0:00:01 > 0:00:03Now on BBC News, it's Hardtalk.
0:00:08 > 0:00:15Welcome to HARDtalk.
0:00:15 > 0:00:18I'm Stephen Sackur.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21My guest today has one of the most distinctive voices
0:00:21 > 0:00:23in all of rock music, and a record of success
0:00:24 > 0:00:26going back to the 1980s.
0:00:26 > 0:00:28Chrissy Hynde's band, The Pretenders, first made it
0:00:28 > 0:00:30big in the era of punk.
0:00:30 > 0:00:32She is still making music some three decades on,
0:00:32 > 0:00:42but is she still in love with rock and roll?
0:00:52 > 0:00:55Chrissie Hynde, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:00:55 > 0:00:59Is music as big a part of your life now as it's ever been?
0:00:59 > 0:01:00No, not at all.
0:01:00 > 0:01:01Because?
0:01:01 > 0:01:07Well, because when I was a teenager listening to the radio,
0:01:07 > 0:01:11it was really the only thing I was interested in, and now it's...
0:01:11 > 0:01:13For many reasons, that's changed.
0:01:13 > 0:01:15Maybe because there's not so many bands...
0:01:15 > 0:01:18I would love bands, but now it has all changed a lot.
0:01:18 > 0:01:19Technology has changed it too.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22I can't access things so simply any more,
0:01:22 > 0:01:30so I've got a bit out of touch, I think.
0:01:30 > 0:01:34So that you as a consumer of music, but for you as a performer,
0:01:34 > 0:01:38a songwriter, and a performer as well, is there is much of a buzz
0:01:38 > 0:01:44about that as there ever was?
0:01:44 > 0:01:46Yes, I think so.
0:01:46 > 0:01:51That part of it, that's...
0:01:51 > 0:01:53That's always a constant.
0:01:53 > 0:02:04Only when you're doing it.
0:02:04 > 0:02:08It's all the stuff around it that gets tiresome.
0:02:08 > 0:02:10If you don't feature the celebrity thing,
0:02:10 > 0:02:13or talking about yourself, or being seen in public in any way,
0:02:13 > 0:02:16it's just that hour and a half on stage, that's all.
0:02:16 > 0:02:18Anyone in a band will tell you that.
0:02:18 > 0:02:19And the origin of the creativity?
0:02:19 > 0:02:21The sitting down and writing songs?
0:02:21 > 0:02:23Does that come as easily now?
0:02:23 > 0:02:25Well, I don't know if it was ever easy.
0:02:25 > 0:02:28It was maybe more compulsive when you have nothing to do
0:02:28 > 0:02:31and you're alone in a room with a guitar, then eventually
0:02:31 > 0:02:33you will write a song.
0:02:33 > 0:02:36I never wrote them because I felt I had to or that I should.
0:02:36 > 0:02:40I felt I wanted to write songs and present them to a band.
0:02:40 > 0:02:42It was always about the band.
0:02:42 > 0:02:44You've obviously gone in new directions, and you've
0:02:44 > 0:02:46got a new album out, which you recorded in Sweden
0:02:46 > 0:02:50with a guy, a well-known musician and producer whom I don't think
0:02:50 > 0:02:52you'd worked with before, so obviously there's a lot
0:02:52 > 0:02:55of new stuff going on right now, and I just wonder whether
0:02:56 > 0:02:58you've taken your music in a different direction.
0:02:58 > 0:02:59Does it feel very different?
0:02:59 > 0:02:59Not really.
0:03:00 > 0:03:01No, I don't change very much.
0:03:01 > 0:03:03I just kind of do what I...
0:03:03 > 0:03:06I write some songs, put them together with the band, record it.
0:03:06 > 0:03:08I wouldn't say I'm an experimental artist.
0:03:08 > 0:03:12I just try to do my thing, and if anyone likes it, that's great.
0:03:12 > 0:03:12Yeah.
0:03:12 > 0:03:13But I'm not really...
0:03:13 > 0:03:17I just like to stay in the middle, so if I just can
0:03:17 > 0:03:18do enough to get by.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21I mean, I shouldn't say that in front of my record
0:03:21 > 0:03:24company or my management, because I'm supposed to be out
0:03:24 > 0:03:26here hawking my fish, you know.
0:03:26 > 0:03:29The truth is, I just want to do enough to get
0:03:29 > 0:03:33by and do what I like to do, which is to go on the road
0:03:33 > 0:03:34and play in a band.
0:03:34 > 0:03:35It's very simple for me.
0:03:36 > 0:03:39And what you also seem to have succeeded in doing this time around
0:03:39 > 0:03:43is hooking in a great friend of yours, a guy who I know you've
0:03:43 > 0:03:46always loved to listen to, Neil Young, to play on the album,
0:03:46 > 0:03:48and that must have been quite special.
0:03:48 > 0:03:51That was pretty surreal, but I really wouldn't have thought
0:03:51 > 0:03:54of doing that if I hadn't been working with Bjorn Yttling,
0:03:54 > 0:03:57and just trying to impress him, because I wouldn't have thought
0:03:57 > 0:03:58of calling Neil Young myself.
0:03:58 > 0:04:00But you've known Neil Young for years, haven't you?
0:04:00 > 0:04:01You played with him.
0:04:02 > 0:04:04Didn't you support him?
0:04:04 > 0:04:07Yeah, but I don't ask someone like that, "Will
0:04:07 > 0:04:08you play on my record?"
0:04:08 > 0:04:10I wouldn't even think of it.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13But we had one that sounded like a Neil Young song.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15We kept referring to it as the Neil Young song,
0:04:15 > 0:04:19and just to kind of wind him up, I'd say, of course, we can always
0:04:20 > 0:04:23get Neil Young to play on this, but I never meant it.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25After saying that for about six months, I thought, actually,
0:04:25 > 0:04:28I could get Neil Young to play on this.
0:04:28 > 0:04:28That explains...
0:04:29 > 0:04:31I called him up, and he said yes.
0:04:31 > 0:04:32That explains Neil Young.
0:04:32 > 0:04:34You've got to explain to me John McEnroe.
0:04:34 > 0:04:37People watching this will know John McEnroe as a Wimbledon champion
0:04:37 > 0:04:40and top tennis player, and here he is rocking up
0:04:40 > 0:04:41on your album playing guitar.
0:04:41 > 0:04:44Well, John has always played guitar, and he's always been really
0:04:44 > 0:04:45interested in rock guitar.
0:04:45 > 0:04:49He's John McEnroe, so he has this kind of adolescent, in my view,
0:04:49 > 0:04:50no offence to him...
0:04:50 > 0:04:51Ancient adolescent, I guess we'd say.
0:04:51 > 0:04:52Now, yeah.
0:04:52 > 0:04:55But he loves playing rock guitar, and so whenever I played
0:04:55 > 0:04:58with The Pretenders in New York, I'd always invite him
0:04:58 > 0:04:59on stage, and he's fearless.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02He'll get on stage with anyone and play if he's called upon.
0:05:02 > 0:05:05For years, I've tried to encourage him to stop doing
0:05:05 > 0:05:07the other things he does, charity matches and things
0:05:07 > 0:05:09like that, where he gets together
0:05:09 > 0:05:11with some other tennis players, and play guitar.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14I say, "Why don't you just actually get in a band?"
0:05:14 > 0:05:16In all honesty, is he any good?
0:05:16 > 0:05:17Yeah, he is good.
0:05:17 > 0:05:18He's as good as me.
0:05:19 > 0:05:21But it's a question of taste, I suppose.
0:05:21 > 0:05:24If he was focused and he was playing in a band, he's got it.
0:05:24 > 0:05:28To do the kind of thing he wants to do, which would be sort
0:05:28 > 0:05:35of heavy-metal-come-punk a little bit, I guess I would describe.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38Let me, if I may, go back to the beginning with you.
0:05:38 > 0:05:41You're from Ohio, from the midwest of the United States.
0:05:41 > 0:05:44It's not a place I associate with a big music scene.
0:05:44 > 0:05:47I don't know if there was when you were growing up in Akron,
0:05:47 > 0:05:50but you obviously made a conscious decision pretty early
0:05:50 > 0:05:53on in your life that you didn't want to stay in Akron.
0:05:53 > 0:05:55Is that because there was some fundamental
0:05:55 > 0:05:57rebellious streak in you, and is that connected
0:05:57 > 0:06:00to your music as well?
0:06:00 > 0:06:05Well, I like cities, and the city of Akron pretty much
0:06:05 > 0:06:09had collapsed by the time I was a teenager, you know with
0:06:09 > 0:06:10the mall culture, the car culture.
0:06:10 > 0:06:14American cities, from coast to coast, really,
0:06:14 > 0:06:17except for the obvious big ones that everyone knows about here - Chicago,
0:06:18 > 0:06:20New York, even Philadelphia - most of the cities lost
0:06:20 > 0:06:23their downtown and lost their urban feel and became more
0:06:23 > 0:06:26like what you could call a metroplex, a very suburban sprawl,
0:06:26 > 0:06:30where everyone would have to spend most of the day in a car,
0:06:30 > 0:06:31really, to get anywhere.
0:06:31 > 0:06:38That's what I was leaving.
0:06:38 > 0:06:40And how did you get into music?
0:06:40 > 0:06:45Just listening to radio.
0:06:45 > 0:06:52I grew up when all the best stuff happened as far as rock and roll.
0:06:52 > 0:06:54You still feel that today?
0:06:54 > 0:06:57You've lived through various eras of rock and roll.
0:06:57 > 0:06:59Are you kidding?
0:07:00 > 0:07:04The first album I had was the first Beatles album.
0:07:04 > 0:07:05I was right there.
0:07:06 > 0:07:09I had the first Jimi Hendrix album, Led Zeppelin, all the greats.
0:07:09 > 0:07:11You could name 25 amazing bands, Moby Grape, Buffalo Springfield,
0:07:11 > 0:07:14all those bands out on the west coast.
0:07:14 > 0:07:14There was tonnes.
0:07:15 > 0:07:15Spooky Tooth.
0:07:15 > 0:07:16All these amazing English bands.
0:07:16 > 0:07:20Every day was Christmas if you were a rock and roll fan
0:07:20 > 0:07:22and you liked bands, because everywhere you looked
0:07:22 > 0:07:27there were amazing bands.
0:07:27 > 0:07:36I think it over, to be honest.
0:07:36 > 0:07:41There's still bands and they are still out there touring, and,
0:07:41 > 0:07:49especially in America, they love guitar-based
0:07:49 > 0:07:50rock and roll, so...
0:07:50 > 0:07:54I toured with ZZ Top and the Stray Cats a few years ago,
0:07:54 > 0:07:57and that was my audience.
0:07:57 > 0:08:01I love that, because it was all these sort of bikers and waitress
0:08:01 > 0:08:02types, who loved guitar-based rock.
0:08:02 > 0:08:05It's sort of pared down, pretty simple rock and roll.
0:08:05 > 0:08:07It couldn't be more simple than what I like.
0:08:07 > 0:08:10That's about as simple as you go in this game.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13Two guitars, bass and drums, maybe some keyboards, and some songs.
0:08:13 > 0:08:16Your sense that that America, the America of I guess
0:08:16 > 0:08:19the early to mid 70s, was going in the wrong direction.
0:08:19 > 0:08:22Was that a big part of your decision to head to the UK?
0:08:22 > 0:08:26I don't know if I was that aware of what was going on.
0:08:26 > 0:08:29I knew I wanted to see the world, and I liked English music,
0:08:29 > 0:08:32and I wanted to get out of cars.
0:08:32 > 0:08:34I could see the way the car culture was going.
0:08:34 > 0:08:35That I could see.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39You were sort of out of love with your own country, really?
0:08:39 > 0:08:39I what?
0:08:39 > 0:08:42You were out of love with your own country.
0:08:42 > 0:08:44Yeah, but I was in love with England.
0:08:44 > 0:08:48I was always in love with England, even as a child, because I thought
0:08:48 > 0:08:49everyone rode horses here.
0:08:49 > 0:08:51I grew up thinking England must be the greatest place,
0:08:51 > 0:08:55and then all those English bands came along, and I was absolutely
0:08:55 > 0:08:57in love with England, and always have been.
0:08:57 > 0:08:59And you've pretty much stayed based here ever since?
0:08:59 > 0:09:00Yeah.
0:09:00 > 0:09:01Because you ended up forming a band.
0:09:02 > 0:09:05Again, it's fascinating to think about what it must have been like.
0:09:05 > 0:09:08You formed a band with three guys who actually were from a very
0:09:08 > 0:09:09rural part of England.
0:09:09 > 0:09:10Hereford, yeah.
0:09:10 > 0:09:13Hereford, which, for those who don't know it, is a pretty small,
0:09:13 > 0:09:14rural, isolated town.
0:09:14 > 0:09:18And here were you, rocking up from the United States with a very
0:09:18 > 0:09:20particular love of rock and roll music.
0:09:20 > 0:09:23How did you all gel together and come to be The Pretenders?
0:09:23 > 0:09:25This is really a long story.
0:09:25 > 0:09:27Give me the shortest version you can.
0:09:27 > 0:09:31I'll give you the short version.
0:09:31 > 0:09:34I went to Lemmy and I said, "Look, man, I'm getting
0:09:34 > 0:09:35this band together."
0:09:35 > 0:09:37I'd been in England for about five, seven years.
0:09:37 > 0:09:41I'd travelled around a lot once I wanted to get my band together.
0:09:41 > 0:09:43I lived through the punk thing.
0:09:43 > 0:09:43I knew everybody.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47But I still didn't have my band together, so I went to Lemmy,
0:09:47 > 0:09:52and I said, you know...
0:09:52 > 0:09:54When you say Lemmy, you mean Lemmy from motorhead?
0:09:54 > 0:09:55Yeah, Lemmy.
0:09:55 > 0:09:58I was kind of feeling sorry for myself, and he said, "Well,
0:09:58 > 0:10:00no one said it was going to be easy."
0:10:00 > 0:10:04And he wasn't really as sympathetic as I thought he might be,
0:10:04 > 0:10:06but he said, "There's one drummer kid in town that
0:10:06 > 0:10:08you might want to check out.
0:10:08 > 0:10:08So, anyway,
0:10:08 > 0:10:10I found this guy in street.
0:10:10 > 0:10:14I saw him one day, and I said, "Hey, is your name gas?"
0:10:14 > 0:10:15And he went, "Yeah."
0:10:15 > 0:10:17So I said, "Be in a band with me."
0:10:17 > 0:10:20And he was from Hereford, so he didn't really last,
0:10:20 > 0:10:22but through him I met Pete Farndon.
0:10:22 > 0:10:24Through Pete Farndon, another long story, we found
0:10:24 > 0:10:27James Honeyman-Scott, who I think is one of the last
0:10:27 > 0:10:31great guitar heroes.
0:10:31 > 0:10:35I'm sorry that he went so early, and at the time when he died,
0:10:35 > 0:10:39I didn't publicly make much of it, as people would these days, maybe,
0:10:39 > 0:10:40but I don't think that's right.
0:10:40 > 0:10:43He really never got his due for the contribution he made
0:10:43 > 0:10:45as a rock guitar player.
0:10:45 > 0:10:45That I regret.
0:10:45 > 0:10:49That's one of the reasons I still do this, actually, because I want them
0:10:49 > 0:10:52to have their place in history, because that's what
0:10:52 > 0:10:54was important to them.
0:10:54 > 0:10:58That is very interesting.
0:10:58 > 0:11:00It's actually very poignant, because within years
0:11:00 > 0:11:02of having your big success with The Pretenders,
0:11:02 > 0:11:04when everything really took off in 1980, 81,
0:11:04 > 0:11:0782, within a couple of years of that, two of the original
0:11:07 > 0:11:08band members had died.
0:11:09 > 0:11:13Yeah.
0:11:13 > 0:11:17Both drugs-related.
0:11:18 > 0:11:19That must have been, for you personally,
0:11:20 > 0:11:21extraordinarily hard.
0:11:22 > 0:11:25Well, yeah, of course it was, but I'm not trying to make it seem
0:11:25 > 0:11:29like it was less of a bummer than it was, but everyone goes
0:11:29 > 0:11:32through stuff in their lives, and I think to look at someone
0:11:32 > 0:11:38and say, "Wow, she's had a hard..."
0:11:38 > 0:11:41Frankly, who hasn't?
0:11:41 > 0:11:45Everyone loses family and friends.
0:11:45 > 0:11:51You go through this stuff in your life.
0:11:51 > 0:11:55Yeah, I could have...
0:11:55 > 0:11:57Without going into too much detail...
0:11:57 > 0:11:59It was so traumatic, it probably didn't bother me
0:11:59 > 0:12:02as much at the time, and I was pregnant for the first
0:12:02 > 0:12:06time and I didn't know how I was going to deal with that.
0:12:06 > 0:12:10I had to find some other guys to play with and get back on stage
0:12:10 > 0:12:13and keep my thing alive, because I didn't have anything else.
0:12:13 > 0:12:16You know, it was that or I don't know what.
0:12:16 > 0:12:19My aspirations weren't much higher than maybe I could be a waitress.
0:12:19 > 0:12:21I didn't have a lot to fall back on.
0:12:22 > 0:12:24Was there ever a time, in that period of great success
0:12:24 > 0:12:27but real tragedy as well, where you fell close
0:12:27 > 0:12:29to the edge yourself?
0:12:29 > 0:12:34Well, yeah.
0:12:34 > 0:12:35A lot.
0:12:35 > 0:12:35Of course.
0:12:35 > 0:12:36Because of drugs?
0:12:36 > 0:12:38All sorts of things, you know.
0:12:38 > 0:12:41Guys I was going out with, they were all wrong, and drugs...
0:12:41 > 0:12:43Stuff that everyone does, everyone goes through.
0:12:43 > 0:12:45I don't think my story...
0:12:45 > 0:12:48The only thing unique about my story is I've
0:12:48 > 0:12:51had this like amazing band - bands, now.
0:12:51 > 0:12:54And that's what I'm good at, finding good bands and making sure
0:12:54 > 0:13:05the guys sound great.
0:13:05 > 0:13:09You smile about it now, and you've sort of left it behind in a way,
0:13:09 > 0:13:12but is there any part of that Chrissie Hynde back then
0:13:12 > 0:13:19that is still with you today?
0:13:19 > 0:13:27Do you ever get bleak and black times today that remind you of some
0:13:27 > 0:13:29of the times you had then?
0:13:29 > 0:13:29Er...
0:13:29 > 0:13:32I have maybe bleak and black times that remind me
0:13:32 > 0:13:35of the times I'm having now, and, you know, I miss them.
0:13:35 > 0:13:36I miss those guys.
0:13:36 > 0:13:38There's a lot about it...
0:13:38 > 0:13:40But what can I do about it?
0:13:40 > 0:13:43I've tried to keep the music alive to keep their memory going.
0:13:43 > 0:13:46I could have said, "Right, that's it, it's over,
0:13:46 > 0:13:49and I'll do something else now, I won't play those songs again."
0:13:49 > 0:13:51But that didn't seem right, because we'd put
0:13:51 > 0:13:53a lot of work into that.
0:13:53 > 0:13:55And they had a real, unique sound.
0:13:55 > 0:14:03It wasn't my sound.
0:14:03 > 0:14:04It was not the Chrissie Hynde sound.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07The sound of The Pretenders really didn't have a sound.
0:14:07 > 0:14:11It was more, I would say, equally with my songs and my voice,
0:14:11 > 0:14:14but it was mainly inspired by the sound of James Honeyman-Scott,
0:14:14 > 0:14:16and the other guys, Pete Farndon and Martin Chambers,
0:14:16 > 0:14:18you know.
0:14:18 > 0:14:21Let me ask you a little bit about the voice,
0:14:21 > 0:14:24because a lot of people watching this will have such a clear sort
0:14:24 > 0:14:27of sound in their head of a Chrissie Hynde voice,
0:14:27 > 0:14:29because it is a very distinctive.
0:14:29 > 0:14:31Do you recognise it?
0:14:31 > 0:14:34Do you know there is something very special about your voice?
0:14:34 > 0:14:35Well, I guess that's subjective.
0:14:35 > 0:14:38If you think there is, then there is for you.
0:14:38 > 0:14:42For me, I found it very difficult to listen back to for many years,
0:14:42 > 0:14:45and if anyone was even in the control room and they...
0:14:45 > 0:14:47You know, a lot of singers are like this.
0:14:47 > 0:14:50If they soloed the voice, I would just die of embarrassment,
0:14:50 > 0:14:55and I didn't want to be watched while I was singing.
0:14:55 > 0:14:57I don't like people around when I'm trying...
0:14:57 > 0:14:58I was like that painting too.
0:14:58 > 0:15:01I don't want people around when I'm doing my thing.
0:15:01 > 0:15:02Really?
0:15:02 > 0:15:04Of course, you have to get on stage.
0:15:04 > 0:15:07You've got to do the live gigs, and then there's no hiding place.
0:15:07 > 0:15:10No, but that's different, because you're with the band.
0:15:10 > 0:15:12You're up there with your little gang.
0:15:12 > 0:15:16It's a weird one, because there's a lot about it that
0:15:16 > 0:15:19doesn't feel very good.
0:15:19 > 0:15:22It was probably after about 200 shows that I didn't hate
0:15:22 > 0:15:26the idea of going onstage.
0:15:26 > 0:15:31You seriously had stage fright?
0:15:31 > 0:15:34Yeah, of course.
0:15:34 > 0:15:34Everyone does.
0:15:34 > 0:15:37Don't think that this confidence thing, that there a few chosen few
0:15:37 > 0:15:38people that are confident.
0:15:39 > 0:15:41None of us are, especially people in bands.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43We're the dropouts that didn't have much confidence and weren't
0:15:43 > 0:15:46very good at anything, and are blagging it, and probably
0:15:46 > 0:15:47weren't very good at things.
0:15:48 > 0:15:51For you in particular, you always had such a strong image onstage.
0:15:51 > 0:15:52Hey, I'm six feet above you.
0:15:52 > 0:15:53I'm on the stage.
0:15:53 > 0:15:56I can do what I want up there.
0:15:56 > 0:15:58So what am I going to do?
0:15:58 > 0:16:00Every day you have to make a decision about everything.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03You make a good decision or a bad one.
0:16:03 > 0:16:04I'm going to be onstage.
0:16:04 > 0:16:08Do I want to look like I have no confidence and I'm afraid?
0:16:08 > 0:16:10Because that's not what people want to see.
0:16:10 > 0:16:11I'm there for them.
0:16:11 > 0:16:14You see one guy in the audience that you kind of think,
0:16:14 > 0:16:15"I'll play to him."
0:16:15 > 0:16:17If there's a guy like that there.
0:16:17 > 0:16:20If there is, that helps, or they'll be one kind of crazy
0:16:20 > 0:16:23dancer in a balcony, and the whole band will fixate
0:16:23 > 0:16:26on that, and that carries you through the whole show.
0:16:26 > 0:16:28Any bit of madness can get you through it.
0:16:28 > 0:16:32Let me ask you about being a successful woman in rock and roll.
0:16:32 > 0:16:36I know you've always said, look, it really hasn't made a difference
0:16:36 > 0:16:39to me being a man or a woman, it's rock and roll.
0:16:39 > 0:16:42But it is a business that, to an outsider,
0:16:42 > 0:16:46often looks very sexist.
0:16:46 > 0:16:52Have you never felt that in your own career and what happened to you?
0:16:52 > 0:16:52I was...
0:16:52 > 0:16:57It took me a long time to...
0:16:57 > 0:17:01I didn't want to pull out my guitar and play in front of guys
0:17:01 > 0:17:04because I knew I wasn't very good and it was mainly guys,
0:17:05 > 0:17:08and I was shy to do that in front of the guys.
0:17:08 > 0:17:08You know, so...
0:17:08 > 0:17:11That part of it, and I didn't think it was...
0:17:11 > 0:17:14Did you never have people, like promoters, agents, managers,
0:17:14 > 0:17:16telling you how to look?
0:17:16 > 0:17:21Oh, no.
0:17:21 > 0:17:22That's a myth.
0:17:22 > 0:17:22No.
0:17:22 > 0:17:25You know, I've never met any musicians where,
0:17:25 > 0:17:29if a girl walked in the room, I don't care if it's Jeff Beck
0:17:29 > 0:17:32or any of the greats, it could be Billy Gibbons,
0:17:32 > 0:17:33anyone, any record company guy.
0:17:33 > 0:17:37A girl walks in the room, picks up a guitar and plays great,
0:17:37 > 0:17:40they're all going to go, I want to play with her.
0:17:40 > 0:17:42You know, because they want to be around them.
0:17:42 > 0:17:44Men want to be with women.
0:17:44 > 0:17:46Sure, but isn't there some sleazebag who's going to say,
0:17:46 > 0:17:50I want to play with her, but I want her to look like this.
0:17:50 > 0:17:52I want her to wear that.
0:17:52 > 0:17:54And I want the image to be just so.
0:17:54 > 0:17:56If there is, I've never met him.
0:17:56 > 0:17:58Here's something you wrote.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01I think you had your tongue firmly in your cheek at the time,
0:18:01 > 0:18:05but when you launched an album, I think it was Last
0:18:05 > 0:18:05of the Independents.
0:18:05 > 0:18:08You also published some notes, you said, for any prospective...
0:18:08 > 0:18:09I did that...
0:18:09 > 0:18:11This girlfriend of mine, Angela Harrington, she was starting
0:18:11 > 0:18:14a magazine, and she kept on to me...
0:18:14 > 0:18:16You know what I'm talking about?
0:18:16 > 0:18:17Yes, something for her magazine.
0:18:18 > 0:18:22Well, let me quote you one line, just see how you feel about it now.
0:18:22 > 0:18:22OK.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25I just did it to get her off my back.
0:18:25 > 0:18:25There you go.
0:18:25 > 0:18:28These were notes to any prospective rock chick.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30You said, "Look, don't moan about being a chick.
0:18:30 > 0:18:32Don't refer to feminism or complain about discrimination.
0:18:32 > 0:18:35We've all been thrown down stairs and screwed around,
0:18:35 > 0:18:37but no one wants to hear a whining female.
0:18:37 > 0:18:42Just write a loosely-disguised song about it and clean up."
0:18:42 > 0:18:44Well, that's certainly good advice, isn't it?
0:18:44 > 0:18:47Well, feminists listening and watching this might think, why
0:18:47 > 0:18:52not introduce some feminist protest?
0:18:52 > 0:18:54What about me?
0:18:54 > 0:18:56I'm almost like the poster girl for feminism.
0:18:56 > 0:18:58You know, everything about me says feminism.
0:18:58 > 0:18:59So I don't think...
0:18:59 > 0:19:03Isn't it better to walk it than talk it, given a choice?
0:19:03 > 0:19:04Right.
0:19:04 > 0:19:07I just wonder, again reflecting on your own life, I mean,
0:19:07 > 0:19:11you've raised kids as well as having a career in rock and roll, but that,
0:19:11 > 0:19:14I guess, is not easy.
0:19:14 > 0:19:17Again, one more thought on this, and it's quite an amusing one,
0:19:17 > 0:19:21in a way, because you, I think, once got a note from a band.
0:19:21 > 0:19:24I don't think you knew them, but they liked your music.
0:19:24 > 0:19:27But they then sent you a note saying, you know what,
0:19:27 > 0:19:30your records used to be great before you got domesticated.
0:19:30 > 0:19:33Something like that, yeah.
0:19:33 > 0:19:37And that, I know it was meant to be amusing, but also...
0:19:37 > 0:19:40No, it wasn't meant to be amusing.
0:19:40 > 0:19:41They were serious, and it's true.
0:19:41 > 0:19:45I mean, domesticity kills off this stuff, definitely.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48So, what, you don't think it's really possible for a woman who's
0:19:48 > 0:19:54just had kids to be in the music business, to make rock and roll?
0:19:54 > 0:19:56No, I never said that.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59I said domesticity, for any artist, you know,
0:19:59 > 0:20:03if you're comfortable and you're getting on with domestic life,
0:20:03 > 0:20:08it's not going to be cutting edge rock and roll.
0:20:08 > 0:20:11You're just going to have to lay out for a few years.
0:20:11 > 0:20:12Did you?
0:20:12 > 0:20:14Yeah, I didn't tour for eight years.
0:20:14 > 0:20:17And my kids never saw me on stage until they were 14.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20It was past their bedtime.
0:20:20 > 0:20:26I was never photographed with them or talked about them either, so,
0:20:26 > 0:20:28you know, I just kind of stayed out of it.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30Elvis Costello is my age.
0:20:30 > 0:20:31He's probably made four times more...
0:20:31 > 0:20:35He's probably done 40 records to my ten records, probably.
0:20:35 > 0:20:39Let me talk about politics in a different way,
0:20:39 > 0:20:42and that is the way that you, throughout your life,
0:20:42 > 0:20:45professional life, have always made a point of being a campaigner,
0:20:45 > 0:20:46particularly for animal rights.
0:20:46 > 0:20:51I guess it's fair to say that has been central
0:20:51 > 0:20:52to your outlook on life.
0:20:52 > 0:20:55Why animal rights?
0:20:55 > 0:20:58Why did you get so passionately involved with them?
0:20:58 > 0:20:59That's just something that you're born with.
0:21:00 > 0:21:01Some people are and some people aren't.
0:21:01 > 0:21:03It's not something you learn.
0:21:03 > 0:21:08Probably like most of human behaviour.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10Some people have one thing that you're good
0:21:10 > 0:21:11at or you're interested in.
0:21:12 > 0:21:15And with me I just don't like to see animals mistreated,
0:21:15 > 0:21:18and I was one of those little girls that loved animals,
0:21:18 > 0:21:19horses and things.
0:21:19 > 0:21:23So as I got older, and, of course, the whole vegetarian thing goes
0:21:23 > 0:21:29into the environmental picture, and it's all related.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32I haven't campaigned that much.
0:21:33 > 0:21:35I've been vocal about it.
0:21:35 > 0:21:36Definitely, promoting vegetarianism is my thing.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38I don't like meat eaters.
0:21:38 > 0:21:39You know, I don't like it.
0:21:39 > 0:21:40It's indefensible.
0:21:40 > 0:21:43Why would you kill an animal if you didn't have to?
0:21:43 > 0:21:45You say you don't like meat eaters.
0:21:45 > 0:21:48Have you, in your life, basically made a point
0:21:48 > 0:21:51of being close to and being friends with people who are either
0:21:51 > 0:21:52vegetarian or vegans?
0:21:52 > 0:21:54Yeah, I don't like them either.
0:21:54 > 0:21:58Meat eaters, it's just wrong.
0:21:58 > 0:22:02If you have to kill, do it.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05You know, sometimes there is a time and a place for everything.
0:22:05 > 0:22:06I'm not necessarily a pacifist.
0:22:06 > 0:22:07I'm definitely a warrior.
0:22:07 > 0:22:10I'll go out on the front line every time.
0:22:10 > 0:22:11Hey, well, you did.
0:22:11 > 0:22:13I'm ready to go at all times.
0:22:13 > 0:22:14You pushed it pretty far.
0:22:14 > 0:22:18A dozen years or so ago, in New York City, you were involved
0:22:18 > 0:22:19in a very direct action.
0:22:19 > 0:22:21Yeah, I didn't push it very far.
0:22:21 > 0:22:24I've been in some protests with Peta and gone to jail.
0:22:24 > 0:22:25But pushing it far...
0:22:25 > 0:22:26It's pretty far.
0:22:26 > 0:22:30When you go into a store, like the Gap store in New York, and...
0:22:30 > 0:22:32Not as far as someone who goes in undercover working
0:22:33 > 0:22:33in a slaughterhouse.
0:22:33 > 0:22:34That's going far.
0:22:34 > 0:22:38When you really get in there, and you dig in, and you're watching
0:22:38 > 0:22:40animals who are not being stunned and are getting skinned.
0:22:40 > 0:22:44We're talking about the consumers, and to change the mind of a consumer
0:22:44 > 0:22:47who thinks it's all right to kill animals, I can't do it.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50I mean, Morrisey did it with his song.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53A lot of people became vegetarian after hearing Meat Is Murder
0:22:53 > 0:22:54because it made them...
0:22:54 > 0:23:01You know, I suppose, it's like a switch.
0:23:01 > 0:23:04I'm 3% of the population in the west.
0:23:04 > 0:23:06Even India's now becoming meat eaters.
0:23:06 > 0:23:07And China as well.
0:23:08 > 0:23:09Yeah, so it is what it is.
0:23:09 > 0:23:11We're not going to win this thing.
0:23:11 > 0:23:13People kill animals because they think it's
0:23:13 > 0:23:15all right to kill them.
0:23:15 > 0:23:17We're here to stop that if we can.
0:23:17 > 0:23:21We don't think it's right, and we're here to stop you, even if we're
0:23:21 > 0:23:22in a very small minority.
0:23:22 > 0:23:25I'm not even trying to make you change your mind,
0:23:25 > 0:23:27because you have all the information, and there's nothing
0:23:27 > 0:23:31I can tell you that you can't find out on the Internet now.
0:23:31 > 0:23:34All you have to do is pop in "meat-eating clip", go,
0:23:34 > 0:23:37and it will tell you all you need to know about it.
0:23:37 > 0:23:39So I can't tell you any more.
0:23:39 > 0:23:42If you think that's all right to do, as far as I'm concerned,
0:23:42 > 0:23:44I'm here to stop you.
0:23:44 > 0:23:45That doesn't put me on...
0:23:45 > 0:23:46I'm a minority.
0:23:46 > 0:23:48I'm just trying to hold my ground here.
0:23:48 > 0:23:52I have to sleep at night too, so I have to do things that make me
0:23:52 > 0:23:58feel at least I've tried to do the right thing that day.
0:23:58 > 0:24:01Chrissie Hynde, we have to end there, but thank you very much
0:24:01 > 0:24:02for being on HARDtalk.
0:24:02 > 0:24:02Pleasure.
0:24:02 > 0:24:27Thanks a lot.
0:24:33 > 0:24:33Good morning.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36There is wind and rain in the forecast for the British
0:24:36 > 0:24:40Isles over the next few days but nothing like the wet and windy
0:24:40 > 0:24:43weather that is being brought in the Caribbean by Hurricane Irma.