the defence, Iraq is not capable of stopping this.
:19:17. > :19:22.Even to stop what happened in March, tactically we do not have that
:19:22. > :19:30.technology. The Iraqi ambassador in Washington told Congress what you
:19:30. > :19:35.just said, that the air defences are too big and not integrated. -- to
:19:35. > :19:45.reach. Do you want this? If you had those, for the sake of argument,
:19:45. > :19:55.would you use them against the Iranian planes? We did protect our
:19:55. > :20:00.sovereignty against any intrusion. We will deny anybody the use of our
:20:00. > :20:08.air space. You would like to have that? We are seeking to buy them
:20:08. > :20:15.from the United States. We want to boost our defences. You are an Iraqi
:20:15. > :20:20.Kurd and you know the government have been quoted as saying in the
:20:20. > :20:25.past that if Iraq got the F-16s, they would be worried that Baghdad
:20:25. > :20:34.might use them against the Kurds in the future. If the cards are part of
:20:34. > :20:43.the decision-making, there is no way. That is the source of the
:20:43. > :20:53.worry. Otherwise, nobody would object. Is this an example to show
:20:53. > :20:56.yet again that the tensions between the semis and this year 's and
:20:56. > :21:04.occurrence and the regional government and Baghdad, in the old
:21:04. > :21:10.days, after the invasion, we spoke about the breakup of Iraq. Isn't
:21:10. > :21:17.that back on the agenda? So far nobody is embracing the idea of
:21:17. > :21:27.dividing the country. Everybody is benefiting from the wealth of Iraq.
:21:27. > :21:27.
:21:27. > :21:36.130 billion a year. On the increase. Protection Ullrich five to 6 million
:21:36. > :21:43.barrels a day. With the political system, this idea has not been
:21:43. > :21:52.popular, to be honest with you. The federal system is constitutionally
:21:52. > :22:02.ratified. Recently, the tension between the Kurds and the
:22:02. > :22:07.
:22:07. > :22:12.government... Over the disputes with the troops? Nothing has happened.
:22:12. > :22:19.There was a cabinet meeting. He went to Baghdad. They were able to
:22:19. > :22:26.resolve this. When you had your constitution in 2005, the Arabs in
:22:26. > :22:33.Iraq boycotted the system. They are looking at what you have in the
:22:33. > :22:39.North. They will want something as autonomous as that. That idea has
:22:39. > :22:45.been floated to create a region for the Sydney provinces. There is a way
:22:45. > :22:52.for them if they want to do that. They could follow constitutional
:22:52. > :22:56.steps to get to that. You have been Foreign Minister for ten years. He
:22:56. > :23:00.said he would represent the people of Iraq, not just one ethnic group.
:23:01. > :23:08.Can you say that dream has not unravelled my? When you look at that
:23:08. > :23:17.on a regular basis. I am supporting what the constitution says about
:23:17. > :23:20.Iraq. It is a federal democratic country. That is our philosophy.
:23:20. > :23:30.Iraq is free of sanctions, international sanctions. In that
:23:30. > :23:33.sense, no, the foreign policy of Iraq is not ready. You said you
:23:33. > :23:38.wanted to rehabilitate the image of Iraq after the fall of Saddam
:23:38. > :23:43.Hussein. Look at the way that Iraq is seen today. You have seen that
:23:43. > :23:46.the violence, the national co- existence is threatened. There is
:23:46. > :23:51.sectarianism in neighbouring Syria which is argued with Betty I want is
:23:51. > :23:58.going on in Iraq. -- arguably abetted. You can't say you have
:23:58. > :24:03.succeeded. We have not succeeded. We must do a better job and leaving
:24:03. > :24:07.behind the headlines and the TV images about the country. If you