:00:00. > :00:00.Ukrainian servicemen were forced to cross the border following fierce
:00:00. > :00:11.fighting with Russian separatists. Now it is time for HARDtalk.
:00:12. > :00:20.Welcome to a special edition of HARDtalk. August 19 14, 100 years
:00:21. > :00:27.ago, the five great powers of Europe declared war on each other. The
:00:28. > :00:31.significance of the First World War is regularly debated and
:00:32. > :00:40.commemorated but what of that great power, Russia? It also fought
:00:41. > :00:46.against Germany but the desire had been murdered and the Bolshevik
:00:47. > :00:50.revolution brought Lennon to power. How far does what went on in Russia
:00:51. > :00:54.then explains what is going on now? My guess is the renowned theatre and
:00:55. > :01:28.film director, Andrei Konchalovsky. Andrei Konchalovsky, welcome to
:01:29. > :01:35.HARDtalk. Russia went into World War I to defend Serbia against Germany.
:01:36. > :01:39.It lost around 1.7 million and maybe 5 million were injured. Really
:01:40. > :01:49.terrible loss for it. How far has what happens then helped shape
:01:50. > :01:54.Russia Today? It was one of the crucial moments, perhaps one of the
:01:55. > :02:00.most important for the 20th century for Russia. The First World War
:02:01. > :02:07.brought the Bolsheviks to power. That means revolution is the effect
:02:08. > :02:15.and the cause was the war. The Bolsheviks, Trotskyites, or
:02:16. > :02:23.revolutionary parties were in favour of the war because they were hoping
:02:24. > :02:32.that Russia would fail. The Imperial War will ruin Russia, they said, and
:02:33. > :02:36.they were right. I will give you a quote from a representative from the
:02:37. > :02:50.Institute of Slavic studies in Russia. It says that Russia rarely
:02:51. > :02:57.talks about World War I. It was overshadowed. It was quite murky
:02:58. > :03:07.water. The Bolsheviks used, used the world for in order to destroy the
:03:08. > :03:14.fabric of the state. It was important for Bolsheviks to use the
:03:15. > :03:25.world War to promote defeat. Defeat of a dynasty? Defeat of the state.
:03:26. > :03:31.They were sure that the government will fail and that the state will
:03:32. > :03:36.disintegrate during this war and they were right. It was such a
:03:37. > :03:52.significant event, sweeping away centuries of czarist rule. I don't
:03:53. > :03:59.think, in that sense, the First World War and revolution just
:04:00. > :04:07.happened. It was just a trigger. The revolution was, Russia was pregnant
:04:08. > :04:14.revolution since the end of the 19th century. Dostoevsky's novel, the
:04:15. > :04:22.Devils, it is all about revolution. And Russian society at the time, as
:04:23. > :04:31.now, consists from two different nations. There is, what I would call
:04:32. > :04:36.white Russia, a tiny fraction of the Russian nation that basically was
:04:37. > :04:50.born after Peter the Great. European Russians. Intelligentsia. Like you?
:04:51. > :04:55.I am Russian European. They were all ancestors, children of Peter the
:04:56. > :04:59.Great. In the civil war we had the White Army that you refer to, at the
:05:00. > :05:09.White Russians fighting against the red Army of the Bolsheviks, Lenin
:05:10. > :05:25.and his colleagues. They wanted Russia to become European. 95, 90 7%
:05:26. > :05:36.now are not Europeans. `` 95`97% are not Europeans. They are orthodox.
:05:37. > :05:43.Moscow as a symbol of a very conservative, extremely self
:05:44. > :05:50.protective, I would say dogmatic. They are two nations and Russia, we
:05:51. > :05:55.don't understand is two nations. I will ask you about the two nations
:05:56. > :06:00.you talk about but finishing up on what happened after the First World
:06:01. > :06:05.War, the aftermath we saw the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the
:06:06. > :06:12.Austro`Hungarian Empire. Although France and Britain were victors and
:06:13. > :06:16.they did carve up the remnants of the Ottoman Empire, there are on the
:06:17. > :06:25.colonies was quite weak. It is ironic, as Professor Simon Franklin
:06:26. > :06:30.says, there was a peculiar paradox, he says World War I and the
:06:31. > :06:34.revolution in eight Strangeways retarded Russia. The other empires
:06:35. > :06:40.began collapsing however the Soviet Union was really a continuation of
:06:41. > :06:46.the Russian empire in new clothes. Exactly. You kept this Empire made
:06:47. > :06:57.up of different peoples. They are not different, they are two
:06:58. > :07:02.mentalities. When I save Russia was pregnant with revolution, I want to
:07:03. > :07:13.say Europeans, Russian Europeans wanted to have a change. `` when I
:07:14. > :07:23.say. Most of the Tsar family wanted to quit in 1905. They despised the
:07:24. > :07:27.system themselves. That is very important to understand. Russian
:07:28. > :07:33.peasants didn't want a revolution. They were monarch as is. This idea
:07:34. > :07:39.of Russia being east and west, the combination of east and west, let me
:07:40. > :07:45.put to use something which a very prominent Russian has said, an old
:07:46. > :07:50.friend of President Putin, now head of Russia's railways. He says Russia
:07:51. > :07:57.is not between Europe and Asia. Europe and Asia are to the left and
:07:58. > :08:04.right. We are a separate civilisation space. Does Russia have
:08:05. > :08:10.a third way? It is a very popular idea today. Russia is still trying,
:08:11. > :08:16.for some reason, to find self identification. One of the theories
:08:17. > :08:23.today is to have a third way. We are not the west, we are not the east,
:08:24. > :08:33.and I don't think it is correct. We are part of Judaeo`Christian
:08:34. > :08:43.culture. You have got so many Muslims in the Russian Federation.
:08:44. > :08:56.Chechens, the Tatar is. Judaeo`Christian means Russian
:08:57. > :09:02.culture itself. It dominates the Judaeo`Christian is, those not of
:09:03. > :09:09.its background? Russia had to expand far, far east. For 300, 400
:09:10. > :09:18.centuries. Didn't have to, wanted to because it was an imperial power.
:09:19. > :09:33.No, if under terrible was the first Tsar. He wanted more land. `` Ivan
:09:34. > :09:38.the terrible was the first star, he wanted more land. The author Martin
:09:39. > :09:42.Sexsmith says Russia looks both ways, to the democratic, law
:09:43. > :09:47.governed traditions of the west and at the same time to the Asiatic form
:09:48. > :09:56.of government she imbibed in the early years of her government. The
:09:57. > :10:01.iron fist of central power. What is the question? Russia defines itself
:10:02. > :10:09.as not being part of the west, even though as you say the dominant class
:10:10. > :10:23.is European. Dominant class does not determine the mentality of nation.
:10:24. > :10:38.There was a wonderful American, who said the central point is that... I
:10:39. > :10:44.am Conservative. I was liberal for the time being but Conservative then
:10:45. > :10:48.because I realised that only Russian culture will determine Russian
:10:49. > :11:01.politics. Russian tradition, unfortunately, we didn't have Magna
:11:02. > :11:07.Carta. We didn't have any kind of government except Russian nation
:11:08. > :11:12.always delegates power to one person. And then does not want to
:11:13. > :11:19.be, doesn't want to have any responsibility for what is going to
:11:20. > :11:24.happen. Whoever comes to the Kremlin, without even realising what
:11:25. > :11:30.he is going to face. He is going to face, everyone will deliver power to
:11:31. > :11:37.him and he has to be responsible for everything. So when people refer to
:11:38. > :11:43.Vladimir Putin today as having ambitions like a Tsar, the Tsar
:11:44. > :11:47.Russians always seek because this has been a common feature running
:11:48. > :11:59.through Russian history, you think that is a valid point? Every Russian
:12:00. > :12:05.ruler was a Tsar, every, including Lenin and then Stalin and then
:12:06. > :12:11.Christophe and even Gorbachev. Power was delegated to him, not by
:12:12. > :12:23.nations... You get the personality cult and so on. I think Putin
:12:24. > :12:28.underwent extraordinary... Change of psyche because I don't think he
:12:29. > :12:35.understood what was going to happen to him in big, whatever, 12, 14
:12:36. > :12:42.years, when he came to power. When he came to power he had to face the
:12:43. > :12:47.Chechen war, he had to finish that, he had to reunite somehow a state
:12:48. > :12:57.that was falling apart and he was quite European and Western. If you
:12:58. > :13:05.remember, 2003 he said he can even envisage that Russia will join Nato.
:13:06. > :13:19.But the west stumped him. I am sure. And I think the west did not want to
:13:20. > :13:27.level with Putin. They've rejected, is what you are saying. And then it
:13:28. > :13:32.becomes, the trajectory becomes further and further. One of his
:13:33. > :13:36.slogans is Russia returns to itself and a biographer of Putin says he is
:13:37. > :13:41.preparing Russians for something else. Whatever this means is very
:13:42. > :13:54.difficult to say. You have met him a few times. Would you say there is
:13:55. > :13:59.such a thing as Putinism? He does not prepare Russians for anything,
:14:00. > :14:05.Russians prepare him for something. What is that? I have no idea. It is
:14:06. > :14:13.a mystery because in the 21st century, we deal with an enormous
:14:14. > :14:16.country with nuclear power that is, in many senses, has a mediaeval
:14:17. > :14:37.mentality. It has been one of the great
:14:38. > :14:45.superpowers of the world. The first man in space. The idea that if you
:14:46. > :14:49.kill the tyrant and make a democratic election, everything is
:14:50. > :15:02.going to be fine. We see this going on in Iraq. What does it prove? The
:15:03. > :15:09.idea that freedom to pursue prosperity is an absolute mistake.
:15:10. > :15:16.`` freedom to pursue prosperity. It is a mistake to watch how other
:15:17. > :15:22.centres of culture, great civilisations like India, Hinduism,
:15:23. > :15:26.China, is lamp, they have completely different understanding and values.
:15:27. > :15:38.These values cannot be changed by politics. `` Islam. It is very
:15:39. > :15:42.difficult to change. It is the same with Russia. It is very difficult.
:15:43. > :15:48.So you think Russia is backward? Why are you giving that word pejorative
:15:49. > :15:55.meaning? It is arrogant to say that. I am not saying backward.
:15:56. > :15:58.Stalin said that Russia is 50 `100 years behind advanced countries and
:15:59. > :16:07.the distance must be made up in ten years. Is there a sense that Russia
:16:08. > :16:14.is inferior? He failed. He believed that politics could change of
:16:15. > :16:20.mentality. It is a big mistake for Europe to think that what you put
:16:21. > :16:42.in, or whoever else, can change Russian mentality. `` Putin. Some
:16:43. > :16:49.hardline people hanker for the days when Russia had control of Ukraine.
:16:50. > :16:59.That this part of the narrative that they want to be a part of. Putin
:17:00. > :17:02.went into Crimea and he has taken Crimea, hasn't he? He is part of
:17:03. > :17:12.that nationalist pitcher for Russians. I am not sure it is
:17:13. > :17:17.nationalism. What is it? I think he is reading the Russian psyche very
:17:18. > :17:27.well. Which is nationalistic? You can call it nationalistic.
:17:28. > :17:42.Nationalism is not necessarily evil. Your father, Sergei Mikhalkov, wrote
:17:43. > :17:51.the lyrics to the Soviet national anthem and put them again in 1977.
:17:52. > :17:58.Three times. Yes, 1977. And, again, when President Putin revise it, he
:17:59. > :18:06.did it again. He first wrote it when Stalin was around. In 2000, a letter
:18:07. > :18:11.from Russian artists and musicians, open letter to Putin, pretty wanted
:18:12. > :18:16.to revise it, it said that it risked lives wrecked in phantoms of an era
:18:17. > :18:21.when millions of innocent Russians were imprisoned and killed. It is
:18:22. > :18:26.estimated around 20 million Soviets died under Stalin. Rudy you stand on
:18:27. > :18:35.this? Did you want to see your Father's lyrics restored? Yes. We
:18:36. > :18:38.should not forget that a lot of people still live from the Soviet
:18:39. > :18:45.period and live under the Soviet illusion. This generation of Soviet
:18:46. > :18:56.people, they welcomed this anthem, strangely enough. My father used to
:18:57. > :19:00.say it was not anything more than a political document in rhymes. He was
:19:01. > :19:08.trying to make it as simple as possible, the idea of the Russian
:19:09. > :19:14.state. Then he changes the name, to bring fresh now but have been in
:19:15. > :19:25.power. Yes. We had to have Stalin's name. He changed the whole idea. He
:19:26. > :19:31.was asked to take out references to communism. You are a renowned
:19:32. > :19:34.director. One of your films is based around the main character and shows
:19:35. > :19:41.a village that is pining for the order of the old Soviet Union to
:19:42. > :19:46.encapsulated in a sentence. Do you think that with the revival of the
:19:47. > :19:57.old anthem, there is a hankering for that certainty? It is about a
:19:58. > :20:03.gesture. It is not what determines the politics of the state. I spent
:20:04. > :20:14.three months last year shooting a film about peasants. With real
:20:15. > :20:20.persons, and the north of Russia. There are adorable people. They are
:20:21. > :20:26.extraordinary. They have no idea what is going on in the world.
:20:27. > :20:32.People think they can save Russia from imperialism or the West. My
:20:33. > :20:37.British friends who saw the film said it was extraordinary. He said
:20:38. > :20:42.it was a film about happy people living in a post` apocalyptic
:20:43. > :20:47.period. You have brought us back full circle. Throughout history,
:20:48. > :20:54.people like Tolstoy have always celebrated the Russian peasant as
:20:55. > :21:00.being someone of great value. There was a novel where the peasants
:21:01. > :21:01.servant was seen as a better human being than the petty Brewer schwa
:21:02. > :21:14.family. `` Brewer schwa. That kind of extolling the virtues
:21:15. > :21:21.of the Russian peasant is something that we have seen many decades ago.
:21:22. > :21:25.Even now. There is a continuity. Whether you are talking about the
:21:26. > :21:34.opening of the First World War or the revolution. Absolutely. Stalin
:21:35. > :21:38.had some profound thoughts. He said that Lenin misunderstood the Russian
:21:39. > :21:45.peasant. He said that Lennon was thinking that the Russian peasant
:21:46. > :21:54.would go to democracy and production of culture. It did not happen. That
:21:55. > :22:02.is important. Russian peasantry was completely suppressed by Walsh River
:22:03. > :22:10.Exe. `` the Bolsheviks. We have topped about how `` toxid about how
:22:11. > :22:18.Russia was involved in the First World War and did the most to defeat
:22:19. > :22:27.the Nazis but it is however seen as more of a fall than a friend. Is it
:22:28. > :22:37.more friends than fall into reality? I think enemy is the word. It
:22:38. > :22:45.started in the 13th century. The start of this competition for the
:22:46. > :23:00.land started when the first Russian occupants took over. The fight
:23:01. > :23:11.between West and East started when the Latin Church was trying to take
:23:12. > :23:19.over. The Russian church was trying to withstand it. The Ukraine is one
:23:20. > :23:33.of the places throughout these forces clash. I made a film about
:23:34. > :23:37.it. East Rocher always considered the West as invaders because of the
:23:38. > :23:52.Latin religion. That comes very deep. I hope there will not be an
:23:53. > :24:03.end. You will inevitably join Russia. Russia will not join Europe.
:24:04. > :24:07.Europe will need Russia more than Russia will needs Europe. I am sorry
:24:08. > :24:12.for my bad English. Thank you for being on HARDtalk.
:24:13. > :24:39.Goodbye. Hi there. On Monday, temperatures in
:24:40. > :24:42.a few spots across eastern England reached 25 Celsius. We are looking
:24:43. > :24:44.at similar highs as we head to