:00:00. > :00:20.Depending on who you believe, Russia's escalating military
:00:21. > :00:22.intervention in Syria is a game intervention in Syria is a game
:00:23. > :00:28.changing this for the forces of legitimacy in the face of terrorism
:00:29. > :00:32.or a foolish gamble which were further destabilise Syria and
:00:33. > :00:37.backfire on the Kremlin. My guest today is chief spokesman for
:00:38. > :00:45.President Vladimir Putin, Dmitry Peskov. Does Russia's desire to sure
:00:46. > :00:46.up the Assad regime risk a dangerous new confrontation with the United
:00:47. > :01:19.States? Dmitry Peskov in Moscow, welcome to
:01:20. > :01:22.the programme. Thank you, hello. Let's start in Syria. We have seen
:01:23. > :01:26.more than three weeks of bombing by more than three weeks of bombing by
:01:27. > :01:32.your air force in Syria, we have seen a a few cruise missiles let off
:01:33. > :01:37.as well. Would you say military intervention is going away you had
:01:38. > :01:47.hoped? First of all, it is intervention, it is to support the
:01:48. > :01:51.Syrian army in their struggle with tender and organisations that are
:01:52. > :02:00.occupying the majority of the territory of the Syrian republic.
:02:01. > :02:04.Moscow. She says the Russians are Moscow. She says the Russians are
:02:05. > :02:08.not primarily fighting Islamic State but in fact other opposition groups.
:02:09. > :02:19.The main goal is clearly supporting ground offensives by the Syrian
:02:20. > :02:21.army. Would you agree? I would agree in the part that says we are
:02:22. > :02:25.supporting the Syrian army. We are supporting the Syrian army. We are
:02:26. > :02:28.supporting the Syrian army and in your introduction you said there was
:02:29. > :02:33.a time to back-up the regime of Assad in Syria. Now, it is not. It
:02:34. > :02:36.is an attempt to sue Syria from terrorists and extremist
:02:37. > :02:46.organisations. Of course, there are lots of words and analysis about
:02:47. > :02:53.balanced opposition or smart opposition. Unfortunately, all our
:02:54. > :03:00.partners have failed up until now to identify a serious opposition that
:03:01. > :03:11.is now linked with terror, links with organisations like I -- Islamic
:03:12. > :03:19.State and Al-Qaeda. It is important to save Syria's editorial and
:03:20. > :03:26.political integrity so the region including the bordering countries do
:03:27. > :03:34.terror. To clarify, Dmitry Peskov, terror. To clarify, Dmitry Peskov,
:03:35. > :03:37.are you saying all rebel forces in Syria who are fighting the Assad
:03:38. > :03:43.regime are terrorists and therefore targets for your air force? The
:03:44. > :03:48.great majority of serious forces that are really in danger or Syria
:03:49. > :04:00.and a danger for all of us are really terrorists. So, the Free
:04:01. > :04:05.Syrian Army which is backed by the United States and other groups, they
:04:06. > :04:13.the Russian air force? Not the Russian air force? Not
:04:14. > :04:18.necessarily. Let's remember... Do you remember pictures of a soldier
:04:19. > :04:24.eating the heart of a Syrian soldier? I think that all of us
:04:25. > :04:33.would remember those terrible photos and video also exists, and the guy
:04:34. > :04:37.who was eating the heart was a guy from the Syrian army that you have
:04:38. > :04:50.mentioned, so it is not a solid unit. It is not an organised army.
:04:51. > :04:56.It consists of various groups and we cannot be sure that all of them are
:04:57. > :05:00.devoted to the idea of fighting terror. But it is interesting that
:05:01. > :05:08.the breakdown of missions flown by your air force, Reuters news agency
:05:09. > :05:13.agency just dead data on your own ministry of defence and it shows
:05:14. > :05:21.that 80% of the bombings are aimed at groups and territory not held by
:05:22. > :05:22.the so-called Islamic State, so it is clear that the Islamic State
:05:23. > :05:25.group, which the rest of the world group, which the rest of the world
:05:26. > :05:34.threat in Syria today, is really not threat in Syria today, is really not
:05:35. > :05:39.a priority at all for you. That is a very primitive approach to speak
:05:40. > :05:45.only about the Islamic State army. There are tens and tens of other
:05:46. > :05:50.very dangerous groups. It's illogical to say that if you're not
:05:51. > :05:55.bombing Islamic State, you are doing wrong. I repeat, there are lots,
:05:56. > :06:02.there is a mixture of terrorists and extremist groups there and they are
:06:03. > :06:14.all opposing the Syrian army, the legitimate Syrian Army. You have to
:06:15. > :06:22.support the Syrian Army. For example, the America coalition. They
:06:23. > :06:31.have bombed there for many years. I not debating the result, I am
:06:32. > :06:36.witnessing it. Two thirds of Syrian territories are in control of
:06:37. > :06:38.Islamic State. Russian military forces have been doing their support
:06:39. > :06:45.job for a couple of weeks so it is job for a couple of weeks so it is
:06:46. > :06:55.early to think about results but we see the first signs of successful
:06:56. > :07:01.offensives by the Syrian Army and hopefully they will manage to save,
:07:02. > :07:05.meter after meter, kilometre after kilometre, their soil from
:07:06. > :07:11.terrorists and extremists. You say this is about legitimacy and the
:07:12. > :07:17.Assad himself. Why did you host Mr Assad himself. Why did you host Mr
:07:18. > :07:27.Putin in Russia just a couple of days ago? -- why did you and Mr
:07:28. > :07:32.Putin host him in Russia a couple of days ago? He cannot think about the
:07:33. > :07:35.future of political settlement without having a dialogue with
:07:36. > :07:46.legitimate leadership of Syria, with the legitimate president of Syria.
:07:47. > :07:50.If you exclude the possibility of having a dialogue with them, it
:07:51. > :07:57.shows you're not serious in your approach to stability. This is what
:07:58. > :08:01.Francois Hollande said. He said, I want to believe about Mr Assad being
:08:02. > :08:04.message was delivered there must be message was delivered there must be
:08:05. > :08:13.a political transition in Syria and one that Assad can have no future
:08:14. > :08:22.in. Was that the message? First of all, neither Paris nor London now
:08:23. > :08:25.say who is supposed to be the say who is supposed to be the
:08:26. > :08:33.president of Syria and who is not. This is what Mr Putin has been
:08:34. > :08:42.insisting on the last month. His idea is that we can help them to
:08:43. > :08:48.have a political settlement. You're sending in bombers on Mr Assad's
:08:49. > :08:51.behalf. Whatever you say, the effect of what you're doing is to
:08:52. > :08:59.strengthen, very significantly, Assad's hand, and you know that? Of
:09:00. > :09:04.course, it is our goal to strengthen the legitimate Syrian Army, because
:09:05. > :09:11.this is the only way. Let's not forget, and I think all the military
:09:12. > :09:18.experts would agree with me, we can bomb for months and years, positions
:09:19. > :09:22.of terrorists. We can have as much the zones are flying around Syria as
:09:23. > :09:26.we want or we can continue our air force situation, but it will bring
:09:27. > :09:34.no significant result without ground no significant result without ground
:09:35. > :09:38.appreciation and the only power that can perform this on ground
:09:39. > :09:43.operation, and on ground offensive against terror, is the Syrian Army,
:09:44. > :09:52.so if we don't pursue a call and give support to that army, then
:09:53. > :09:55.interesting in the way you keep interesting in the way you keep
:09:56. > :09:59.talking about the Syrian Army rather than President Assad. Are you
:10:00. > :10:05.prepared to agree with the Americans and other Western powers who say
:10:06. > :10:09.that while Assad perhaps can be topped two at the beginning of the
:10:10. > :10:15.diplomatic process, in the end, there can be no long-term
:10:16. > :10:20.stabilisation, there can be no meaningful transition to a peaceful,
:10:21. > :10:26.stable Syria with Assad still in power? Would you agree? I would
:10:27. > :10:32.agree with another idea that was again stressed out by our President
:10:33. > :10:40.political settlement when there is a political settlement when there is a
:10:41. > :10:46.danger of losing the masses. We cannot be sure, without external
:10:47. > :10:52.support, these days coming from Russia, we cannot be sure that
:10:53. > :10:59.Damascus will not fall in a couple of months under oppression of
:11:00. > :11:06.terrorists. We have to support them. Only when we take a victory upon
:11:07. > :11:10.terrorists can we think about real political settlement. It is
:11:11. > :11:13.impossible. Is it really? If you're serious about a political
:11:14. > :11:18.addressed the Assad issue. This is addressed the Assad issue. This is
:11:19. > :11:23.the man whose secretary-general of the UN Ban Ki-moon said that as
:11:24. > :11:27.responsibility for crimes against humanity. We know from different
:11:28. > :11:33.observers of different strikes that of the quarter of a million people
:11:34. > :11:38.who have died in Syria, 75% or more have been killed by the military
:11:39. > :11:43.forces under Assad's control. You talk about the videos you watch, I'm
:11:44. > :11:49.the barrel bombs dropped by the the barrel bombs dropped by the
:11:50. > :11:59.Syrian military on civilians. Given all that, can Assad really be part
:12:00. > :12:06.of the dialogue? Well, first, we have to answer the question of
:12:07. > :12:09.terror. Without answering the question of terror, we cannot answer
:12:10. > :12:16.a question on the future of Syria, and the final one who is going to
:12:17. > :12:20.answer this question will be the Syrian people, not us. We must help
:12:21. > :12:25.them to ensure an environment for the settlement, but not to arrange
:12:26. > :12:34.it. Let's talk about the way diplomacy might work. We've got your
:12:35. > :12:43.Foreign Secretary Mr Sergey Lavrov. I believe tucks and Saudis are
:12:44. > :12:45.involved. In Vienna today. Give me the picture of a sheep of the
:12:46. > :12:51.diplomatic process that you believe could begin the process of
:12:52. > :13:00.stabilisation in Syria? I think the only way is to establish a real
:13:01. > :13:01.information and co-ordination of all information and
:13:02. > :13:03.our activities. This is the premier our activities. This is the premier
:13:04. > :13:15.goal of the efforts that are being spanned by the Russian Federation,
:13:16. > :13:18.the Russian Prime Minister. We have been ensuring we exchange
:13:19. > :13:22.information with Americans and participants. On the military and
:13:23. > :13:27.intelligence level, is that happening? It is happening in a
:13:28. > :13:35.technical and military technical way. Of course we would prefer an
:13:36. > :13:40.sense but we would prefer it in sense but we would prefer it in
:13:41. > :13:44.have been asking our colleagues to have been asking our colleagues to
:13:45. > :13:50.share these goals, these coordinates with us so we could ensure that we
:13:51. > :13:54.are striking at real terrorist targets. Unfortunately, our partners
:13:55. > :13:57.refused to share this information with us. Is it because you have a
:13:58. > :14:01.lack of information and coordinate lack of information and coordinate
:14:02. > :14:05.is that over the last two weeks there have been a number of
:14:06. > :14:07.one can only assume, given the one can only assume, given the
:14:08. > :14:10.situation on the ground, our Russian air strikes hitting hospitals? I've
:14:11. > :14:14.seen reports of two, possibly the seen reports of two, possibly the
:14:15. > :14:20.Syria. Why are you allowing that? We Syria. Why are you allowing that? We
:14:21. > :14:29.have seen lots of reports but tiny evidence. A tiny reference to
:14:30. > :14:35.Syria's sources, so that is why we cannot count on that information. I
:14:36. > :14:39.suggest you do not count on this information during a war. Please be
:14:40. > :14:46.very careful in judging upon this shaky source. We are quite
:14:47. > :14:49.self-confident in choosing the goals self-confident in choosing the goals
:14:50. > :14:58.and our military, they do have enough information for the
:14:59. > :15:08.possibility. The eyewitness accounts I have read including quotes from
:15:09. > :15:16.doctors, from Syrian hospitals, you're categorically denying
:15:17. > :15:22.responsibility, are you? Currently, yes, I have denial of the Russian
:15:23. > :15:27.military and if you examine very carefully this footage, viz video
:15:28. > :15:36.footage, you will see a man standing in the cage and saying something --
:15:37. > :15:39.standing in wreckage. It could be in Yemen or any part of the world. You
:15:40. > :15:44.have to be careful because there is have to be careful because there is
:15:45. > :15:50.a lot of rotten information being spread. At the BBC we are aware of
:15:51. > :15:56.misinformation and are very careful to monitor what we see with great
:15:57. > :16:03.care. Let me ask you about another aspect of this mission that people
:16:04. > :16:09.worry about. There is going to be blowback. You're Ian Russia now all
:16:10. > :16:13.a lot about the danger of backlash, like Afghanistan, which cost you
:16:14. > :16:18.13,000 troops. There may be born in Saudi Arabia and Qatar saying you do
:16:19. > :16:21.not what you're getting into and they are prepared to ship more
:16:22. > :16:24.weapons to due enemies in Syria and weapons to due enemies in Syria and
:16:25. > :16:33.this could be the same kind of quagmire for Russia. Well,
:16:34. > :16:41.yesterday, President Putin delivered a speech in front of participants in
:16:42. > :16:43.front of an international discussion club and he was asked similar
:16:44. > :16:55.questions, what he thinks about the possibility of a shipment of surfers
:16:56. > :17:02.to a missiles, possibly being shipped to terrorist rebels in
:17:03. > :17:09.Syria. President Putin has said that he hoped that would never be the
:17:10. > :17:13.reality, because our planes, our military jets are not the only ones
:17:14. > :17:17.who are flying in the air of Syria and performing their duties. There
:17:18. > :17:18.are lots of other planes from other countries including the United
:17:19. > :17:25.States, France and others that are States, France and others that are
:17:26. > :17:29.taking part in the air strikes so it will be a large disaster to have
:17:30. > :17:35.this kind of shipment to terrorists and we all know that unfortunately
:17:36. > :17:44.the majority of weapons that are being shipped to so-called
:17:45. > :17:51.opposition at the end, it appears to be the property of terrorist units.
:17:52. > :17:55.In this entire situation right now, there is a real risk, is there not,
:17:56. > :17:59.of a military confrontation between the United States and Russia? It may
:18:00. > :18:05.be inadvertent, but the risk is there. I don't think so. Or military
:18:06. > :18:13.are much more wiser than diplomats and politicians -- our military. I
:18:14. > :18:20.hope this coordination would be enough. The document that had been
:18:21. > :18:26.signed will be enough to avoid dangerous military activities. One
:18:27. > :18:30.more specific on Syria then I want to broaden the issue, but on a final
:18:31. > :18:33.Syria point, how close are you working with the Iranians? We know
:18:34. > :18:38.they have thousands of troops on the they have thousands of troops on the
:18:39. > :18:42.from Iran. How close they are you from Iran. How close they are you
:18:43. > :18:47.caught a meeting with them? Well, they are participants of an
:18:48. > :18:55.information centre in Baghdad. You know the about -- you know about the
:18:56. > :19:00.existence of this information centre between Iraq, Iran, Russia and
:19:01. > :19:05.Syria. It is a centre to exchange information for the purposes of
:19:06. > :19:12.performance and the support of Russian military jets. There is any
:19:13. > :19:17.change of information with the Iranians eyed. One cannot think
:19:18. > :19:24.about the sustainable settlement of the situation in Syria and about a
:19:25. > :19:31.successful struggle with the dominating terrorist powers there
:19:32. > :19:38.without the participation of Iran. You win about the change of attitude
:19:39. > :19:47.in Russia, in a needle, towards Mr Putin over many months? -- are you
:19:48. > :19:55.aware? What we hear from the talk today is language which suggests
:19:56. > :20:01.that Nato forces regard Russia as a danger to the stability of Nato.
:20:02. > :20:06.Yesterday, Nato's biggest exercise in more than a decade, the deputy
:20:07. > :20:07.secretary general said we want to deter Russia from even thinking
:20:08. > :20:12.messing with us and I hope the messing with us and I hope the
:20:13. > :20:21.Russians draw appropriate conclusions. What is due reaction to
:20:22. > :20:29.languish like that? -- what is your reaction to language like that? I
:20:30. > :20:31.hope my children would never hear of a tonic coming from a tour like I
:20:32. > :20:33.did in the 1970s. Unfortunately it did in the 1970s. Unfortunately it
:20:34. > :20:36.happened and we are sorry about that happened and we are sorry about that
:20:37. > :20:40.but we're not the country that decided to block all contacts
:20:41. > :20:47.between Moscow and Nato, we are not the country that has decided to
:20:48. > :20:53.freeze down all the dialogue between Washington and Moscow, between
:20:54. > :20:57.London and Moscow, we're not the country that has started the
:20:58. > :21:01.dialogue of sanctions. But with respect, you're the country that is
:21:02. > :21:05.pushing to the very edge of what Nato can regard as acceptable. Your
:21:06. > :21:07.military aircraft in recent days have made incursions over the space
:21:08. > :21:10.of Turkey, a needle member state. We of Turkey, a needle member state. We
:21:11. > :21:16.all know what has happened in Ukraine, the annexation of Crimea,
:21:17. > :21:23.the Russian presence in eastern Ukraine, these are issues which of
:21:24. > :21:24.course Nato has to respond to, that is why the recruiting is much more
:21:25. > :21:27.bigger, rapid reaction force. You're bigger, rapid reaction force. You're
:21:28. > :21:38.seen as a threat today. Nato is being seen as a threat by arson. --
:21:39. > :21:44.by us. It is reciprocal, unfortunate reciprocal feelings and it makes as
:21:45. > :21:51.necessary to take certain measures to ensure our security in front of a
:21:52. > :21:54.very unpredictable Nato behaviour. What do you mean by certain
:21:55. > :22:02.measures? Well, in order to ensure our security and secure security in
:22:03. > :22:11.Europe, you mentioned Ukraine, you mention Crimea, you haven't
:22:12. > :22:17.mentioned the queue, the takeover in Crimea and Nato never made a
:22:18. > :22:24.movement in order to prevent Ukraine from a military takeover. Well, we
:22:25. > :22:27.don't have much time to get into Ukraine in specific detail but there
:22:28. > :22:36.is a big thought to end on, this conversation I think a -- I think
:22:37. > :22:42.has illustrated the degree of tension in Syria. Russia has shown
:22:43. > :22:47.pub in a new way and yet good economy is weak thanks to plummeting
:22:48. > :22:52.oil prices and sanctions on you. The economy is contracting. One expert
:22:53. > :22:54.says that Russia is now weaker than it has been an almost 100 years,
:22:55. > :22:57.economic life. How can you project economic life. How can you project
:22:58. > :23:03.is power on a long-term basis? Do not hold exaggerate the economic
:23:04. > :23:08.weakness of Russia. The economy is not in a good and proper shape. We
:23:09. > :23:16.would like to have a better and more mighty economy that is necessary for
:23:17. > :23:23.our future, but the international economic environment and the lower
:23:24. > :23:28.prices for hydrocarbons is not good for our economy. It is a heck of a
:23:29. > :23:33.risk to play these power games as you are doing when you face grave
:23:34. > :23:43.long-term economic weakness at home. Grave economic weakness, let's say,
:23:44. > :23:58.does not exclude the necessary safety box. Trust me, we have safety
:23:59. > :24:03.resource that would allow asked to have a proper stand in international
:24:04. > :24:07.affairs. We have two end there, but Dmitry Peskov, I thank you very much
:24:08. > :24:12.for being on the programme. Thank you, it was my pleasure.