0:00:09 > 0:00:11Welcome to HARDtalk. I?m Stephen Sackur.
0:00:11 > 0:00:13Today I?m in London's west end gallery district.
0:00:13 > 0:00:15My guest is one of the most successful fashion
0:00:15 > 0:00:22and celebrity photographers of the last 30 years, David LaChapelle.
0:00:22 > 0:00:24At the height of his commercial success, he walked away from
0:00:24 > 0:00:27the world of glamour to become a dedicated visual artist, producing
0:00:27 > 0:00:34works like the ones you see here.
0:00:34 > 0:00:37He's still provocative, he can still shock, but now,
0:00:37 > 0:00:42does his work go deeper?
0:00:57 > 0:00:59David LaChapelle, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:00:59 > 0:01:01Thank you.
0:01:01 > 0:01:03Here we are in London.
0:01:03 > 0:01:05An exhibition of some of your recent work.
0:01:05 > 0:01:09And there is not an A-list celebrity in sight.
0:01:09 > 0:01:12There isn't any human flesh in sight.
0:01:12 > 0:01:18Does this work suggest that you have fundamentally changed?
0:01:18 > 0:01:23Well, I mean, I think as you get older you have
0:01:23 > 0:01:25different chapters in your life.
0:01:25 > 0:01:30You do change, hopefully, you grow, hopefully.
0:01:30 > 0:01:36And your interests change.
0:01:36 > 0:01:40I still love the things I did at that time.
0:01:40 > 0:01:44Shooting celebrities and stuff was great.
0:01:44 > 0:01:49People say, ?Oh, you burned out and quit?.
0:01:49 > 0:01:53Actually, it was kind of more of an end of a love affair.
0:01:53 > 0:01:57I was really in love with what I was doing, shooting celebrities.
0:01:57 > 0:02:01It?s like...
0:02:01 > 0:02:06That was a 20 year stint, a 20 year love affair.
0:02:06 > 0:02:07But you are talking in the past tense.
0:02:07 > 0:02:09It is a love affair that ended?
0:02:09 > 0:02:10It did end.
0:02:10 > 0:02:15I woke up and said, this has got to go.
0:02:15 > 0:02:18It was great.
0:02:18 > 0:02:20We had a great time and I love you.
0:02:20 > 0:02:23But I have to check out now.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26I will take you back to those years, I promise you.
0:02:26 > 0:02:30But I want to stick right now with the work you have just done.
0:02:30 > 0:02:34It's fascinating, because, when you look closer at it, you realise that
0:02:34 > 0:02:37these panoramas, which appear to be industrial installations,
0:02:37 > 0:02:42oil refineries, or indeed the gas stations, they are actually made up
0:02:42 > 0:02:46of found objects, recycled objects, some of them as familiar
0:02:46 > 0:02:52as a drinking straw or a battery, or a can of Coke.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54Yes.
0:02:54 > 0:02:59Is the message here that you are revolted
0:02:59 > 0:03:02by our modern industrial society?
0:03:02 > 0:03:06No, I'm not revolted by it.
0:03:06 > 0:03:14I'm kind of in a bigger picture, and I don't want to get too existential,
0:03:14 > 0:03:21but I look at it like we were the children in the 60s that they were
0:03:21 > 0:03:23talking about when they started talking about overpopulation and
0:03:23 > 0:03:26pollution loudly for the first time.
0:03:26 > 0:03:30You know, there really was a movement about these issues.
0:03:30 > 0:03:35And we inherited this system.
0:03:35 > 0:03:37These are monuments to the industrial revolution,
0:03:37 > 0:03:42and the gas station...
0:03:42 > 0:03:45This one over here is a nuclear power plant.
0:03:45 > 0:03:48We inherited this infrastructure that allowed us to populate
0:03:48 > 0:03:57the planet.
0:03:57 > 0:03:59You know, it's neither good nor bad.
0:03:59 > 0:04:01It is just is, it happened, it is what it is.
0:04:01 > 0:04:06And here we are now, at this precipice, and we all know that
0:04:06 > 0:04:11change is upon us, great change is upon the planet, and that if you're
0:04:11 > 0:04:15a conscious person living today, we know that the climate is changing
0:04:15 > 0:04:22and that droughts are happening and that there are food riots already.
0:04:22 > 0:04:23And this is already happening.
0:04:23 > 0:04:27The ice caps are melting.
0:04:27 > 0:04:30The things that they talked about just ten years ago,
0:04:30 > 0:04:33five years ago, and earlier, are in full swing now, faster than they
0:04:33 > 0:04:38thought they were going to happen.
0:04:38 > 0:04:41Here's the thing, then, I wonder if there is, somewhere
0:04:41 > 0:04:45in this work, an element of guilt?
0:04:45 > 0:04:48Because for so long, and we're going to talk about it
0:04:48 > 0:04:51in a minute, for so long you were associated with a high-gloss,
0:04:51 > 0:04:53expensive world of celebrity, of high-end fashion, of glamour,
0:04:53 > 0:04:58and, frankly, of also a sort of superficial throwaway society.
0:04:58 > 0:05:03Do you feel guilty about that?
0:05:03 > 0:05:06No.
0:05:06 > 0:05:10It's funny you say that, because, you know, I took a plane here.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12And we're sitting...
0:05:12 > 0:05:17These pictures have a UV plexi protector on them, which is made
0:05:17 > 0:05:19from the industrial revolution.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22Everything here in this...
0:05:22 > 0:05:24To feel guilty, I mean, I was brought up Catholic, so guilt
0:05:24 > 0:05:27is part of my nature, you know?
0:05:27 > 0:05:32But, about my photographs, I was always...
0:05:32 > 0:05:35I look back and I started in galleries and working with
0:05:35 > 0:05:42celebrities, and I was always trying to sneak in my own narratives.
0:05:42 > 0:05:46And when you look at some of the pictures, some of them were
0:05:46 > 0:05:52purely escapist and purely just for fun, and to kind of forget reality.
0:05:52 > 0:05:57What told you that you were different from your peer group?
0:05:57 > 0:05:59You had a pretty ordinary upbringing.
0:05:59 > 0:06:01They told me. Who?
0:06:01 > 0:06:04They told me I was different. They let me know, loud and clear.
0:06:04 > 0:06:06You mean the kids at school?
0:06:06 > 0:06:08The kids at school let me know that I was different.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11I wanted to go to the birthday parties and stuff.
0:06:11 > 0:06:15I wanted to hang out, be part of the group, but I wasn't.
0:06:15 > 0:06:19I was excluded and bullied. Because...?
0:06:19 > 0:06:23Because I was different, you know, and I was gay.
0:06:23 > 0:06:28I knew I was gay when, I was having fantasies when I was a little kid.
0:06:28 > 0:06:33And I didn't know what that was.
0:06:33 > 0:06:36And then I asked my brother...
0:06:36 > 0:06:40I remember this very well, because I was five and he was ten,
0:06:40 > 0:06:41he's five years older.
0:06:41 > 0:06:44I said, ?When I grow up, can I marry a boy??
0:06:44 > 0:06:47And he said, ?No, that would make you a faggot.?
0:06:47 > 0:06:50He did it really nicely, my brother wasn?t a bully,
0:06:50 > 0:06:52but I knew that wasn?t a good word.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55Around junior high, about seventh grade, things got really hard.
0:06:55 > 0:06:57Eighth grade was impossible, and I dropped out of ninth great.
0:06:57 > 0:07:07Eighth grade, I couldn't go to the cafeteria,
0:07:07 > 0:07:10because milk cartons would come flying at me from every direction,
0:07:10 > 0:07:14I would be sitting by myself because nobody would sit with me.
0:07:14 > 0:07:17It was a big high school, 2,000 kids in Fairfield County,
0:07:17 > 0:07:18and I still have nightmares...
0:07:18 > 0:07:21Actually, the nightmares have ceased lately, I haven?t had them in years,
0:07:21 > 0:07:24but for a while I had nightmares about being back about school,
0:07:24 > 0:07:25and milk cartons kept flying at me.
0:07:25 > 0:07:28So I would go to the art rooms, and I would make art.
0:07:28 > 0:07:30And art and photography were your outlets.
0:07:30 > 0:07:33Before too long, as a late teenager, you had New York City.
0:07:33 > 0:07:35And you sort of found like-minded people.
0:07:35 > 0:07:38Yes. Yes, they found me, it was Mecca.
0:07:38 > 0:07:42It was paradise.
0:07:42 > 0:07:47Coming from a place where everyone hated you for all kinds of reasons,
0:07:47 > 0:07:50to then going to a place where people liked you for the same
0:07:50 > 0:07:53reasons, and they, wow, you know...
0:07:53 > 0:07:56You were dressing a certain way, or whatever.
0:07:56 > 0:07:58You want to express yourself in your clothing, you know?
0:07:58 > 0:08:00And your sexuality.
0:08:00 > 0:08:01I'm going to be blunt with you.
0:08:01 > 0:08:02Go ahead.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05I'm going to ask you about how sexuality played into this
0:08:05 > 0:08:11finding of yourself, and finding your artistic voice, as well.
0:08:11 > 0:08:15Because you were a young gay man in New York, you have said that, for a
0:08:15 > 0:08:18while, you even sold sexual favours in New York City to make ends meet
0:08:18 > 0:08:22while you pursued your art.
0:08:22 > 0:08:32Was sexuality always intrinsically wrapped up with your artistic voice?
0:08:32 > 0:08:34That I can't say.
0:08:34 > 0:08:36I don't think that...
0:08:36 > 0:08:38I think that as much as anyone else's, I wasn't more...
0:08:38 > 0:08:43Maybe I was a little bit more sexually active than other people,
0:08:43 > 0:08:45but yet, I never...
0:08:45 > 0:08:49My little friends when I was 15, I say little now, but we thought we
0:08:49 > 0:08:52were so cool and adult, 15 years old in New York City.
0:08:52 > 0:08:57And I'd wait outside the bath houses for them.
0:08:57 > 0:08:59I hated the bath houses, I wouldn't go inside.
0:08:59 > 0:09:01I thought it was like hell inside there, honestly,
0:09:01 > 0:09:04because it was just dark and nasty, so I would wait outside,
0:09:04 > 0:09:11and wait for my other 15-year-old friends, 16, whatever, to come out.
0:09:11 > 0:09:15And, you know, they'd come in and tell me whatever
0:09:15 > 0:09:19they did and stuff, and it was all funny, I guess, to them at the time,
0:09:19 > 0:09:20and to me, as well.
0:09:20 > 0:09:21But it just wasn't my thing.
0:09:21 > 0:09:25And...
0:09:25 > 0:09:49I did, I did what you said I did, yeah.
0:09:49 > 0:09:53I couldn't hold down a job very well, I had a hard time being
0:09:53 > 0:09:53employed.
0:09:53 > 0:09:54What do you call it here?
0:09:54 > 0:09:58I guess in England it?s called a rent boy, but for a few seasons,
0:09:58 > 0:09:59I guess, I was...
0:09:59 > 0:10:02It was a way to make money, and I guess it was also part
0:10:02 > 0:10:04of the process of finding yourself.
0:10:04 > 0:10:07It was different as well, because at the time there were bars you could
0:10:07 > 0:10:09go to and you could meet people.
0:10:09 > 0:10:11The older gentlemen would be there, and you could talk to them.
0:10:11 > 0:10:13You could kind of size them up.
0:10:13 > 0:10:15And I didn't like the ones that were just like...rude,
0:10:15 > 0:10:20and just aggressive, so I would gravitate towards maybe
0:10:20 > 0:10:22the more shy person.
0:10:22 > 0:10:23So I had...
0:10:23 > 0:10:27I got to paraphrase.
0:10:27 > 0:10:30This is not something I recommend to anybody, because this is
0:10:30 > 0:10:33a different world today.
0:10:33 > 0:10:39The time that I was doing that was pre-AIDS, and also you can
0:10:39 > 0:10:42meet people face-to-face.
0:10:42 > 0:10:45Now, I have young friends and some of them go on the internet
0:10:45 > 0:10:47and do this, and you don't know what you're walking into.
0:10:47 > 0:10:49There's all kinds of situations.
0:10:49 > 0:10:50You don't know the person.
0:10:50 > 0:10:51You're not having any idea.
0:10:51 > 0:10:56Not that it was safe then, but it was at least you getting
0:10:56 > 0:10:59a feel for the person, you go to dinner, we'd have a talk.
0:10:59 > 0:11:03Sometimes they were just really lonely, they want to talk about
0:11:03 > 0:11:07Tennessee Williams, or, I don't know, Sam Shepard had a play on
0:11:07 > 0:11:10Broadway then, they'd be surprised because a lot of the other kids
0:11:10 > 0:11:13didn't know what he was or who he was, who Tennessee Williams was.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15I could talk to them about that stuff.
0:11:15 > 0:11:19And then I'd get a dinner out of it, which was really cool.
0:11:19 > 0:11:23And then, you know, after being bullied in high school, being made
0:11:23 > 0:11:25to feel like you're just so...
0:11:25 > 0:11:32Not just ugly, but just everything wrong with you.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35These people were like, kind of, they made you feel really special.
0:11:35 > 0:11:43They made you feel really special for that moment.
0:11:43 > 0:11:45I guess what is really intriguing about you...
0:11:45 > 0:11:48And then you made some money, which is the bottom line.
0:11:48 > 0:11:51And then you found some other ways to make money, and you made an awful
0:11:51 > 0:11:54lot of money by becoming one of the most successful commercial
0:11:54 > 0:11:55photographers of your generation.
0:11:55 > 0:11:59I want to talk to you about the way you learned to work
0:11:59 > 0:12:00with your subjects.
0:12:00 > 0:12:03Because, you know, you are famous around the world
0:12:03 > 0:12:09for portraits of beautiful women, for example, and I'm thinking now
0:12:09 > 0:12:11about specifically someone like Angelina Jolie, where you did
0:12:11 > 0:12:18a series of pictures with her.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21Outdoor, with a horse, and they're very staged, they're
0:12:21 > 0:12:24high-production glossy pictures.
0:12:24 > 0:12:28And I wonder when you are doing something
0:12:28 > 0:12:32like that, and trying to win the trust of a major celebrity to go
0:12:32 > 0:12:36out and do these shots, how well do you have to get to know them?
0:12:36 > 0:12:42Not really well at all.
0:12:42 > 0:12:45It's funny, because I spoke a few times with Angelina on the phone,
0:12:45 > 0:12:49and she was really excited about the shoot, and she had a lot of ideas,
0:12:49 > 0:12:53and we came, and everybody left.
0:12:53 > 0:12:55Like, her manager and publicist left us alone.
0:12:55 > 0:13:03I think people trusted me because they could feel that I was
0:13:03 > 0:13:09not there to make them look bad.
0:13:09 > 0:13:12I believed in the aspirational idea of this beauty,
0:13:12 > 0:13:16our stars being larger than life.
0:13:16 > 0:13:19We think that, as human beings, we really appreciate the beauty of
0:13:19 > 0:13:24another human being in any capacity.
0:13:24 > 0:13:26At least, I do.
0:13:26 > 0:13:28Have you ever pushed people into places they really were
0:13:28 > 0:13:31uncomfortable going?
0:13:31 > 0:13:35I think a few times.
0:13:35 > 0:13:36It's uncomfortable, definitely, to be photographed,
0:13:36 > 0:13:39in my kind of pictures.
0:13:39 > 0:13:43Critics have accused you of being ultra-manipulative,
0:13:43 > 0:13:46but also, particularly with women, of too often falling into
0:13:46 > 0:13:54the sort of lazy, easy, commercial thing of sexualising, objectifying,
0:13:54 > 0:13:59and that that is the weakness.
0:13:59 > 0:14:01Your pictures are always striking, and they're memorable, but that is
0:14:01 > 0:14:05the predictability of them.
0:14:05 > 0:14:08I know what my intention is.
0:14:08 > 0:14:13And I'm attracted to certain things and certain exaggerations,
0:14:13 > 0:14:17and certain...
0:14:17 > 0:14:19I'm attracted to lots of different things.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22I'm also attracted to natural beauty, to heavy women,
0:14:22 > 0:14:23and to breasts, and to men.
0:14:23 > 0:14:28I don't think you just have to like one thing.
0:14:28 > 0:14:37Those pictures of Amanda Lepore, who is a dear friend and
0:14:37 > 0:14:41a transgendered woman who had her sex change at 17 as an emancipated
0:14:41 > 0:14:44minor in Yonkers, New York.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46And we became really good friends over photographs.
0:14:46 > 0:14:48I just saw her and I thought, oh, my God!
0:14:48 > 0:14:50I?d never seen a face like that.
0:14:50 > 0:14:54I was scared to talk to her.
0:14:54 > 0:14:58I was at a club in New York, and I finally talked to her,
0:14:58 > 0:14:59this was about 20 years ago.
0:14:59 > 0:15:00And we just...
0:15:00 > 0:15:03She was so sweet, and polite, and she was the best model ever.
0:15:03 > 0:15:06She had this body that was sort of, I'd never seen before, you know?
0:15:06 > 0:15:08It was, people would say it was artificial,
0:15:08 > 0:15:10but I didn't see it like that.
0:15:10 > 0:15:15Because I saw it as she was realising her dream, and she was
0:15:15 > 0:15:18actually one of the most content human beings I've met on the planet.
0:15:18 > 0:15:23Again, and I swear to you, I'm not saying that, like she
0:15:23 > 0:15:26honestly is the most content.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29I've met so many celebrities who are so unhappy, and their lives are so,
0:15:29 > 0:15:33you know, three cell phones, and they're so stressed out.
0:15:33 > 0:15:37And even now, when I come to Hawaii, I still shoot celebrities
0:15:37 > 0:15:39occasionally, and their phones are all going, they're not even looking
0:15:39 > 0:15:43around for a minute to see the rainforest, the jungle, or just take
0:15:43 > 0:15:46some time in these stressful lives.
0:15:46 > 0:15:49Amanda, when she had her sex change, she was so at peace.
0:15:49 > 0:15:52And she was the best model.
0:15:52 > 0:15:55You know, people can say what they want about my work, I will keep
0:15:55 > 0:15:58photographing what I'm attracted to, and that happens to fall
0:15:58 > 0:16:00into a lot of different things.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03I mean, you can like classical music, and you can also like
0:16:03 > 0:16:06classical rock, and you can also go out and dance to disco and enjoy it.
0:16:06 > 0:16:09You can like a lot of stuff in the world.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12You don't have to limit it to one thing.
0:16:12 > 0:16:17What I like, what's in my head at that time, I photograph.
0:16:17 > 0:16:18And I just don't...
0:16:18 > 0:16:20Of course I want the audience to connect,
0:16:20 > 0:16:24I want people to enjoy, to get to something from it, to get pleasure.
0:16:24 > 0:16:27But I'm never doing it in a manipulative way, or trying to
0:16:27 > 0:16:28shock people, or trying to...
0:16:28 > 0:16:31You don't set out to deliberately shock?
0:16:31 > 0:16:33I don't.
0:16:33 > 0:16:36I mean, when the horse is nuzzling Angelina Jolie's breasts?
0:16:36 > 0:16:38It was so beautiful.
0:16:38 > 0:16:41She was having this moment with the horse, it was just the two of us.
0:16:41 > 0:16:45It was so natural.
0:16:45 > 0:16:46It wasn't a production.
0:16:46 > 0:16:49My assistants were really far away, and we were in this field, and...
0:16:49 > 0:16:53But the end result is an image, when you look at it in the lab,
0:16:53 > 0:16:56or on the computer, and you're working with it, you know when you
0:16:56 > 0:16:59put it out there it is going to, it's going to shock people.
0:16:59 > 0:17:02No, I did not, I swear to God I did not.
0:17:02 > 0:17:06I promise you, I didn't know.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08I mean, I still don't think it's shocking.
0:17:08 > 0:17:08Really?
0:17:08 > 0:17:09Why is that shocking?
0:17:09 > 0:17:11To some people it...
0:17:11 > 0:17:16It's a horse.
0:17:16 > 0:17:17It's not licking her breast, he's right here.
0:17:17 > 0:17:20In fact, you know, I don?t even know if Angelina knows
0:17:20 > 0:17:23this, but I took her nipples out of the picture because I didn't want
0:17:23 > 0:17:24to exploit her.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27I want to ask you about one specific photograph of yours
0:17:27 > 0:17:29which is causing a storm right now.
0:17:29 > 0:17:35For the so-called Life Ball in Vienna,
0:17:35 > 0:17:40an event which supports HIV and AIDs charities, you have produced this
0:17:40 > 0:17:43picture of a transgender individual, Carmen Carrera.
0:17:43 > 0:17:49You very explicitly show her breasts, but also her male genitals.
0:17:49 > 0:17:54In Austria, there are people who are expressing absolute disgust, who are
0:17:54 > 0:17:59calling you a criminal and wanting to press charges against you.
0:17:59 > 0:18:04Why did you feel it was right to put that picture out there?
0:18:04 > 0:18:10I never meant to cause any shock or any harm to Vienna.
0:18:10 > 0:18:14What this picture is about is the transgendered woman,
0:18:14 > 0:18:18Carmen Carrera, this beautiful woman who has the male genitalia.
0:18:18 > 0:18:20The female element is dominant.
0:18:20 > 0:18:21It's very explicit.
0:18:21 > 0:18:24You must have known people, looking at this on the street...
0:18:24 > 0:18:27But it's not an erotic photograph, and it's not pornographic.
0:18:27 > 0:18:31It's a beautiful image, it's in a garden.
0:18:31 > 0:18:32It's not erotic.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35But it's on a giant billboard.
0:18:35 > 0:18:36Yes, it's all over Vienna.
0:18:36 > 0:18:39Mothers and children are going to walk past it.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42They can walk by naked women, but why are we allowing them to
0:18:42 > 0:18:45play video games that are violent, and why is every movie, Saw 1, 2,
0:18:45 > 0:18:513, 4, The Hunger Games, where children are killing
0:18:51 > 0:18:54children, torturing children, and we don't mind that, that's OK.
0:18:54 > 0:18:55We are in the Dark Ages.
0:18:55 > 0:18:58When the body is shameful, yet killing and torture is entertainment
0:18:58 > 0:18:59and we're applauding it?
0:18:59 > 0:19:05That's the real pornography.
0:19:05 > 0:19:08That's the real evil, and that's the real darkness.
0:19:08 > 0:19:10Are you saying that you, as a photographer and an artist,
0:19:10 > 0:19:13have no obligation to think about the offence that an image
0:19:13 > 0:19:14like that might cause?
0:19:14 > 0:19:16No, it was never meant to offend anybody.
0:19:16 > 0:19:18That's never been my idea, to offend somebody.
0:19:18 > 0:19:19It's to enlighten people.
0:19:19 > 0:19:21This is a beautiful image.
0:19:21 > 0:19:22It could be...
0:19:22 > 0:19:27It was really inspired by Botticelli.
0:19:27 > 0:19:30She's is in this garden, and it's beautiful.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32And just because she's different from us,
0:19:32 > 0:19:33what are you offended about?
0:19:33 > 0:19:35Are you offended about the breast, or the male genitalia?
0:19:35 > 0:19:40Just because she doesn?t look like us, it doesn?t mean...
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Because it's not made the same way does not mean that it's
0:19:42 > 0:19:43not beautiful.
0:19:43 > 0:19:46Let me pick up on something you just said which I found fascinating.
0:19:46 > 0:19:50You described how, working with celebrities, you're often very
0:19:50 > 0:19:53struck by how stressed out they are, how they're tied to their mobile
0:19:53 > 0:19:54phones, and they are unhappy people.
0:19:54 > 0:20:00Some.
0:20:00 > 0:20:01Not all, but most that I've met.
0:20:01 > 0:20:04And I want you, then, to explain to me why you decided,
0:20:04 > 0:20:07not entirely, but pretty much, to walk away from this world?
0:20:07 > 0:20:08I think it was 05/06?
0:20:08 > 0:20:08Yes.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11You seemed to have had a bit of an epiphany.
0:20:11 > 0:20:12Thank you!
0:20:12 > 0:20:15What happened?
0:20:15 > 0:20:22Well, it was an epiphany, and then I had to act on that epiphany.
0:20:22 > 0:20:24It took a while.
0:20:24 > 0:20:28There was a certain point in my career, and my assistant looked
0:20:28 > 0:20:31at me, and I'd finished this film, Rise, this documentary on dancing in
0:20:31 > 0:20:34central LA, that was a three-year project, while I was working
0:20:34 > 0:20:35on the Elton John show in Vegas.
0:20:35 > 0:20:40It couldn't be two polar opposites.
0:20:40 > 0:20:45At the time, everybody from Elton John to all the big musical
0:20:45 > 0:20:48acts, to all the big advertisers and fashion houses, and the celebs,
0:20:48 > 0:20:50they all wanted a piece of you.
0:20:50 > 0:20:53You were making a lot of money.
0:20:53 > 0:20:54Yes.
0:20:54 > 0:20:58And that's not to be sniffed at.
0:20:58 > 0:21:05But you took the decision that this was not the life you wanted to lead?
0:21:05 > 0:21:10I just would really like to know why and how that happened.
0:21:10 > 0:21:15Well, you're absolutely right, it wasn't
0:21:15 > 0:21:17the life I wanted to live any more.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19I fell out of love with this, with celeb...
0:21:19 > 0:21:22I felt like I was in the celebrity service industry.
0:21:22 > 0:21:23It started getting...
0:21:23 > 0:21:29The publicists and pressure, it was getting really hard-core.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32My assistant turned to me during that period and said,
0:21:32 > 0:21:35?It's been 11 months, and we have not had one day off.?
0:21:35 > 0:21:37And I realised, going back, that's where, you know,
0:21:37 > 0:21:41that's when I, for that brief moment, had started doing drugs to
0:21:41 > 0:21:48have one night, escape, a vacation of the mind, just for a night.
0:21:48 > 0:21:51But I never missed a job.
0:21:51 > 0:21:52I'd be up in the morning.
0:21:52 > 0:21:55That was hard drugs, as well?
0:21:55 > 0:21:57Keeping you going?
0:21:57 > 0:21:59It was a vacation of the mind.
0:21:59 > 0:22:05I used them to escape, have a break.
0:22:05 > 0:22:08Are you saying, if you hadn't walked away in '06, you might have
0:22:08 > 0:22:10pushed yourself over the edge?
0:22:10 > 0:22:12Oh, absolutely.
0:22:12 > 0:22:13Oh, hell, yeah, yes.
0:22:13 > 0:22:19I would have, for sure.
0:22:19 > 0:22:22I want to end by just reflecting on something you've said your mum used
0:22:22 > 0:22:24to tell you when you were young.
0:22:24 > 0:22:27She said, look, we don't care if you end up being
0:22:27 > 0:22:28the garbage guy down the street.
0:22:28 > 0:22:30Just be a good person.
0:22:30 > 0:22:33Yeah.
0:22:33 > 0:22:35When you reflect back on everything we've discussed,
0:22:35 > 0:22:38this extraordinary career with its highs and its lows, its challenges,
0:22:38 > 0:22:42have you been a good person?
0:22:42 > 0:22:45I've tried.
0:22:45 > 0:22:48And changing my life and moving to Maui has made it easier,
0:22:48 > 0:22:53having balance in my life has made it easier to be a better person.
0:22:53 > 0:22:56When I was out of balance, I was taking the stress and losing
0:22:56 > 0:23:03my temper and having anger, and things like that, which have
0:23:03 > 0:23:08really changed a lot since I left.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11You were behaving a bit like some of the celebs that you were
0:23:11 > 0:23:13photographing.
0:23:13 > 0:23:15No, I was never arrogant, and I was never cruel.
0:23:15 > 0:23:19But I had problems handling the stress, and how I would do that,
0:23:19 > 0:23:23I would scream and yell, and then I'd go and apologise to
0:23:23 > 0:23:26my whole staff, they'd be like, ?We've heard it before.?
0:23:26 > 0:23:27The madness didn't end with the photograph.
0:23:27 > 0:23:34The madness, the craziness of the pictures, it wasn't like,
0:23:34 > 0:23:37OK, we're done, then suddenly it was having tea and it was quiet.
0:23:37 > 0:23:38It was kind of insane.
0:23:38 > 0:23:40But we also had a lot of love.
0:23:40 > 0:23:43It wasn't, like, this dark period, or anything like that.
0:23:43 > 0:23:48It just, it had its less-than-pretty moments, but it really was,
0:23:48 > 0:23:53for most of us, it was 20 years and only three or four of those years
0:23:53 > 0:23:55involved drugs and things like that.
0:23:55 > 0:23:57For the rest of it, it was...
0:23:57 > 0:23:59It was a dream come true.
0:23:59 > 0:24:03People worked with me for 25 years, so I couldn't have been that bad
0:24:03 > 0:24:04of a guy.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06They're still with me today.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08They're still with you.
0:24:08 > 0:24:11David LaChapelle, it's been a pleasure to have you on HARDtalk.
0:24:11 > 0:24:20Thank you, thank you very much indeed.
0:24:44 > 0:24:45I just try and do the best I can for them while they're with me.
0:24:45 > 0:24:47What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent?
0:24:47 > 0:24:50You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust.
0:24:50 > 0:24:53It's like a big old question mark in your heart.
0:24:53 > 0:24:56I just try and do the best I can for them while they're with me.
0:24:56 > 0:24:59Join Lorraine Pascale as she looks at stories of fostering...
0:24:59 > 0:25:02I wasn't happy at all, but now I am. ..including her own.