0:00:00 > 0:00:04following days of high winds and
0:00:04 > 0:00:10following days of high winds and heavy rains. Time now
0:00:10 > 0:00:11following days of high winds and Hardtalkmed
0:00:11 > 0:00:13Hardtalkmed
0:00:13 > 0:00:14Hardtalkmed Welcome to Hardtalk. Kenya is the
0:00:14 > 0:00:14Welcome to Hardtalk. Kenya is the
0:00:14 > 0:00:15Welcome to Hardtalk. Kenya is the first country to have
0:00:15 > 0:00:15Welcome to Hardtalk. Kenya is the first country to have a sitting
0:00:15 > 0:00:16first country to have a sitting president
0:00:16 > 0:00:16first country to have a sitting president and
0:00:16 > 0:00:16first country to have a sitting president and Vice—President
0:00:16 > 0:00:17first country to have a sitting president and Vice—President tried
0:00:17 > 0:00:17president and Vice—President tried on
0:00:17 > 0:00:19president and Vice—President tried on charges of
0:00:19 > 0:00:20president and Vice—President tried humanity
0:00:20 > 0:00:20president and Vice—President tried humanity at
0:00:20 > 0:00:20president and Vice—President tried humanity at the
0:00:20 > 0:00:20on charges of crimes against humanity at the
0:00:20 > 0:00:21on charges of crimes against Criminal
0:00:21 > 0:00:21humanity at the International Criminal
0:00:21 > 0:00:22humanity at the International Criminal Court in The
0:00:22 > 0:00:23humanity at the International Criminal Court in The Hague. They
0:00:23 > 0:00:24Criminal Court in The Hague. They
0:00:24 > 0:00:25Criminal Court in The Hague. They were accused
0:00:25 > 0:00:25Criminal Court in The Hague. They were accused of orchestrating
0:00:25 > 0:00:26Criminal Court in The Hague. They were accused of orchestrating ethnic
0:00:26 > 0:00:26were accused of orchestrating ethnic
0:00:26 > 0:00:27were accused of orchestrating ethnic based violence
0:00:27 > 0:00:27were accused of orchestrating ethnic based violence in
0:00:27 > 0:00:28were accused of orchestrating ethnic based violence in 2007
0:00:28 > 0:00:28were accused of orchestrating ethnic based violence in 2007 in
0:00:28 > 0:00:29were accused of orchestrating ethnic based violence in 2007 in which
0:00:29 > 0:00:29were accused of orchestrating ethnic based violence in 2007 in which 1200
0:00:29 > 0:00:29were accused of orchestrating ethnic were
0:00:29 > 0:00:31based violence in 2007 in which 1200 were
0:00:31 > 0:00:31based violence in 2007 in which 1200 were killed and 600,000
0:00:31 > 0:00:31based violence in 2007 in which 1200 were killed and 600,000 forced
0:00:31 > 0:00:32based violence in 2007 in which 1200 were killed and 600,000 forced to
0:00:32 > 0:00:35were killed and 600,000 forced to flee
0:00:35 > 0:00:38were killed and 600,000 forced to flee their homes. They say they
0:00:38 > 0:00:38flee their homes. They say they are flee their homes. They say they
0:00:38 > 0:00:39flee their homes. They say they are not guilty.
0:00:39 > 0:00:39flee their homes. They say they are Kenya
0:00:39 > 0:00:39flee their homes. They say they are Kenya is
0:00:39 > 0:00:39not guilty. Kenya is
0:00:39 > 0:00:40not guilty. Kenya is threatening to
0:00:40 > 0:00:40not guilty. Kenya is threatening to withdraw
0:00:40 > 0:00:41Kenya is threatening to withdraw from
0:00:41 > 0:00:42Kenya is threatening to withdraw from the ICC,
0:00:42 > 0:00:42Kenya is threatening to withdraw from the ICC, but how much
0:00:42 > 0:00:43Kenya is threatening to withdraw from the ICC, but how much damage
0:00:43 > 0:00:43from the ICC, but how much damage would
0:00:43 > 0:00:44from the ICC, but how much damage would that do to
0:00:44 > 0:00:54from the ICC, but how much damage would that do to its international
0:00:54 > 0:00:58would that do to its international
0:01:14 > 0:01:14Welcome. Thank you very
0:01:14 > 0:01:18Welcome. Thank you very much.
0:01:18 > 0:01:19Do you believe that the president and
0:01:19 > 0:01:20Do you believe that the president and the
0:01:20 > 0:01:22Do you believe that the president and the the Vice
0:01:22 > 0:01:22and the the Vice President of Kenya and the the Vice
0:01:22 > 0:01:29and the the Vice President of Kenya should be standing trial at the
0:01:29 > 0:01:29No. Why not? They are not guilty. should be standing trial at the
0:01:29 > 0:01:30No. Why not? They are not guilty. And you
0:01:30 > 0:01:30No. Why not? They are not guilty. And you have decided
0:01:30 > 0:01:30No. Why not? They are not guilty. And you have decided that
0:01:30 > 0:01:31No. Why not? They are not guilty. And you have decided that before
0:01:31 > 0:01:32And you have decided that before
0:01:32 > 0:01:32And you have decided that before they have stood trial? Well, I
0:01:32 > 0:01:33And you have decided that before they have stood trial? Well, I have
0:01:33 > 0:01:33they have stood trial? Well, I have decided
0:01:33 > 0:01:33they have stood trial? Well, I have decided that
0:01:33 > 0:01:33they have stood trial? Well, I have decided that because
0:01:33 > 0:01:33they have stood trial? Well, I have decided that because the
0:01:33 > 0:01:34they have stood trial? Well, I have decided that because the part
0:01:34 > 0:01:34they have stood trial? Well, I have decided that because the part of
0:01:34 > 0:01:35decided that because the part of
0:01:35 > 0:01:36decided that because the part of evidence that has been
0:01:36 > 0:01:36decided that because the part of evidence that has been used in
0:01:36 > 0:01:37decided that because the part of evidence that has been used in the
0:01:37 > 0:01:37evidence that has been used in the Kenyan
0:01:37 > 0:01:38evidence that has been used in the Kenyan cases is
0:01:38 > 0:01:38evidence that has been used in the Kenyan cases is the
0:01:38 > 0:01:38evidence that has been used in the Kenyan cases is the same
0:01:38 > 0:01:39evidence that has been used in the Kenyan cases is the same for
0:01:39 > 0:01:39evidence that has been used in the Kenyan cases is the same for the
0:01:39 > 0:01:40evidence that has been used in the Kenyan cases is the same for the six
0:01:40 > 0:01:41Kenyan cases is the same for the six suspects
0:01:41 > 0:01:41Kenyan cases is the same for the six suspects that were
0:01:41 > 0:01:42Kenyan cases is the same for the six suspects that were before
0:01:42 > 0:01:42Kenyan cases is the same for the six suspects that were before the
0:01:42 > 0:01:42Kenyan cases is the same for the six suspects that were before the court
0:01:42 > 0:01:43suspects that were before the court in
0:01:43 > 0:01:44suspects that were before the court in the
0:01:44 > 0:01:44suspects that were before the court in the beginning. Three
0:01:44 > 0:01:45suspects that were before the court in the beginning. Three of them
0:01:45 > 0:01:45suspects that were before the court been
0:01:45 > 0:01:46in the beginning. Three of them has been
0:01:46 > 0:01:46in the beginning. Three of them has been dismissed. Three
0:01:46 > 0:01:46in the beginning. Three of them has been dismissed. Three of
0:01:46 > 0:01:46in the beginning. Three of them has been dismissed. Three of the
0:01:46 > 0:01:47in the beginning. Three of them has been dismissed. Three of the cases
0:01:47 > 0:01:48been dismissed. Three of the cases have
0:01:48 > 0:01:48been dismissed. Three of the cases have been dismissed. There
0:01:48 > 0:01:49been dismissed. Three of the cases have been dismissed. There is
0:01:49 > 0:01:49been dismissed. Three of the cases nothing
0:01:49 > 0:01:50have been dismissed. There is nothing
0:01:50 > 0:01:50have been dismissed. There is nothing additional that happened
0:01:50 > 0:01:51nothing additional that happened
0:01:51 > 0:01:51nothing additional that happened that could have
0:01:51 > 0:01:51nothing additional that happened that could have led
0:01:51 > 0:01:52nothing additional that happened that could have led to
0:01:52 > 0:01:52nothing additional that happened that could have led to the
0:01:52 > 0:01:52that could have led to the
0:01:52 > 0:01:53that could have led to the president, the
0:01:53 > 0:01:53that could have led to the president, the and
0:01:53 > 0:01:54that could have led to the president, the and the
0:01:54 > 0:01:55president, the and the deputy president, the and the
0:01:55 > 0:01:55president, the and the deputy president being
0:01:55 > 0:01:56president, the and the deputy president being in
0:01:56 > 0:01:57president, the and the deputy president being in court today.
0:01:57 > 0:01:57president, the and the deputy president being in court today. And
0:01:57 > 0:01:57president being in court today. And we
0:01:57 > 0:01:58president being in court today. And we have
0:01:58 > 0:01:58president being in court today. And we have a
0:01:58 > 0:01:59president being in court today. And we have a radio
0:01:59 > 0:01:59president being in court today. And we have a radio presenter
0:01:59 > 0:01:59president being in court today. And we have a radio presenter also
0:01:59 > 0:01:59we have a radio presenter also
0:01:59 > 0:02:01we have a radio presenter also standing trial.
0:02:01 > 0:02:01we have a radio presenter also standing trial. The three
0:02:01 > 0:02:02we have a radio presenter also standing trial. The three that
0:02:02 > 0:02:02we have a radio presenter also standing trial. The three that are
0:02:02 > 0:02:03standing trial. The three that are left.
0:02:03 > 0:02:04standing trial. The three that are The
0:02:04 > 0:02:04standing trial. The three that are The it
0:02:04 > 0:02:06left. The it
0:02:06 > 0:02:08left. The it chief
0:02:08 > 0:02:09left. The it chief prosecutor of
0:02:09 > 0:02:09left. The it chief prosecutor of the
0:02:09 > 0:02:09The it chief prosecutor of the International
0:02:09 > 0:02:09The it chief prosecutor of the International Criminal
0:02:09 > 0:02:11The it chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court
0:02:11 > 0:02:13The it chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court says
0:02:13 > 0:02:14The it chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court says of
0:02:14 > 0:02:14International Criminal Court says of William
0:02:14 > 0:02:15International Criminal Court says of William Rooto,
0:02:15 > 0:02:15International Criminal Court says of William Rooto, he
0:02:15 > 0:02:16International Criminal Court says of William Rooto, he is
0:02:16 > 0:02:17International Criminal Court says of William Rooto, he is a
0:02:17 > 0:02:18International Criminal Court says of William Rooto, he is a power
0:02:18 > 0:02:19William Rooto, he is a power
0:02:19 > 0:02:20William Rooto, he is a power powerful politician
0:02:20 > 0:02:20William Rooto, he is a power powerful politician who planned
0:02:20 > 0:02:21William Rooto, he is a power powerful politician who planned the
0:02:21 > 0:02:21William Rooto, he is a power crimes
0:02:21 > 0:02:24William Rooto, he is a power crimes to
0:02:24 > 0:02:24powerful politician who planned the crimes to
0:02:24 > 0:02:26powerful politician who planned the crimes to satisfy his power.
0:02:26 > 0:02:26powerful politician who planned the crimes to satisfy his power. When
0:02:26 > 0:02:26powerful politician who planned the crimes to satisfy his power. When he
0:02:26 > 0:02:26crimes to satisfy his power. When he lost
0:02:26 > 0:02:27crimes to satisfy his power. When he lost the election
0:02:27 > 0:02:28crimes to satisfy his power. When he lost the election he
0:02:28 > 0:02:28crimes to satisfy his power. When he lost the election he gave the order
0:02:28 > 0:02:30lost the election he gave the order
0:02:30 > 0:02:32lost the election he gave the order to attack. That's categorical?
0:02:32 > 0:02:32lost the election he gave the order to attack. That's categorical? Well,
0:02:32 > 0:02:32to attack. That's categorical? Well, he
0:02:32 > 0:02:33to attack. That's categorical? Well, he was
0:02:33 > 0:02:33to attack. That's categorical? Well, he was not
0:02:33 > 0:02:33to attack. That's categorical? Well, he was not standing
0:02:33 > 0:02:34to attack. That's categorical? Well, he was not standing for
0:02:34 > 0:02:34to attack. That's categorical? Well, he was not standing for president
0:02:34 > 0:02:34to attack. That's categorical? Well, he was not standing for president of
0:02:34 > 0:02:34he was not standing for president of the
0:02:34 > 0:02:36he was not standing for president of the republic.
0:02:36 > 0:02:37the republic.
0:02:37 > 0:02:37the republic. He was
0:02:37 > 0:02:37the republic. He was contesting
0:02:37 > 0:02:38the republic. He was contesting elections
0:02:38 > 0:02:39the republic. He was contesting elections in
0:02:39 > 0:02:39He was contesting elections in 2007. He was contesting elections in
0:02:39 > 0:02:39He was contesting elections in 2007. As a
0:02:39 > 0:02:40He was contesting elections in 2007. As a member
0:02:40 > 0:02:41He was contesting elections in 2007. As a member of
0:02:41 > 0:02:41He was contesting elections in 2007. As a member of Parliament and he
0:02:41 > 0:02:42As a member of Parliament and he
0:02:42 > 0:02:42As a member of Parliament and he will win
0:02:42 > 0:02:42As a member of Parliament and he will win that
0:02:42 > 0:02:43As a member of Parliament and he will win that any
0:02:43 > 0:02:43As a member of Parliament and he will win that any time
0:02:43 > 0:02:43As a member of Parliament and he will win that any time of
0:02:43 > 0:02:43As a member of Parliament and he will win that any time of the
0:02:43 > 0:02:44As a member of Parliament and he will win that any time of the day
0:02:44 > 0:02:45will win that any time of the day
0:02:45 > 0:02:46will win that any time of the day because he is a
0:02:46 > 0:02:47will win that any time of the day because he is a popular politician.
0:02:47 > 0:02:48because he is a popular politician.
0:02:48 > 0:02:49because he is a popular politician. I wasn't asking whether he was
0:02:49 > 0:02:49because he is a popular politician. I wasn't asking whether he was going
0:02:49 > 0:02:49I wasn't asking whether he was going
0:02:49 > 0:02:49I wasn't asking whether he was going to win the
0:02:49 > 0:02:51I wasn't asking whether he was going to win the election?
0:02:51 > 0:02:51I wasn't asking whether he was going to win the election? He didn't
0:02:51 > 0:02:52I wasn't asking whether he was going to win the election? He didn't lose
0:02:52 > 0:02:52to win the election? He didn't lose
0:02:52 > 0:02:53to win the election? He didn't lose the elections. He
0:02:53 > 0:02:53to win the election? He didn't lose the elections. He didn't
0:02:53 > 0:02:53to win the election? He didn't lose the elections. He didn't lose the
0:02:53 > 0:02:55the elections. He didn't lose the
0:02:55 > 0:02:55the elections. He didn't lose the No
0:02:55 > 0:02:56elections. No
0:02:56 > 0:02:56elections. No he was
0:02:56 > 0:03:01elections. No he was I
0:03:01 > 0:03:01elections. No he was I can back backing ——
0:03:01 > 0:03:01elections. No he was I can back backing —— no,
0:03:01 > 0:03:02elections. he
0:03:02 > 0:03:03elections. he was
0:03:03 > 0:03:05he was backing someone else at the time. He
0:03:05 > 0:03:07he was backing someone else at the time. He gave the order to attack?
0:03:07 > 0:03:09time. He gave the order to attack? He
0:03:09 > 0:03:09time. He gave the order to attack? prosecution says. That's
0:03:09 > 0:03:10time. He gave the order to attack? prosecution says. That's what
0:03:10 > 0:03:11He didn't. That's what the prosecution says. That's what the
0:03:11 > 0:03:14prosecution says. That's what the prosecution says, but I
0:03:14 > 0:03:15prosecution says, but I will tell you, from
0:03:15 > 0:03:16prosecution says, but I will tell you, from 2008, to
0:03:16 > 0:03:17prosecution says, but I will tell you, from 2008, to date,
0:03:17 > 0:03:17prosecution says, but I will tell you, from 2008, to date, William has
0:03:17 > 0:03:21you, from 2008, to date, William has
0:03:21 > 0:03:22you, from 2008, to date, William has been on a campaign of reconciling
0:03:22 > 0:03:22been on a campaign of reconciling
0:03:22 > 0:03:23been on a campaign of reconciling the different
0:03:23 > 0:03:23been on a campaign of reconciling the different Kenyan
0:03:23 > 0:03:23been on a campaign of reconciling the different Kenyan ethnic
0:03:23 > 0:03:26been on a campaign of reconciling the different Kenyan ethnic groups.
0:03:26 > 0:03:27the different Kenyan ethnic groups.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29the different Kenyan ethnic groups. He has done that
0:03:29 > 0:03:29the different Kenyan ethnic groups. He has done that redentlessly and
0:03:29 > 0:03:30He has done that redentlessly and
0:03:30 > 0:03:30He has done that redentlessly and couragiously, whether
0:03:30 > 0:03:30He has done that redentlessly and couragiously, whether it
0:03:30 > 0:03:31He has done that redentlessly and couragiously, whether it was those
0:03:31 > 0:03:32couragiously, whether it was those
0:03:32 > 0:03:34couragiously, whether it was those that were affected
0:03:34 > 0:03:34couragiously, whether it was those that were affected by
0:03:34 > 0:03:38couragiously, whether it was those that were affected by the activities
0:03:38 > 0:03:39that were affected by the activities that went on in 2007 and 2008 or
0:03:39 > 0:03:39that went on in 2007 and 2008 or those
0:03:39 > 0:03:42that went on in 2007 and 2008 or those that
0:03:42 > 0:03:42those that weren't. He made sure those that
0:03:42 > 0:03:42those that weren't. He made sure that the Kenyan communities
0:03:42 > 0:03:43those that weren't. He made sure that the Kenyan communities came
0:03:43 > 0:03:44that the Kenyan communities came
0:03:44 > 0:03:45that the Kenyan communities came together. He together with
0:03:45 > 0:03:46that the Kenyan communities came together. He together with our
0:03:46 > 0:03:48together. He together with our
0:03:48 > 0:03:49together. He together with our current president, right, have
0:03:49 > 0:03:49together. He together with our current president, right, have so
0:03:49 > 0:03:50current president, right, have so much
0:03:50 > 0:03:51current president, right, have so much could have
0:03:51 > 0:03:51current president, right, have so much could have dense
0:03:51 > 0:03:52current president, right, have so much could have dense of the
0:03:52 > 0:03:53much could have dense of the
0:03:53 > 0:03:54much could have dense of the electorate that they won
0:03:54 > 0:03:54much could have dense of the electorate that they won the
0:03:54 > 0:03:54much could have dense of the electorate that they won the next
0:03:54 > 0:03:56electorate that they won the next
0:03:56 > 0:03:57electorate that they won the next general election.
0:03:57 > 0:03:57electorate that they won the next general election. That
0:03:57 > 0:03:58electorate that they won the next general election. That maybe
0:03:58 > 0:03:58electorate that they won the next general election. That maybe true
0:03:58 > 0:03:59general election. That maybe true that
0:03:59 > 0:04:02general election. That maybe true that they are
0:04:02 > 0:04:02that they are working for that they are
0:04:02 > 0:04:02that they are working for reconciliation. They
0:04:02 > 0:04:03that they are working for reconciliation. They have
0:04:03 > 0:04:03that they are working for reconciliation. They have been,
0:04:03 > 0:04:03reconciliation. They have been, but reconciliation. They have been,
0:04:03 > 0:04:04reconciliation. They have been, but the point
0:04:04 > 0:04:05reconciliation. They have been, but the point I was putting
0:04:05 > 0:04:05reconciliation. They have been, but the point I was putting to you
0:04:05 > 0:04:05reconciliation. They have been, but the point I was putting to you is
0:04:05 > 0:04:06the point I was putting to you is this
0:04:06 > 0:04:07the point I was putting to you is this —
0:04:07 > 0:04:07the point I was putting to you is this — my
0:04:07 > 0:04:07the point I was putting to you is this — my original
0:04:07 > 0:04:08the point I was putting to you is this — my original question
0:04:08 > 0:04:08the point I was putting to you is this — my original question was
0:04:08 > 0:04:08the point I was putting to you is you
0:04:08 > 0:04:08this — my original question was do you
0:04:08 > 0:04:09this — my original question was do you think they
0:04:09 > 0:04:09this — my original question was do you think they should be standing
0:04:09 > 0:04:09you think they should be standing trial
0:04:09 > 0:04:10you think they should be standing trial and
0:04:10 > 0:04:10you think they should be standing trial and you
0:04:10 > 0:04:12you think they should be standing trial and you say
0:04:12 > 0:04:12you think they should be standing trial and you say no, ter they
0:04:12 > 0:04:13you think they should be standing trial and you say no, ter they are
0:04:13 > 0:04:13trial and you say no, ter they are
0:04:13 > 0:04:15trial and you say no, ter they are not guilty
0:04:15 > 0:04:15trial and you say no, ter they are not guilty —— they
0:04:15 > 0:04:15trial and you say no, ter they are not guilty —— they are not
0:04:15 > 0:04:16trial and you say no, ter they are not guilty —— they are not guilty.
0:04:16 > 0:04:17not guilty —— they are not guilty.
0:04:17 > 0:04:17not guilty —— they are not guilty. Why do you think they shouldn't
0:04:17 > 0:04:18not guilty —— they are not guilty. Why do you think they shouldn't be?
0:04:18 > 0:04:18not guilty —— they are not guilty. Why
0:04:18 > 0:04:20Why do you think they shouldn't be? Why
0:04:20 > 0:04:20Why do you think they shouldn't be? Why is the ICC taking
0:04:20 > 0:04:20Why do you think they shouldn't be? Why is the ICC taking a
0:04:20 > 0:04:21Why do you think they shouldn't be? Why is the ICC taking a this
0:04:21 > 0:04:21Why do you think they shouldn't be? Why is the ICC taking a this case
0:04:21 > 0:04:23Why is the ICC taking a this case against
0:04:23 > 0:04:24Why is the ICC taking a this case against them?
0:04:24 > 0:04:24Why is the ICC taking a this case against them? It
0:04:24 > 0:04:24Why is the ICC taking a this case against them? It wasn't
0:04:24 > 0:04:25Why is the ICC taking a this case against them? It wasn't the
0:04:25 > 0:04:25Why is the ICC taking a this case against them? It wasn't the ICC
0:04:25 > 0:04:26Why is the ICC taking a this case against them? It wasn't the ICC that
0:04:26 > 0:04:26against them? It wasn't the ICC that
0:04:26 > 0:04:27against them? It wasn't the ICC that brought the case
0:04:27 > 0:04:27against them? It wasn't the ICC that brought the case against
0:04:27 > 0:04:27against them? It wasn't the ICC that brought the case against them
0:04:27 > 0:04:28brought the case against them
0:04:28 > 0:04:29brought the case against them initially... Can I just get
0:04:29 > 0:04:29brought the case against them initially... Can I just get you
0:04:29 > 0:04:29brought the case against them that.
0:04:29 > 0:04:30initially... Can I just get you on that.
0:04:30 > 0:04:30initially... Can I just get you on that. You said
0:04:30 > 0:04:31initially... Can I just get you on that. You said it
0:04:31 > 0:04:32initially... Can I just get you on that. You said it wasn't the ICC
0:04:32 > 0:04:32initially... Can I just get you on that. You said it wasn't the ICC who
0:04:32 > 0:04:33that. You said it wasn't the ICC who
0:04:33 > 0:04:35that. You said it wasn't the ICC who brought the
0:04:35 > 0:04:36that. You said it wasn't the ICC who brought the case.
0:04:36 > 0:04:37that. You said it wasn't the ICC who brought the case. South Africa,
0:04:37 > 0:04:37brought the case. South Africa,
0:04:37 > 0:04:38brought the case. South Africa, Ireland, atrocities
0:04:38 > 0:04:38brought the case. South Africa, Ireland, atrocities committed.
0:04:38 > 0:04:38brought the case. South Africa, Ireland, atrocities committed. The
0:04:38 > 0:04:39Ireland, atrocities committed. The people
0:04:39 > 0:04:40Ireland, atrocities committed. The people came together.
0:04:40 > 0:04:42Ireland, atrocities committed. The people came together. They
0:04:42 > 0:04:42Ireland, atrocities committed. The people came together. They had
0:04:42 > 0:04:42Ireland, atrocities committed. The people came together. They had a
0:04:42 > 0:04:45people came together. They had a truth
0:04:45 > 0:04:45people came together. They had a truth a rek con
0:04:45 > 0:04:46people came together. They had a Reconciliation
0:04:46 > 0:04:46truth a rek con Truth and Reconciliation
0:04:46 > 0:04:46truth a rek con Truth and Reconciliation Commission that
0:04:46 > 0:04:46truth a rek con Truth and Reconciliation Commission that had
0:04:46 > 0:04:46Reconciliation Commission that had
0:04:46 > 0:04:47Reconciliation Commission that had nothing to do
0:04:47 > 0:04:48Reconciliation Commission that had nothing to do with
0:04:48 > 0:04:48Reconciliation Commission that had nothing to do with justice. People
0:04:48 > 0:04:49nothing to do with justice. People
0:04:49 > 0:04:49nothing to do with justice. People sat around the
0:04:49 > 0:04:51nothing to do with justice. People sat around the table
0:04:51 > 0:04:51nothing to do with justice. People sat around the table and concluded
0:04:51 > 0:04:51sat around the table and concluded those
0:04:51 > 0:04:52sat around the table and concluded those issues
0:04:52 > 0:04:52sat around the table and concluded those issues because
0:04:52 > 0:04:52sat around the table and concluded those issues because countries
0:04:52 > 0:04:53sat around the table and concluded those issues because countries must
0:04:53 > 0:04:57those issues because countries must move
0:04:57 > 0:04:59move forward. move
0:04:59 > 0:05:03move forward. When the commission was set—up,
0:05:03 > 0:05:03move forward. When the commission was set—up, cove
0:05:03 > 0:05:05move forward. Kofi
0:05:05 > 0:05:07When the commission was set—up, cove Kofi
0:05:07 > 0:05:10Kofi Annan was leading Kofi
0:05:10 > 0:05:10Kofi Annan was leading reconciliation. The commission
0:05:10 > 0:05:10Kofi Annan was leading reconciliation. The commission said
0:05:10 > 0:05:11reconciliation. The commission said that
0:05:11 > 0:05:13reconciliation. The commission said that Kenya to
0:05:13 > 0:05:13reconciliation. The commission said that Kenya to set—up a tribunal
0:05:13 > 0:05:13reconciliation. The commission said that Kenya to set—up a tribunal to
0:05:13 > 0:05:13that Kenya to set—up a tribunal to
0:05:13 > 0:05:14that Kenya to set—up a tribunal to see who was
0:05:14 > 0:05:14that Kenya to set—up a tribunal to see who was responsible
0:05:14 > 0:05:14that Kenya to set—up a tribunal to see who was responsible for
0:05:14 > 0:05:15that Kenya to set—up a tribunal to see who was responsible for the
0:05:15 > 0:05:15see who was responsible for the 1200 see who was responsible for the
0:05:15 > 0:05:16see who was responsible for the 1200 people that
0:05:16 > 0:05:17see who was responsible for the 1200 people that died in
0:05:17 > 0:05:17see who was responsible for the 1200 people that died in very, very
0:05:17 > 0:05:17people that died in very, very brutal
0:05:17 > 0:05:19people that died in very, very brutal circumstances.
0:05:19 > 0:05:19people that died in very, very brutal circumstances. 600,000 forced
0:05:19 > 0:05:19brutal circumstances. 600,000 forced to
0:05:19 > 0:05:20brutal circumstances. 600,000 forced to flee their
0:05:20 > 0:05:20brutal circumstances. 600,000 forced to flee their homes.
0:05:20 > 0:05:20brutal circumstances. 600,000 forced to flee their homes. That commission
0:05:20 > 0:05:26to flee their homes. That commission
0:05:26 > 0:05:26said if you don't set—up a tribunal and do it properly
0:05:26 > 0:05:26said if you don't set—up a tribunal and do it properly it
0:05:26 > 0:05:26said if you don't set—up a tribunal and do it properly it will
0:05:26 > 0:05:28said if you don't set—up a tribunal and do it properly it will have
0:05:28 > 0:05:30and do it properly it will have to and do it properly it will have
0:05:30 > 0:05:30go to the ICC and Kofi Annan said the
0:05:30 > 0:05:32go to the ICC and Kofi Annan said the ICC
0:05:32 > 0:05:36go to the ICC and Kofi Annan said the ICC was a court seen as the
0:05:36 > 0:05:37go to the ICC and Kofi Annan said resort. He
0:05:37 > 0:05:38go to the ICC and Kofi Annan said resort. He said there be no
0:05:38 > 0:05:40go to the ICC and Kofi Annan said resort. He said there be no doubt
0:05:40 > 0:05:40resort. He said there be no doubt that the failures paved
0:05:40 > 0:05:40resort. He said there be no doubt that the failures paved the
0:05:40 > 0:05:43resort. He said there be no doubt that the failures paved the way
0:05:43 > 0:05:46that the failures paved the way to the ICC? You know societies and
0:05:46 > 0:05:46the ICC? You know societies and communities are dynamic. What
0:05:46 > 0:05:50the ICC? You know societies and communities are dynamic. What was
0:05:50 > 0:05:58true in 2007 is definitely not true of my country today. We
0:05:58 > 0:05:58constitution that was formed in of my country today. We
0:05:58 > 0:05:59constitution that was formed in 2010. It provides
0:05:59 > 0:06:00constitution that was formed in 2010. It provides for
0:06:00 > 0:06:01constitution that was formed in 2010. It provides for a reformed
0:06:01 > 0:06:022010. It provides for a reformed judiciary
0:06:02 > 0:06:032010. It provides for a reformed judiciary and
0:06:03 > 0:06:032010. It provides for a reformed judiciary and judicial
0:06:03 > 0:06:042010. It provides for a reformed judiciary and judicial process.
0:06:04 > 0:06:042010. It provides for a reformed judiciary and judicial process. We
0:06:04 > 0:06:042010. It provides for a reformed have
0:06:04 > 0:06:042010. It provides for a reformed have had
0:06:04 > 0:06:052010. It provides for a reformed have had cases
0:06:05 > 0:06:07judiciary and judicial process. We have had cases
0:06:07 > 0:06:07judiciary and judicial process. We have had cases before our courts
0:06:07 > 0:06:08have had cases before our courts that
0:06:08 > 0:06:08have had cases before our courts that had
0:06:08 > 0:06:09have had cases before our courts that had the
0:06:09 > 0:06:09have had cases before our courts that had the confidence of the
0:06:09 > 0:06:11that had the confidence of the people.
0:06:11 > 0:06:11that had the confidence of the people. What
0:06:11 > 0:06:12that had the confidence of the people. What was
0:06:12 > 0:06:13that had the confidence of the people. What was happening in
0:06:13 > 0:06:13that had the confidence of the people. What was happening in 2007
0:06:13 > 0:06:13that had the confidence of the is
0:06:13 > 0:06:14people. What was happening in 2007 is
0:06:14 > 0:06:19people. What was happening in 2007 is not happening today.
0:06:19 > 0:06:20people. What was happening in 2007 If
0:06:20 > 0:06:20people. What was happening in 2007 If there
0:06:20 > 0:06:20people. What was happening in 2007 If there was
0:06:20 > 0:06:20people. What was happening in 2007 If there was action
0:06:20 > 0:06:21people. What was happening in 2007 If there was action on
0:06:21 > 0:06:21people. What was happening in 2007 If there was action on this
0:06:21 > 0:06:21is not happening today. If there was action on this point
0:06:21 > 0:06:22is not happening today. If there was action on this point of
0:06:22 > 0:06:22If there was action on this point of trying
0:06:22 > 0:06:25If there was action on this point of trying to
0:06:25 > 0:06:26If there was action on this point of trying to bring together justice,
0:06:26 > 0:06:26If there was action on this point of trying to bring together justice, if
0:06:26 > 0:06:27trying to bring together justice, if
0:06:27 > 0:06:27trying to bring together justice, if there was an action it would go
0:06:27 > 0:06:28trying to bring together justice, if there was an action it would go to
0:06:28 > 0:06:28trying to bring together justice, if the
0:06:28 > 0:06:28trying to bring together justice, if the ICC
0:06:28 > 0:06:28trying to bring together justice, if the ICC and
0:06:28 > 0:06:29trying to bring together justice, if the ICC and now
0:06:29 > 0:06:29trying to bring together justice, if the ICC and now you
0:06:29 > 0:06:29trying to bring together justice, if the ICC and now you are
0:06:29 > 0:06:29there was an action it would go to the ICC and now you are saying
0:06:29 > 0:06:30there was an action it would go to the ICC and now you are saying you
0:06:30 > 0:06:30the ICC and now you are saying you
0:06:30 > 0:06:30the ICC and now you are saying you have the
0:06:30 > 0:06:31the ICC and now you are saying you have the right to change your
0:06:31 > 0:06:31the ICC and now you are saying you have the right to change your minds?
0:06:31 > 0:06:32have the right to change your minds? No,
0:06:32 > 0:06:32have the right to change your minds? No, it is not
0:06:32 > 0:06:33have the right to change your minds? No, it is not about changing
0:06:33 > 0:06:33have the right to change your minds? No, it is not about changing minds.
0:06:33 > 0:06:34No, it is not about changing minds.
0:06:34 > 0:06:35No, it is not about changing minds. It is
0:06:35 > 0:06:35No, it is not about changing minds. It is about
0:06:35 > 0:06:36No, it is not about changing minds. It is about societies
0:06:36 > 0:06:37No, it is not about changing minds. forward.
0:06:37 > 0:06:38It is about societies moving forward.
0:06:38 > 0:06:39It is about societies moving forward. It is about societies
0:06:39 > 0:06:39forward. It is about societies
0:06:39 > 0:06:40forward. It is about societies reconciling. It
0:06:40 > 0:06:40forward. It is about societies reconciling. It is about
0:06:40 > 0:06:41forward. It is about societies reconciling. It is about societies
0:06:41 > 0:06:43reconciling. It is about societies after
0:06:43 > 0:06:43reconciling. It is about societies after reconciling, electing
0:06:43 > 0:06:43reconciling. It is about societies after reconciling, electing those
0:06:43 > 0:06:44after reconciling, electing those
0:06:44 > 0:06:44after reconciling, electing those that the
0:06:44 > 0:06:44after reconciling, electing those that the international
0:06:44 > 0:06:45after reconciling, electing those that the international community
0:06:45 > 0:06:45after reconciling, electing those that the international community had
0:06:45 > 0:06:46that the international community had put
0:06:46 > 0:06:46that the international community had put at The
0:06:46 > 0:06:50that the international community had put at The Hague.
0:06:50 > 0:06:50that the international community had put at The Hague. It is a different
0:06:50 > 0:06:50put at The Hague. It is a different set
0:06:50 > 0:06:51put at The Hague. It is a different set of
0:06:51 > 0:06:51put at The Hague. It is a different set of circumstances today
0:06:51 > 0:06:51put at The Hague. It is a different set of circumstances today and
0:06:51 > 0:06:53put at The Hague. It is a different set of circumstances today and you
0:06:53 > 0:06:53set of circumstances today and you know
0:06:53 > 0:06:54set of circumstances today and you know what, there
0:06:54 > 0:06:54set of circumstances today and you know what, there was an
0:06:54 > 0:06:55set of circumstances today and you know what, there was an envelope
0:06:55 > 0:06:56know what, there was an envelope
0:06:56 > 0:06:58know what, there was an envelope handed to Kofi
0:06:58 > 0:06:58know what, there was an envelope handed to Kofi Annan. It did not
0:06:58 > 0:06:58handed to Kofi Annan. It did not contain
0:06:58 > 0:06:59handed to Kofi Annan. It did not contain six
0:06:59 > 0:07:01handed to Kofi Annan. It did not contain six names.
0:07:01 > 0:07:01handed to Kofi Annan. It did not contain six names. They
0:07:01 > 0:07:02handed to Kofi Annan. It did not contain six names. They picked
0:07:02 > 0:07:02handed to Kofi Annan. It did not contain six names. They picked and
0:07:02 > 0:07:03contain six names. They picked and
0:07:03 > 0:07:04contain six names. They picked and chose, it
0:07:04 > 0:07:04contain six names. They picked and chose, it was
0:07:04 > 0:07:04contain six names. They picked and chose, it was politicised
0:07:04 > 0:07:04contain six names. They picked and chose, it was politicised from
0:07:04 > 0:07:05contain six names. They picked and chose, it was politicised from the
0:07:05 > 0:07:05chose, it was politicised from the beginning.
0:07:05 > 0:07:06chose, it was politicised from the beginning. How
0:07:06 > 0:07:08chose, it was politicised from the beginning. How can
0:07:08 > 0:07:09chose, it was politicised from the beginning. How can it be true
0:07:09 > 0:07:09chose, it was politicised from the beginning. How can it be true that
0:07:09 > 0:07:09beginning. How can it be true that
0:07:09 > 0:07:10beginning. How can it be true that they are
0:07:10 > 0:07:11beginning. How can it be true that they are conducting a case right,
0:07:11 > 0:07:11they are conducting a case right,
0:07:11 > 0:07:11they are conducting a case right, and that
0:07:11 > 0:07:12they are conducting a case right, and that they
0:07:12 > 0:07:12they are conducting a case right, and that they chose six out of
0:07:12 > 0:07:12they are conducting a case right, and that they chose six out of an
0:07:12 > 0:07:13and that they chose six out of an envelope
0:07:13 > 0:07:13and that they chose six out of an envelope of I
0:07:13 > 0:07:15and that they chose six out of an envelope of I don't
0:07:15 > 0:07:15and that they chose six out of an envelope of I don't know how many
0:07:15 > 0:07:17envelope of I don't know how many and
0:07:17 > 0:07:17and of the six, three are from one and
0:07:17 > 0:07:18and of the six, three are from one side of the
0:07:18 > 0:07:18and of the six, three are from one side of the politicalle divide
0:07:18 > 0:07:18and of the six, three are from one side of the politicalle divide and
0:07:18 > 0:07:19side of the politicalle divide and the
0:07:19 > 0:07:19side of the politicalle divide and the other three
0:07:19 > 0:07:19side of the politicalle divide and the other three were
0:07:19 > 0:07:19side of the politicalle divide and the other three were from
0:07:19 > 0:07:20side of the politicalle divide and the other three were from the
0:07:20 > 0:07:20side of the politicalle divide and the other three were from the other
0:07:20 > 0:07:20the other three were from the other
0:07:20 > 0:07:21the other three were from the other side. If
0:07:21 > 0:07:21the other three were from the other side. If that is
0:07:21 > 0:07:22the other three were from the other side. If that is not
0:07:22 > 0:07:22the other three were from the other side. If that is not politicising
0:07:22 > 0:07:24side. If that is not politicising the
0:07:24 > 0:07:24side. If that is not politicising the case, tell me what
0:07:24 > 0:07:24side. If that is not politicising the case, tell me what is.
0:07:24 > 0:07:25side. If that is not politicising the case, tell me what is. If
0:07:25 > 0:07:25side. If that is not politicising the case, tell me what is. If they
0:07:25 > 0:07:25the case, tell me what is. If they had
0:07:25 > 0:07:25the case, tell me what is. If they had stood
0:07:25 > 0:07:27the case, tell me what is. If they had stood up
0:07:27 > 0:07:27the case, tell me what is. If they had stood up and said, " Listen,
0:07:27 > 0:07:28had stood up and said, " Listen,
0:07:28 > 0:07:29had stood up and said, " Listen, atrocities were
0:07:29 > 0:07:29atrocities were committed. One or atrocities were
0:07:29 > 0:07:31atrocities were committed. One or two people
0:07:31 > 0:07:31two people are responsible. And it two people
0:07:31 > 0:07:33two people are responsible. And it wouldn't have
0:07:33 > 0:07:35wouldn't have mattered from one side wouldn't have
0:07:35 > 0:07:36of the political divide they were, right? Then
0:07:36 > 0:07:37of the political divide they were, right? Then it
0:07:37 > 0:07:38right? Then it would have been right? Then it
0:07:38 > 0:07:39right? Then it would have been easier for people to
0:07:39 > 0:07:39easier for people to say, this is easier for people to
0:07:39 > 0:07:40easier for people to say, this is fair. This is objective.
0:07:40 > 0:07:41easier for people to say, this is fair. This is objective. This
0:07:41 > 0:07:42fair. This is objective. This is right.
0:07:42 > 0:07:43fair. This is objective. This is right. This
0:07:43 > 0:07:43fair. This is objective. This is right. This is a search for
0:07:43 > 0:07:44fair. This is objective. This is right. This is a search for justice.
0:07:44 > 0:07:45right. This is a search for justice. So
0:07:45 > 0:07:45right. This is a search for justice. So your
0:07:45 > 0:07:46right. This is a search for justice. So your Government's
0:07:46 > 0:07:46right. This is a search for justice. So your Government's position
0:07:46 > 0:07:46right. This is a search for justice. So your Government's position is
0:07:46 > 0:07:47So your Government's position is
0:07:47 > 0:07:47So your Government's position is saying the chief prosecutor
0:07:47 > 0:07:48So your Government's position is saying the chief prosecutor of
0:07:48 > 0:07:48So your Government's position is saying the chief prosecutor of the
0:07:48 > 0:07:49saying the chief prosecutor of the
0:07:49 > 0:07:50saying the chief prosecutor of the ICC does not really
0:07:50 > 0:07:50saying the chief prosecutor of the ICC does not really want to take
0:07:50 > 0:07:51ICC does not really want to take this
0:07:51 > 0:07:52ICC does not really want to take this trial... No, I am not saying
0:07:52 > 0:07:54this trial... No, I am not saying
0:07:54 > 0:07:54this trial... No, I am not saying that. But she is. Well, you know
0:07:54 > 0:07:56that. But she is. Well, you know
0:07:56 > 0:07:56that. But she is. Well, you know what... She has given
0:07:56 > 0:08:11that. But she is. Well, you know what... She has given interviews.
0:08:11 > 0:08:11that. But she is. Well, you know is woulderied about reluctance
0:08:11 > 0:08:12that. But she is. Well, you know is woulderied about reluctance of
0:08:12 > 0:08:13is woulderied about reluctance of
0:08:13 > 0:08:14is woulderied about reluctance of witnesses to ——
0:08:14 > 0:08:18is woulderied about reluctance of witnesses to —— she is worried
0:08:18 > 0:08:18is woulderied about reluctance of witnesses to —— she is worried about
0:08:18 > 0:08:19witnesses to —— she is worried about
0:08:19 > 0:08:19witnesses to —— she is worried about reluctance of
0:08:19 > 0:08:21witnesses to —— she is worried about reluctance of witnesses.
0:08:21 > 0:08:22reluctance of witnesses.
0:08:22 > 0:08:23reluctance of witnesses. She dragged my
0:08:23 > 0:08:24reluctance of witnesses. She dragged my deputy president.
0:08:24 > 0:08:24She dragged my deputy president. You She dragged my deputy president.
0:08:24 > 0:08:24She dragged my deputy president. You know what,
0:08:24 > 0:08:25She dragged my deputy president. You know what, the witnesses
0:08:25 > 0:08:25She dragged my deputy president. You know what, the witnesses haven't
0:08:25 > 0:08:28know what, the witnesses haven't
0:08:28 > 0:08:29know what, the witnesses haven't been able to travel, go
0:08:29 > 0:08:29know what, the witnesses haven't been able to travel, go away
0:08:29 > 0:08:29know what, the witnesses haven't been able to travel, go away Deputy
0:08:29 > 0:08:30been able to travel, go away Deputy
0:08:30 > 0:08:30been able to travel, go away Deputy Prime Minister,
0:08:30 > 0:08:30been able to travel, go away Deputy Prime Minister, come back next
0:08:30 > 0:08:32been able to travel, go away Deputy Prime Minister, come back next week.
0:08:32 > 0:08:32Prime Minister, come back next week. Deputy
0:08:32 > 0:08:35Prime Minister, come back next week. Deputy president.
0:08:35 > 0:08:35Prime Minister, come back next week. Deputy president. His
0:08:35 > 0:08:36Prime Minister, come back next week. Deputy president. His case was
0:08:36 > 0:08:36Deputy president. His case was adjourned.
0:08:36 > 0:08:36Deputy president. His case was adjourned. Of
0:08:36 > 0:08:37Deputy president. His case was adjourned. Of course,
0:08:37 > 0:08:38Deputy president. His case was adjourned. Of course, he is back,
0:08:38 > 0:08:38adjourned. Of course, he is back,
0:08:38 > 0:08:38adjourned. Of course, he is back, but how
0:08:38 > 0:08:40adjourned. Of course, he is back, but how do
0:08:40 > 0:08:40adjourned. Of course, he is back, but how do you do that? You have
0:08:40 > 0:08:40but how do you do that? You have
0:08:40 > 0:08:41but how do you do that? You have five years
0:08:41 > 0:08:41but how do you do that? You have five years to prepare a
0:08:41 > 0:08:42but how do you do that? You have five years to prepare a case.
0:08:42 > 0:08:42but how do you do that? You have five years to prepare a case. How
0:08:42 > 0:08:43but how do you do that? You have five years to prepare a case. How is
0:08:43 > 0:08:43five years to prepare a case. How is
0:08:43 > 0:08:44five years to prepare a case. How is it possible?
0:08:44 > 0:08:46five years to prepare a case. How is it possible? A
0:08:46 > 0:08:46five years to prepare a case. How is it possible? A leader who has
0:08:46 > 0:08:46it possible? A leader who has
0:08:46 > 0:08:47it possible? A leader who has constitutional, but he is
0:08:47 > 0:08:47constitutional, but he is the... He constitutional, but he is
0:08:47 > 0:08:48constitutional, but he is the... He is standing
0:08:48 > 0:08:48constitutional, but he is the... He is standing trial. If you say
0:08:48 > 0:08:49constitutional, but he is the... He is standing trial. If you say he
0:08:49 > 0:08:49constitutional, but he is the... He is standing trial. If you say he has
0:08:49 > 0:08:49is standing trial. If you say he has
0:08:49 > 0:08:50is standing trial. If you say he has no case
0:08:50 > 0:08:50is standing trial. If you say he has no case to answer
0:08:50 > 0:08:50is standing trial. If you say he has no case to answer and
0:08:50 > 0:08:51is standing trial. If you say he has no case to answer and he
0:08:51 > 0:08:51is standing trial. If you say he has no case to answer and he is
0:08:51 > 0:08:51is standing trial. If you say he has no case to answer and he is trying
0:08:51 > 0:08:52no case to answer and he is trying trial?
0:08:52 > 0:08:52no case to answer and he is trying trial? We
0:08:52 > 0:08:52no case to answer and he is trying trial? We are
0:08:52 > 0:08:53no case to answer and he is trying trial? We are co order
0:08:53 > 0:08:54no case to answer and he is trying trial? We are co order rating with
0:08:54 > 0:08:54trial? We are co order rating with
0:08:54 > 0:08:56trial? We are co order rating with the court.
0:08:56 > 0:08:57trial? We are co order rating with the court. We committed ourselves...
0:08:57 > 0:08:58the court. We committed ourselves...
0:08:58 > 0:08:58the court. We committed ourselves... Are you
0:08:58 > 0:08:59the court. We committed ourselves... Are you co—operating with
0:08:59 > 0:08:59the court. We committed ourselves... courts?
0:08:59 > 0:09:00the court. We committed ourselves... courts? Yes.
0:09:00 > 0:09:01Are you co—operating with the courts? Yes.
0:09:01 > 0:09:01Are you co—operating with the courts? Yes. You don't want
0:09:01 > 0:09:02Are you co—operating with the courts? Yes. You don't want to
0:09:02 > 0:09:04courts? Yes. You don't want to withdraw.
0:09:04 > 0:09:04courts? Yes. You don't want to withdraw. First step in making
0:09:04 > 0:09:04courts? Yes. You don't want to withdraw. First step in making Kenya
0:09:04 > 0:09:05withdraw. First step in making Kenya
0:09:05 > 0:09:08withdraw. First step in making Kenya withdraw? The
0:09:08 > 0:09:10withdraw? The motion was passed. I withdraw? The
0:09:10 > 0:09:10withdraw? The motion was passed. I foresee that they would repeal
0:09:10 > 0:09:11withdraw? The motion was passed. I foresee that they would repeal our
0:09:11 > 0:09:11foresee that they would repeal our Act
0:09:11 > 0:09:11foresee that they would repeal our Act first of
0:09:11 > 0:09:14foresee that they would repeal our Act first of all,
0:09:14 > 0:09:15foresee that they would repeal our Act first of all, the and
0:09:15 > 0:09:15foresee that they would repeal our Act first of all, the and the next
0:09:15 > 0:09:16Act first of all, the and the next
0:09:16 > 0:09:17Act first of all, the and the next step will be withdrawal, right,
0:09:17 > 0:09:17Act first of all, the and the next step will be withdrawal, right, but
0:09:17 > 0:09:17step will be withdrawal, right, but
0:09:17 > 0:09:18step will be withdrawal, right, but we have
0:09:18 > 0:09:18step will be withdrawal, right, but we have been there
0:09:18 > 0:09:18step will be withdrawal, right, but we have been there before.
0:09:18 > 0:09:18step will be withdrawal, right, but we have been there before. It
0:09:18 > 0:09:19step will be withdrawal, right, but we have been there before. It is
0:09:19 > 0:09:19step will be withdrawal, right, but we have been there before. It is not
0:09:19 > 0:09:21we have been there before. It is not the
0:09:21 > 0:09:21we have been there before. It is not the first
0:09:21 > 0:09:22we have been there before. It is not the first time
0:09:22 > 0:09:22we have been there before. It is not the first time that the Parliament
0:09:22 > 0:09:22the first time that the Parliament
0:09:22 > 0:09:24the first time that the Parliament that is
0:09:24 > 0:09:24that is passed that motion. that is
0:09:24 > 0:09:24that is passed that motion. You know
0:09:24 > 0:09:24that is passed that motion. You know that
0:09:24 > 0:09:25that is passed that motion. You know that motion
0:09:25 > 0:09:26that is passed that motion. You know that motion was
0:09:26 > 0:09:26that is passed that motion. You know that motion was called
0:09:26 > 0:09:26that is passed that motion. You know that motion was called by
0:09:26 > 0:09:27that is passed that motion. opponents
0:09:27 > 0:09:28You know that motion was called by opponents
0:09:28 > 0:09:33You know that motion was called by opponents of
0:09:33 > 0:09:35You know that motion was called by opponents of the president...
0:09:35 > 0:09:36You know that motion was called by opponents of the president... It
0:09:36 > 0:09:36You know that motion was called by opponents of the president... It is
0:09:36 > 0:09:36opponents of the president... It is
0:09:36 > 0:09:37opponents of the president... It is an independent institution.
0:09:37 > 0:09:37opponents of the president... It is an independent institution. It
0:09:37 > 0:09:38opponents of the president... It is an independent institution. It is
0:09:38 > 0:09:38opponents of the president... It is an independent institution. It is a
0:09:38 > 0:09:38an independent institution. It is a democratic
0:09:38 > 0:09:39an independent institution. It is a democratic institution. It
0:09:39 > 0:09:39an independent institution. It is a democratic institution. It is
0:09:39 > 0:09:39an independent institution. It is a democratic institution. It is a
0:09:39 > 0:09:40democratic institution. It is a Parliament.
0:09:40 > 0:09:41democratic institution. It is a Parliament. Parliaments
0:09:41 > 0:09:41democratic institution. It is a Parliament. Parliaments debate
0:09:41 > 0:09:42Parliament. Parliaments debate
0:09:42 > 0:09:44Parliament. Parliaments debate issues. Parliaments,
0:09:44 > 0:09:45Parliament. Parliaments debate issues. Parliaments, you
0:09:45 > 0:09:46issues. Parliaments, you know, Parliamentarians can walk—out
0:09:46 > 0:09:46issues. Parliaments, you know, Parliamentarians can walk—out of
0:09:46 > 0:09:46issues. Parliaments, you know, Parliamentarians can walk—out of a
0:09:46 > 0:09:50Parliamentarians can walk—out of a debate...
0:09:50 > 0:09:52Parliamentarians can walk—out of a debate... Which they did do? Which
0:09:52 > 0:09:52debate... Which they did do? Which
0:09:52 > 0:09:52debate... Which they did do? Which they did do. You are saying that
0:09:52 > 0:09:54they did do. You are saying that
0:09:54 > 0:09:55they did do. You are saying that ICC?
0:09:55 > 0:09:56they did do. You are saying that ICC? The Parliament has passed
0:09:56 > 0:09:56they did do. You are saying that ICC? The Parliament has passed a
0:09:56 > 0:10:02ICC? The Parliament has passed a
0:10:02 > 0:10:02ICC? The Parliament has passed a motion. The Government has... You
0:10:02 > 0:10:03motion. The Government has... You are
0:10:03 > 0:10:04motion. The Government has... You are one of 34
0:10:04 > 0:10:04motion. The Government has... You are one of 34 African
0:10:04 > 0:10:06motion. The Government has... You are one of 34 African countries
0:10:06 > 0:10:08are one of 34 African countries that are one of 34 African countries
0:10:08 > 0:10:08are one of 34 African countries that signed up to the I csmt CC, what are
0:10:08 > 0:10:10signed up to the I csmt CC, what are the
0:10:10 > 0:10:14the implications for other African the
0:10:14 > 0:10:19countries? Well, I think if there is a feeling that the space that we
0:10:19 > 0:10:20to co—operate with the court, right, is
0:10:20 > 0:10:21to co—operate with the court, right, is shrinking and that
0:10:21 > 0:10:22to co—operate with the court, right, is shrinking and that it becomes
0:10:22 > 0:10:23is shrinking and that it becomes difficult
0:10:23 > 0:10:23is shrinking and that it becomes difficult for other countries to
0:10:23 > 0:10:24difficult for other countries to even
0:10:24 > 0:10:24difficult for other countries to even think
0:10:24 > 0:10:24difficult for other countries to even think of
0:10:24 > 0:10:26difficult for other countries to even think of themselves
0:10:26 > 0:10:26difficult for other countries to even think of themselves in the
0:10:26 > 0:10:27difficult for other countries to even think of themselves in the same
0:10:27 > 0:10:27difficult for other countries to situation
0:10:27 > 0:10:27even think of themselves in the same situation
0:10:27 > 0:10:27even think of themselves in the same situation sob have
0:10:27 > 0:10:27even think of themselves in the same situation sob have you
0:10:27 > 0:10:28even think of themselves in the same situation sob have you saidly
0:10:28 > 0:10:28even think of themselves in the same situation sob have you saidly they
0:10:28 > 0:10:30situation sob have you saidly they
0:10:30 > 0:10:31situation sob have you saidly they need to make ——
0:10:31 > 0:10:31situation sob have you saidly they need to make —— obviously
0:10:31 > 0:10:31situation sob have you saidly they need to make —— obviously they
0:10:31 > 0:10:31situation sob have you saidly they need to make —— obviously they need
0:10:31 > 0:10:32need to make —— obviously they need to
0:10:32 > 0:10:32need to make —— obviously they need to make their
0:10:32 > 0:10:32need to make —— obviously they need to make their own call
0:10:32 > 0:10:33need to make —— obviously they need to make their own call and
0:10:33 > 0:10:33need to make —— obviously they need to make their own call and draw
0:10:33 > 0:10:33to make their own call and draw their
0:10:33 > 0:10:33to make their own call and draw their own
0:10:33 > 0:10:34to make their own call and draw their own conclusions.
0:10:34 > 0:10:35to make their own call and draw You
0:10:35 > 0:10:35to make their own call and draw You have
0:10:35 > 0:10:36their own conclusions. You have
0:10:36 > 0:10:36their own conclusions. You have been sper heading
0:10:36 > 0:10:40their own conclusions. You have been sper heading efforts
0:10:40 > 0:10:40You have been sper heading efforts and
0:10:40 > 0:10:40You have been sper heading efforts and lobbying,
0:10:40 > 0:10:40You have been sper heading efforts and lobbying, you
0:10:40 > 0:10:41You have been sper heading efforts and lobbying, you have
0:10:41 > 0:10:41You have been sper heading efforts and lobbying, you have been
0:10:41 > 0:10:41You have been sper heading efforts and lobbying, you have been to
0:10:41 > 0:10:42You have been sper heading efforts and lobbying, you have been to say,
0:10:42 > 0:10:42and lobbying, you have been to say,
0:10:42 > 0:10:43and lobbying, you have been to say, we want the
0:10:43 > 0:10:43and lobbying, you have been to say, we want the AU
0:10:43 > 0:10:44and lobbying, you have been to say, we want the AU to
0:10:44 > 0:10:44and lobbying, you have been to say, we want the AU to say that the
0:10:44 > 0:10:44and lobbying, you have been to say, we want the AU to say that the ICC
0:10:44 > 0:10:45we want the AU to say that the ICC
0:10:45 > 0:10:46we want the AU to say that the ICC is doing is not correct. There
0:10:46 > 0:10:46we want the AU to say that the ICC is doing is not correct. There will
0:10:46 > 0:10:47is doing is not correct. There will
0:10:47 > 0:10:48is doing is not correct. There will be a meeting
0:10:48 > 0:10:48is doing is not correct. There will be a meeting in
0:10:48 > 0:10:49is doing is not correct. There will be a meeting in October
0:10:49 > 0:10:50is doing is not correct. There will be a meeting in October to
0:10:50 > 0:10:51is doing is not correct. There will be a meeting in October to discuss
0:10:51 > 0:10:53be a meeting in October to discuss
0:10:53 > 0:10:53be a meeting in October to discuss the African Union's
0:10:53 > 0:10:53be a meeting in October to discuss the African Union's relationship
0:10:53 > 0:10:54the African Union's relationship with
0:10:54 > 0:10:55the African Union's relationship with the
0:10:55 > 0:10:55the African Union's relationship with the ICC? I
0:10:55 > 0:10:55the African Union's relationship with the ICC? I think
0:10:55 > 0:10:55the African Union's relationship with the ICC? I think one
0:10:55 > 0:10:56the African Union's relationship with the ICC? I think one should
0:10:56 > 0:10:56with the ICC? I think one should always
0:10:56 > 0:10:56with the ICC? I think one should always look
0:10:56 > 0:10:59with the ICC? I think one should always look at
0:10:59 > 0:10:59with the ICC? I think one should always look at their relationships.
0:10:59 > 0:11:02always look at their relationships. I
0:11:02 > 0:11:02always look at their relationships. I think that's important to do
0:11:02 > 0:11:02I think that's important to do because
0:11:02 > 0:11:05I think that's important to do because as
0:11:05 > 0:11:05I think that's important to do because as of today the only
0:11:05 > 0:11:05I think that's important to do because as of today the only one
0:11:05 > 0:11:06because as of today the only one standing
0:11:06 > 0:11:08because as of today the only one standing trial at
0:11:08 > 0:11:08because as of today the only one standing trial at The Hague are
0:11:08 > 0:11:10standing trial at The Hague are Africans.
0:11:10 > 0:11:11standing trial at The Hague are Africans. So why
0:11:11 > 0:11:11standing trial at The Hague are Africans. So why shouldn't Africa
0:11:11 > 0:11:12Africans. So why shouldn't Africa
0:11:12 > 0:11:13Africans. So why shouldn't Africa examine its relationship with
0:11:13 > 0:11:13Africans. So why shouldn't Africa examine its relationship with the
0:11:13 > 0:11:14examine its relationship with the ICC?
0:11:14 > 0:11:17examine its relationship with the ICC? After all...
0:11:17 > 0:11:18examine its relationship with the ICC? After all... You say Africans,
0:11:18 > 0:11:18ICC? After all... You say Africans,
0:11:18 > 0:11:19ICC? After all... You say Africans, four out
0:11:19 > 0:11:20ICC? After all... You say Africans, four out of the eight
0:11:20 > 0:11:20ICC? After all... You say Africans, four out of the eight cases referred
0:11:20 > 0:11:22four out of the eight cases referred
0:11:22 > 0:11:24four out of the eight cases referred to the ICC, fourth
0:11:24 > 0:11:24four out of the eight cases referred to the ICC, fourth out of
0:11:24 > 0:11:24four out of the eight cases referred to the ICC, fourth out of the
0:11:24 > 0:11:24four out of the eight cases referred to the ICC, fourth out of the eight
0:11:24 > 0:11:25to the ICC, fourth out of the eight cases
0:11:25 > 0:11:26to the ICC, fourth out of the eight cases were
0:11:26 > 0:11:27to the ICC, fourth out of the eight cases were originated
0:11:27 > 0:11:27to the ICC, fourth out of the eight cases were originated by
0:11:27 > 0:11:28cases were originated by the cases were originated by
0:11:28 > 0:11:28cases were originated by the Government themselves and other
0:11:28 > 0:11:29cases were originated by the Government themselves and other two
0:11:29 > 0:11:29cases were originated by the were
0:11:29 > 0:11:30Government themselves and other two were
0:11:30 > 0:11:30Government themselves and other two were Saptioned by
0:11:30 > 0:11:31Government themselves and other two were Saptioned by the Government
0:11:31 > 0:11:31Government themselves and other two were Saptioned by the Government so
0:11:31 > 0:11:31were Saptioned by the Government so the
0:11:31 > 0:11:32were Saptioned by the Government so the majority
0:11:32 > 0:11:33were Saptioned by the Government so the majority of
0:11:33 > 0:11:34were Saptioned by the Government so the majority of cases are
0:11:34 > 0:11:34were Saptioned by the Government so the majority of cases are originated
0:11:34 > 0:11:36the majority of cases are originated by
0:11:36 > 0:11:36the majority of cases are originated by governments. How
0:11:36 > 0:11:37the majority of cases are originated by governments. How does
0:11:37 > 0:11:37the majority of cases are originated by governments. How does that
0:11:37 > 0:11:37the majority of cases are originated by governments. How does that mean
0:11:37 > 0:11:38by governments. How does that mean you
0:11:38 > 0:11:39by governments. How does that mean you should not examine
0:11:39 > 0:11:39by governments. How does that mean you should not examine your
0:11:39 > 0:11:40by governments. How does that mean relationship?
0:11:40 > 0:11:40you should not examine your relationship?
0:11:40 > 0:11:41you should not examine your relationship? It is
0:11:41 > 0:11:41you should not examine your relationship? It is more than than
0:11:41 > 0:11:42relationship? It is more than than
0:11:42 > 0:11:42relationship? It is more than than just examining
0:11:42 > 0:11:43relationship? It is more than than just examining the
0:11:43 > 0:11:44relationship? It is more than than just examining the relationship.
0:11:44 > 0:11:45just examining the relationship.
0:11:45 > 0:11:45just examining the relationship. Anybody lobbied anybody
0:11:45 > 0:11:46just examining the relationship. Anybody lobbied anybody to do
0:11:46 > 0:11:46just examining the relationship. anything.
0:11:46 > 0:11:47just examining the relationship. anything. We
0:11:47 > 0:11:47just examining the relationship. anything. We had
0:11:47 > 0:11:47just examining the relationship. anything. We had a
0:11:47 > 0:11:48Anybody lobbied anybody to do anything. We had a resolution,
0:11:48 > 0:11:48Anybody lobbied anybody to do anything. We had a resolution, a
0:11:48 > 0:11:50anything. We had a resolution, a decision
0:11:50 > 0:11:50anything. We had a resolution, a decision made by the EU Summit
0:11:50 > 0:11:51anything. We had a resolution, a decision made by the EU Summit in
0:11:51 > 0:11:51decision made by the EU Summit in July
0:11:51 > 0:11:51decision made by the EU Summit in July of
0:11:51 > 0:11:52decision made by the EU Summit in July of this
0:11:52 > 0:11:53decision made by the EU Summit in July of this year.
0:11:53 > 0:11:55July of this year. There was another July of this year.
0:11:55 > 0:11:55July of this year. There was another decision made in January of this
0:11:55 > 0:12:00decision made in January of this year,
0:12:00 > 0:12:01decision made in January of this year, OK? You cannot just have
0:12:01 > 0:12:04year, OK? You cannot just have decisions and not implement them.
0:12:04 > 0:12:04decisions and not implement them. You cannot have decisions
0:12:04 > 0:12:05decisions and not implement them. You cannot have decisions as
0:12:05 > 0:12:05You cannot have decisions as look at whether
0:12:05 > 0:12:09You cannot have decisions as look at whether the
0:12:09 > 0:12:09You cannot have decisions as look at The
0:12:09 > 0:12:09You cannot have decisions as look at The African
0:12:09 > 0:12:09You cannot have decisions as look at The African Union
0:12:09 > 0:12:10implemented or not. The African Union
0:12:10 > 0:12:10implemented or not. The African Union and the
0:12:10 > 0:12:10implemented or not. The African Union and the African
0:12:10 > 0:12:11The African Union and the African
0:12:11 > 0:12:11The African Union and the African Prime Minister
0:12:11 > 0:12:11The African Union and the African Prime Minister and they
0:12:11 > 0:12:12The African Union and the African Prime Minister and they all said
0:12:12 > 0:12:12Prime Minister and they all said
0:12:12 > 0:12:12Prime Minister and they all said this is
0:12:12 > 0:12:12Prime Minister and they all said this is not
0:12:12 > 0:12:13Prime Minister and they all said this is not a good
0:12:13 > 0:12:13Prime Minister and they all said this is not a good situation
0:12:13 > 0:12:13Prime Minister and they all said this is not a good situation that
0:12:13 > 0:12:13this is not a good situation that
0:12:13 > 0:12:14this is not a good situation that you have
0:12:14 > 0:12:16this is not a good situation that you have the
0:12:16 > 0:12:16this is not a good situation that you have the ICC cases
0:12:16 > 0:12:17this is not a good situation that you have the ICC cases which
0:12:17 > 0:12:17this is not a good situation that you have the ICC cases which are
0:12:17 > 0:12:17this is not a good situation that you have the ICC cases which are all
0:12:17 > 0:12:20you have the ICC cases which are all
0:12:20 > 0:12:21you have the ICC cases which are all African. The Tanzanian
0:12:21 > 0:12:21you have the ICC cases which are all African. The Tanzanian Government
0:12:21 > 0:12:22African. The Tanzanian Government
0:12:22 > 0:12:22African. The Tanzanian Government spokesperson has said
0:12:22 > 0:12:22African. The Tanzanian Government spokesperson has said just
0:12:22 > 0:12:22African. The Tanzanian Government spokesperson has said just now
0:12:22 > 0:12:23African. The Tanzanian Government spokesperson has said just now there
0:12:23 > 0:12:24spokesperson has said just now there is
0:12:24 > 0:12:28spokesperson has said just now there is a proposal
0:12:28 > 0:12:30coming in January for all African is a proposal
0:12:30 > 0:12:30coming in January for all African Union countries to withdraw from the
0:12:30 > 0:12:36Union countries to withdraw from the ICC
0:12:36 > 0:12:36ICC because the court is seen to be targeting African leaders. That
0:12:36 > 0:12:36ICC because the court is seen to be targeting African leaders. That was
0:12:36 > 0:12:36targeting African leaders. That was
0:12:36 > 0:12:37targeting African leaders. That was last January.
0:12:37 > 0:12:38targeting African leaders. That was last January. I
0:12:38 > 0:12:38targeting African leaders. That was last January. I can't speak for
0:12:38 > 0:12:40last January. I can't speak for Tanzania.
0:12:40 > 0:12:41last January. I can't speak for Tanzania. It is more than you
0:12:41 > 0:12:41last January. I can't speak for Tanzania. It is more than you saying
0:12:41 > 0:12:41Tanzania. It is more than you saying
0:12:41 > 0:12:41Tanzania. It is more than you saying it is
0:12:41 > 0:12:42Tanzania. It is more than you saying it is not
0:12:42 > 0:12:43Tanzania. It is more than you saying it is not right that
0:12:43 > 0:12:43Tanzania. It is more than you saying it is not right that the
0:12:43 > 0:12:43Tanzania. It is more than you saying it is not right that the president
0:12:43 > 0:12:43it is not right that the president and
0:12:43 > 0:12:44it is not right that the president and the
0:12:44 > 0:12:44it is not right that the president and the Vice—President are
0:12:44 > 0:12:44it is not right that the president and the Vice—President are at
0:12:44 > 0:12:44it is not right that the president and the Vice—President are at the
0:12:44 > 0:12:44and the Vice—President are at the ICC,
0:12:44 > 0:12:45and the Vice—President are at the ICC, you
0:12:45 > 0:12:46and the Vice—President are at the ICC, you are
0:12:46 > 0:12:47and the Vice—President are at the ICC, you are trying to get
0:12:47 > 0:12:48and the Vice—President are at the ICC, you are trying to get the
0:12:48 > 0:12:48ICC, you are trying to get the
0:12:48 > 0:12:49ICC, you are trying to get the African unions We
0:12:49 > 0:12:49ICC, you are trying to get the African unions We are not trying
0:12:49 > 0:12:49ICC, you are trying to get the African unions We are not trying to
0:12:49 > 0:12:50African unions We are not trying to
0:12:50 > 0:12:51African unions We are not trying to get anybody behind us.
0:12:51 > 0:12:51African unions We are not trying to discussion
0:12:51 > 0:12:52African unions We are not trying to discussion is
0:12:52 > 0:12:52African unions We are not trying to discussion is about
0:12:52 > 0:12:52get anybody behind us. The discussion is about
0:12:52 > 0:12:52get anybody behind us. The discussion is about the relationship
0:12:52 > 0:12:53discussion is about the relationship of
0:12:53 > 0:12:54discussion is about the relationship of Africa with
0:12:54 > 0:12:54discussion is about the relationship of Africa with the ICC.
0:12:54 > 0:12:55discussion is about the relationship of Africa with the ICC. It
0:12:55 > 0:12:55discussion is about the relationship of Africa with the ICC. It is a
0:12:55 > 0:12:56of Africa with the ICC. It is a relationship
0:12:56 > 0:12:56of Africa with the ICC. It is a relationship that must
0:12:56 > 0:12:57of Africa with the ICC. It is a relationship that must take place.
0:12:57 > 0:12:57relationship that must take place.
0:12:57 > 0:12:57relationship that must take place. It has
0:12:57 > 0:12:58relationship that must take place. It has to
0:12:58 > 0:12:59relationship that must take place. It has to take
0:12:59 > 0:12:59relationship that must take place. It has to take place. We
0:12:59 > 0:12:59relationship that must take place. It has to take place. We must
0:12:59 > 0:13:00relationship that must take place. examine
0:13:00 > 0:13:00It has to take place. We must examine
0:13:00 > 0:13:00It has to take place. We must examine the relationship.
0:13:00 > 0:13:01It has to take place. We must examine the relationship. We
0:13:01 > 0:13:02It has to take place. We must examine the relationship. We are
0:13:02 > 0:13:03It has to take place. We must examine the relationship. We are the
0:13:03 > 0:13:05examine the relationship. We are the
0:13:05 > 0:13:05examine the relationship. We are the largest constituency, yeah, party
0:13:05 > 0:13:06examine the relationship. We are the largest constituency, yeah, party to
0:13:06 > 0:13:06largest constituency, yeah, party to the
0:13:06 > 0:13:06largest constituency, yeah, party to the Rome
0:13:06 > 0:13:08largest constituency, yeah, party to the Rome statute.
0:13:08 > 0:13:08largest constituency, yeah, party to the Rome statute. We have made
0:13:08 > 0:13:08the Rome statute. We have made
0:13:08 > 0:13:09the Rome statute. We have made several requests
0:13:09 > 0:13:11the Rome statute. We have made several requests to
0:13:11 > 0:13:11the Rome statute. We have made several requests to the Security
0:13:11 > 0:13:12several requests to the Security Council,
0:13:12 > 0:13:13several requests to the Security Council, to
0:13:13 > 0:13:13several requests to the Security Council, to the
0:13:13 > 0:13:13several requests to the Security Council, to the court,
0:13:13 > 0:13:14several requests to the Security Council, to the court, to others
0:13:14 > 0:13:14several requests to the Security Council, to the court, to others on
0:13:14 > 0:13:16Council, to the court, to others on
0:13:16 > 0:13:16Council, to the court, to others on issues before the
0:13:16 > 0:13:16Council, to the court, to others on issues before the ICC
0:13:16 > 0:13:17Council, to the court, to others on issues before the ICC thinking
0:13:17 > 0:13:17Council, to the court, to others on issues before the ICC thinking and
0:13:17 > 0:13:18issues before the ICC thinking and
0:13:18 > 0:13:19issues before the ICC thinking and hopings that other
0:13:19 > 0:13:19issues before the ICC thinking and hopings that other State parties
0:13:19 > 0:13:19hopings that other State parties would
0:13:19 > 0:13:20hopings that other State parties would actually
0:13:20 > 0:13:20hopings that other State parties would actually look
0:13:20 > 0:13:20hopings that other State parties would actually look at
0:13:20 > 0:13:21hopings that other State parties would actually look at the
0:13:21 > 0:13:21hopings that other State parties would actually look at the request
0:13:21 > 0:13:21would actually look at the request
0:13:21 > 0:13:22would actually look at the request we are
0:13:22 > 0:13:22would actually look at the request we are making and at
0:13:22 > 0:13:22would actually look at the request we are making and at least
0:13:22 > 0:13:23would actually look at the request we are making and at least respond
0:13:23 > 0:13:23we are making and at least respond
0:13:23 > 0:13:24we are making and at least respond to us,
0:13:24 > 0:13:25we are making and at least respond to us, right? And
0:13:25 > 0:13:26we are making and at least respond to us, right? And for a long
0:13:26 > 0:13:26we are making and at least respond to us, right? And for a long time
0:13:26 > 0:13:28to us, right? And for a long time there
0:13:28 > 0:13:28to us, right? And for a long time there is no response and only
0:13:28 > 0:13:28to us, right? And for a long time there is no response and only when
0:13:28 > 0:13:29there is no response and only when Africa
0:13:29 > 0:13:29there is no response and only when Africa starts getting together
0:13:29 > 0:13:30there is no response and only when Africa starts getting together is
0:13:30 > 0:13:30Africa starts getting together is
0:13:30 > 0:13:31Africa starts getting together is when we
0:13:31 > 0:13:31Africa starts getting together is when we get very
0:13:31 > 0:13:32Africa starts getting together is when we get very hurried responses
0:13:32 > 0:13:32when we get very hurried responses
0:13:32 > 0:13:32when we get very hurried responses given to
0:13:32 > 0:13:33when we get very hurried responses given to us.
0:13:33 > 0:13:33when we get very hurried responses given to us. You
0:13:33 > 0:13:33when we get very hurried responses given to us. You know,
0:13:33 > 0:13:33when we get very hurried responses given to us. You know, so
0:13:33 > 0:13:34when we get very hurried responses given to us. You know, so it
0:13:34 > 0:13:34when we get very hurried responses given to us. You know, so it has
0:13:34 > 0:13:34when we get very hurried responses given to us. You know, so it has to
0:13:34 > 0:13:35given to us. You know, so it has to
0:13:35 > 0:13:36given to us. You know, so it has to be a relationship of partnership.
0:13:36 > 0:13:36given to us. You know, so it has to be a relationship of partnership. It
0:13:36 > 0:13:37be a relationship of partnership. It has
0:13:37 > 0:13:39be a relationship of partnership. It has to be a
0:13:39 > 0:13:40be a relationship of partnership. It has to be a relationship... All
0:13:40 > 0:13:42has to be a relationship... All African
0:13:42 > 0:13:44has to be a relationship... All African countries...
0:13:44 > 0:13:44has to be a relationship... All African countries... Af Africans
0:13:44 > 0:13:44has to be a relationship... All African countries... Af Africans are
0:13:44 > 0:13:45African countries... Af Africans are
0:13:45 > 0:13:47African countries... Af Africans are junior partners.
0:13:47 > 0:13:47junior partners.
0:13:47 > 0:13:49junior partners. The minister said
0:13:49 > 0:13:50junior partners. The minister said the ICC
0:13:50 > 0:13:50junior partners. The minister said the ICC is guilty
0:13:50 > 0:13:50The minister said the ICC is guilty
0:13:50 > 0:13:53The minister said the ICC is guilty of applying
0:13:53 > 0:13:53The minister said the ICC is guilty policy,
0:13:53 > 0:13:53The minister said the ICC is guilty policy, I
0:13:53 > 0:13:54of applying a double standard policy, I
0:13:54 > 0:13:54of applying a double standard policy, I am asking whether
0:13:54 > 0:13:54of applying a double standard policy, I am asking whether you
0:13:54 > 0:13:57policy, I am asking whether you agree
0:13:57 > 0:13:57agree with what he said last year, the
0:13:57 > 0:13:57agree with what he said last year, the ICC
0:13:57 > 0:13:58agree with what he said last year, the ICC is
0:13:58 > 0:13:58agree with what he said last year, the ICC is guilty
0:13:58 > 0:13:59agree with what he said last year, the ICC is guilty of applying
0:13:59 > 0:13:59agree with what he said last year, the ICC is guilty of applying a
0:13:59 > 0:13:59the ICC is guilty of applying a double
0:13:59 > 0:14:01the ICC is guilty of applying a double standard
0:14:01 > 0:14:01the ICC is guilty of applying a double standard policy which pushed
0:14:01 > 0:14:02double standard policy which pushed
0:14:02 > 0:14:02double standard policy which pushed the African
0:14:02 > 0:14:03double standard policy which pushed the African countries
0:14:03 > 0:14:03double standard policy which pushed the African countries to consider
0:14:03 > 0:14:04the African countries to consider withdrawing
0:14:04 > 0:14:04the African countries to consider withdrawing from
0:14:04 > 0:14:04the African countries to consider withdrawing from The
0:14:04 > 0:14:04the African countries to consider withdrawing from The Hague
0:14:04 > 0:14:05the African countries to consider withdrawing from The Hague based
0:14:05 > 0:14:05withdrawing from The Hague based court?
0:14:05 > 0:14:05withdrawing from The Hague based court? Is he
0:14:05 > 0:14:06withdrawing from The Hague based court? Is he right?
0:14:06 > 0:14:06withdrawing from The Hague based It
0:14:06 > 0:14:06court? Is he right? It
0:14:06 > 0:14:07court? Is he right? It is a
0:14:07 > 0:14:07court? Is he right? It is a perception,
0:14:07 > 0:14:07court? Is he right? It is a perception, it is
0:14:07 > 0:14:07court? Is he right? It is a perception, it is out
0:14:07 > 0:14:16court? Is he right? It is a perception, it is out there.
0:14:16 > 0:14:16It is a perception, it is out there. But do you agree with it? It is
0:14:16 > 0:14:21It is a perception, it is out there. perception
0:14:21 > 0:14:22It is a perception, it is out there. perception that is there. But do
0:14:22 > 0:14:22It is a perception, it is out there. perception that is there. But do you
0:14:22 > 0:14:22perception that is there. But do you agree
0:14:22 > 0:14:22perception that is there. But do you agree with
0:14:22 > 0:14:26perception that is there. But do you agree with it?
0:14:26 > 0:14:26perception that is there. But do you agree with it? Sometimes it can
0:14:26 > 0:14:26perception that is there. But do you agree with it? Sometimes it can be
0:14:26 > 0:14:29perception that is there. But do you impossible
0:14:29 > 0:14:30impossible to see the truth. But do impossible
0:14:30 > 0:14:30impossible to see the truth. But do you have
0:14:30 > 0:14:32impossible to see the truth. But do you have any sympathy
0:14:32 > 0:14:32impossible to see the truth. But do you have any sympathy with his view
0:14:32 > 0:14:34you have any sympathy with his view when
0:14:34 > 0:14:49when he is talking with President Kenny
0:14:49 > 0:14:49Kenny after. You have got the vice Kenny
0:14:49 > 0:14:49Kenny after. You have got the vice president, of the DRC. But
0:14:49 > 0:14:49Kenny after. You have got the vice president, of the DRC. But are
0:14:49 > 0:14:50Kenny after. You have got the vice president, of the DRC. But are you
0:14:50 > 0:14:50president, of the DRC. But are you
0:14:50 > 0:14:50president, of the DRC. But are you saying that
0:14:50 > 0:14:51president, of the DRC. But are you saying that Africans
0:14:51 > 0:14:51president, of the DRC. But are you saying that Africans should
0:14:51 > 0:14:51president, of the DRC. But are you saying that Africans should just
0:14:51 > 0:14:51president, of the DRC. But are you saying that Africans should just ask
0:14:51 > 0:14:53saying that Africans should just ask for
0:14:53 > 0:14:54saying that Africans should just ask for an exception
0:14:54 > 0:14:55saying that Africans should just ask for an exception for all
0:14:55 > 0:14:56saying that Africans should just ask for an exception for all these
0:14:56 > 0:14:56saying that Africans should just ask for an exception for all these to
0:14:56 > 0:14:56saying that Africans should just ask for an exception for all these to be
0:14:56 > 0:14:56for an exception for all these to be part
0:14:56 > 0:14:59for an exception for all these to be part of the
0:14:59 > 0:14:59for an exception for all these to be part of the ICC system? I think
0:14:59 > 0:15:00for an exception for all these to be part of the ICC system? I think if
0:15:00 > 0:15:00for an exception for all these to be you
0:15:00 > 0:15:00part of the ICC system? I think if you
0:15:00 > 0:15:01part of the ICC system? I think if you look at
0:15:01 > 0:15:01part of the ICC system? I think if you look at the
0:15:01 > 0:15:01part of the ICC system? I think if you look at the requests
0:15:01 > 0:15:01part of the ICC system? I think if you look at the requests that are
0:15:01 > 0:15:04you look at the requests that are
0:15:04 > 0:15:05you look at the requests that are there, you might not
0:15:05 > 0:15:05you look at the requests that are there, you might not draw those
0:15:05 > 0:15:06there, you might not draw those conclusions
0:15:06 > 0:15:07there, you might not draw those conclusions that you are drawing.
0:15:07 > 0:15:08conclusions that you are drawing. The
0:15:08 > 0:15:09conclusions that you are drawing. The difference
0:15:09 > 0:15:09conclusions that you are drawing. The difference that
0:15:09 > 0:15:09conclusions that you are drawing. The difference that they
0:15:09 > 0:15:09conclusions that you are drawing. The difference that they raise
0:15:09 > 0:15:10The difference that they raise between
0:15:10 > 0:15:13The difference that they raise between Kenya and
0:15:13 > 0:15:13The difference that they raise between Kenya and Sudan, and
0:15:13 > 0:15:13The difference that they raise between Kenya and Sudan, and we
0:15:13 > 0:15:14The difference that they raise talked
0:15:14 > 0:15:14between Kenya and Sudan, and we have talked
0:15:14 > 0:15:14between Kenya and Sudan, and we have talked on behalf
0:15:14 > 0:15:14between Kenya and Sudan, and we have talked on behalf of
0:15:14 > 0:15:15between Kenya and Sudan, and we have talked on behalf of Sudan many
0:15:15 > 0:15:17talked on behalf of Sudan many times,
0:15:17 > 0:15:18talked on behalf of Sudan many times, because
0:15:18 > 0:15:18talked on behalf of Sudan many times, because Sudan is
0:15:18 > 0:15:18talked on behalf of Sudan many times, because Sudan is a
0:15:18 > 0:15:19talked on behalf of Sudan many times, because Sudan is a key player
0:15:19 > 0:15:19times, because Sudan is a key player in
0:15:19 > 0:15:20times, because Sudan is a key player in ensuring that
0:15:20 > 0:15:20times, because Sudan is a key player in ensuring that there
0:15:20 > 0:15:20times, because Sudan is a key player in ensuring that there is
0:15:20 > 0:15:21times, because Sudan is a key player in ensuring that there is peace
0:15:21 > 0:15:21times, because Sudan is a key player in ensuring that there is peace in
0:15:21 > 0:15:21in ensuring that there is peace in
0:15:21 > 0:15:24in ensuring that there is peace in that part of Africa.
0:15:24 > 0:15:25in ensuring that there is peace in that part of Africa. But Kenny
0:15:25 > 0:15:25in ensuring that there is peace in that part of Africa. But Kenny is
0:15:25 > 0:15:25in ensuring that there is peace in that part of Africa. But Kenny is a
0:15:25 > 0:15:26that part of Africa. But Kenny is a state
0:15:26 > 0:15:26that part of Africa. But Kenny is a state party to the
0:15:26 > 0:15:30that part of Africa. But Kenny is a state party to the statute.
0:15:30 > 0:15:30that part of Africa. But Kenny is a state party to the statute. And
0:15:30 > 0:15:30that part of Africa. But Kenny is a state party to the statute. And what
0:15:30 > 0:15:31that part of Africa. But Kenny is a of
0:15:31 > 0:15:31state party to the statute. And what of
0:15:31 > 0:15:31state party to the statute. And what of these other
0:15:31 > 0:15:31state party to the statute. And what of these other countries that
0:15:31 > 0:15:32state party to the statute. And what of these other countries that I
0:15:32 > 0:15:35of these other countries that I mentioned?
0:15:35 > 0:15:36of these other countries that I mentioned? Can Africans stand
0:15:36 > 0:15:36of these other countries that I together
0:15:36 > 0:15:37mentioned? Can Africans stand together
0:15:37 > 0:15:37mentioned? Can Africans stand together on this issue, or
0:15:37 > 0:15:37mentioned? Can Africans stand together on this issue, or are
0:15:37 > 0:15:38mentioned? Can Africans stand together on this issue, or are you
0:15:38 > 0:15:38together on this issue, or are you going
0:15:38 > 0:15:38together on this issue, or are you going to
0:15:38 > 0:15:38together on this issue, or are you going to be
0:15:38 > 0:15:39together on this issue, or are you going to be cherry
0:15:39 > 0:15:39together on this issue, or are you going to be cherry picking which
0:15:39 > 0:15:40going to be cherry picking which countries
0:15:40 > 0:15:40going to be cherry picking which countries should
0:15:40 > 0:15:40going to be cherry picking which countries should remain
0:15:40 > 0:15:41going to be cherry picking which countries should remain part
0:15:41 > 0:15:41going to be cherry picking which countries should remain part of
0:15:41 > 0:15:41going to be cherry picking which countries should remain part of the
0:15:41 > 0:15:41going to be cherry picking which ICC
0:15:41 > 0:15:42countries should remain part of the ICC
0:15:42 > 0:15:43countries should remain part of the ICC and which shouldn't?
0:15:43 > 0:15:47countries should remain part of the ICC and which shouldn't? I
0:15:47 > 0:15:47countries should remain part of the ICC and which shouldn't? I think
0:15:47 > 0:15:48ICC and which shouldn't? I think every
0:15:48 > 0:15:48ICC and which shouldn't? I think every country commits
0:15:48 > 0:15:48ICC and which shouldn't? I think every country commits itself to
0:15:48 > 0:15:52every country commits itself to international
0:15:52 > 0:15:53every country commits itself to international instruments. It
0:15:53 > 0:15:53every country commits itself to ratifies
0:15:53 > 0:15:53international instruments. It ratifies
0:15:53 > 0:15:54international instruments. It ratifies and signs
0:15:54 > 0:15:54international instruments. It ratifies and signs these without
0:15:54 > 0:15:55ratifies and signs these without asking
0:15:55 > 0:15:55ratifies and signs these without asking others
0:15:55 > 0:15:56ratifies and signs these without asking others whether it
0:15:56 > 0:15:56ratifies and signs these without asking others whether it should
0:15:56 > 0:15:56ratifies and signs these without party
0:15:56 > 0:15:56asking others whether it should be party
0:15:56 > 0:15:58asking others whether it should be party or not.
0:15:58 > 0:15:59asking others whether it should be party or not. We did
0:15:59 > 0:15:59asking others whether it should be party or not. We did not
0:15:59 > 0:15:59asking others whether it should be party or not. We did not ask for
0:15:59 > 0:15:59asking others whether it should be party or not. We did not ask for the
0:15:59 > 0:16:01party or not. We did not ask for the others,
0:16:01 > 0:16:01party or not. We did not ask for the others, so
0:16:01 > 0:16:02party or not. We did not ask for the others, so obviously
0:16:02 > 0:16:02party or not. We did not ask for the others, so obviously decisions
0:16:02 > 0:16:02party or not. We did not ask for the others, so obviously decisions will
0:16:02 > 0:16:03others, so obviously decisions will have
0:16:03 > 0:16:03others, so obviously decisions will have to be
0:16:03 > 0:16:03others, so obviously decisions will have to be met
0:16:03 > 0:16:03others, so obviously decisions will have to be met by
0:16:03 > 0:16:05have to be met by individual have to be met by
0:16:05 > 0:16:06have to be met by individual commissions.
0:16:06 > 0:16:06have to be met by individual commissions. And
0:16:06 > 0:16:07have to be met by individual commissions. And we weren't
0:16:07 > 0:16:08have to be met by individual commissions. And we weren't just
0:16:08 > 0:16:08commissions. And we weren't just
0:16:08 > 0:16:08commissions. And we weren't just talking about
0:16:08 > 0:16:08commissions. And we weren't just talking about the
0:16:08 > 0:16:11commissions. And we weren't just talking about the ICC's
0:16:11 > 0:16:11talking about the ICC's treatment of Kenya alone.
0:16:11 > 0:16:12talking about the ICC's treatment of Kenya alone. There
0:16:12 > 0:16:12talking about the ICC's treatment of Kenya alone. There is
0:16:12 > 0:16:12talking about the ICC's treatment of Kenya alone. There is also
0:16:12 > 0:16:12talking about the ICC's treatment of Kenya alone. There is also this
0:16:12 > 0:16:13talking about the ICC's treatment of that
0:16:13 > 0:16:13Kenya alone. There is also this fact that
0:16:13 > 0:16:13Kenya alone. There is also this fact that it is
0:16:13 > 0:16:15Kenya alone. There is also this fact that it is African
0:16:15 > 0:16:15Kenya alone. There is also this fact that it is African leaders only
0:16:15 > 0:16:17that it is African leaders only who that it is African leaders only
0:16:17 > 0:16:21that it is African leaders only who have been perceived.
0:16:21 > 0:16:22that it is African leaders only who have been perceived. I
0:16:22 > 0:16:25that it is African leaders only who have been perceived. I am a state
0:16:25 > 0:16:26have been perceived. I am a state party, and the Rome Statute
0:16:26 > 0:16:29have been perceived. I am a state party, and the Rome Statute is
0:16:29 > 0:16:31impartial and objective. We signed on
0:16:31 > 0:16:32on to it because we actually believe in what
0:16:32 > 0:16:34on to it because we actually believe in what is enshrined in
0:16:34 > 0:16:34on to it because we actually believe in what is enshrined in it.
0:16:34 > 0:16:34on to it because we actually believe in what is enshrined in it. We
0:16:34 > 0:16:35on to it because we actually believe in what is enshrined in it. We do
0:16:35 > 0:16:35in what is enshrined in it. We do not
0:16:35 > 0:16:36in what is enshrined in it. We do not like the
0:16:36 > 0:16:36in what is enshrined in it. We do not like the weather goalposts
0:16:36 > 0:16:36in what is enshrined in it. We do not like the weather goalposts keep
0:16:36 > 0:16:38not like the weather goalposts keep moving.
0:16:38 > 0:16:40not like the weather goalposts keep moving. We do
0:16:40 > 0:16:40not like the weather goalposts keep moving. We do not like the way
0:16:40 > 0:16:40not like the weather goalposts keep moving. We do not like the way the
0:16:40 > 0:16:40moving. We do not like the way the space
0:16:40 > 0:16:40moving. We do not like the way the space for
0:16:40 > 0:16:41moving. We do not like the way the space for cooperation
0:16:41 > 0:16:41moving. We do not like the way the space for cooperation with the
0:16:41 > 0:16:41moving. We do not like the way the space for cooperation with the ICC
0:16:41 > 0:16:41space for cooperation with the ICC keeps
0:16:41 > 0:16:43space for cooperation with the ICC keeps shrinking.
0:16:43 > 0:16:43space for cooperation with the ICC keeps shrinking. That
0:16:43 > 0:16:44space for cooperation with the ICC keeps shrinking. That is
0:16:44 > 0:16:47space for cooperation with the ICC keeps shrinking. That is a
0:16:47 > 0:16:47keeps shrinking. That is a problem that we have with it.
0:16:47 > 0:16:47keeps shrinking. That is a problem that we have with it. It
0:16:47 > 0:16:47keeps shrinking. That is a problem that we have with it. It is
0:16:47 > 0:16:48keeps shrinking. That is a problem that we have with it. It is an
0:16:48 > 0:16:48keeps shrinking. That is a problem that we have with it. It is an issue
0:16:48 > 0:16:52that we have with it. It is an issue that
0:16:52 > 0:16:52assembly of state parties, because that
0:16:52 > 0:16:58assembly of state parties, because that is
0:16:58 > 0:17:00Statute gather to discuss issues that relate to the court.
0:17:00 > 0:17:00Statute gather to discuss issues that relate to the court. What
0:17:00 > 0:17:00Statute gather to discuss issues that relate to the court. What do
0:17:00 > 0:17:01that relate to the court. What do you
0:17:01 > 0:17:02that relate to the court. What do you say to
0:17:02 > 0:17:02that relate to the court. What do you say to Kofi Annan when he says
0:17:02 > 0:17:03you say to Kofi Annan when he says the
0:17:03 > 0:17:04you say to Kofi Annan when he says the trials are not
0:17:04 > 0:17:04you say to Kofi Annan when he says the trials are not an assault
0:17:04 > 0:17:05you say to Kofi Annan when he says the trials are not an assault on
0:17:05 > 0:17:05the trials are not an assault on Kenyan
0:17:05 > 0:17:05the trials are not an assault on Kenyan sovereignty,
0:17:05 > 0:17:06the trials are not an assault on Kenyan sovereignty, but
0:17:06 > 0:17:06the trials are not an assault on Kenyan sovereignty, but the
0:17:06 > 0:17:10the trials are not an assault on Kenyan sovereignty, but the first
0:17:10 > 0:17:13Kenyan sovereignty, but the first
0:17:13 > 0:17:13Kenyan sovereignty, but the first step, but Kenyans
0:17:13 > 0:17:16Kenyan sovereignty, but the first step, but Kenyans want
0:17:16 > 0:17:16Kenyan sovereignty, but the first step, but Kenyans want deep early
0:17:16 > 0:17:17Kenyan sovereignty, but the first step, but Kenyans want deep early to
0:17:17 > 0:17:21step, but Kenyans want deep early to have
0:17:21 > 0:17:21step, but Kenyans want deep early to have peace. 30 million
0:17:21 > 0:17:21step, but Kenyans want deep early to have peace. 30 million Kenyans
0:17:21 > 0:17:22step, but Kenyans want deep early to have peace. 30 million Kenyans spoke
0:17:22 > 0:17:24have peace. 30 million Kenyans spoke
0:17:24 > 0:17:24have peace. 30 million Kenyans spoke at the elections, and
0:17:24 > 0:17:24have peace. 30 million Kenyans spoke at the elections, and decided they
0:17:24 > 0:17:25at the elections, and decided they were
0:17:25 > 0:17:27at the elections, and decided they were going to
0:17:27 > 0:17:27at the elections, and decided they were going to elect
0:17:27 > 0:17:28at the elections, and decided they were going to elect his
0:17:28 > 0:17:28at the elections, and decided they were going to elect his Excellency
0:17:28 > 0:17:34were going to elect his Excellency
0:17:34 > 0:17:34were going to elect his Excellency as their president, . I
0:17:34 > 0:17:34were going to elect his Excellency as their president, . I do
0:17:34 > 0:17:34were going to elect his Excellency as their president, . I do not
0:17:34 > 0:17:35as their president, . I do not
0:17:35 > 0:17:35as their president, . I do not expect anybody
0:17:35 > 0:17:35as their president, . I do not expect anybody asked
0:17:35 > 0:17:35as their president, . I do not expect anybody asked to
0:17:35 > 0:17:35as their president, . I do not expect anybody asked to speak
0:17:35 > 0:17:36as their president, . I do not expect anybody asked to speak for
0:17:36 > 0:17:37expect anybody asked to speak for
0:17:37 > 0:17:37expect anybody asked to speak for Kenyans. They
0:17:37 > 0:17:38expect anybody asked to speak for Kenyans. They can
0:17:38 > 0:17:39expect anybody asked to speak for themselves,
0:17:39 > 0:17:39expect anybody asked to speak for themselves, and
0:17:39 > 0:17:39Kenyans. They can speak for themselves, and
0:17:39 > 0:17:40Kenyans. They can speak for themselves, and that they have
0:17:40 > 0:17:40themselves, and that they have
0:17:40 > 0:17:40themselves, and that they have spoken loudly
0:17:40 > 0:17:40themselves, and that they have spoken loudly and
0:17:40 > 0:17:43themselves, and that they have spoken loudly and clearly.
0:17:43 > 0:17:43themselves, and that they have spoken loudly and clearly. If one
0:17:43 > 0:17:44spoken loudly and clearly. If one could
0:17:44 > 0:17:44spoken loudly and clearly. If one could speak for
0:17:44 > 0:17:47spoken loudly and clearly. If one could speak for Kenya,
0:17:47 > 0:17:49could speak for Kenya, it doesn't could speak for Kenya,
0:17:49 > 0:17:50could speak for Kenya, it doesn't mean... So
0:17:50 > 0:17:52could speak for Kenya, it doesn't mean... So you are telling
0:17:52 > 0:17:52could speak for Kenya, it doesn't mean... So you are telling us
0:17:52 > 0:17:54could speak for Kenya, it doesn't mean... So you are telling us now
0:17:54 > 0:17:54mean... So you are telling us now
0:17:54 > 0:17:54mean... So you are telling us now that Kenya will
0:17:54 > 0:17:55mean... So you are telling us now that Kenya will withdraw
0:17:55 > 0:17:55mean... So you are telling us now that Kenya will withdraw from
0:17:55 > 0:17:55mean... So you are telling us now that Kenya will withdraw from the
0:17:55 > 0:17:55that Kenya will withdraw from the
0:17:55 > 0:17:56that Kenya will withdraw from the ICC, and
0:17:56 > 0:17:58that Kenya will withdraw from the ICC, and you are not worried
0:17:58 > 0:17:59that Kenya will withdraw from the ICC, and you are not worried about
0:17:59 > 0:17:59ICC, and you are not worried about
0:17:59 > 0:18:00ICC, and you are not worried about Parliament taking
0:18:00 > 0:18:00Parliament taking that decision, and Parliament taking
0:18:00 > 0:18:04Parliament taking that decision, and you as
0:18:04 > 0:18:04Parliament taking that decision, and you as Foreign Minister you're
0:18:04 > 0:18:05Parliament taking that decision, and you as Foreign Minister you're not
0:18:05 > 0:18:06you as Foreign Minister you're not
0:18:06 > 0:18:06you as Foreign Minister you're not worried about this
0:18:06 > 0:18:07you as Foreign Minister you're not worried about this effect
0:18:07 > 0:18:07you as Foreign Minister you're not worried about this effect on
0:18:07 > 0:18:07you as Foreign Minister you're not worried about this effect on your
0:18:07 > 0:18:11worried about this effect on your
0:18:11 > 0:18:11worried about this effect on your reputation? Countries do
0:18:11 > 0:18:12worried about this effect on your reputation? Countries do withdraw
0:18:12 > 0:18:12reputation? Countries do withdraw
0:18:12 > 0:18:13reputation? Countries do withdraw from international instruments,
0:18:13 > 0:18:13reputation? Countries do withdraw I
0:18:13 > 0:18:13from international instruments, and I
0:18:13 > 0:18:14from international instruments, and I can give you
0:18:14 > 0:18:15from international instruments, and I can give you a whole list of
0:18:15 > 0:18:15I can give you a whole list of
0:18:15 > 0:18:15I can give you a whole list of countries that have
0:18:15 > 0:18:15I can give you a whole list of countries that have withdrawn
0:18:15 > 0:18:16I can give you a whole list of countries that have withdrawn from
0:18:16 > 0:18:16countries that have withdrawn from
0:18:16 > 0:18:21countries that have withdrawn from international instruments.
0:18:21 > 0:18:21countries that have withdrawn from international instruments. If
0:18:21 > 0:18:21countries that have withdrawn from international instruments. If it
0:18:21 > 0:18:21international instruments. If it
0:18:21 > 0:18:23international instruments. If it chose to
0:18:23 > 0:18:25chose to withdraw, which is not the chose to
0:18:25 > 0:18:25chose to withdraw, which is not the case right now.
0:18:25 > 0:18:26chose to withdraw, which is not the case right now. We
0:18:26 > 0:18:26chose to withdraw, which is not the case right now. We are co—operating
0:18:26 > 0:18:26case right now. We are co—operating
0:18:26 > 0:18:27case right now. We are co—operating and we are
0:18:27 > 0:18:27case right now. We are co—operating and we are founding
0:18:27 > 0:18:28case right now. We are co—operating and we are founding members
0:18:28 > 0:18:28case right now. We are co—operating and we are founding members of
0:18:28 > 0:18:28case right now. We are co—operating and we are founding members of the
0:18:28 > 0:18:29and we are founding members of the
0:18:29 > 0:18:30and we are founding members of the court. But if
0:18:30 > 0:18:30and we are founding members of the court. But if it
0:18:30 > 0:18:31and we are founding members of the court. But if it did happen, it
0:18:31 > 0:18:31court. But if it did happen, it should
0:18:31 > 0:18:31court. But if it did happen, it should not
0:18:31 > 0:18:32court. But if it did happen, it should not be
0:18:32 > 0:18:32court. But if it did happen, it should not be seen as
0:18:32 > 0:18:32court. But if it did happen, it should not be seen as something
0:18:32 > 0:18:32should not be seen as something
0:18:32 > 0:18:33should not be seen as something happening outside
0:18:33 > 0:18:33should not be seen as something happening outside the
0:18:33 > 0:18:36should not be seen as something happening outside the norm.
0:18:36 > 0:18:40should not be seen as something happening outside the norm. We
0:18:40 > 0:18:40happening outside the norm. We saw that terrible violence. Has Kenya
0:18:40 > 0:18:40that terrible violence. Has Kenya now,
0:18:40 > 0:18:44that terrible violence. Has Kenya now, you talked
0:18:44 > 0:18:44now, you talked about reconciliation, as it put that
0:18:44 > 0:18:44reconciliation, as it put that
0:18:44 > 0:18:48reconciliation, as it put that ethnic —based
0:18:48 > 0:18:52ethnic —based hostility behind it? Absolutely. Kenyans
0:18:52 > 0:18:52ethnic —based hostility behind it? in their millions. They stood in
0:18:52 > 0:18:57in their millions. They stood in
0:18:57 > 0:18:58line for long periods of time. They in their millions. They stood in
0:18:58 > 0:18:59line for long periods of time. They came out at 18 years
0:18:59 > 0:19:00came out at 18 years old, at a came out at 18 years
0:19:00 > 0:19:00came out at 18 years old, at a hundred years old,
0:19:00 > 0:19:05came out at 18 years old, at a hundred years old, because they
0:19:05 > 0:19:06them. They knew that there was a new hundred years old, because they
0:19:06 > 0:19:14them. They knew that there was a new dispensation, a new constitution.
0:19:14 > 0:19:15Kenyans have confidence in their dispensation, a new constitution.
0:19:15 > 0:19:15country, and they have hope going forward
0:19:15 > 0:19:15country, and they have hope going forward that
0:19:15 > 0:19:16country, and they have hope going forward that everything
0:19:16 > 0:19:16country, and they have hope going forward that everything will be
0:19:16 > 0:19:19country, and they have hope going forward that everything will be OK.
0:19:19 > 0:19:19country, and they have hope going But
0:19:19 > 0:19:19country, and they have hope going But they
0:19:19 > 0:19:19country, and they have hope going But they want
0:19:19 > 0:19:20forward that everything will be OK. But they want
0:19:20 > 0:19:22forward that everything will be OK. But they want the accountability.
0:19:22 > 0:19:23But they want the accountability.
0:19:23 > 0:19:24But they want the accountability. They were traumatised
0:19:24 > 0:19:24But they want the accountability. violence.
0:19:24 > 0:19:25They were traumatised by that violence.
0:19:25 > 0:19:25They were traumatised by that violence. They want to know
0:19:25 > 0:19:26They were traumatised by that violence. They want to know who
0:19:26 > 0:19:26violence. They want to know who is violence. They want to know who
0:19:26 > 0:19:27violence. They want to know who is going to
0:19:27 > 0:19:27violence. They want to know who is going to stand and be
0:19:27 > 0:19:27violence. They want to know who is going to stand and be tried
0:19:27 > 0:19:27violence. They want to know who is going to stand and be tried for
0:19:27 > 0:19:29going to stand and be tried for
0:19:29 > 0:19:30going to stand and be tried for that.
0:19:30 > 0:19:30going to stand and be tried for that. Countries
0:19:30 > 0:19:31going to stand and be tried for that. Countries deal with these
0:19:31 > 0:19:31that. Countries deal with these
0:19:31 > 0:19:33that. Countries deal with these issues differently.
0:19:33 > 0:19:33that. Countries deal with these issues differently. Ireland,
0:19:33 > 0:19:33that. Countries deal with these issues differently. Ireland, there
0:19:33 > 0:19:34issues differently. Ireland, there were
0:19:34 > 0:19:36issues differently. Ireland, there were atrocities committed
0:19:36 > 0:19:37were atrocities committed there, were atrocities committed
0:19:37 > 0:19:37were atrocities committed there, they sat around
0:19:37 > 0:19:38were atrocities committed there, they sat around a
0:19:38 > 0:19:38were atrocities committed there, they sat around a table, they
0:19:38 > 0:19:38were atrocities committed there, they sat around a table, they had
0:19:38 > 0:19:39they sat around a table, they had
0:19:39 > 0:19:41they sat around a table, they had truth and
0:19:41 > 0:19:41they sat around a table, they had truth and reconciliation. So
0:19:41 > 0:19:41they sat around a table, they had truth and reconciliation. So that
0:19:41 > 0:19:42they sat around a table, they had truth and reconciliation. So that is
0:19:42 > 0:19:47truth and reconciliation. So that is
0:19:47 > 0:19:47truth and reconciliation. So that is the alternative? Are you
0:19:47 > 0:19:48truth and reconciliation. So that is the alternative? Are you telling
0:19:48 > 0:19:48truth and reconciliation. So that is the alternative? Are you telling me
0:19:48 > 0:19:48the alternative? Are you telling me that
0:19:48 > 0:19:49the alternative? Are you telling me that the violence
0:19:49 > 0:19:49the alternative? Are you telling me that the violence that
0:19:49 > 0:19:50the alternative? Are you telling me that the violence that was
0:19:50 > 0:19:50the alternative? Are you telling me that the violence that was committed
0:19:50 > 0:19:50that the violence that was committed
0:19:50 > 0:19:50that the violence that was committed there was
0:19:50 > 0:19:51that the violence that was committed there was less
0:19:51 > 0:19:51that the violence that was committed there was less than
0:19:51 > 0:19:52that the violence that was committed there was less than ours?
0:19:52 > 0:19:52that the violence that was committed there was less than ours? By you
0:19:52 > 0:19:52there was less than ours? By you
0:19:52 > 0:19:54there was less than ours? By you telling us
0:19:54 > 0:19:55there was less than ours? By you telling us that the lives of South
0:19:55 > 0:19:55telling us that the lives of South
0:19:55 > 0:19:55telling us that the lives of South Africans are less
0:19:55 > 0:19:55telling us that the lives of South Africans are less than
0:19:55 > 0:19:57telling us that the lives of South Africans are less than ours?
0:19:57 > 0:19:57telling us that the lives of South Africans are less than ours? And
0:19:57 > 0:19:57telling us that the lives of South Africans are less than ours? And you
0:19:57 > 0:19:58Africans are less than ours? And you
0:19:58 > 0:19:59Africans are less than ours? And you are saying
0:19:59 > 0:20:00Africans are less than ours? And you are saying that Kenya
0:20:00 > 0:20:00Africans are less than ours? And you are saying that Kenya has put
0:20:00 > 0:20:00Africans are less than ours? And you are saying that Kenya has put this
0:20:00 > 0:20:00are saying that Kenya has put this hostility
0:20:00 > 0:20:00are saying that Kenya has put this hostility behind
0:20:00 > 0:20:02are saying that Kenya has put this hostility behind it,
0:20:02 > 0:20:02are saying that Kenya has put this hostility behind it, and I
0:20:02 > 0:20:02are saying that Kenya has put this hostility behind it, and I say
0:20:02 > 0:20:03are saying that Kenya has put this hostility behind it, and I say you
0:20:03 > 0:20:03hostility behind it, and I say you
0:20:03 > 0:20:03hostility behind it, and I say you are to
0:20:03 > 0:20:09hostility behind it, and I say you are to optimistic about
0:20:09 > 0:20:09hostility behind it, and I say you are to optimistic about that. A
0:20:09 > 0:20:09are to optimistic about that. A writer
0:20:09 > 0:20:11are to optimistic about that. A writer said recently
0:20:11 > 0:20:11are to optimistic about that. A challenge
0:20:11 > 0:20:11are to optimistic about that. A challenge to
0:20:11 > 0:20:12are to optimistic about that. A challenge to democracy
0:20:12 > 0:20:12writer said recently that the challenge to democracy
0:20:12 > 0:20:12writer said recently that the challenge to democracy is not
0:20:12 > 0:20:12writer said recently that the challenge to democracy is not ethnic
0:20:12 > 0:20:13challenge to democracy is not ethnic
0:20:13 > 0:20:13challenge to democracy is not ethnic diversity, it
0:20:13 > 0:20:13challenge to democracy is not ethnic diversity, it is the
0:20:13 > 0:20:14challenge to democracy is not ethnic diversity, it is the use
0:20:14 > 0:20:14challenge to democracy is not ethnic diversity, it is the use of
0:20:14 > 0:20:16challenge to democracy is not ethnic diversity, it is the use of identity
0:20:16 > 0:20:16diversity, it is the use of identity
0:20:16 > 0:20:16diversity, it is the use of identity politics to promote tribal
0:20:16 > 0:20:17diversity, it is the use of identity interests.
0:20:17 > 0:20:18diversity, it is the use of identity interests. You
0:20:18 > 0:20:19politics to promote tribal interests. You
0:20:19 > 0:20:19politics to promote tribal interests. You deal ——
0:20:19 > 0:20:19politics to promote tribal interests. You deal —— you
0:20:19 > 0:20:20politics to promote tribal interests. You deal —— you still
0:20:20 > 0:20:20politics to promote tribal interests. You deal —— you still do
0:20:20 > 0:20:29interests. You deal —— you still do
0:20:29 > 0:20:30interests. You deal —— you still do have that. Absolutely. It is about
0:20:30 > 0:20:30have that. Absolutely. It is about
0:20:30 > 0:20:31have that. Absolutely. It is about democracy, it is
0:20:31 > 0:20:31have that. Absolutely. It is about democracy, it is about the
0:20:31 > 0:20:31have that. Absolutely. It is about democracy, it is about the majority
0:20:31 > 0:20:33democracy, it is about the majority
0:20:33 > 0:20:34democracy, it is about the majority voting. It
0:20:34 > 0:20:34democracy, it is about the majority voting. It is not
0:20:34 > 0:20:34democracy, it is about the majority voting. It is not only for
0:20:34 > 0:20:36democracy, it is about the majority voting. It is not only for Kenya.
0:20:36 > 0:20:36voting. It is not only for Kenya. Look at the
0:20:36 > 0:20:36voting. It is not only for Kenya. Look at the elections
0:20:36 > 0:20:37voting. It is not only for Kenya. Look at the elections anywhere
0:20:37 > 0:20:38voting. It is not only for Kenya. Look at the elections anywhere else.
0:20:38 > 0:20:38Look at the elections anywhere else. I
0:20:38 > 0:20:39Look at the elections anywhere else. I lived
0:20:39 > 0:20:39Look at the elections anywhere else. I lived in Switzerland for a
0:20:39 > 0:20:39Look at the elections anywhere else. I lived in Switzerland for a very
0:20:39 > 0:20:42I lived in Switzerland for a very long
0:20:42 > 0:20:43I lived in Switzerland for a very long time. People still
0:20:43 > 0:20:43I lived in Switzerland for a very long time. People still identify
0:20:43 > 0:20:44long time. People still identify
0:20:44 > 0:20:47long time. People still identify themselves as French and German
0:20:47 > 0:20:48themselves as French and German and themselves as French and German
0:20:48 > 0:20:48themselves as French and German and Italian. When you
0:20:48 > 0:20:56themselves as French and German and Italian. When you talk
0:20:56 > 0:20:57it is about Africa. He says leaders often exploit
0:20:57 > 0:20:58it is about Africa. He says leaders often exploit tribal loyalty to
0:20:58 > 0:20:58often exploit tribal loyalty to advance
0:20:58 > 0:20:58often exploit tribal loyalty to advance personal game,
0:20:58 > 0:20:58often exploit tribal loyalty to advance personal game, patronage
0:20:58 > 0:20:59often exploit tribal loyalty to advance personal game, patronage and
0:20:59 > 0:21:01advance personal game, patronage and
0:21:01 > 0:21:02advance personal game, patronage and cronyism.
0:21:02 > 0:21:02advance personal game, patronage and cronyism. That is true
0:21:02 > 0:21:02advance personal game, patronage and cronyism. That is true of many
0:21:02 > 0:21:02advance personal game, patronage and cronyism. That is true of many other
0:21:02 > 0:21:04cronyism. That is true of many other
0:21:04 > 0:21:05cronyism. That is true of many other countries.
0:21:05 > 0:21:06cronyism. That is true of many other countries. So it is
0:21:06 > 0:21:06cronyism. That is true of many other countries. So it is true
0:21:06 > 0:21:08cronyism. That is true of many other countries. So it is true of Kenya?
0:21:08 > 0:21:08countries. So it is true of Kenya? Look
0:21:08 > 0:21:08countries. So it is true of Kenya? Look at the
0:21:08 > 0:21:09countries. So it is true of Kenya? Look at the people
0:21:09 > 0:21:09countries. So it is true of Kenya? Look at the people who
0:21:09 > 0:21:09countries. So it is true of Kenya? Look at the people who voted in
0:21:09 > 0:21:09countries. So it is true of Kenya? Look at the people who voted in our
0:21:09 > 0:21:10countries. So it is true of Kenya? elections,
0:21:10 > 0:21:10Look at the people who voted in our elections,
0:21:10 > 0:21:10Look at the people who voted in our elections, and tell
0:21:10 > 0:21:11Look at the people who voted in our elections, and tell me
0:21:11 > 0:21:12Look at the people who voted in our elections, and tell me that.
0:21:12 > 0:21:14Look at the people who voted in our elections, and tell me that. They
0:21:14 > 0:21:26elections, and tell me that. They came from across the country, the
0:21:26 > 0:21:26manifesto that was being put across. Rome was not
0:21:26 > 0:21:26manifesto that was being put across. Rome was not built
0:21:26 > 0:21:26manifesto that was being put across. Rome was not built in
0:21:26 > 0:21:28manifesto that was being put across. Rome was not built in a day.
0:21:28 > 0:21:28manifesto that was being put across. Rome was not built in a day. We're
0:21:28 > 0:21:28manifesto that was being put across. going
0:21:28 > 0:21:29Rome was not built in a day. We're going
0:21:29 > 0:21:31Rome was not built in a day. We're going to be making progress.
0:21:31 > 0:21:32Rome was not built in a day. We're going to be making progress. We
0:21:32 > 0:21:32going to be making progress. We want going to be making progress. We
0:21:32 > 0:21:33going to be making progress. We want to make
0:21:33 > 0:21:35going to be making progress. We want to make that progress
0:21:35 > 0:21:36going to be making progress. We want to make that progress ourselves.
0:21:36 > 0:21:36to make that progress ourselves. We to make that progress ourselves.
0:21:36 > 0:21:36to make that progress ourselves. We want to
0:21:36 > 0:21:36to make that progress ourselves. We want to make
0:21:36 > 0:21:36to make that progress ourselves. We want to make our
0:21:36 > 0:21:37to make that progress ourselves. We want to make our mistakes
0:21:37 > 0:21:37to make that progress ourselves. We want to make our mistakes and
0:21:37 > 0:21:37to make that progress ourselves. We correct
0:21:37 > 0:21:37want to make our mistakes and correct
0:21:37 > 0:21:39want to make our mistakes and correct them ourselves.
0:21:39 > 0:21:39want to make our mistakes and correct them ourselves. We
0:21:39 > 0:21:40want to make our mistakes and correct them ourselves. We don't
0:21:40 > 0:21:40correct them ourselves. We don't
0:21:40 > 0:21:40correct them ourselves. We don't want fingers
0:21:40 > 0:21:41correct them ourselves. We don't want fingers pointed
0:21:41 > 0:21:41correct them ourselves. We don't want fingers pointed at
0:21:41 > 0:21:41correct them ourselves. We don't want fingers pointed at us
0:21:41 > 0:21:41correct them ourselves. We don't want fingers pointed at us every
0:21:41 > 0:21:41want fingers pointed at us every
0:21:41 > 0:21:44want fingers pointed at us every time something
0:21:44 > 0:21:46want fingers pointed at us every time something goes wrong.
0:21:46 > 0:21:46want fingers pointed at us every time something goes wrong. Africa
0:21:46 > 0:21:46time something goes wrong. Africa
0:21:46 > 0:21:46time something goes wrong. Africa does not
0:21:46 > 0:21:47time something goes wrong. Africa does not have
0:21:47 > 0:21:47time something goes wrong. Africa does not have a
0:21:47 > 0:21:49time something goes wrong. Africa violence.
0:21:49 > 0:21:49does not have a monopoly on violence.
0:21:49 > 0:21:49does not have a monopoly on violence. It doesn't
0:21:49 > 0:21:49does not have a monopoly on violence. It doesn't have
0:21:49 > 0:21:50does not have a monopoly on violence. It doesn't have a
0:21:50 > 0:21:50does not have a monopoly on violence. It doesn't have a monopoly
0:21:50 > 0:21:50violence. It doesn't have a monopoly of
0:21:50 > 0:21:52violence. It doesn't have a monopoly of bad leadership.
0:21:52 > 0:21:52violence. It doesn't have a monopoly of bad leadership. That
0:21:52 > 0:21:53violence. It doesn't have a monopoly of bad leadership. That is shared
0:21:53 > 0:21:53of bad leadership. That is shared
0:21:53 > 0:21:53of bad leadership. That is shared across the world,
0:21:53 > 0:21:54of bad leadership. That is shared across the world, and
0:21:54 > 0:21:54of bad leadership. That is shared across the world, and I
0:21:54 > 0:21:54of bad leadership. That is shared across the world, and I can give
0:21:54 > 0:21:55of bad leadership. That is shared across the world, and I can give you
0:21:55 > 0:21:55across the world, and I can give you
0:21:55 > 0:21:55across the world, and I can give you many examples
0:21:55 > 0:21:56across the world, and I can give you many examples of other
0:21:56 > 0:21:56across the world, and I can give you many examples of other parts
0:21:56 > 0:21:56across the world, and I can give you many examples of other parts of
0:21:56 > 0:21:56many examples of other parts of the many examples of other parts of
0:21:56 > 0:21:57many examples of other parts of the world where
0:21:57 > 0:21:58many examples of other parts of the world where this happens.
0:21:58 > 0:21:59many examples of other parts of the world where this happens. What
0:21:59 > 0:21:59many examples of other parts of the world where this happens. What is
0:21:59 > 0:21:59world where this happens. What is
0:21:59 > 0:22:00world where this happens. What is going to
0:22:00 > 0:22:01world where this happens. What is going to happen to you
0:22:01 > 0:22:02world where this happens. What is going to happen to you now. You
0:22:02 > 0:22:02world where this happens. What is part
0:22:02 > 0:22:02world where this happens. What is part of
0:22:02 > 0:22:03world where this happens. What is part of a
0:22:03 > 0:22:03going to happen to you now. You are part of a
0:22:03 > 0:22:03going to happen to you now. You are part of a government where your
0:22:03 > 0:22:04part of a government where your
0:22:04 > 0:22:04part of a government where your president is apparently
0:22:04 > 0:22:04part of a government where your president is apparently going
0:22:04 > 0:22:05part of a government where your president is apparently going to
0:22:05 > 0:22:05part of a government where your president is apparently going to be
0:22:05 > 0:22:05president is apparently going to be
0:22:05 > 0:22:06president is apparently going to be giving evidence
0:22:06 > 0:22:06president is apparently going to be giving evidence via a video
0:22:06 > 0:22:06president is apparently going to be giving evidence via a video link
0:22:06 > 0:22:06president is apparently going to be giving evidence via a video link in
0:22:06 > 0:22:08giving evidence via a video link in
0:22:08 > 0:22:08giving evidence via a video link in November. Your
0:22:08 > 0:22:09giving evidence via a video link in November. Your vice
0:22:09 > 0:22:09giving evidence via a video link in November. Your vice president
0:22:09 > 0:22:10giving evidence via a video link in November. Your vice president is
0:22:10 > 0:22:11November. Your vice president is giving
0:22:11 > 0:22:13November. Your vice president is giving evidence at the Hague.
0:22:13 > 0:22:14November. Your vice president is giving evidence at the Hague. How
0:22:14 > 0:22:14giving evidence at the Hague. How can
0:22:14 > 0:22:14giving evidence at the Hague. How can these two
0:22:14 > 0:22:15giving evidence at the Hague. How can these two men
0:22:15 > 0:22:15giving evidence at the Hague. How can these two men take care of
0:22:15 > 0:22:16giving evidence at the Hague. How can these two men take care of the
0:22:16 > 0:22:16can these two men take care of the
0:22:16 > 0:22:16can these two men take care of the day—to—day process of running
0:22:16 > 0:22:17can these two men take care of the day—to—day process of running a
0:22:17 > 0:22:18day—to—day process of running a
0:22:18 > 0:22:19day—to—day process of running a country. They
0:22:19 > 0:22:21day—to—day process of running a country. They are.
0:22:21 > 0:22:21day—to—day process of running a country. They are. They
0:22:21 > 0:22:21day—to—day process of running a country. They are. They haven't
0:22:21 > 0:22:21country. They are. They haven't been country. They are. They haven't
0:22:21 > 0:22:23country. They are. They haven't been found wanting.
0:22:23 > 0:22:23country. They are. They haven't been found wanting. But it
0:22:23 > 0:22:25country. They are. They haven't been found wanting. But it is disruptive.
0:22:25 > 0:22:26found wanting. But it is disruptive.
0:22:26 > 0:22:32found wanting. But it is disruptive. It is annoying more than disruptive.
0:22:32 > 0:22:32It is annoying more than disruptive. That
0:22:32 > 0:22:32It is annoying more than disruptive. That is what
0:22:32 > 0:22:33It is annoying more than disruptive. That is what Africans
0:22:33 > 0:22:33It is annoying more than disruptive. That is what Africans told me across
0:22:33 > 0:22:33That is what Africans told me across
0:22:33 > 0:22:34That is what Africans told me across the board
0:22:34 > 0:22:35That is what Africans told me across the board when they saw
0:22:35 > 0:22:35That is what Africans told me across the board when they saw made deputy
0:22:35 > 0:22:35the board when they saw made deputy
0:22:35 > 0:22:39the board when they saw made deputy president in
0:22:39 > 0:22:39the board when they saw made deputy president in a courtroom. In a
0:22:39 > 0:22:39the board when they saw made deputy president in a courtroom. In a way,
0:22:39 > 0:22:39president in a courtroom. In a way,
0:22:39 > 0:22:39president in a courtroom. In a way, it reminded
0:22:39 > 0:22:40president in a courtroom. In a way, it reminded them
0:22:40 > 0:22:46president in a courtroom. In a way, it reminded them of days gone by.
0:22:46 > 0:22:46president in a courtroom. In a way, it reminded them of days gone by. We
0:22:46 > 0:22:46it reminded them of days gone by. We
0:22:46 > 0:22:50it reminded them of days gone by. We don't have
0:22:50 > 0:22:55it reminded them of days gone by. We don't have a deficit of leadership.
0:22:55 > 0:22:56don't have a deficit of leadership.
0:22:56 > 0:22:58don't have a deficit of leadership. efficiently.
0:22:58 > 0:23:00Countries run effectively and efficiently.
0:23:00 > 0:23:06Countries run effectively and efficiently. He is at home.
0:23:06 > 0:23:06efficiently. He is at home. If the efficiently. He is at home.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08efficiently. He is at home. If the court doesn't decide to dismiss
0:23:08 > 0:23:08efficiently. He is at home. If the cases, which
0:23:08 > 0:23:08court doesn't decide to dismiss the cases, which
0:23:08 > 0:23:11court doesn't decide to dismiss the cases, which should be
0:23:11 > 0:23:12cases, which should be the right thing to do, because as I told you,
0:23:12 > 0:23:12thing to do, because as I told you,
0:23:12 > 0:23:14thing to do, because as I told you, the pot
0:23:14 > 0:23:14thing to do, because as I told you, the pot of evidence, it is the
0:23:14 > 0:23:14thing to do, because as I told you, the pot of evidence, it is the same
0:23:14 > 0:23:15the pot of evidence, it is the same
0:23:15 > 0:23:16the pot of evidence, it is the same the
0:23:16 > 0:23:16the pot of evidence, it is the same the other
0:23:16 > 0:23:20three already dismissed, and we hope the other
0:23:20 > 0:23:21the other three will be dismissed shortly, so the
0:23:21 > 0:23:24shortly, so the ICC can look like a shortly, so the
0:23:24 > 0:23:26shortly, so the ICC can look like a credible and legitimate court with
0:23:26 > 0:23:30credible and legitimate court with legitimate
0:23:30 > 0:23:34legitimate procedures. We have to legitimate
0:23:34 > 0:23:34leave it there. The Foreign Minister of Kenya,
0:23:34 > 0:23:34leave it there. The Foreign Minister of Kenya, thank
0:23:34 > 0:23:35leave it there. The Foreign Minister of Kenya, thank you
0:23:35 > 0:23:50leave it there. The Foreign Minister of Kenya, thank you for joining