:00:00. > :00:14.began in March. It is time for HARDtalk. When the
:00:15. > :00:18.Nobel committee awarded this year's peace prize to the Organisation for
:00:19. > :00:22.the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, its staff were on the
:00:23. > :00:27.ground in Syria, overseeing the destruction and removal of its
:00:28. > :00:32.chemical weapons. I am here in Oslo for a special edition of HARDtalk,
:00:33. > :00:37.with the Director`General of the OPCW, Ahmet Uzumcu, who is here to
:00:38. > :00:38.collect the prize. Does the work of his organisation in Syria mean that
:00:39. > :01:02.peace is any more likely? Ahmet Uzumcu, welcome to HARDtalk.
:01:03. > :01:08.It is 20 years to the day since Nelson Mandela came here to collect
:01:09. > :01:17.his Nobel Peace Prize. Do you think that it still means as much today as
:01:18. > :01:22.it did then? I think it does. Nelson Mandela was always a source of
:01:23. > :01:29.inspiration for our generation. He was very dedicated to peace,
:01:30. > :01:34.reconciliation, and he did it. He was also a source of inspiration to
:01:35. > :01:43.our organisation. He was like a moral guide. I think in our limited
:01:44. > :01:51.area, we follow his path in order to contribute to global peace. The
:01:52. > :01:57.award was given to the entirety of the oak PCW's work, but the timing
:01:58. > :02:03.was such as you were in Syria. Let's consider the progress that has been
:02:04. > :02:06.made in Syria. You have a significant deadline coming up, the
:02:07. > :02:09.ultimate deadline is that all chemicals weapons should have been
:02:10. > :02:13.dealt with by the middle of next year. That you will have a more
:02:14. > :02:16.immediate one, in which that the most dangerous weapons should be out
:02:17. > :02:23.of the country by the end of the year. Can you meet that deadline? I
:02:24. > :02:28.am pretty confident that we can meet the deadline of June, 2014, to
:02:29. > :02:33.destroy all chemical weapons which are existing in Syria. As to the
:02:34. > :02:36.target date is that we have established for the removal of
:02:37. > :02:41.chemical weapons outside of the country, there may be some slight
:02:42. > :02:45.delay, it was a technical problems that we have been counted in this
:02:46. > :02:50.country, because of the provision of certain equipment and material which
:02:51. > :02:53.was delayed, and because of the security situation. So the
:02:54. > :02:59.transportation of all those chemical weapons to the port for loading onto
:03:00. > :03:04.the ship may not happen before the 31st of December. There may be a
:03:05. > :03:11.slight delay. But I am not worried about it. The situation is that
:03:12. > :03:15.there are chemical weapons at seven different sites across Syria?
:03:16. > :03:22.Indeed. They are located in different sites. Some of the sites,
:03:23. > :03:28.the access roads are quite risky at the moment. Of course the security
:03:29. > :03:31.and safety of our inspectors is an overriding concern, and the
:03:32. > :03:36.transportation will have to be executed in a safe environment.
:03:37. > :03:39.There will be some verification activities. There will be an
:03:40. > :03:45.analysis. Therefore all of this has to be done in a smooth manner. This
:03:46. > :03:50.may take a little longer time than we have foreseen. But you have
:03:51. > :03:54.managed to get them from more than 20 different sites across the
:03:55. > :03:58.country. You have got them down to about seven as the aim is to get
:03:59. > :04:04.those within a matter of weeks, the road, more than 100 miles of road,
:04:05. > :04:16.in a war zone. It seems scarcely credible. Now the Syrian experts are
:04:17. > :04:20.being trained for packing and say transportation of all those
:04:21. > :04:24.materials. They are being delivered the necessary equipment, most of the
:04:25. > :04:31.drop will be done by the Syrian authorities themselves. Both the
:04:32. > :04:35.United Nations as well as OPCW will monitor this operation. This is
:04:36. > :04:43.quite challenging. It is happening for the first time in a war zone.
:04:44. > :04:47.But we think that it is feasible. As I said earlier, it may take a little
:04:48. > :04:52.longer time than we have foreseen, but we are confident that it will
:04:53. > :05:02.happen. Does the Syrian regime control all the roads to the port?
:05:03. > :05:07.It depends. V massacres `Homs Road was closed for some time. ``
:05:08. > :05:13.Damascus. It is being controlled again by government forces. The
:05:14. > :05:20.situation may change. Therefore we have to find the right moment to
:05:21. > :05:25.transport the materials. We hope that the opposition will also be
:05:26. > :05:29.cooperative and supportive. At the moment, you are finding that the
:05:30. > :05:34.Syrian regime that President Assad himself is being extremely
:05:35. > :05:45.cooperative? They are cooperative, they are fulfilling their
:05:46. > :05:48.obligations. They have obligations. It was put together by the executive
:05:49. > :05:55.committee and the UN Security Council. And the opposition? The
:05:56. > :06:03.opposition has not post any problems so far. I assume, we do not have
:06:04. > :06:10.direct contact with the opposition, I assume that they are supportive.
:06:11. > :06:15.Have you negotiated transfer of materials via roads that are in
:06:16. > :06:20.rebel held areas? The UN has some contact with the opposition. They
:06:21. > :06:25.were invited to support this operation which we believe is in the
:06:26. > :06:30.interest of all the Syrian people, because after all... I am asking is
:06:31. > :06:35.actually on the ground you have done deals so that you can move material.
:06:36. > :06:38.Just trying to imagine the situation where you have got hundreds of tons
:06:39. > :06:41.of lethal material that you are transferring by road, with your
:06:42. > :06:50.staff monitoring it alongside it, transferring by road, with your
:06:51. > :06:53.will escort the materials. What they will do, they will verify the
:06:54. > :06:59.loading of the things, and the unloadings at the port. Again,
:07:00. > :07:06.loading on the ship. They will not go along with the convoy. But how do
:07:07. > :07:12.you feel about this? You talk about the roads between Damascus and Homs,
:07:13. > :07:21.let alone beyond from Homs to retire `` to the port. These materials have
:07:22. > :07:25.been moved on several occasions before. By the Syrian government
:07:26. > :07:29.forces. So it will not be happening for the first time. If it was
:07:30. > :07:35.feasible in the past issue be feasible now. But there is no plan
:07:36. > :07:38.B. It is the Syrian responsibility to move everything to the port. Once
:07:39. > :07:43.it gets there, what is the plan? You it gets there, what is the plan You
:07:44. > :07:47.have lined up the Norwegians and the Danes to have ships ready, because
:07:48. > :07:54.there is no way that an American ship can sail into a Syrian port.
:07:55. > :08:01.That is correct. A Norwegian ship will take over. The priority one
:08:02. > :08:10.chemical materials as we call them. They will sail to the port, to be
:08:11. > :08:16.identified, they will upload these all transfer it to an American ship.
:08:17. > :08:21.This may take some days. We expect that everything could be done, in
:08:22. > :08:30.terms of loading, by the end of January. In the next few weeks, this
:08:31. > :08:34.material, 500 tonnes of mustard gas and the like, is going to the port,
:08:35. > :08:39.been put on a Danish or Norwegian ship, and being taken where? We do
:08:40. > :08:46.not know yet. There are some contacts which are under way. I
:08:47. > :08:51.expect that one of the parties will accept to provide the facility of
:08:52. > :08:58.trans` loading. This is also important, eight kind contribution.
:08:59. > :09:04.Presumably you are talking about a country that is on the
:09:05. > :09:11.Mediterranean. I assume so. So country such as Italy all Greece. I
:09:12. > :09:17.do not know yet. I hope you have negotiations going on. I am pretty
:09:18. > :09:25.sure that one of those countries will step forward. So the Danish and
:09:26. > :09:29.all `` and Norwegian ships go into one of those ports, and the material
:09:30. > :09:33.is transferred to an American ship. That is correct. It destroys and
:09:34. > :09:35.neutralises the material import? That is correct. It destroys and
:09:36. > :09:44.neutralises the material import? Not necessarily. The facilities for
:09:45. > :09:48.neutralisation are being installed on the ship. There will be two
:09:49. > :09:53.facilities. All the material will be loaded onto the ship, they will be
:09:54. > :10:00.neutralised on the ship, and there will be every action as a result of
:10:01. > :10:05.this. The reaction or effluent as we call it will be ten times more than
:10:06. > :10:09.the substance, which is going to be neutralised. Everything will be
:10:10. > :10:13.stored on the ship. After all this operation is over, the effluent will
:10:14. > :10:19.also be insulate it somewhere in a commercial plant. I notice you are
:10:20. > :10:27.saying it is on the ship. So will it be done at sea? It may be. All
:10:28. > :10:32.preparations are being done for either option. Either deport all at
:10:33. > :10:39.sea. So the actual neutralising of the material... Absolutely. Do you
:10:40. > :10:47.also have to transfer at sea? It could be done. I prefer to do it at
:10:48. > :10:54.a port. It is easier. Has it ever been done before? No. It was not
:10:55. > :11:00.destroyed at sea. Clearly these facilities are tested and they
:11:01. > :11:07.function quite well. The safety record is quite high. But it is
:11:08. > :11:12.going to be done for the first time at sea. You say it is quite high
:11:13. > :11:16.which is not very reassuring. This whole operation seems incredibly
:11:17. > :11:22.risky. Is it risky but you do not have a choice? We do not see any
:11:23. > :11:26.risk. We have received several briefings from experts who have
:11:27. > :11:33.worked on this project. We were assured that all safety measures
:11:34. > :11:40.will be in place. We have gone through the technicalities and found
:11:41. > :11:44.them very convincing. I cannot help wondering how you will feel, how all
:11:45. > :11:49.of a should be feeling while it is ongoing? I think you should be very
:11:50. > :11:52.comfortable. Our inspectors will also be on the ship and they will
:11:53. > :11:59.verify every activity of destruction as they are doing at other
:12:00. > :12:04.destruction facilities. Before we get to that phase, as the
:12:05. > :12:08.organisation, we have to verify whether the facility is up to the
:12:09. > :12:11.job, and we will have an inspection and after this inspection, an
:12:12. > :12:19.agreement will be signed with the United States, and we expect... 500
:12:20. > :12:23.tonnes of mustard gas will be neutralised while a ship is sailing
:12:24. > :12:32.around the Mediterranean. Less than 500 tonnes. There are other
:12:33. > :12:38.substances. This is not really a safety risk. From our point of view.
:12:39. > :12:44.So people should be quite relaxed about that? Absolutely. The head of
:12:45. > :12:49.your field operations in Syria is reported as saying, when the
:12:50. > :12:53.organisation won the prize, we will celebrate when our mission in Syria
:12:54. > :13:00.is successfully completed. When will you judge that to be? We have a
:13:01. > :13:07.mandate until June. The end of June next year. As to our presence of in
:13:08. > :13:15.a joint mission with the United Nations in Damascus. We will
:13:16. > :13:20.continue to have a presence for the coming months. But however much you
:13:21. > :13:26.destroy, will you be able to say that Syria is free of chemical
:13:27. > :13:32.weapons? According to our estimates and the estimates of State parties,
:13:33. > :13:37.Syria has disclosed in fact its chemical weapons. If there are
:13:38. > :13:42.question marks about some facilities or chemical weapons which may not
:13:43. > :13:48.have been declared, then the State parties have the right, in fact to
:13:49. > :13:52.invoke a mechanism, according to the executive Council decision as well
:13:53. > :13:53.as the UN Security Council resolution, and our inspectors would
:13:54. > :13:58.go and verify those facilities. . go and verify those facilities. .
:13:59. > :14:03.But how confident are you that what the Syrian government has said it
:14:04. > :14:06.has are accurate? Whether it is the government putting it somewhere or
:14:07. > :14:10.even the opposition, which has taken some?
:14:11. > :14:19.Actually, we have seen no evidence about the position of `` possession
:14:20. > :14:24.of chemical weapons by the opposition. There was some
:14:25. > :14:30.speculation but we have seen no evidence at all. As for the Syrian
:14:31. > :14:33.government, we think that they have been transparent and we have raised
:14:34. > :14:39.some questions with them and they replied quite constructively. But if
:14:40. > :14:43.there are still some questions, every state party has tried to raise
:14:44. > :14:48.those questions and we will follow them up. If there's no evidence at
:14:49. > :14:52.all that opposition groups have used chemical weapons, was the Syrian
:14:53. > :14:58.government responsible for the attacks in Damascus? I didn't say
:14:59. > :15:03.they haven't or have used them. I am saying we haven't got evidence of
:15:04. > :15:09.the possession of chemical weapons. As the investigation determined,
:15:10. > :15:15.there was large`scale use of sarin gas in Damascus but they didn't get
:15:16. > :15:23.that far to apportion the blame on anyone. Human Rights Watch reported
:15:24. > :15:26.that it was sarin gas but also those inspectors found sufficient evidence
:15:27. > :15:32.to allow the project three of the missiles to be determined `` the
:15:33. > :15:37.trajectory. And established it had been fired from a large military
:15:38. > :15:41.base, home to the Republican guards 104th Brigade. Are they wrong in
:15:42. > :15:45.saying that? I would say that. This is an investigation by a doctor,
:15:46. > :15:48.is an investigation by a doctor appointed by the US Secretary
:15:49. > :15:54.General. We consider this as purely a UN mission that was deported
:15:55. > :15:59.because Syria at that time was not a state party and this was the only
:16:00. > :16:04.mechanism. Therefore, I am not really in a position to discuss the
:16:05. > :16:14.details of this report. Why? Nine of the 12 of the team were OPCW staff.
:16:15. > :16:18.Are you not saying anything now because Syria is a member state
:16:19. > :16:23.Eleanor not at all. Since the beginning of this process, it was
:16:24. > :16:31.considered purely a UN process. `` not at all. All the information is
:16:32. > :16:37.considered UN property. You might say you know... The inspectors are
:16:38. > :16:43.reporting to the US Secretary General, not to me. Have you not
:16:44. > :16:49.seen the report? No, not before it was concluded. It has been
:16:50. > :16:53.concluded. Yes, I read it. There will be a final report in about one
:16:54. > :17:00.week or ten days to be Sydney to the secretary general. Will it apportion
:17:01. > :17:04.blame? I don't think so. The mandate was to investigate whether chemical
:17:05. > :17:09.weapons were used or not. And it was found that they were. But one of the
:17:10. > :17:14.difficulties you will know that people have here is that you are not
:17:15. > :17:19.wanting to apportion blame, not wanting to point the finger, perhaps
:17:20. > :17:22.at the regime, and you will know that opposition groups in Damascus
:17:23. > :17:28.and elsewhere say that the of the deal that was done, as a result of
:17:29. > :17:36.the Russian brokered deal that avoided US intervening militarily,
:17:37. > :17:41.was that Assad was given the green light by the international community
:17:42. > :17:45.that he can kill his people by conventional means, does not buy
:17:46. > :17:47.chemical weapons and that was the suggestion of opposition groups in
:17:48. > :17:57.Damascus as a result of your team writing Syria. Actually, it would be
:17:58. > :18:01.unfair to blame the OPCW or the UN to be involved in such a deal. I
:18:02. > :18:09.don't think it's correct. I think what we have been doing, in fact, to
:18:10. > :18:13.fulfil the tasks entrusted to both the OPCW and the OPCW and be when
:18:14. > :18:19.baby international community or within the mandate of the Secretary
:18:20. > :18:23.General himself. The decision was made by the Russian Federation and
:18:24. > :18:29.the United States on the 14th of September. To eliminate the chemical
:18:30. > :18:36.weapons in Syria. I don't think it's connected to one issue or another,
:18:37. > :18:40.nor does a deal exist. To you accept one of the consequences of it is it
:18:41. > :18:47.good along the wall in Syria? My expectation is the opposite. `` the
:18:48. > :18:51.war. For the first time, for more than 2.5 years, the international
:18:52. > :18:56.community, including the major powers, were able to agree on one
:18:57. > :19:04.area related to the Syrian conflict, the annihilation of Syrian
:19:05. > :19:10.chemical weapons. This area might be a little limited to some but still
:19:11. > :19:13.it's a very important area and I hope and expect that the
:19:14. > :19:21.international community can build on this agreement and pave the way for
:19:22. > :19:29.a wider dialogue and negotiations in order to address the Syrian problem.
:19:30. > :19:33.If we can keep this momentum and if the second to it the conference is
:19:34. > :19:39.held in January, I hope we can also use this process as a catalyst ``
:19:40. > :19:44.Geneva conference. But up until a certain point, it looks like
:19:45. > :19:48.President Assad had tremendous pressure on him and suddenly he is
:19:49. > :19:52.off the hook. You know opposition groups in Syria, as much as they may
:19:53. > :19:57.want to mingle weapons removed, see an entirely different balance of
:19:58. > :20:02.power in the country `` want to chemical weapons removed. My mandate
:20:03. > :20:08.is limited to the removal of chemical weapons. I don't think I am
:20:09. > :20:13.in the right place to comment on why is there a problem in Syria. Of
:20:14. > :20:18.course as a human being I am very sad about the situation in Syria.
:20:19. > :20:26.And by the tremendous number of losses of life. Innocent people are
:20:27. > :20:32.being killed every day. Over 10 ,000 people have been killed over the
:20:33. > :20:38.past 2.5 years. Of course I want this conflict to end as soon as
:20:39. > :20:40.possible. 5000 people every month. Something like 1000 of those were
:20:41. > :20:46.killed by chemical weapons, the rest by conventional. One can't help but
:20:47. > :20:50.wonder what the difference is. Whether guns and bombs are less
:20:51. > :21:00.barbaric than gas. No one could argue with that. There is no
:21:01. > :21:09.monopoly of... The atrocities... Various aspects of the weapons. Gen
:21:10. > :21:14.Y, to use the words of Nobel citation, your work as defined use
:21:15. > :21:19.of chemical weapons as to do under international law `` Gen Y. But they
:21:20. > :21:26.are no worse than any other weapon? I wouldn't say so. After the massive
:21:27. > :21:32.use of chemical weapons in the First World War in 1915, and the repeated
:21:33. > :21:36.use of chemical weapons in different wars and conflicts, the
:21:37. > :21:43.international community decided that those weapons should be eliminated.
:21:44. > :21:49.Because of their effects on the human beings. Because of the
:21:50. > :21:55.suffering. Because of the long`term effects. They decided that they
:21:56. > :22:00.should be, you know, gotten rid of. So, this doesn't mean the other
:22:01. > :22:06.weapons should continue to be used, not at all. There are actually
:22:07. > :22:10.remarkably few countries that have signed or ratified the agreement.
:22:11. > :22:16.Two who have side are Myanmar and Israel. If you've had the Israeli
:22:17. > :22:19.Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, sitting here with you, about to
:22:20. > :22:27.collect the Nobel Peace Prize, what would you say to him? I know
:22:28. > :22:36.Israel's concerns. Security concerns. And I was told that this
:22:37. > :22:38.prevented them from joining in the previous years. I believe the
:22:39. > :22:44.situation has changed considerably now because of Syria joining the
:22:45. > :22:50.convention. And I would in fact call upon him to reconsider the position
:22:51. > :22:58.and to join the organisation as soon as possible. Can you see any reason
:22:59. > :23:02.why he wouldn't? I don't know. Every country is solo in their decision
:23:03. > :23:06.and they may have some concerns we do know about. I believe the
:23:07. > :23:09.decision to them. We met a few months ago when you had first been
:23:10. > :23:14.awarded the prize and one sensed a sort of surprise on the part of the
:23:15. > :23:17.organisation and yourself, that you had been given the price. I wonder
:23:18. > :23:23.if there was almost something that could have happened that would make
:23:24. > :23:27.you feel satisfied and comfortable and a worthy recipient of the price?
:23:28. > :23:35.Is there something you would point to that says, when we have done
:23:36. > :23:39.this, yes. I surprise wasn't linked to lack of confidence or any sense
:23:40. > :23:50.of us not deserving it. That wasn't so. What I was expecting, in fact,
:23:51. > :23:58.to make a little more progress. We are now at the level of 82, which is
:23:59. > :24:02.very considerable. 82%? Yes. Enormous resources have been
:24:03. > :24:04.allocated to the destruction of chemical weapons, within the US, and
:24:05. > :24:11.chemical weapons, within the US and elsewhere. And I thought that maybe
:24:12. > :24:20.we could be awarded at 90%. It came little earlier, which we are pleased
:24:21. > :24:21.very much. Ahmet Uzumcu, thank you very much for coming on HARDtalk.
:24:22. > :24:43.Thank you. A lot of fine and settled weather
:24:44. > :24:47.around this week. Not much wet weather around. Remaining very mild
:24:48. > :24:52.for this time of year. Most places dry, if cloudy. Also breezy,
:24:53. > :24:56.particularly across western parts. The breeze is warm. Coming from the
:24:57. > :25:00.south or south`west. Coming up around an area of high pressure
:25:01. > :25:06.centred over Europe. The influence of that high keeping us dry. Where
:25:07. > :25:12.we have clear skies it could turn chilly in eastern areas. You could
:25:13. > :25:13.encounter mist and fog. For the rest of us,