:00:00. > :00:00.and a civil liberties organisation she worked for in the 1970s. Ed
:00:00. > :00:12.Miliband says she has his full support. Now, it's time for
:00:13. > :00:15.HARDtalk. Welcome to HARDtalk. After the
:00:16. > :00:19.revolutionary tumult in Ukraine, what comes next? The country is
:00:20. > :00:28.financially crippled, internally divided and a cockpit of tension
:00:29. > :00:32.between Moscow and the West. Who can hold Ukraine together? Tonight, I
:00:33. > :00:35.speak to Eugenia Tymoshenko. Her mother Yulia is the former prime
:00:36. > :00:40.minister, newly released from prison and widely seen as a powerful
:00:41. > :00:42.contender for Ukraine's presidency. Her name has pulling power, but is
:00:43. > :01:23.Yulia Tymoshenko what Ukraine needs? Yulia Tymoshenko what Ukraine needs?
:01:24. > :01:30.Welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you so much. It's great to be here. Well,
:01:31. > :01:33.you have been through an extraordinary week. Extraordinary
:01:34. > :01:38.for your country and, of course, for your family as well. Tell me what it
:01:39. > :01:44.has been like to live through it. Well, of course it has been a very
:01:45. > :01:50.long fight. It's not just the last 2.5 years. It's actually been four
:01:51. > :01:55.years since Yanukovych came to power and started his repression against
:01:56. > :02:03.the opposition, to imprison opposition leaders and others to
:02:04. > :02:07.make his coup d'etat and start his attack on civil society and
:02:08. > :02:14.journalists and slowly built up his dictatorship. Of course, just a few
:02:15. > :02:17.days ago when the new majority in the parliament, the constitutional
:02:18. > :02:22.majority, voted for my mother's immediate release, it was
:02:23. > :02:27.unbelievable. I thought this moment would never arrive. So much effort
:02:28. > :02:32.was put through not just for my mother's freedom but for the freedom
:02:33. > :02:36.of Ukraine from the risk of authoritarianism, freedom of Ukraine
:02:37. > :02:42.from the post`Soviet corrupt elites from the legacy, and finally, we
:02:43. > :02:48.could see that probably the way forward towards a European future is
:02:49. > :02:53.paved now and is being paid. We will get to those big issues in the
:02:54. > :02:58.course of this interview. But just tell me about the release of your
:02:59. > :03:03.mother. As you say, it all happened so quickly. The parliament voted to
:03:04. > :03:08.have her immediately released from prison and not long afterwards,
:03:09. > :03:13.there she was in Independence Square behind you. Tell me what that was
:03:14. > :03:21.all like formal point of view. Well, of course, the first day of voting
:03:22. > :03:25.took place and we saw that it was a constitutional majority. We were
:03:26. > :03:29.never sure of that bipartisan support would support her immediate
:03:30. > :03:36.release and those people that were viewed by many as being enemies of
:03:37. > :03:39.the opposition. They realised and came out in the open. It was so
:03:40. > :03:47.emotional when this vote finally happened. Then after a few minutes,
:03:48. > :03:58.we actually realised that her life had been in danger in that place, in
:03:59. > :04:08.that stronghold, where it was very risky to leave her for a long time
:04:09. > :04:17.given that the presidential administration directly controls the
:04:18. > :04:23.penitential system straight down to her guards. It was a very stressful
:04:24. > :04:28.time of my life and then I saw her in the airport in Kiev and she was
:04:29. > :04:32.in a wheelchair, surrounded by so many people greeting her, wearing a
:04:33. > :04:41.bullet`proof jacket, believe it or not, because we understand the
:04:42. > :04:43.situation here and she is still a dangerous politician for the regime,
:04:44. > :04:50.which is still breathing. Another big emotion when she `` was when she
:04:51. > :04:54.saw her mother and she had not seen her mother for three years and she
:04:55. > :04:57.had not been able to see her while she was on hunger strike, when she
:04:58. > :05:03.was being beaten, while she was under this pressure. Her mother was
:05:04. > :05:08.always there, barely surviving and waiting for her. The family reunion
:05:09. > :05:13.happened and of course we are thankful most of all to the people
:05:14. > :05:21.at Maidan, who fought for this victory and who died under the
:05:22. > :05:25.bullets. There should not have been such a high cost for such political
:05:26. > :05:30.changes to happen. It should have been done much earlier and these
:05:31. > :05:35.changes should have been without blood. For those of us who have been
:05:36. > :05:40.used to seeing photographs of your mother while she has been in prison,
:05:41. > :05:45.when she came out, she looked frail. But she seemed absolutely determined
:05:46. > :05:50.to address the crowd with you by her side in Independence Square as soon
:05:51. > :05:54.as she possibly could. Is that a signal from her to the nation that
:05:55. > :06:01.she is absolutely determined to play a big political role? You know, she
:06:02. > :06:09.has never actually left politics or the political fight. She has been
:06:10. > :06:14.2.5 years in prison and even though she was always isolated and under
:06:15. > :06:16.pressure, she always kept in touch with the opposition and tried to
:06:17. > :06:22.keep in touch with people. She managed to unite the opposition
:06:23. > :06:27.before the last elections so they could stand as a single front and
:06:28. > :06:34.she watched over the last months with great support and devastation
:06:35. > :06:39.for the people who died through the violent and were used by the regime
:06:40. > :06:44.in this stand`off. She watched the great courage of Ukrainian people.
:06:45. > :06:48.These feelings fulfilled her so much and she wants to use this
:06:49. > :06:52.opportunity to get out and speak to people and tell them how proud she
:06:53. > :06:58.was to be Ukrainian and how grateful she was for what they have done to
:06:59. > :07:04.free their country. So, of course, it has been very emotional for her,
:07:05. > :07:08.the welcome at Maidan, and I think that people were greeting her,
:07:09. > :07:14.saying she was a hero. At the same time, it was a very sad day and that
:07:15. > :07:21.continues because there are now days of mourning for those who died and
:07:22. > :07:24.she, of course, mentioned that, saying that the first priority is to
:07:25. > :07:30.pay tribute to those who died by doing everything possible to change
:07:31. > :07:35.this place for the better. It seems to me that she had a choice when she
:07:36. > :07:42.went to Independence Square, to Maidan, to make that address. She
:07:43. > :07:47.could have struck a note of harm and conciliation or she could have in a
:07:48. > :07:55.sense roused the crowd with a very populist and somewhat angry message.
:07:56. > :07:59.`` calm and conciliation. It seems she did the latter. One thing she
:08:00. > :08:04.said was if we let people who shop bullets into the heart, if we
:08:05. > :08:08.forgive them, it will be our shame forever. Do you think that was the
:08:09. > :08:15.right message at the right time? Well, I think that Maidan here and
:08:16. > :08:19.the people here... I was just passing on the street where people
:08:20. > :08:27.were killed by bullets of the police. Thousands, thousands of
:08:28. > :08:35.flowers. Hundreds of people. Hiding behind shields of thin metal and
:08:36. > :08:41.wood. Shot up to five times. At least five bullet shots through
:08:42. > :08:46.them. And the whole world saw this horrible picture of murder. And my
:08:47. > :08:52.mother was also sitting there, watching and crying. And not only
:08:53. > :08:57.Ukrainians were devastated by this and shocked. Many European leaders
:08:58. > :09:01.said the next day that Yanukovych's hands were covered in blood, as were
:09:02. > :09:06.those who encouraged and allowed such murders against people. And
:09:07. > :09:17.here, Maidan will not feel justice until those people are brought to
:09:18. > :09:21.the criminal punishment for those murders. Even Konchesky killed less
:09:22. > :09:33.people than Yanukovych during this up people. `` during this up evil.
:09:34. > :09:39.Sure, but justice and the rule of law... We know right now in Kiev and
:09:40. > :09:43.other parts of Ukraine, there is a form of vigilantes street justice
:09:44. > :09:47.being meted out. Those who are deemed to have been supporters of
:09:48. > :09:52.Yanukovych are being pulled out of cars and beaten up. There are some
:09:53. > :09:57.reports that the former chief of staff of Yanukovych has been injured
:09:58. > :10:06.in an attack. That surely cannot be good for Ukraine's immediate future.
:10:07. > :10:14.And she completely agrees. Apart from this message that you quoted,
:10:15. > :10:20.she says that now is the time also for the people who stood in Maidan,
:10:21. > :10:26.for those who were standing under the bullets, to guarantee that the
:10:27. > :10:33.unity of Ukraine is a reality, that we move forward while paying tribute
:10:34. > :10:35.and honoured to these people by punishing those who are
:10:36. > :10:41.responsible. At the time, she says this is a new Ukraine and a new
:10:42. > :10:47.Ukraine needs change and this change cannot only be provided by
:10:48. > :10:51.politicians. She has apologised for that and the mistakes of inaction.
:10:52. > :10:55.She says the Ukrainian people are wise enough to lead their country
:10:56. > :11:00.without violence. That is why now, she is meeting opposition leaders
:11:01. > :11:07.day and night, together with the leaders of the civil society from
:11:08. > :11:13.East and West, from the former government and from the opposition,
:11:14. > :11:20.trying to build this platform of unity for the people of Ukraine to
:11:21. > :11:28.move forward. And today, when she met Catherine Ashton, she mentioned
:11:29. > :11:34.the priorities that she and the other leaders agreed to. And they
:11:35. > :11:38.are that Maidan will not leave until they feel that justice is done for
:11:39. > :11:44.those who were killing their people on the streets, and second, that
:11:45. > :11:48.what is being formed as a government of national unity, and the whole
:11:49. > :11:57.opposition is making sure that the leaders of the civil society are
:11:58. > :12:01.included in a maximum we in the construction of the new political
:12:02. > :12:06.system. Next, we need the financial and economic help to really have
:12:07. > :12:12.Ukraine survive. Because Yanukovych left it in a devastating economic
:12:13. > :12:17.state. Let me ask you some blunt and simple questions. You talk about the
:12:18. > :12:20.need for national unity and the need for different political forces to
:12:21. > :12:25.come together. Simply, does your mother intended to run for the
:12:26. > :12:30.presidency? We know that the election is scheduled for the 25th
:12:31. > :12:40.of May. Will she be a candidate? So far, she has not made any direct
:12:41. > :12:44.announcement about going for prime minister or a president. She has not
:12:45. > :12:52.mentioned political positions. She has done this so that, for sure, now
:12:53. > :12:57.is not the time to do so. At the moment, there is emergency work
:12:58. > :13:01.needed to follow through the priorities that I mentioned before.
:13:02. > :13:07.And of course, we are still first of all morning our dead, the heroes of
:13:08. > :13:12.Ukraine. We have to do our most to do what they feel just. And then
:13:13. > :13:16.talk about political positions. At the same time, Maidan and the people
:13:17. > :13:22.of Ukraine, the majority, ask for early elections. Presidential and
:13:23. > :13:25.parliamentary elections. The government has already voted for
:13:26. > :13:29.presidential elections, for the elections of Mao 's. This process is
:13:30. > :13:35.on, but so far, she has not made any statement. I appreciate that. We
:13:36. > :13:40.know the process is on. Vitali Klitschko, for example, has
:13:41. > :13:43.announced he will be a candidate representing his opposition movement
:13:44. > :13:47.in the election. Your mother is going to have to make a decision
:13:48. > :13:51.soon. I just wonder, and I put this to you bluntly, even though I am
:13:52. > :13:55.aware of what she has been through in the recent past, do you think
:13:56. > :13:59.your mother is aware there is a strong feeling in the country that
:14:00. > :14:04.she is not the right person to take Ukraine forward? That she is too
:14:05. > :14:11.tainted by the past, by allegations of corruption, by being a member of
:14:12. > :14:24.the old economic elite to be an effective, new figure in Ukraine's
:14:25. > :14:29.politics? She has never been accused of corruption or private gain. She
:14:30. > :14:37.has never been accused of these things. By the political leaders of
:14:38. > :14:43.the world that investigated all the background before making such
:14:44. > :14:51.statements. I'm referring to the charges on which she was convicted
:14:52. > :14:56.in 2011, I am talking about the fact that if you go back to the mid`19
:14:57. > :15:01.90s, she was known in Ukraine as the gas princess. She made a fortune and
:15:02. > :15:07.nobody knows how much it was, it was many millions of dollars. Because of
:15:08. > :15:12.her access to Ukraine's gas resources. One of her closest
:15:13. > :15:15.associates was convicted of serious financial crimes in the United
:15:16. > :15:19.States. Many Ukrainians leave that because of that record she is not
:15:20. > :15:29.the pit `` bright person to take your country forward? Via broadly
:15:30. > :15:34.been through this to say, she was a businesswoman connected, she had a
:15:35. > :15:39.corporation in D9 to ease, all the businesses had to deal with
:15:40. > :15:43.politicians. She was the one which was on the top of her business
:15:44. > :15:47.career, refused to be a businesswoman. She left the
:15:48. > :15:54.corporation, the corporation was destroyed because she refused to be
:15:55. > :16:02.part of corrupt schemes. Then she became a Member of Parliament. 17
:16:03. > :16:04.years ago, she was never considered an oligarch. She was never
:16:05. > :16:10.considered to have the fortunes of those who owned television channels.
:16:11. > :16:15.These conversations were rejected by the California State District Court
:16:16. > :16:27.back in 2004 and she was tried to be dirt. This was denied by the courts
:16:28. > :16:34.and never any more brought back. Only by oligarch channels in
:16:35. > :16:40.Ukraine. These allegations are in the past now. I understand she has
:16:41. > :16:45.enemies, but there are independent observers who have looked at the
:16:46. > :16:51.political situation and reached conclusions about your mother. One
:16:52. > :16:56.observer said my sense is that independent Square we can see behind
:16:57. > :17:02.you want is a new class of people, politicians. Clean people. Part of
:17:03. > :17:09.this movement was agreement clipped Chrissie? That is for sure. That is
:17:10. > :17:14.why people, thousands, hundreds of thousands of people came to greet my
:17:15. > :17:19.mother at Maidan. Hundreds of thousands of people called for her
:17:20. > :17:26.freedom, saying read to Yulia Tymoshenko, every time I walked on
:17:27. > :17:32.the stage. People who voted for her a supporting her as well? You are
:17:33. > :17:36.with your mother on the stage and this is what the Wall Street journal
:17:37. > :17:41.reported from the scene when your mother made her speech? The journal
:17:42. > :17:44.said, when she offered an apology on behalf of all politicians saying
:17:45. > :17:49.they had not been worthy of you, the people, and she pledged to change
:17:50. > :17:55.that, pockets of people in the crowd called out to your mother, we do not
:17:56. > :18:05.believe you. She does not have the support of the Maidan. It would not
:18:06. > :18:08.say so. I think we are now starting the new European page where people
:18:09. > :18:19.should be open and met for their opinions. No politician in Europe
:18:20. > :18:24.has 100% support or even 60% support by people. Of course, we are now
:18:25. > :18:27.entering the new Aero when people can express their opinions freely.
:18:28. > :18:32.They can criticise and they are not afraid to be beaten. And repressed.
:18:33. > :18:40.My mother when she was Prime Minister after she was put to jail,
:18:41. > :18:44.and then released when the President said he had no allegations against
:18:45. > :18:47.her and she was just political. She never took revenge on him when she
:18:48. > :18:57.was Prime Minister. She never took revenge against anyone. Now when a
:18:58. > :19:02.new opportunity comes for the freedom and critical elections,
:19:03. > :19:08.people will choose to vote with their support. As she has stepped
:19:09. > :19:13.out of prison, there were no provocations against her. And those
:19:14. > :19:17.who try to discredit her, understand she is a very important figure. And
:19:18. > :19:23.a competitor to some opposition leaders. She spoke to all of them
:19:24. > :19:28.and she said she will appeal to people who she feels will support
:19:29. > :19:32.her. The true key for the change as you might support in the democratic
:19:33. > :19:38.world is a free and fair election. I will run through two of the biggest
:19:39. > :19:41.challenges facing Ukraine? One, internal divisions. In the east and
:19:42. > :19:48.south of the country, where many people look towards Ross `` Mark
:19:49. > :19:52.Moscow where they speak Russian and are ethnically Russian in the
:19:53. > :19:58.Crimea, there are misgivings about what has happened in TF. Others your
:19:59. > :20:04.mother in ten to reach out to those people and politicians like Vladimir
:20:05. > :20:12.Putin in Moscow as well? My mother does not want to take a single out
:20:13. > :20:20.roll in despite for this political process to change the country. She
:20:21. > :20:23.has been very clear that before she united opposition she wants to act
:20:24. > :20:28.within the Opposition with politicians and civil society who
:20:29. > :20:34.respect her and welcomed her back to this process. Now it is a task, not
:20:35. > :20:39.only of politicians but of the people at Maidan who should really
:20:40. > :20:44.put together the forces to unite Ukraine, to start this unification.
:20:45. > :20:50.It has started already when the new majority was founded from the
:20:51. > :20:53.presidential defection, embers of Parliament to the Opposition. It is
:20:54. > :20:59.starting and it is a very difficult process. The European `` the
:21:00. > :21:08.European leaders can play this unifying role. Vladimir Putin said
:21:09. > :21:12.your mother was someone who he felt comfortable dealing with. Has she
:21:13. > :21:18.made any attempt to make contact with Vladimir Putin? She has never
:21:19. > :21:22.tempted to contact them. While their relationship was one of equals and
:21:23. > :21:27.it was when she was Prime Minister, and he was Prime Minister, they
:21:28. > :21:32.discussed the interests of their own countries on the basis of respect,
:21:33. > :21:36.mutual respect. As soon as my mother left prison, she made sure she
:21:37. > :21:42.thanked the leaders of the democratic world who with their with
:21:43. > :21:47.her, supporting her and fighting for her freedom as well as the people
:21:48. > :21:56.here and opposition leaders. Ukraine, and she believes Ukraine
:21:57. > :21:59.needs to find the way to peaceful economic coexistence. Of course,
:22:00. > :22:06.Ukrainian progress with all the neighbours it has. But not just by
:22:07. > :22:13.or risking integrity of Ukraine. She or risking integrity of Ukraine. She
:22:14. > :22:18.never changed her opinions. She has been consistent through her
:22:19. > :22:22.political career. She very much respect that. To be clear about the
:22:23. > :22:27.planning of your mother, she said when she came out of prison, the
:22:28. > :22:30.future of Ukraine had to be in Europe. Your mother wants ultimately
:22:31. > :22:39.to see Ukraine inside the European Union? I think today when meeting
:22:40. > :22:46.Baroness Ashton, she clearly said, as soon as the national unity
:22:47. > :22:52.government is formed, and the financial habit has been proposed by
:22:53. > :22:59.the democratic world, the next step very much demanded here are which is
:23:00. > :23:04.why Maidan came to be was to sign such an agreement. She said we need
:23:05. > :23:07.to take that step`by`step. You came panned for years to get the freedom
:23:08. > :23:11.of your mother, you have now spent a few days with her, everything from
:23:12. > :23:16.this conversation leads me to believe your mother will run for
:23:17. > :23:27.president? Am I correct. Do you think she will? I think it is not
:23:28. > :23:35.really the time to announce such political decisions. As a daughter,
:23:36. > :23:42.I want my mother first to be healthy and she agreed, of course, to go by
:23:43. > :23:48.invitation of Angela Merkel to a clinic to get better. That is what I
:23:49. > :23:54.wanted to do. Feel she should do that to protect her help. I think
:23:55. > :24:00.all other statements that she should make politically, would follow
:24:01. > :24:03.together with that. She made long consultations already with the
:24:04. > :24:08.tightly clutch cover and all the leaders of the Opposition who stood
:24:09. > :24:12.here at Maidan with others. They will make a very unified, very
:24:13. > :24:17.consolidated, constructive decision and you will hear soon about this.
:24:18. > :24:44.Eugenia Tymoshenko, thank you for joining us from TF. `` Kiev.
:24:45. > :24:52.A cold night out there compared with last night. A chilly start to your
:24:53. > :24:54.Wednesday morning. A touch of frost possible or country and upland
:24:55. > :24:55.areas.