:00:00. > :00:28.Understandable, given the witches and the acclamation on offer to
:00:28. > :00:30.Understandable, given the witches biggest star is. But behind the
:00:30. > :01:14.Association. —— German. Is there a problems. Racism, corruption and
:01:14. > :01:20.Association. —— German. Is there a Clark Carlisle, welcome to HARDtalk.
:01:20. > :01:23.Thank you. You walked out their professional football club for the
:01:23. > :01:28.last time just a couple of months ago. It described a feeling of
:01:28. > :01:38.liberation. Which tells me you have football industry. Not at all. It is
:01:38. > :01:41.not a negative view of what football can offer. For my 15 years in the
:01:41. > :01:47.game, I experienced some of the can offer. For my 15 years in the
:01:47. > :01:52.magical highs and professional successes and achievements that
:01:52. > :01:55.magical highs and professional could barely have dreamt of as a
:01:55. > :01:59.child. But I think the balance to that is that there is a reality
:01:59. > :02:03.child. But I think the balance to the industry that is far from public
:02:03. > :02:09.perception. What they have not been afraid to say is what is reality is.
:02:09. > :02:13.And the pressures that reality can bring. But it is a reality that
:02:13. > :02:19.And the pressures that reality can have described as a dark cloud.
:02:19. > :02:24.And the pressures that reality can puts you in situations where you are
:02:24. > :02:40.talk about and my experiences is not That is true. That is because I
:02:40. > :02:40.talk about and my experiences is not footballer. Although the emotional
:02:40. > :02:43.rollercoaster will be there. We footballer. Although the emotional
:02:43. > :02:49.to make sure that the networks are in place to support players like me.
:02:49. > :02:51.But it strikes me that many players probably feel the same way you do.
:02:51. > :03:12.and say what they like you because probably feel the same way you do.
:03:12. > :03:15.and say what they like you because they pay your wages. And here is a
:03:15. > :03:23.direct quote. Ultimately, you are an asset. They control as many parts of
:03:23. > :03:28.your life as is humanly possible. I stand by each and every one of those
:03:28. > :03:33.statements. That is not about to be mentally vulnerable or depressive,
:03:33. > :03:39.it is a reality that every single professional footballer has to
:03:39. > :03:49.statements. There needs to be a genuine shift in the way that we
:03:49. > :04:03.aspirational footballers. Youngsters are corralled by the ages of six and
:04:03. > :04:09.consideration to the identity and plan B and fancy of what they are
:04:09. > :04:14.going to do should they not make it at a professional level. Because
:04:14. > :04:21.most talented footballers will never They will commit themselves to it.
:04:21. > :04:28.To the detriment of all else. That has to change. And when they do
:04:28. > :04:30.To the detriment of all else. That it, and you make it, the fact is
:04:30. > :04:40.meat. You are owned club. You could that you are treated like a piece of
:04:40. > :04:48.meat. You are owned club. You could be sold on by club. There is an
:04:48. > :04:52.the club. There is, no doubt about it. I have tried to address that in
:04:52. > :05:02.often choice and mercenary decisions writing. What people believe is
:05:02. > :05:02.often choice and mercenary decisions by players is far from it. It is
:05:02. > :05:12.fit their needs. It might be a by players is far from it. It is
:05:12. > :05:28.treated with respect to the people change of manager or division. The
:05:28. > :05:28.treated with respect to the people who owned you? That is a very good
:05:28. > :05:35.question. I would like to thank who owned you? That is a very good
:05:35. > :05:42.the majority of clubs did. But there handled things differently. Like?
:05:42. > :05:50.Like Preston when he was a manager and I was on loan for the entirety
:05:50. > :05:58.of the year. The manager's decision was that he did not want or need me.
:05:58. > :06:01.And you were out. And the next day I was out. People listening to this
:06:01. > :06:06.across the world may be thinking that he is a binding footballer
:06:06. > :06:07.across the world may be thinking at the very same time as he is
:06:07. > :06:13.waning, we know that he and his colleagues are earning unbelievable
:06:13. > :06:23.sums of money. Frankly, in terms of mediocre players are earning tens of
:06:23. > :06:28.thousands of pounds per week. Is it not the case that the scale of the
:06:28. > :06:40.money in football denies UE right to at all. There is no correlation
:06:40. > :06:44.between the amount of money have and your emotional state. There is no
:06:44. > :06:46.correlation between the amount of money you have and the level of
:06:46. > :07:04.irrespective of the amounts of money money you have and the level of
:07:04. > :07:08.irrespective of the amounts of money involved. You also into demise what
:07:08. > :07:15.is wrong with the perception of stated that mediocre players and
:07:15. > :07:17.tens of thousands of pounds per week. I guarantee that any player on
:07:17. > :07:27.incredibly talented. He will have week. I guarantee that any player on
:07:27. > :07:35.thousands of competitors for his himself for the entirety of his
:07:35. > :07:44.day to maintain himself at that position. He works tirelessly every
:07:44. > :07:47.day to maintain himself at that mediocre. He will still be 1 million
:07:47. > :07:59.miles from Lionel Messi Cristiano Ronaldo. He will be a journeyman
:07:59. > :08:03.player. A player who is reliable. You are talking about the elitist of
:08:03. > :08:10.a leaked. Lionel Messi is one of. There can only be one greatest in
:08:10. > :08:13.the game. We are talking about a globally. It conforms to the natural
:08:13. > :08:17.laws of supply and demand. Just globally. It conforms to the natural
:08:17. > :08:24.Tom Cruise can earn $50 million globally. It conforms to the natural
:08:24. > :08:28.movie. We do not apply a different moral compass or expectation of
:08:28. > :08:40.behaviour or action from these people. There is a point where the
:08:40. > :08:45.money gets incomprehensible. Others have called it obscene. We are
:08:45. > :08:52.talking about a transfer fee that goes over $100 million. It is.
:08:52. > :08:57.Football has to back off and say that this is wrong. In Spain, most
:08:57. > :09:00.people are suffering austerity. that this is wrong. In Spain, most
:09:00. > :09:09.expected to offer their adulation to cannot get a job. And they are
:09:09. > :09:09.expected to offer their adulation to a footballer who is deemed to be
:09:09. > :09:18.impression that you demean the sport impression that you demean the sport
:09:18. > :09:28.still show films in Spain and sell of football and the quality that it
:09:28. > :09:40.Nobody talks about Bill Gates. It music? Of course they do. Do they
:09:40. > :09:42.conforms to the natural laws of supply and demand. Football will
:09:42. > :09:44.only stop when the money stops coming into it. There is another way
:09:44. > :09:53.of looking at it. Because there performers on the pitch. A lot of it
:09:53. > :10:05.is going to middlemen and agents. Some would say that it is sleazy.
:10:05. > :10:11.windows. Do you worry about the agents? Yes. I think that good
:10:11. > :10:24.agents are a few and far between. Did you have an agent? I did in
:10:24. > :10:26.agents are a few and far between. necessary. I needed an intermediary
:10:26. > :10:32.to find me another club who would take me on. In the end, his interest
:10:32. > :10:45.was his own bank account. Of course trusted them as much as they were
:10:45. > :10:48.recommended. I generally believe that in a situation where it is
:10:48. > :10:55.illegal for a player to talk to another club, I cannot think many
:10:55. > :11:09.players, unless they are in upper tears, they are not that necessary.
:11:09. > :11:14.—— echelons. Players should have the courage to stand up and speak with
:11:14. > :11:18.themselves. You would get more respect. And because you are a voice
:11:18. > :11:22.or authority figure within the game, players to you? —— two players
:11:22. > :11:30.question. I think players should players to you? —— two players
:11:30. > :11:33.question. I think players should listen to the union more. The union
:11:33. > :11:35.is there to support players. There are a lot of things on offer from
:11:35. > :11:42.the union that are not taken up even in the lower levels. Some of
:11:42. > :12:12.the players. There is a perception even in the lower levels. Some of
:12:12. > :12:21.the young men who play professional football are very vulnerable. When
:12:21. > :12:22.vulnerable, abusive behaviour can develop that he quickly. We have
:12:22. > :12:29.seen it with alcohol, gambling. develop that he quickly. We have
:12:29. > :12:39.have experience with both. Explain to me how it works at a player can
:12:39. > :12:43.so easily slip on a downward spiral. It can happen as easily to a player
:12:43. > :12:48.as it can happen to any man in any walk of life. That is probably the
:12:48. > :12:54.biggest factor in the industry, walk of life. That is probably the
:12:54. > :12:58.if I, when I was going to make days on gambling days, if I had another
:12:58. > :13:15.£20,000, I would only go so far on gambling days, if I had another
:13:15. > :13:20.the line. When I was at Queens Park, and I was earning £100,000, I would
:13:20. > :13:26.only be broken for a couple of weeks. Then the wages would come in.
:13:26. > :13:36.That would enable me to go out and perpetuate this behaviour is. We
:13:36. > :13:42.know that other players have been in the stark place. It got to a point
:13:42. > :13:58.tasted success and are so physically when you were injured where it seems
:13:58. > :14:00.tasted success and are so physically early in their life. It is hard
:14:00. > :14:02.tasted success and are so physically me to process it logically as well.
:14:02. > :14:11.attempted to commit suicide, it me to process it logically as well.
:14:11. > :14:16.rationalised that the decision. me to process it logically as well.
:14:16. > :14:23.was not sure if I was going to be was not even a way out. It was the
:14:23. > :14:26.was not sure if I was going to be able to walk. My career was just
:14:26. > :14:39.taking off. I had just moved down to Queen's Park Rangers. Football was
:14:39. > :14:44.rewards, the reason why my parents were proud of me, white people took
:14:44. > :14:54.interest in me. When that was taken away, myself worth, what I thought
:14:54. > :15:05.thought everybody would be better off without me. Luckily you took an
:15:05. > :15:15.overdose and it didn't work. I just football, your club, your teammates,
:15:15. > :15:25.your manager, did anything to really address the problem is that you
:15:25. > :15:38.because it was a decision that I made. Your fine now, you are just
:15:38. > :15:45.pretend that didn't happen. —— you are fine. I think that is systematic
:15:45. > :15:59.of society's views towards mental illness. It is all very hush—hush.
:15:59. > :16:03.testosterone, aggression, macho images. Drink is a part of the
:16:03. > :16:16.culture. Male bonding. It would images. Drink is a part of the
:16:16. > :16:49.in this modern time where attitudes very hard, wouldn't it? Even today,
:16:49. > :16:57.in this modern time where attitudes psychologists and psychiatrist etc.
:16:57. > :17:05.injury, like a calf strain, it would sickness in football today. I wonder
:17:05. > :17:13.if you would agree, that one of sickness in football today. I wonder
:17:13. > :17:19.sicknesses is racism? In instances we have seen across the world,
:17:19. > :17:29.instances of racist behaviour from football players. It is still a
:17:29. > :17:34.instances of racist behaviour from important issue. One of the things
:17:34. > :17:41.about racism is that the over racism that we saw many years ago has
:17:41. > :17:48.lessened somewhat. Is that your retired. That leverage your career,
:17:48. > :18:04.there was less racism directed at There are so many facets to the
:18:04. > :18:18.opportunities. Progressing through There are so many facets to the
:18:18. > :18:20.opportunities. Progressing through the system, there really seems to be
:18:20. > :18:29.have tried to speed it up. You have a slow shift inequality there.
:18:29. > :18:32.have tried to speed it up. You have tried to get racism out of English
:18:32. > :18:39.football. It has become hugely controversial. One of the things
:18:39. > :18:41.that you tried to do last season was to get all players in the Premier
:18:41. > :19:02.League players refused to wear that league to wear kick it out T—shirts.
:19:02. > :19:05.League players refused to wear that These big players will happily throw
:19:05. > :19:16.a good grenade by not wearing a T—shirt, but when it explodes they
:19:16. > :19:30.that a word you really want to apply to that fellow footballer? This
:19:30. > :19:32.that a word you really want to apply written as a diary and these were my
:19:32. > :19:58.feelings as that hold the buccal unfoldment. —— hold —— whole debacle
:19:58. > :20:02.unfolded. I don't want to paraphrase their arguments, but it seems to me
:20:02. > :20:17.their key argument was that it was certain key instances, controversy
:20:17. > :20:23.surrounding those players, the industry had not done enough to
:20:23. > :20:28.protect players from racism. But they hadn't done enough to kick
:20:28. > :20:29.protect players from racism. But racism. Yes, that was exactly what
:20:29. > :20:42.they were saying. You are sort of racism. Yes, that was exactly what
:20:42. > :21:11.from the players... I couldn't these people were saying, nonsense.
:21:11. > :21:15.from the players... I couldn't understand. I understood and I
:21:15. > :21:29.respect that. You think you need to get a bit more radical and a bit
:21:29. > :21:42.also as a group. They do the best that they can with the resources
:21:42. > :21:47.walked off the field and took his teammates with him when he was
:21:47. > :21:51.racially abuse. Would you like to see players walk off the pitch if
:21:51. > :21:58.they hear final, racial abuse from the stands? Yes.Will that happen?
:21:58. > :22:07.There are two sides to that. If the stands? Yes.Will that happen?
:22:07. > :22:17.empowered and supported enough to be able to do that. The massive stake
:22:17. > :22:21.you seriously think they are going to tolerate players making that
:22:21. > :22:25.you seriously think they are going of stand and ending games, killing
:22:25. > :22:54.equally... Because there was no hypothetical. The reason for my
:22:54. > :22:57.equally... Because there was no follow—up with that. I genuinely
:22:57. > :23:08.up and be counted. Don't expect others to stand up on your behalf.
:23:08. > :23:19.partly because there are so many others to stand up on your behalf.
:23:19. > :23:21.partly because there are so many foreign players now playing in
:23:21. > :23:30.English football that it is really harming the interests of the sport.
:23:30. > :23:38.Do you think it is time to think about quotas, about forcing them to
:23:38. > :23:49.use more home—grown players? My care about the quality? Of course I
:23:49. > :23:51.do. I think there are many other factors in the development of young
:23:51. > :23:59.English players. The quality of factors in the development of young
:23:59. > :24:10.culture itself. I think there needs quantitative analysis of our whole
:24:10. > :24:22.setup. To identify why our young or 20, aren't good enough to compete
:24:22. > :24:23.with players coming from overseas. Clarke Carlisle, we have to end