:00:00. > :00:00.And now be missing is, it is time for HardTalk special with Dmitry
:00:00. > :00:17.Peskov. Welcome to HARDtalk. A small chunk
:00:18. > :00:22.of European territory is annexed by a mighty neighbouring power, it
:00:23. > :00:28.sounds like a chapter from the 20th century but it is a story unfolding
:00:29. > :00:34.right now in Crimea. Vladimir Putin has ignored the dark warnings from
:00:35. > :00:40.the West and rested Crimea from Ukraine with ruthless efficiency.
:00:41. > :00:42.What now? My guest is Dmitry Peskov, is Russia ready for this
:00:43. > :01:19.crisis to intensify? Dmitry Peskov in Moscow, thank you
:01:20. > :01:25.for joining me. My pleasure. We have seen a lot of flag`waving and
:01:26. > :01:32.triumphalism in Moscow, marking the annexation of Crimea. Is that what
:01:33. > :01:39.you are really feeling right now? A sense of triumph? A sense of
:01:40. > :01:44.triumph, it is emotional in Moscow and in Crimea also. I would not call
:01:45. > :01:52.it an annexation. I would rather prefer a word like Crimea joining
:01:53. > :01:56.the Russian Federation. It is not for you to choose the
:01:57. > :02:01.words that will be used around the world, other words are being used by
:02:02. > :02:05.other people in Europe there is a sense of foreboding, summed up by
:02:06. > :02:14.the Polish Foreign Minister who refers to this as a moment reviving
:02:15. > :02:24.the Nazis in the 1930s. I don't think 93% of the population
:02:25. > :02:28.of Crimea will join the opinion of the Polish Foreign Minister. And
:02:29. > :02:35.more than 90% of the population of the Russian Federation will
:02:36. > :02:42.definitely disagree with him and definitely it is not a proper
:02:43. > :02:46.comparison, especially for the Polish Foreign Minister.
:02:47. > :02:51.It is based upon Russia's military intervention, is it not and the
:02:52. > :02:57.referendum you regard as expressing a wish of the Crimean people was
:02:58. > :03:03.conducted under the barrels of Russian guns.
:03:04. > :03:09.No, not at all. We're not speaking about Russian intervention.
:03:10. > :03:15.President Putin has applied for Russian parliament in order to get
:03:16. > :03:22.it right in front of the takeover in Kiev and in front of an endangered
:03:23. > :03:30.Crimea people, he asked for a rights to use military in solving the
:03:31. > :03:36.conflict. This right was granted to the head of state but he never used
:03:37. > :03:40.the right, actually. So when we saw Russian troops on the
:03:41. > :03:46.ground guarding key buildings, playing a role on the streets of the
:03:47. > :03:53.major towns and cities, will be imagining that?
:03:54. > :03:56.You saw many local forces, local forces of self defence in Crimea and
:03:57. > :04:07.besides don't forget that in accordance with electoral agreement
:04:08. > :04:13.with Ukraine, Russia has a military base actually in Crimea.
:04:14. > :04:18.I have no doubt about that and they are naval forces who are supposed to
:04:19. > :04:24.operate out of Russian naval bases. I'm talking about Russian forces all
:04:25. > :04:28.over Crimea on the streets. The military personnel on the
:04:29. > :04:35.military base, the naval base, definitely was increased that
:04:36. > :04:41.without passing the limit that was stated in the agreement and that was
:04:42. > :04:49.emphasised by President Putin when he addressed the Russian parliament
:04:50. > :04:53.a couple of hours ago. We use the word triumphalism, the
:04:54. > :05:00.problem is he can be a triumphant as he once in front of his in people
:05:01. > :05:05.but the problem is he can claim this annexation, I will use that word,
:05:06. > :05:08.you can claim it is legal but the international community does not
:05:09. > :05:17.regard it as legal in anyway whatsoever. Row`macro yes. You are
:05:18. > :05:24.right. United States of America, Great Britain, the EU countries and
:05:25. > :05:34.other countries they went to declare in advance the referendum
:05:35. > :05:42.illegitimate. A couple of weeks in advance. By the way, it is a
:05:43. > :05:50.striking example of legal cynicism. No one has tried to announce in
:05:51. > :05:55.advance and illegal government in Kiev which came to power as a result
:05:56. > :06:00.of a takeover. We have had international legal
:06:01. > :06:05.scholars from many countries, not just western ones, saying it cannot
:06:06. > :06:10.be a legal process, not least because it violates the Ukrainian
:06:11. > :06:13.constitution and it was organised in such haste, there was no option on
:06:14. > :06:18.the ballot paper for those who wanted to vote for the status quo to
:06:19. > :06:23.vote for it. It wasn't an option. There is simile different ways
:06:24. > :06:29.beginning with the Russian military presence in which this referendum
:06:30. > :06:39.cannot be given legitimacy. . As a matter of fact, we faced some
:06:40. > :06:48.precedence during the new history of Europe when some events turned out
:06:49. > :06:51.to be legitimate in the understanding of Western countries
:06:52. > :06:57.and the others were illegitimate despite being the same by nature.
:06:58. > :07:06.So, this is a striking example are facing now, we're speaking about the
:07:07. > :07:09.constitution but intentionally or unintentionally we are forgetting
:07:10. > :07:16.the circumstances under which the present government came to power. I
:07:17. > :07:20.understand the point you are making and I know many Russian officials
:07:21. > :07:26.have pointed to Kosovo as an example. I don't want to get too
:07:27. > :07:32.hung up on the legal differences as perceived by many legal scholars
:07:33. > :07:41.between Crimea and Kosovo. This is the basic problem. One legal point,
:07:42. > :07:48.does Russia not feel bound by the treaties it signed beginning in
:07:49. > :07:56.1991, 1992 through 21997 with Ukraine where Russia time it signed
:07:57. > :08:00.a deal with Ukraine recognised Ukraine's territorial integrity,
:08:01. > :08:07.including Cairo `` Crimea. Definitely. Russia takes to its
:08:08. > :08:13.international obligations and Russia is a responsible member of the
:08:14. > :08:23.international community. But we see a different picture. First of all,
:08:24. > :08:28.there was a legal coming to power of certain people and throwing of the
:08:29. > :08:36.legal president backed by extremist groups and there was a danger, a
:08:37. > :08:42.danger of what sometimes lethal activities of those extremists
:08:43. > :08:45.throughout the country, especially eastwards and in the direction of
:08:46. > :08:50.Crimea. There was a danger for people, for Russians, Ukrainians and
:08:51. > :08:56.others living on the territory of Crimea and those people preferred to
:08:57. > :09:03.use their right of self`determination. This is the
:09:04. > :09:09.right that can be used under the Charter of the United Nations. So,
:09:10. > :09:16.to be clear... I want to be clear, when you talk about the situation in
:09:17. > :09:23.Ukraine and in Crimea, it seems you are reviving the allegations of
:09:24. > :09:29.hordes of neo`Nazis, fascists and anti`Semites on the rampage
:09:30. > :09:33.threatening the lives and security of the Russian ethnic population and
:09:34. > :09:39.Russian speakers. I have heard that many many times over the last two
:09:40. > :09:44.weeks, I have seen absolutely no evidence to support it.
:09:45. > :09:53.Well, as a matter of fact, I heard it also and but... In comparison
:09:54. > :09:57.with you, I have heard it from eyewitnesses. It is a great
:09:58. > :10:05.difference when you hear it from the media or when you hear it from
:10:06. > :10:13.eyewitnesses. Unfortunately, there is a huge information war going on.
:10:14. > :10:20.You can say that again! For example, the information war, the Russian
:10:21. > :10:24.media is state dominated and reporting that thousands, tens of
:10:25. > :10:27.thousands of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers were forced to flee
:10:28. > :10:32.from their homes and many were crossing the border into Russia.
:10:33. > :10:38.From independent reports on the border, both sides, that simply
:10:39. > :10:42.wasn't true. John Kerry said there have been constant lies and
:10:43. > :10:48.distortions. I would rather disagree with Mr
:10:49. > :10:56.Kerry. We had a significant increase of those people passing the border
:10:57. > :10:59.is trying to settle down on Russian territory. People are trying to
:11:00. > :11:05.escape the danger of those extremists coming from the western
:11:06. > :11:12.regions of Ukraine. Well, clearly a total complete
:11:13. > :11:17.difference of opinion about what is happening on the ground in Crimea
:11:18. > :11:21.and eastern Ukraine but what we have right now is a situation that seems
:11:22. > :11:27.desperately dangerous and unresolved. Let's talk about the
:11:28. > :11:32.situation of Ukraine military personnel who are still in Crimea
:11:33. > :11:36.which is in the process of being embraced inside the Russian
:11:37. > :11:44.federation. What will happen to those people, we have reports now as
:11:45. > :11:47.we speak of gunfire and incursions and Ukrainian military personnel
:11:48. > :11:54.being captured and abducted by Russian forces in the capital. What
:11:55. > :11:58.will happen to those military personnel?
:11:59. > :12:02.President Putin has mentioned in his address them more than 20,000
:12:03. > :12:11.military personnel of the Ukrainian army are based in Crimea, some of
:12:12. > :12:15.them passed to the Crimean side and will be a part of the Russian
:12:16. > :12:26.Federation and some of them are still locked in their regiments,
:12:27. > :12:33.some of them are service men in self defence regiments, some are staying
:12:34. > :12:39.inside waiting for their orders. They cannot understand right now
:12:40. > :12:45.what is the motherland. They will have to take a decision, some of
:12:46. > :12:51.them will join the Crimean army and the Russian army, those who do not
:12:52. > :13:01.want to do that definitely will be freed to leave the peninsular. The
:13:02. > :13:07.Prime Minister of Ukraine has said, this conflict is moving from the
:13:08. > :13:12.political to the military stage. Ukrainian media reports suggest one
:13:13. > :13:21.Ukrainian soldier has been killed in Simferopol. This is a very dangerous
:13:22. > :13:25.situation. We have no doubt that unfortunately we will have to face
:13:26. > :13:30.provocations and we have a reason to say so because we have information
:13:31. > :13:35.about provocation is being prepared in order to provoke clashes and
:13:36. > :13:43.gunfire. The Crimean 's are doing their best... Your troops are laying
:13:44. > :13:53.siege and surrounding military units in Crimea and you are accusing them
:13:54. > :13:57.of provocation? There were some infiltrations by provocateurs
:13:58. > :14:01.equipped by guns and equipped by explosives. But your troops
:14:02. > :14:08.controlled the ground in Crimea and the borders between Russia and the
:14:09. > :14:14.rest of Ukraine. It is not all Russian forces. There are Russian
:14:15. > :14:20.forces securing the Russian naval base. From now on I do not know,
:14:21. > :14:26.starting from today Crimea has joined the Russian Federation and
:14:27. > :14:31.now the situation is different there. That is your view, but it is
:14:32. > :14:36.not the view of the Ukrainian Government that says it will not
:14:37. > :14:40.cede an inch of territory from the homeland including Crimea. It looks
:14:41. > :14:45.as though the stand`off is going to intensify. Let me fix focus to
:14:46. > :14:49.eastern Ukraine as well. Vladimir Putin tells the world he has no
:14:50. > :14:55.desire to see Ukraine divided that he also says he will continue to
:14:56. > :15:02.protect the lives, the security of Russians living in Ukraine by all
:15:03. > :15:08.means. He is simply intimidating the Ukrainian Government, is he not?
:15:09. > :15:15.Well, first of all, we do expect some measures from those people who
:15:16. > :15:21.are calling themselves the Ukrainian Government. We do expect the Western
:15:22. > :15:26.community backing those people to take effective measures in order to
:15:27. > :15:29.protect those people living in the eastern regions of Ukraine. At the
:15:30. > :15:39.same time we are receiving reports about clashes in an eastern city of
:15:40. > :15:47.Ukraine, so there are clashes and sounds of gunfire. Also some reports
:15:48. > :15:52.about one or two people being wounded. Those clashes between
:15:53. > :15:59.military gun men and fighters, extremists, coming from western
:16:00. > :16:04.regions. So we expect the Ukrainian Government to protect the Russian
:16:05. > :16:12.population, otherwise Russia simply cannot stay without reaction. We
:16:13. > :16:17.will have to react, we will have to protect Russians and also Ukrainians
:16:18. > :16:22.living there. Let me pick up on that point. We have heard from the United
:16:23. > :16:26.States, the German and British governments saying it would be the
:16:27. > :16:31.gravest of mistakes for you in Russia to push your forces into
:16:32. > :16:35.eastern Ukraine to intervene militarily. Can you guarantee me
:16:36. > :16:45.here and now that Russia will not do that? No one is speaking about using
:16:46. > :16:51.forces eastwards, or about using forces in the eastern regions. It is
:16:52. > :16:57.not on the agenda, it is out of the question, but we do not want to make
:16:58. > :17:05.any forecasts for bloodshed that can occur in the eastern regions. If the
:17:06. > :17:12.Ukrainian Government pays no attention to the gravest situation
:17:13. > :17:18.in the eastern regions, then the consequences may be very, very bad.
:17:19. > :17:23.You are giving me mixed messages. On the one hand you are saying if our
:17:24. > :17:27.Russian people are not protected, we will react. On the other hand you
:17:28. > :17:32.have said military intervention in the eastern Ukraine is out of the
:17:33. > :17:38.question, in your words. Which is it? Definitely we are not speaking
:17:39. > :17:43.about military actions in the eastern region of Ukraine, but
:17:44. > :17:51.Russia will do whatever is possible, using all legal means, in total
:17:52. > :17:56.correspondence with international law, to protect and to extend a hand
:17:57. > :18:04.of help to Russians living in the eastern regions of Ukraine. Do you
:18:05. > :18:12.believe Russia has the right to veto certain moves potentially made by
:18:13. > :18:16.the Ukrainian Government? On Friday for examples Ukrainian Government is
:18:17. > :18:20.expected to sign the political element of an association deal with
:18:21. > :18:25.the European Union. Do you believe Russia has the right to insist that
:18:26. > :18:30.does not happen? We do not have the right to veto the signing of a
:18:31. > :18:36.political part of a cessation agreement between the European Union
:18:37. > :18:45.and an illegitimate Government of Ukraine. Thus we simply cannot use
:18:46. > :18:50.that veto right. We can be only very sorry for that, that the EU
:18:51. > :18:57.countries signed an agreement with an illegitimate Government. It is as
:18:58. > :19:09.a result of a takeover. You refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of a
:19:10. > :19:15.Government. Does Russia have a right to insist that Ukraine does not
:19:16. > :19:24.become a member of the EU? Do you believe that is a legitimate Russian
:19:25. > :19:35.right? First of all, we never tried to create an obstacle in the way of
:19:36. > :19:40.Ukraine is getting closer to the EU. To the contrary Vladimir Putin
:19:41. > :19:44.emphasised numerous times that this will be a sovereign choice of the
:19:45. > :19:56.Ukrainian people whether to be closer to the EU, or to be closer to
:19:57. > :20:02.the United economic area of free countries like Russia and
:20:03. > :20:05.Kazakhstan. That is the sole decision of the Ukrainian people and
:20:06. > :20:11.it is a sovereign headache for the EU. I do not want to end without
:20:12. > :20:17.addressing Russia's relationship with the EU and the West. Would you
:20:18. > :20:21.accept that what we are going to see over the next few days, weeks and
:20:22. > :20:28.months is the increasing isolation of Russia from the West and from
:20:29. > :20:38.many international organisations? We do hope that the circumstances are
:20:39. > :20:42.not developing that way. We have already seen the first tranche of
:20:43. > :20:48.punitive measures against your country. We have seen the Americans
:20:49. > :20:54.list 11 individuals for travel bans and asset freezes, the EU 21, and we
:20:55. > :21:00.know, given the annexation of Crimea, we know the measures are
:21:01. > :21:04.going to go further. Definitely we cannot accept these measures and we
:21:05. > :21:11.think they are intolerable and unacceptable for Russia. So we want
:21:12. > :21:16.to be close allies to the European Union, we want to be in a good
:21:17. > :21:22.relationship with the United States, especially with European union
:21:23. > :21:28.countries because the EU is a basic trade and an economic investment
:21:29. > :21:36.partner of the Russian Federation. So our mutual interdependence,
:21:37. > :21:42.economically, really dictates that we have to be in a good
:21:43. > :21:45.relationship. When you talk about mutual interdependence you supply it
:21:46. > :21:53.is a relationship of equals, but it is not. We have a former adviser to
:21:54. > :21:58.the Kremlin saying Russia's dependence on trade with the West is
:21:59. > :22:05.much greater than vice versa. Very soon your economy is going to face a
:22:06. > :22:12.real crunch, isn't it? First of all, we have heard nothing up to this
:22:13. > :22:19.moment about economic sanctions. So, facing economic sanctions from one
:22:20. > :22:24.side every country is free to concentrate on economic corporation
:22:25. > :22:31.with the other side of the world. Today's world is not polar. The EU
:22:32. > :22:38.is not the only area of growth on the earth. So there are different
:22:39. > :22:43.point of growth, there are different countries that are interested in
:22:44. > :22:48.cooperation with Russia. From our side we will continue to offer our
:22:49. > :22:54.cooperation with the European Union countries. We are deeply interested
:22:55. > :22:59.in that. You can make an offer, but it will not be accepted. The French
:23:00. > :23:04.Foreign Minister said the G8 is going to become the G7. You can
:23:05. > :23:13.forget about being in it. Do you care? It is not only our problem.
:23:14. > :23:19.You can call it the G five, the G six, it does not matter. But if you
:23:20. > :23:26.discuss global processes without the participation of Russia it will be a
:23:27. > :23:30.handicapped discussion. Does it ever strike you that the real fear that
:23:31. > :23:34.Russia has of what has happened in Ukraine is a fear Russians might
:23:35. > :23:38.learn from the Ukrainian revolution, they might see people
:23:39. > :23:42.challenging a corrupt or authoritarian regime and some in
:23:43. > :23:47.Russia might believe they could follow that model inside your own
:23:48. > :23:53.country? We have some statistics about the moods of Russians living
:23:54. > :23:59.in eastern regions of Ukraine. They do not treat it as a revolution,
:24:00. > :24:04.they treat it as a takeover. You can only be fed up with the consequences
:24:05. > :24:11.of a takeover in Ukraine and with the grave situation in the economy,
:24:12. > :24:17.the country is on the brink of collapse, the Social Security
:24:18. > :24:23.consequences, so it is not an example of revolution. In this sense
:24:24. > :24:27.it is not a question. We are not going to get any more questions or
:24:28. > :24:31.answers. Dmitri Pasco, thank you very much for joining me. Thank
:24:32. > :24:56.you, it was my pleasure to be here. Good evening. The end of the week
:24:57. > :25:01.will bring quite a change in the weather across the whole of the
:25:02. > :25:06.country. Still some fairly decent temperatures over the next couple of
:25:07. > :25:11.days. Overnight tonight it will stay mild and frost free because we have
:25:12. > :25:14.got a significant breeze. Rain in the North West