:00:00. > :00:12.he was gay in a magazine interview last April. That is it for me, and
:00:13. > :00:22.now it is time for Hard Talk. Welcome to Hard Talk, I am Stephen
:00:23. > :00:28.Sackur. How stable and sustainable is Israel's government? It relies on
:00:29. > :00:33.a right-wing Zionist parts are supportive of the secular movement.
:00:34. > :00:39.What happens to that coalition as the Americans tried to push Israel
:00:40. > :00:46.towards a land-for peace deal with the Palestinians? Is the Israeli
:00:47. > :01:22.Right about to splinter? Naftali Bennett, welcome. Great to
:01:23. > :01:28.be here. Are you comfortable to be a part of a government that is
:01:29. > :01:35.petitioning for a 2-part peace deal with the Palestinians? It is a
:01:36. > :01:40.complicated situation. When I joined I said I realise what his goal is,
:01:41. > :01:46.and I do not want to bother him. He can go ahead and seek an
:01:47. > :01:52.arrangement. I will respect the results, no matter what they are.
:01:53. > :01:58.Those are the frameworks while we differ on opinion. That sounds like
:01:59. > :02:05.a great gentleman 's agreement but it appears you have broken it. You
:02:06. > :02:13.shared these, our forefathers and descendants will not forgive an
:02:14. > :02:21.Israeli leader who gives up land and divides Palestinians. That is
:02:22. > :02:26.correct. It has been our home for 500 years and I think it would be a
:02:27. > :02:31.grave mistake to divide our country. We have tried this approach
:02:32. > :02:37.for the last 20 years, and it has not worked. We are bashing our heads
:02:38. > :02:41.together again because every time we broke for a piece of land, it
:02:42. > :02:48.results in missiles being launched on us. We did it in Gaza or three
:02:49. > :02:53.times already. We handed land over to the Arabs and within days they
:02:54. > :03:02.started shooting missiles at us. It is clearly not work in. I want to
:03:03. > :03:07.get into your position soon, but what about your relationship with
:03:08. > :03:16.your boss? You told me at the beginning of the interview you told
:03:17. > :03:22.him you wouldn't bother him, but you are. You said you would not forgive
:03:23. > :03:28.him and you were accusing him of potentially betraying the nation. I
:03:29. > :03:36.am not accusing anyone of betrayal. His office was so furious that it
:03:37. > :03:41.amounted an immediate apology. I am happy that it is a democracy and we
:03:42. > :03:44.can debate things within the government. While we are a
:03:45. > :03:50.coalition, we still have disagreements. There is a large
:03:51. > :03:54.number of Israelis who think it is a profound mistake to hand more land
:03:55. > :04:02.over and hopefully this time it will bring about peace. Do you apologise
:04:03. > :04:08.for essentially, coming back to that word, accusing the Prime Minister of
:04:09. > :04:15.betrayal? No. He said he will sack you if you do not apologise. So
:04:16. > :04:20.either he backed down or you do. You are referring to a different
:04:21. > :04:28.statement regarding misleading Israelis, and I said that notion is
:04:29. > :04:38.a bad idea. I think it was part of the same speech. He said this was
:04:39. > :04:42.part of a 2-part solution. Jewish settlers could remain under
:04:43. > :04:47.Palestinian sovereignty. The problem is history has taught us that every
:04:48. > :04:53.time Jews live under Arab sovereignty, they were butchered.
:04:54. > :05:00.This was the man you promised that she wouldn't intervene with. You
:05:01. > :05:04.said you would leave it alone. It is about the balance of power within
:05:05. > :05:09.the Israeli government. Either you back down or he backs down. Which
:05:10. > :05:15.was at? When I said I wouldn't allow the peace talks to happen, we are.
:05:16. > :05:21.We are allowing them to happen. I said, go into the room, take as much
:05:22. > :05:26.time as you need whether it is six days, weeks or years. Bring the
:05:27. > :05:39.deal, but they haven't. That does not mean I have to be mute about my
:05:40. > :05:41.opinions, I will speak up. That is one of our problems, but we haven't
:05:42. > :05:45.spoken up about the truth until now. But you can't just say I will speak
:05:46. > :05:50.up and let the process play out. You have seriously breach inside the
:05:51. > :05:57.government. We believe, according to sources of the United States, that
:05:58. > :06:06.John Kerry may be looking for a restriction settlement from Israel
:06:07. > :06:17.as part of the frameworks to move this peace process forward. Would
:06:18. > :06:22.you support a construction freeze? I think stopping anyone from living
:06:23. > :06:29.our land is a mistake. By the way, nobody is asking the Palestinians to
:06:30. > :06:35.freeze their building. If it were mutual, but would be another thing.
:06:36. > :06:40.Will you support and accept the concept of a construction freeze as
:06:41. > :06:50.part of John Kerry is a framework as part of moves in this peace process
:06:51. > :06:59.forward. Of course not. So it would be a dealbreaker... No
:07:00. > :07:03.demonstrations on the street. You can walk around Israel, everybody is
:07:04. > :07:12.leading their lives. If you want more time take more time. The
:07:13. > :07:15.Palestinians do not recognise Israel as the Jewish state. They used to
:07:16. > :07:21.say there were two states the two peoples. They don't say that any
:07:22. > :07:24.more, it is just two states. They want separate states for
:07:25. > :07:34.Palestinians and Israel. They are not willing to accept it, so why
:07:35. > :07:40.should we? He has said it is not an issue. We have recognised Israel.
:07:41. > :07:53.Recognising the Jewish nature of the state of Israel is different, said
:07:54. > :08:04.Mr Arik. 1.5 million Palestinians that live inside Israel that are not
:08:05. > :08:07.Jewish... What will happen to their descendants. Some of them think they
:08:08. > :08:12.should be allowed back to their ancestors home within your country.
:08:13. > :08:19.That is unfinished business. That is exactly the point. He is saying to
:08:20. > :08:28.divide the land and give us half. Now let's start debating your half
:08:29. > :08:37.and make it into a bilateral state. There are 300 times the size of our
:08:38. > :08:44.tiny state. From the ocean to the Green line, it is a ten minute ride.
:08:45. > :08:50.That is how narrow our state is. But he wants a piece of that. He needs
:08:51. > :08:56.to recognise Israel as a Jewish state. The Jewish nation only has
:08:57. > :09:02.one state in the whole world, and that is Israel. If he wants it to be
:09:03. > :09:05.a multinational state, he wants his states and the day we find that a
:09:06. > :09:15.deal he will be fighting for the small Jewish State. Isn't a
:09:16. > :09:22.fundamental as he at the heart of your argument is that you will never
:09:23. > :09:37.accept a two states nation because all of the lands belongs to a
:09:38. > :09:42.Israel. It stars. This land has been out for thousands of years.
:09:43. > :09:51.Yesterday I gave a coin to Martin Schultz as a gift, it was 2000 years
:09:52. > :09:58.old. America has been in American land and even British in British
:09:59. > :10:05.land. I recognise that Palestinians have aspirations and they are not
:10:06. > :10:11.going anywhere, but neither are we. We have to learn to live together.
:10:12. > :10:19.Why don't you give them sovereignty? Because everytime we
:10:20. > :10:30.did they kill us. Would you hand over half of Britain to somebody who
:10:31. > :10:38.keeps killing you. So your sort -- solution is to have Palestinians
:10:39. > :10:43.living in the West Bank permanently stateless? When I was a businessman
:10:44. > :10:53.we tried distraction. Again and again, in 1995. They were willing to
:10:54. > :11:00.give them something, and in response they killed Israelis. It is not
:11:01. > :11:09.working. I want to try a different approach. When something doesn't
:11:10. > :11:20.work, bring in a new guy mentioned. It is not working. I am a rational
:11:21. > :11:25.person. When I see something not working, I try something else. But
:11:26. > :11:33.something else is peace between the people. I am to building day in and
:11:34. > :11:38.day out businesses to bridge Palestinians and Israelis together.
:11:39. > :11:44.You have not been there for a while, but there are more and more
:11:45. > :11:50.businesses and economy, and that is the real bridge to peace. Clearly
:11:51. > :11:56.the diplomats are failing. I have been there are very recently. I
:11:57. > :12:04.don't live there any more... I offer you a personal tour. You have to see
:12:05. > :12:10.what is going on. It is good. I wonder if you have any idea what is
:12:11. > :12:14.going on in Palestinians heads and hearts. Because when you told me it
:12:15. > :12:21.is beautiful and that Palestinians are going to accept this idea that
:12:22. > :12:32.they will live stateless, that is delusional. It will never happen.
:12:33. > :12:36.What you don't understand is to be killed again and again when you hand
:12:37. > :12:40.over land. What would you do is everytime you hand over land to the
:12:41. > :12:52.Arabs, from that location they shoot missiles at your home? Would you do
:12:53. > :13:04.it again? Address this question from an influential, prominent... Anti-
:13:05. > :13:11.Israeli. He said to refuse a 2-stage deal you have to believe that the
:13:12. > :13:17.Palestinians will ultimately embrace their disenfranchisement, and that
:13:18. > :13:25.is the real naivete. The difference between he and I is that I have
:13:26. > :13:38.fought in every battle since 1990. And you have lost children and
:13:39. > :13:48.family? I have. It is my kids who will need to pay the price for
:13:49. > :13:53.naivete. 1000 people blew up in Tel Aviv when we did hand over land. Now
:13:54. > :14:01.I have to fight back and recapture it. You seem to be ignoring that by
:14:02. > :14:13.asking this question. I don't ignore the suffering and loss on both
:14:14. > :14:17.sides. What you are ignoring... Look at the Palestinians experienced
:14:18. > :14:24.since 1998. I think about some of the things you have said in the
:14:25. > :14:32.past, and in 2010 you said is, you were still climbing in trees when we
:14:33. > :14:45.had a state. When you are talk about the Palestinians, to you have any
:14:46. > :14:51.empathy? I have empathy. He said that they were here before us but we
:14:52. > :14:54.went here before them. Palestinians listen to that language and they
:14:55. > :15:02.feel politicians... You can focus again and again on that term or the
:15:03. > :15:07.reality. We have a tiny home, one home for the Jews. There are Arabs
:15:08. > :15:13.that has 22 states that are much bigger. That is all we have got,
:15:14. > :15:17.that is what we have had the ever. One democracy in the middle east. We
:15:18. > :15:24.have the Supreme Court, freedom all speech. He is a member of our
:15:25. > :15:32.parliament, an Arab Israeli. Show me in Jordan or serial one Jewish
:15:33. > :15:35.Member of Parliament. We are the only democracy who gives free rides
:15:36. > :15:42.on equal rights to women, anyone can speak up in Israel and everyone
:15:43. > :15:46.does. The reality is you and your ideology are out of step with your
:15:47. > :15:53.prime minister, Manu Tuilagi, and Tzipi Livni, -- with your prime
:15:54. > :15:58.minister Benjamin Netanyahu. You are out of step with international
:15:59. > :16:02.community and the Obama Administration. As a result of being
:16:03. > :16:08.out of step with those people, you're ready to contemplate
:16:09. > :16:13.Israel's diplomatic and economic isolation. You ready it that? It is
:16:14. > :16:18.quite the contrary. The fact a lot of people think something, does not
:16:19. > :16:23.make it right. History teaches us common wisdom is correct 50% of the
:16:24. > :16:28.titles. To hand over land to my enemy and hope that somehow... We
:16:29. > :16:36.have gone through... We have rehearsed... However... You are
:16:37. > :16:40.talking about the entire world. Let me tell you you I do have, the
:16:41. > :16:45.Israeli public. The younger generation is flocking to my party
:16:46. > :16:49.because they look at reality not from Washington, DC, not from
:16:50. > :16:54.London, but from the ground up and we see reality. The Israeli people
:16:55. > :17:01.are willing again and again to have a peace but we got terrorists. We
:17:02. > :17:06.have to look at reality. There are other ways but, no, everyone is
:17:07. > :17:11.insisting to bash ahead and create a third in the TADA stop it you want
:17:12. > :17:17.to be internationally isolated and want war, set up at a hostile state.
:17:18. > :17:22.I am not talking about bashing heads, and took about people outside
:17:23. > :17:25.of Israel looking at the policies of the Israeli government and deciding
:17:26. > :17:30.they got to pursue a policy which might include divestments, might
:17:31. > :17:35.include at some point, sanctions, some are talking about boycotts.
:17:36. > :17:38.There are many Israelis, including business leaders who have met with
:17:39. > :17:42.your prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and said that they must
:17:43. > :17:48.make peace with Palestine because we cannot afford not to. Yes, I would
:17:49. > :17:53.ask those business people how would Israel was the economy look first
:17:54. > :18:01.time a plane is shot down from the West bank? How will our economy and
:18:02. > :18:08.tourism be when we get to measles a day into Tel Aviv, not the tender
:18:09. > :18:15.measles we get now. I understand their desire for peace. -- missiles.
:18:16. > :18:19.But we have to face reality. We live in a real place. Not Lala land.
:18:20. > :18:26.Anyone who thinks of the investing or boycotting Israel, that is
:18:27. > :18:30.outrageous. We have a partake going on in Lebanon and Syria. In this
:18:31. > :18:37.area they butchered an hundred thousand people. In Iran, you are
:18:38. > :18:41.killed if you protest. In Israel, is the only place of freedom - that is
:18:42. > :18:47.where you are going to boycott explanation might interesting you
:18:48. > :18:50.introduced apartheid. It reminds people of South Africa and the
:18:51. > :18:56.sanction campaign against the apartheid regime there. A senior
:18:57. > :19:06.industrial, an important Israeli company, says it is reminiscent of
:19:07. > :19:10.South Africa in the 1970s and we need to learn the lesson of what
:19:11. > :19:16.happened that not these things start small but they quickly gather
:19:17. > :19:19.momentum. The reality is, and your business leaders are telling you,
:19:20. > :19:26.Minister of economy, that Israel cannot afford to be economically
:19:27. > :19:34.isolated. We are not economically isolated. The fourth quarter of 2013
:19:35. > :19:45.was the best quarter. We sold the company for $9 billion. I do not buy
:19:46. > :19:49.all that talk about... It is not talk, with all due respect, are you
:19:50. > :19:54.aware that the Netherlands's biggest pension fund has a ready backed out
:19:55. > :20:02.of investment in five Israeli banks? You are where the EU has a reading
:20:03. > :20:07.poster banned on grants and loans to institutions that have operations in
:20:08. > :20:12.the West Bank - you know all this. If someone does not want to invest
:20:13. > :20:15.beyond the green light, so be it. Really there is a debate of the land
:20:16. > :20:20.is disputed. There are different opinions to my own. I cannot tell
:20:21. > :20:34.the European country what to do that rocketed. -- their prerogative. But
:20:35. > :20:45.it would be self-defeating. The regatta system is Israeli, the
:20:46. > :20:52.navigation system is the Israeli. One of your ministers says the
:20:53. > :20:59.economy is much more vulnerable than secure. Yesterday I was at a summit
:21:00. > :21:04.at the EU of economy ministers from around the world. Everyone wants to
:21:05. > :21:08.see how we built another start-up nation. How we get this unique
:21:09. > :21:13.innovation that we have in Israel and we are helping out in India,
:21:14. > :21:16.Africa, all around the world. We are doing amazing things. The way to
:21:17. > :21:25.growing economies to continue innovating, creating jobs around the
:21:26. > :21:28.world. You can turn it to people from different industries, high-tech
:21:29. > :21:37.companies, they say that the tech sector does not make us in Israel
:21:38. > :21:41.invulnerable. The software sector can be here. It is it for companies
:21:42. > :21:46.to move across borders. The people at the top of business in your
:21:47. > :21:48.country are now getting worried. That is very interesting because
:21:49. > :21:55.just over the past year, Google set up shop in Israel, Microsoft,
:21:56. > :22:01.Facebook, has set up shop. His fellow small centres than anywhere
:22:02. > :22:06.around the world. But they do not have to stay. They are in a
:22:07. > :22:11.country... The whole problem with your approach, Stephen, is that it
:22:12. > :22:17.has nothing to do with reality, beyond that is perfect. We are
:22:18. > :22:24.getting more foreign investment into Israel because people appreciate our
:22:25. > :22:26.economy and respect how being the only democracy in the middle east.
:22:27. > :22:31.That forget that the one moment not shabby any other country that treats
:22:32. > :22:35.its minority the way we do. We are not blowing up mosques like others
:22:36. > :22:41.are blowing up churches. We respect everyone. I know it is hard to you
:22:42. > :22:45.to recognise but we are a free country. Two point want to put to
:22:46. > :22:55.you quickly. One is with the US. You can deeply about the US. Your
:22:56. > :22:58.parents came from the US to Israel. Would you accept that relations
:22:59. > :23:04.between the US government and Israel are at the lowest air. They are
:23:05. > :23:09.poisonous. Not at all. America is our biggest ally. We have the
:23:10. > :23:16.intelligence and economic relationships. It is our number one
:23:17. > :23:25.trade partner. From Robert Gates has made recent book... We have recent
:23:26. > :23:31.disagreements. But that is a cave. America is a good friend, as is
:23:32. > :23:37.Britain. A good friend? Have you read Robert Gates? I can read one
:23:38. > :23:40.opinion and I can read another. Your job is to pinpoint what certain
:23:41. > :23:46.people think and I am telling you that I see more and American
:23:47. > :23:52.investment coming into is shot, more American intelligence collaboration
:23:53. > :23:56.with us and, yes, we have disagreements on the Palestinian and
:23:57. > :24:03.Iranian industry but friends can disagree. We have to leave it there.
:24:04. > :24:27.Thank you to being on HARDtalk. It was a pleasure, thank you.
:24:28. > :24:33.It has been a weekend of contrasts. Some places are dry. Others, a huge
:24:34. > :24:36.amount of rainfall, especially in western Scotland. The weather front
:24:37. > :24:40.responsible for that is slowly weakening. But it is still there
:24:41. > :24:45.first thing in the morning. A narrow band of rain is straddling the heart
:24:46. > :24:51.of the UK. Dry on either side. Some sharp bursts of rain in the morning
:24:52. > :24:52.across parts of the West Country and up into Wales. To the west of