:00:07. > :00:09.Welcome to HARDtalk with me, Zeinab Badawi.
:00:10. > :00:12.The award-winning film star Viggo Mortensen is here in London
:00:13. > :00:16.for the release of his new film, the Two Faces of January.
:00:17. > :00:18.He is not your average Hollywood leading man.
:00:19. > :00:22.He is fluent in four languages, was raised in three continents and is of
:00:23. > :00:30.So what does he say to critics who argue that the American movie
:00:31. > :00:51.industry has contributed to the Hollywoodisation of global culture?
:00:52. > :00:53.Viggo Mortensen, welcome to HARDtalk.
:00:54. > :00:55.Thank you. It's nice to be here.
:00:56. > :00:59.You've been pretty well known now for lots of fans as Aragorn in Lord
:01:00. > :01:02.of the Rings, but you were a bit ambivalent about
:01:03. > :01:14.It was sort of a last-minute decision.
:01:15. > :01:17.I had to travel the next day or two days later
:01:18. > :01:22.The other actors had been there for quite a while rehearsing.
:01:23. > :01:28.It didn't seem like a practical thing.
:01:29. > :01:30.I thought that they should find someone else who was
:01:31. > :01:34.It was your son who said to you, please.
:01:35. > :01:41.I was on the phone saying, I don't think I'm the man for the job.
:01:42. > :01:46.And he said, what are you talking about?
:01:47. > :01:54.And he said it was a very good idea, you should do this.
:01:55. > :02:01.I might have decided to anyway, because it was an intriguing offer,
:02:02. > :02:12.But since the Lord of the Rings, you have steered clear of the big
:02:13. > :02:17.Hollywood blockbusters in favour of more gritty roles like History
:02:18. > :02:23.Are you more comfortable in such movies?
:02:24. > :02:26.I'm not really conscious of choosing big budget studio movies over
:02:27. > :02:40.I felt that, as big an enterprise as it turned out to be, the Lord of
:02:41. > :02:47.And as an actor, once you're there working on a set with a crew,
:02:48. > :02:51.it doesn't matter if it's a crew of hundreds or a crew of nine.
:02:52. > :03:03.Your relationship with the camera is the same.
:03:04. > :03:11.You won the best actor Oscar nomination for your role in
:03:12. > :03:15.Eastern Promises, which excited legions of female fans
:03:16. > :03:22.because of the nude scene fighting that you had in a sauna, I think.
:03:23. > :03:27.Is sex appeal an important part of your success?
:03:28. > :03:31.I will leave that to others to decide.
:03:32. > :03:34.There has to be some sort of attraction, I suppose.
:03:35. > :03:37.Not always, but a certain kind of connection, anyway, that
:03:38. > :03:40.the audience feels with the people on screen, I understand that.
:03:41. > :03:47.I understand that movies are often sold to some degree or another
:03:48. > :03:58.I'm probably not the right person to ask.
:03:59. > :04:02.The role on the movie that is coming out now, the Two Faces of January,
:04:03. > :04:07.is a man who seems very elegant, very put together, and then he
:04:08. > :04:12.rapidly starts behaving in ways that are embarrassing to watch.
:04:13. > :04:17.I'm not afraid of going to wherever the character asks me
:04:18. > :04:19.and the director to go, which is sometimes unattractive, physically
:04:20. > :04:28.I will ask you about your movie, two Faces of January, in a moment.
:04:29. > :04:31.But just picking up this thing about sex appeal.
:04:32. > :04:34.We often think that the pressure, or at least women are required to
:04:35. > :04:37.perhaps take part sometimes in nude scenes as part
:04:38. > :04:40.of a movie's appeal, but for good-looking men, is that also
:04:41. > :04:47.I've never noticed it being the case.
:04:48. > :04:50.The movie you are referring to, Eastern Promises, there was a scene
:04:51. > :04:56.written where I am attacked by two men with knives and a bathhouse.
:04:57. > :04:59.In a bathhouse you don't normally wear a suit and tie. So it seemed
:05:00. > :05:10.I didn't really think about it that much, and it worked.
:05:11. > :05:24.Your latest film, but two Faces of January, based on the novel
:05:25. > :05:27.by Patricia Highsmith, you star opposite Kirsten Dunst, and it is a
:05:28. > :05:30.director or debut for the acclaimed screenplay writer Hossein Amini.
:05:31. > :05:34.Was that a bit of a risk, perhaps, taking part in a film where you
:05:35. > :05:42.You know, looking back, I have worked with quite
:05:43. > :05:45.a few first-time directors, men and women, and there is always
:05:46. > :05:49.something that is exciting about it, because it is their first try.
:05:50. > :05:53.There is something very pure about the connection
:05:54. > :05:56.between their intentions and their dreams of what it would be
:05:57. > :06:02.like to tell a particular story, and the way they go about it.
:06:03. > :06:06.On the other hand, especially if it is a writer/director,
:06:07. > :06:09.in this case Hoss had written the play and was also directing it,
:06:10. > :06:13.they can be very defensive about making any changes to the script or
:06:14. > :06:24.One of the reasons that the movie doesn't at all look
:06:25. > :06:29.like a first-time director's job, it is very subtle, very poised, a very
:06:30. > :06:37.intelligent because Hoss himself would be on the set and would say,
:06:38. > :06:42.it is well-written, it works, but seeing guys reverse it, I think that
:06:43. > :06:57.So he was very humble about it as a writer, which was also intelligent.
:06:58. > :07:01.It is set in the early 1960s, and it starts off with you and your wife,
:07:02. > :07:04.played by Kirsten Dunst, looking at the archaeological sites in Greece.
:07:05. > :07:09.Has it turned out to be a good movie?
:07:10. > :07:16.It is one of those movies that you sometimes see later night on TV on a
:07:17. > :07:19.film retrospective, a thriller, film nor are tight movie from the 50s or
:07:20. > :07:30.the early 60s that are beautiful, and you look at the people and the
:07:31. > :07:33.way they are dressed, and the cleverness of the dialogue,
:07:34. > :07:36.and the locations, and you think, it would be nice to be there.
:07:37. > :07:40.But I also have to say that even reading the script,
:07:41. > :07:43.in terms of the historical moment, I thought it was really
:07:44. > :07:58.interesting, too, because 1962, you see the Gatsby-esque cover...
:07:59. > :08:19.He plays the part of the local Greek guide.
:08:20. > :08:23.He speaks Greek fluently, and it turns out he is American, he is very
:08:24. > :08:28.And he is also as it turns out a bit of a con man himself.
:08:29. > :08:30.Typical Highsmith characters, very tricky.
:08:31. > :08:33.But what historically I liked is that in 1962, Americans travel in
:08:34. > :08:36.Europe, there were still a certain amount of goodwill towards them.
:08:37. > :08:38.There was that post-World War II glow.
:08:39. > :08:42.They were forgiven, even if they were considered to be
:08:43. > :08:47.They were sort of still considered sort of the good guys.
:08:48. > :08:49.Because you are half Danish, half American.
:08:50. > :08:51.Your father is Danish, your mother is American.
:08:52. > :08:57.Do you see that now with Americans being unpopular with Europeans?
:08:58. > :09:00.Yes, I think Americans, unless they are completely blinkered,
:09:01. > :09:04.realise that things are not the same, if they think about it.
:09:05. > :09:07.I am talking about Americans, not younger people, because they
:09:08. > :09:19.may believe aren't aware of that historical change, but anybody who
:09:20. > :09:23.is older than 30, 35, I don't know, probably has some awareness of how
:09:24. > :09:27.different things are now in terms of their is still a fair amount
:09:28. > :09:31.different things are now in terms of there is still a fair amount
:09:32. > :09:34.of goodwill, but it is nothing like it used to be, and fair enough.
:09:35. > :09:37.In conservative circles in the United States, you still have
:09:38. > :09:41.politicians and commentaries talking about essentially that Americans are
:09:42. > :09:48.the chosen people, or American exceptionalism, and that was
:09:49. > :09:52.something that was not only Americans felt after World War II
:09:53. > :09:55.and into the early 60s, but other people thought that about Americans,
:09:56. > :10:03.Where do you think that comes from, though?
:10:04. > :10:05.Would you describe it as an animosity between the Americans
:10:06. > :10:10.I think it comes from being an empire.
:10:11. > :10:14.The British did the same thing, the Spanish to the same thing,
:10:15. > :10:17.The British did the same thing, the Spanish did the same thing,
:10:18. > :10:26.It is a thing that any country that has that much power, they tend to
:10:27. > :10:28.think that they are unique and better than other countries.
:10:29. > :10:37.Yes, because you are half Danish, half American?
:10:38. > :10:42.No. I like flags, the flag of my favourite football
:10:43. > :10:50.Even on a movie shoot, I tend to have a flag of my favourite hockey
:10:51. > :10:56.team, football team, the Danish flag, the British flag.
:10:57. > :11:07.But I do think that in general, nationalism is a useless thing,
:11:08. > :11:14.a vile, destructive thing, and it doesn't help.
:11:15. > :11:20.I feel a certain amount of concern, let's say, if we go back to
:11:21. > :11:24.the years when the problems that arose as a result of the cartoons
:11:25. > :11:30.of the Danish newspapers, depicting the Prophet Muhammad.
:11:31. > :11:34.I am all for freedom of expression, but it was something that on a
:11:35. > :11:37.practical level, I was like, having a Danish passport is not a free pass
:11:38. > :11:46.It is probably as dangerous to have one as it is to have an American one
:11:47. > :11:55.Little things like that can change the fate of nations, you know?
:11:56. > :11:59.Looking at the movie that has just come out, the two Faces of January,
:12:00. > :12:04.you said you were happy with it, but I have to put it to you that some
:12:05. > :12:08.Indie Wire described it as a complete disappointment.
:12:09. > :12:10.Scotland on Sunday newspaper said the characters are too steeped
:12:11. > :12:14.in quality to offer visceral thrills or sensual pleasures.
:12:15. > :12:16.Just generally speaking, is it upsetting for an actor
:12:17. > :12:29.like you to get a review that is ambivalent like that?
:12:30. > :12:32.I will point out for the benefit of the audience members that
:12:33. > :12:35.by far the vast majority of reviews we got have been outstanding.
:12:36. > :12:38.I understand, just so you are clear, the point seems to be,
:12:39. > :12:44.Not to paint the movie as getting bad reviews, because
:12:45. > :12:52.I would rather they give only good reviews
:12:53. > :12:57.But I don't think any movie, no matter how well it is,
:12:58. > :13:09.ever gets across the board 100% excellent reviews.
:13:10. > :13:16.But you have been associated with a lot of films
:13:17. > :13:20.which might be described as Indy, more arty, ?90% of the time I'll
:13:21. > :13:23.end up in low-budget movies that are difficult to finance and often
:13:24. > :13:32.There's a good movie for you, something which isn't necessarily
:13:33. > :13:36.going to be commercially successful, make lots of money?
:13:37. > :13:39.No, there are big movies that are really well made.
:13:40. > :13:45.But the more money that?s involved in a
:13:46. > :13:50.movie, the less that the film-makers , the producers and financiers are
:13:51. > :13:54.going to want to stray away from something that's tried and true
:13:55. > :14:03.So, it's unusual to see a truly original movie that's expensive.
:14:04. > :14:06.That doesn't mean all independent movies are better.
:14:07. > :14:10.I think the same is true for independents, there are some
:14:11. > :14:17.Every year most of the scripts I read and most
:14:18. > :14:21.of the movies that have been made since the start of movies have been
:14:22. > :14:26.Do you feel under pressure to take up roles that people judge in
:14:27. > :14:29.the industry, judge will have huge commercial success and make money?
:14:30. > :14:33.No maybe if I was cleverer about my career at a business level
:14:34. > :14:38., I might try to find a way to do bigger budget movies.
:14:39. > :14:42.But honestly, I don't really have a plan to shy
:14:43. > :14:46.away from any kind of movie, neither genre or size of budget.
:14:47. > :14:49.If you?d asked me two years ago would I have done a movie
:14:50. > :14:54.which we were speaking about before, where I speak French and Arabic.
:14:55. > :14:58.I wouldn't have expected that I would have been interested
:14:59. > :15:03.in doing it necessarily, or that anybody would want me to do it.
:15:04. > :15:09.But things happen and it happens to be a great story.
:15:10. > :15:17.And The Two Faces of January, when I read the script.
:15:18. > :15:20.It was a really fine script and as I was saying before, this could be one
:15:21. > :15:26.of those classic thriller movies, but it's going to be difficult.
:15:27. > :15:33.Especially with a first-time director to get it
:15:34. > :15:36.financed and when I said yes to him, it wasn't overnight, it took three
:15:37. > :15:40.years before we were shooting, to get the money together.
:15:41. > :15:43.I put these questions to you because you are quoted as saying, "sometimes
:15:44. > :15:47.I look at a movie and I can see that the actor or actress said,
:15:48. > :15:52.I'm taking this on board because I'm making a tonne of money and not
:15:53. > :16:03.because it's going to be something special.? it sounds as
:16:04. > :16:07.it's not a criticism to say that, it is a business choice you make.
:16:08. > :16:10.If I was broke and had to pay for, I don't know , an expensive operation
:16:11. > :16:16.in a hospital for myself or someone in my family and there was no other
:16:17. > :16:28.way, I would take the first thing I could get that paid the most.
:16:29. > :16:39.The money is important to you, isn't it? No, as long as I can afford to
:16:40. > :16:45.wait and live a bit more carefully and economically for a story that I
:16:46. > :16:51.really love and think it is a challenge, I will wait. But you have
:16:52. > :16:55.made a lot of money. You have founded Perceval press in Los
:16:56. > :17:02.Angeles which specialises in art books and poetry, you could not have
:17:03. > :17:10.done that if you have not had the money from Lord Of The Rings. And
:17:11. > :17:15.also, even if I had not done the three movies with David Cronenberg,
:17:16. > :17:20.I wouldn't have had a producer who would say, we will let you do it.
:17:21. > :17:27.Would you reconsider the comment you made about some people just doing it
:17:28. > :17:38.for the money? Reconsider in what sense? That it's OK if money is a
:17:39. > :17:42.motivator? No, I said it is not a criticism, it is a business choice.
:17:43. > :17:46.I am not saying it is neither positive nor negative. I can see
:17:47. > :17:54.what they did. It is not what I am inclined to do. But if I needed to
:17:55. > :17:57.do it, I wouldn't have a problem doing it. My basic approach is,
:17:58. > :18:03.let's say I have a choice and there is two movies, I want to do the
:18:04. > :18:13.movie I want to see now, a year from now, 20 years from now. Do you feel
:18:14. > :18:16.that you would like to make a movie which is because you are political,
:18:17. > :18:24.about a political issue? We have just seen Tom Hanks star in Captain
:18:25. > :18:28.Phillips and Matt Damon has just made a film about fracking. Is that
:18:29. > :18:34.something you would consider? I think the best movies in a sense are
:18:35. > :18:37.stories that are thought-provoking, that get people to think differently
:18:38. > :18:47.about their empire and political system. All the way things are going
:18:48. > :18:51.in the world. For example, the movie are referred to in which I speak
:18:52. > :18:57.French and Arabic is a movie in which I play a professor in Algeria
:18:58. > :19:02.who is born there. He is of Spanish descent, grew up speaking French and
:19:03. > :19:08.Arabic. It is 1954, the war of independence of Algeria is just
:19:09. > :19:12.starting. He has a prisoner who is interesting to him who is an Arab
:19:13. > :19:15.and it is a story about these two men. It sounds in principle like it
:19:16. > :19:25.is going to be yet another very political, ideological on why sat at
:19:26. > :19:28.-- on one side or another. A movie about the Algerian war. It is
:19:29. > :19:34.completely not ideological. It is a beautiful story between these two
:19:35. > :19:41.men. But it makes you think about the situation, from point point of
:19:42. > :19:43.view. Those are the stories, I don't like overtly ideological movies. I
:19:44. > :19:50.find them boring and not useful politically. Because you are only
:19:51. > :20:04.convincing the people who are already agreeing with you. What do
:20:05. > :20:08.you say to Europeans who feel that Hollywood arts if I can use that
:20:09. > :20:12.word, of global culture works against diversity in the arts? I
:20:13. > :20:26.will give you this quote from the president of the Polish film Academy
:20:27. > :20:30.producer, " the Americans wanted to do away with the European protection
:20:31. > :20:33.system. Polish language cinema is part of our national identity and
:20:34. > :20:42.culture and not a commercial commodity". It is a complex issue.
:20:43. > :20:50.In the end people will make the movies they want to make anyway. You
:20:51. > :20:55.stop them. For example, France is a country that traditionally supports
:20:56. > :21:00.the film business. People that argue against state sponsoring of funding
:21:01. > :21:03.of movie-makers and film productions so you get a uniformity, it is a
:21:04. > :21:08.certain kind of movie. Whether it is the kitchen sink, working-class
:21:09. > :21:14.drama that becomes a lack of variety. But you could certainly say
:21:15. > :21:22.that about Hollywood and the lack of variety there as well. I think that
:21:23. > :21:23.what ever deficit you have in terms of bureaucratic nature of
:21:24. > :21:28.film-making, to some degree that happens when the government support
:21:29. > :21:34.movie making. It is far outweighed by the benefits that is the culture
:21:35. > :21:37.of movie-making from your country, in your language. Spain used to have
:21:38. > :21:44.something, not quite on the level of France, but until several years ago
:21:45. > :21:48.when the current government came in, the more conservative governments,
:21:49. > :21:56.they completely wiped it out. There is practically no support for the
:21:57. > :22:01.film business in Spain. When the French Minister of culture said last
:22:02. > :22:06.year about wanting to keep French subsidies for film-making, he said
:22:07. > :22:09.they don't want Hollywood supremacy. But the fact of the matter is the
:22:10. > :22:17.market share of most films in Europe has gone up from 63 to 69%, the
:22:18. > :22:23.highest market share in the past ten years. Is that something you regret?
:22:24. > :22:28.No, if you make a good story, it will eventually be seen. The problem
:22:29. > :22:34.is, as far as making money right off the bat in the movie theatres, it is
:22:35. > :22:38.hard to get those movie theatres. It is easier to say Americans and the
:22:39. > :22:43.American business, but who is that making money in France or in Spain
:22:44. > :22:47.or in England by showing these big American movies? It is the local
:22:48. > :22:54.distributors. It is the people in the country. Americans don't control
:22:55. > :23:01.everything in your country. No, but this is more than just about market
:23:02. > :23:08.share, it is about culture. The Danish has said American studios
:23:09. > :23:15.give money to directors to educate them from their creative
:23:16. > :23:26.fingerprint. He has avoided that fate by making movies in Denmark. He
:23:27. > :23:30.said you have to fight the urge to do a big action movie. You avoid
:23:31. > :23:37.Batman, the bigger it is the worst it is. There are all kinds of movies
:23:38. > :23:39.made in North America and the United States every year. Most of them are
:23:40. > :23:41.not big studio movies. So he's wrong, is he? No, he is not wrong.
:23:42. > :23:46.Most of them are not big budget movies and to say a sweeping
:23:47. > :23:50.statement about American directors being easily brainwashed does a
:23:51. > :23:54.disservice to them. You are into political issues, would you follow
:23:55. > :24:02.the path of actors who have gone into politics? Not interested. There
:24:03. > :24:11.is other ways to make a point, I think. Viggo Mortensen, thanks for
:24:12. > :24:17.coming on HARDtalk.