0:00:20 > 0:00:24Welcome to a special edition of HARDtalk from Bogota Colombia,
0:00:24 > 0:00:27with me Stephen Sackur.
0:00:27 > 0:00:30Not so long ago I would have been apprehensive about walking these
0:00:30 > 0:00:34streets, because Bogota was a city of car bombings and
0:00:34 > 0:00:38kidnappings, fuelled by a political insurgency and drugs trafficking.
0:00:38 > 0:00:42But Colombia has changed, and my guest today is the President of
0:00:42 > 0:00:46this country, Juan Manuel Santos.
0:00:46 > 0:00:50He is the driving force behind a peace process with the armed
0:00:50 > 0:00:54revolutionary movement, the FARC.
0:00:54 > 0:00:57It's difficult, it's divisive, but will it end in success?
0:01:05 > 0:01:07President Juan Manuel Santos, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:01:07 > 0:01:13Thank you.
0:01:13 > 0:01:17You have taken an enormous personal gamble.
0:01:17 > 0:01:20For three years or so, you have been committed to a peace process with
0:01:20 > 0:01:25a movement which you used to call terrorists and bandits.
0:01:25 > 0:01:29Do you feel the pressure that you are under?
0:01:29 > 0:01:32Yes, every day.
0:01:32 > 0:01:36But when you have an objective, and you think and you're convinced
0:01:36 > 0:01:40it's the correct objective and it's the correct thing to do,
0:01:40 > 0:01:44then the pressure is manageable.
0:01:44 > 0:01:48And of course these types of processes are difficult.
0:01:48 > 0:01:52It's much easier to make war.
0:01:52 > 0:01:57Much easier to lead in times of war.
0:01:57 > 0:02:00To make peace, you have to have a different type of leadership.
0:02:00 > 0:02:07You have to be able to convince people to change their minds, their
0:02:07 > 0:02:12attitudes, their way of approaching the enemy or the victimiser,
0:02:12 > 0:02:14and that is much more difficult.
0:02:14 > 0:02:20You say it's easier to make war than to make peace.
0:02:20 > 0:02:22I just wonder when the seed was sown in your mind, this
0:02:22 > 0:02:26idea that you could be the bridge, you could reach out and you could
0:02:26 > 0:02:30begin a dialogue that would take you all the way to lasting peace?
0:02:30 > 0:02:33Because of course you were Defence Minister at a time when
0:02:33 > 0:02:37the government of President Uribe was launching a massive military
0:02:37 > 0:02:43operation against the FARC.
0:02:43 > 0:02:45You were responsible for some famous military victories, but even
0:02:45 > 0:02:51at that time, was it in your mind that you would be a man of peace?
0:02:51 > 0:02:56Even before I was accused by the government of the former President
0:02:56 > 0:03:00to conspire with the guerillas and the paramilitaries against
0:03:00 > 0:03:06the government to reach peace.
0:03:06 > 0:03:10So I have been studying, and I have been involved in this objective,
0:03:10 > 0:03:16of trying to get a negotiated settlement for many years.
0:03:16 > 0:03:26Tell me about that historic handshake with
0:03:26 > 0:03:28the leader of the FARC, in Havana, in September, last September.
0:03:28 > 0:03:29It was a strange photograph.
0:03:29 > 0:03:31You were there with him, Raul Castro,
0:03:31 > 0:03:34President of Cuba overseeing it, and you didn't look very comfortable.
0:03:34 > 0:03:37What were you feeling?
0:03:37 > 0:03:42Well, it's a matter of timing, and I thought it would be the correct time
0:03:42 > 0:03:50to start meeting face to face with the commander of the FARC, to start
0:03:50 > 0:03:58to try to push negotiations at a higher level, which we are doing,
0:03:58 > 0:04:06and that it was the correct moment to meet him.
0:04:06 > 0:04:11Of course he has been our enemy for all my life, and I have been
0:04:11 > 0:04:13his enemy all my life.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16Most Colombians believe he has the blood of hundreds of Colombian
0:04:16 > 0:04:20civilians on his hands.
0:04:20 > 0:04:23The US Government has a bounty of $5 million on his head,
0:04:23 > 0:04:26because they say he is a king pin of the FARC's cocaine trafficking,
0:04:26 > 0:04:29and you shook his hand?
0:04:29 > 0:04:31Yes, because you don't make peace with
0:04:31 > 0:04:36your friends, you make peace with your enemies, and he is the enemy,
0:04:36 > 0:04:41and if we want to end this war, we have to sit down with our enemies,
0:04:41 > 0:04:44and if we have an agreement, shake their hands to seal that agreement.
0:04:44 > 0:04:48And trust them?
0:04:48 > 0:04:51Well, we have to trust them, but at the same time we have to put
0:04:51 > 0:04:56in place the necessary guarantees for them to
0:04:56 > 0:04:58comply with what they agree with.
0:04:58 > 0:05:03Why would you trust people who haven't even released all
0:05:03 > 0:05:05the hostages, the captives they have currently in their charge?
0:05:05 > 0:05:09They have not made, according to many Colombians I have
0:05:09 > 0:05:11spoken to, even the most basic concession that the people
0:05:11 > 0:05:19of this country would have expected of people serious about peace.
0:05:19 > 0:05:22I started this process with a very high level of scepticism,
0:05:22 > 0:05:28and I started this process by not believing a word they said.
0:05:28 > 0:05:33But throughout the process, they have given assurances
0:05:33 > 0:05:37and they have made specific actions that have convinced me that this
0:05:37 > 0:05:45time they want a settlement.
0:05:45 > 0:05:48Before many, many attempts that other Governments
0:05:48 > 0:05:56made with the FARC, they did not have that in mind.
0:05:56 > 0:06:01They used the negotiations to get stronger militarily or
0:06:01 > 0:06:04get stronger politically.
0:06:04 > 0:06:08In this case, today, I am absolutely convinced that piece is possible
0:06:08 > 0:06:14and they want a settlement.
0:06:14 > 0:06:16Some people think you are being naive.
0:06:16 > 0:06:22Not just any people, but really important people, like your former
0:06:22 > 0:06:25political boss, in some ways your mentor, the former President Uribe.
0:06:25 > 0:06:28He says, and I am using his words, that you have
0:06:28 > 0:06:34"cosied up to terrorism".
0:06:34 > 0:06:37He says "Santos, it's not peace that is near, it's surrender to the
0:06:37 > 0:06:37FARC."
0:06:37 > 0:06:40Well, who is giving up their arms and who is keeping the arms?
0:06:40 > 0:06:50If you read what is being negotiated,
0:06:50 > 0:06:57what we are simply accepting, they can leave their arms, disarm, and
0:06:57 > 0:07:06continue their political struggle through legal means, and that is
0:07:06 > 0:07:08what a peace process is all about.
0:07:08 > 0:07:11And they are being subjected to transitional justice, so the most
0:07:11 > 0:07:16responsible will go through transitional justice in order to
0:07:16 > 0:07:19respect the rights of the victims, which is sort of the centre of the
0:07:19 > 0:07:22solution of this conflict, that...
0:07:22 > 0:07:24Well, you are right.
0:07:24 > 0:07:29It's the centre of the debate right now in this country, this idea
0:07:29 > 0:07:35of transitional justice, because the truth is, if you look at the
0:07:35 > 0:07:38detail of the agreement, the draft that you've come up with, those who
0:07:38 > 0:07:41testify, confess, to violent activity,
0:07:41 > 0:07:46even extraordinarily violent activities, will avoid prison.
0:07:46 > 0:07:48They will have "alternative justice".
0:07:48 > 0:07:51Maybe their movements will be controlled for five years, but
0:07:51 > 0:07:56they will not be put behind bars.
0:07:56 > 0:08:03And what did the UK do with the IRA?
0:08:03 > 0:08:06What has all the countries that have negotiated a peace process
0:08:06 > 0:08:09like we are negotiating, this is the last armed conflict in the whole
0:08:09 > 0:08:13of the western hemisphere.
0:08:13 > 0:08:17One of the difficulties in negotiations with
0:08:17 > 0:08:21the FARC was they were saying, with a good argument, "We don't want
0:08:21 > 0:08:28to be the first guerilla movement to give up our arms and go to jail,
0:08:28 > 0:08:31and be submitted by a court that we don't accept".
0:08:31 > 0:08:33Now they are accepting the court.
0:08:33 > 0:08:34They are being investigated.
0:08:34 > 0:08:38They are being judged.
0:08:38 > 0:08:40They are being condemned and they have to pay sanction.
0:08:40 > 0:08:46But in President Uribe's words they are getting away with murder.
0:08:46 > 0:08:52Well, if you analyse what President Uribe has been saying,
0:08:52 > 0:08:54you will come to the conclusion that he's being a bit emotional,
0:08:54 > 0:08:56and that what he's saying...
0:08:56 > 0:08:59Well, the Colombian people are emotional?
0:08:59 > 0:09:00Of course they are emotional.
0:09:00 > 0:09:02220,000 people died in this war.
0:09:02 > 0:09:07It lasted 50 years, people are emotional.
0:09:07 > 0:09:13But that's exactly why we are trying to reach a peace agreement,
0:09:13 > 0:09:18so we don't have to have 220,000 more victims.
0:09:18 > 0:09:24War is a factory of victims and I want to stop that factory.
0:09:24 > 0:09:33We have suffered too much in this country, and we are negotiating in
0:09:33 > 0:09:37a position of strength, and if you analyse what we have agreed up to
0:09:37 > 0:09:39today, this is a very good package.
0:09:39 > 0:09:48A poll of Colombians in August, admittedly a few months ago, but not
0:09:48 > 0:09:51so long ago, more than 90% of those polled wanted the FARC's key leaders
0:09:51 > 0:09:53to go to jail, to be behind bars.
0:09:53 > 0:09:56Of course.
0:09:56 > 0:10:00I mean, this is something that I understand very well.
0:10:00 > 0:10:03Not only that, they don't want the FARC to enter politics, they want
0:10:03 > 0:10:08every FARC member to go to jail.
0:10:08 > 0:10:16This is a very normal human reaction, but the problem here is to
0:10:16 > 0:10:22get the whole package, and you tell the people, listen, there is a price
0:10:22 > 0:10:25to pay, but this is the package for peace, and this is the package that
0:10:26 > 0:10:27means war for 20 or 30 more years.
0:10:27 > 0:10:33So...
0:10:33 > 0:10:35The people of Colombia will overwhelmingly, when I submit this
0:10:35 > 0:10:39to a plebiscite, which I am going to do, because I have this commitment,
0:10:39 > 0:10:43I am absolutely convinced they will be overwhelmingly in favour of
0:10:44 > 0:10:46peace.
0:10:46 > 0:10:50So your message to the people of your country is the key leaders, and
0:10:50 > 0:10:53we have talked about Timochenko, whose hand you shook, who we know
0:10:53 > 0:10:57was a revered military leader of the FARC, and others like Ivan Marquez,
0:10:57 > 0:11:01you are saying to me that they are more likely to end up
0:11:01 > 0:11:03in the Colombian Congress as politicians, than they are to be
0:11:03 > 0:11:07in a Colombian jail?
0:11:07 > 0:11:10No, if we reach a final agreement, yes, of course.
0:11:10 > 0:11:17Would you welcome them into Colombian politics?
0:11:17 > 0:11:24Well, the whole, the whole idea of a peace process is to have the people
0:11:24 > 0:11:27who are in arms, to give up their arms, and continue doing their
0:11:27 > 0:11:30politics through legal means, so of course they will be welcomed, the
0:11:30 > 0:11:35FARC, into Colombian politics, because the peace process is exactly
0:11:35 > 0:11:37about that issue, of leaving the arms, politics with no violence.
0:11:37 > 0:11:44That is the whole idea.
0:11:44 > 0:11:47For the victims, and let us not forget I think the
0:11:47 > 0:11:50government here recognises there are millions, up to six or seven million
0:11:50 > 0:11:51victims of one sort or another.
0:11:51 > 0:11:527.5 million.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55Right, 7.5 million victims.
0:11:55 > 0:11:56Yes.
0:11:56 > 0:12:00To them, what is your message?
0:12:00 > 0:12:03Is it that you have defeated the FARC,
0:12:03 > 0:12:06that the FARC have surrendered, or simply that you and the FARC have
0:12:06 > 0:12:08come to a political arrangement?
0:12:08 > 0:12:12It's in between.
0:12:12 > 0:12:16The FARC has - is defeated in the sense that they now accept and they
0:12:16 > 0:12:20realise that they will never win.
0:12:20 > 0:12:24They can continue their armed struggle for many more
0:12:24 > 0:12:30years because our geography, our conditions will allow that.
0:12:30 > 0:12:34But at the same time, I am giving them what in the military jargon,
0:12:34 > 0:12:38you call a golden bridge, OK.
0:12:38 > 0:12:42You can come out of this with dignity,
0:12:42 > 0:12:45and dignity is a key word, and that is the settlement we are trying to
0:12:45 > 0:12:48do, to finish a war of 50 years.
0:12:48 > 0:12:56If you analyse the rest of the history of the human planet,
0:12:56 > 0:13:02and the peace processes that have been negotiated, you will realise
0:13:02 > 0:13:05this is the key issue, and the key objective, and that is
0:13:05 > 0:13:10what we are trying to achieve.
0:13:10 > 0:13:19You have talked about emotion, and you have talked about dignity.
0:13:19 > 0:13:22I wonder, on a personal level, how you feel about the victims, those
0:13:22 > 0:13:26whose parents were perhaps murdered, those who were held in the jungle
0:13:26 > 0:13:28for eight years, tied to a tree.
0:13:28 > 0:13:30Those who saw their own children wiped out in massacres of villages.
0:13:30 > 0:13:34How do you explain to them that you believe it is important to give
0:13:34 > 0:13:36the FARC dignity?
0:13:36 > 0:13:42The victims are my strongest allies.
0:13:42 > 0:13:44The source, the principle source of the support I have,
0:13:44 > 0:13:49are the 7.5 million victims.
0:13:49 > 0:13:53I talk to them every single day, and talking to them is what gives
0:13:53 > 0:13:58me more energy to continue and persevere in the peace process.
0:13:58 > 0:14:07They tell me, "No, listen, I have been a victim,
0:14:07 > 0:14:11I know what it feels to be a victim, and I don't want other people to
0:14:11 > 0:14:12suffer as I have suffered.
0:14:12 > 0:14:13Continue President Santos.
0:14:13 > 0:14:14Don't give up."
0:14:14 > 0:14:16And they have been a tremendous source of support
0:14:16 > 0:14:19in this very difficult process.
0:14:19 > 0:14:24One big question is where the Americans sit on this.
0:14:24 > 0:14:27Now President Obama has hosted you at the White House, he has praised
0:14:27 > 0:14:30your efforts, he thinks it is great you are trying to make peace.
0:14:30 > 0:14:32But the American, they have at least 70 names of FARC
0:14:32 > 0:14:38fighters, leaders, who they want extradited to the United States, to
0:14:38 > 0:14:45face very serious charges of drugs trafficking, violence, whatever.
0:14:45 > 0:14:47If they pursue those names, when you have made peace with
0:14:47 > 0:14:50the FARC, will you extradite them to the United States?
0:14:50 > 0:14:52No, they know I am not going to extradite these people
0:14:52 > 0:14:55if we reach a peace agreement.
0:14:55 > 0:15:00But there is a $5 million bounty on Timochenko's head.
0:15:00 > 0:15:03That $5 million bounty on Timochenko will have to disappear, because I am
0:15:03 > 0:15:05not going to extradite him.
0:15:05 > 0:15:06You're going to protect him?
0:15:06 > 0:15:06No, but...
0:15:06 > 0:15:09It's extraordinary.
0:15:09 > 0:15:13It's not extraordinary.
0:15:13 > 0:15:18It's simply - can you imagine, a guerilla leader to negotiate
0:15:18 > 0:15:22a peace process, to end up with a life prison sentence in the US?
0:15:22 > 0:15:27This is absurd.
0:15:27 > 0:15:30With all due respect, it's exactly what your government did do for some
0:15:30 > 0:15:34of the paramilitary leaders, who you had a process of demobilisation
0:15:34 > 0:15:38with, and it ended up some of them were sent to America for trial.
0:15:38 > 0:15:44That was a decision of my former boss, President Uribe.
0:15:44 > 0:15:53My decision here is we reach an agreement, and I stand by this
0:15:53 > 0:15:56agreement, and I will respect the items in the agreement, and one of
0:15:56 > 0:15:59them, of course, is to not extradite the leaders of the FARC to the
0:15:59 > 0:16:03United States to end up all their lives in an American jail.
0:16:03 > 0:16:06Right now, the FARC has a ceasefire, they have also said they have
0:16:06 > 0:16:07stopped buying arms.
0:16:07 > 0:16:10They said they have stop training their cadres,
0:16:10 > 0:16:12they say they are absolutely committed to this ceasefire.
0:16:12 > 0:16:15You, on the other hand, your military is not right now
0:16:15 > 0:16:18in a ceasefire at all.
0:16:18 > 0:16:21You're still conducting operations, but you have said that you will
0:16:21 > 0:16:22consider a ceasefire very soon.
0:16:22 > 0:16:24Yes.
0:16:24 > 0:16:28Tell me now, when will you implement a ceasefire?
0:16:28 > 0:16:32As soon as we negotiate with the FARC all
0:16:32 > 0:16:38the items that will make the ceasefire an effective ceasefire.
0:16:38 > 0:16:44I have told them, let's accelerate the negotiation, and we can do that,
0:16:44 > 0:16:48if they want, in two or three weeks, and I am willing to declare
0:16:48 > 0:16:54a ceasefire as soon as possible.
0:16:54 > 0:16:59The only condition is to negotiate all the issues that surround
0:16:59 > 0:17:02an effective ceasefire, and that is what I have been offering.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04We have talked about trust.
0:17:04 > 0:17:07If you are convinced that the FARC is absolutely serious
0:17:07 > 0:17:10and committed to their ceasefire, isn't it incumbent
0:17:10 > 0:17:12on you now to return the favour?
0:17:12 > 0:17:17To ceasefire, otherwise, you could have a situation where
0:17:17 > 0:17:19the FARC fighters aren't fighting and your military are going
0:17:19 > 0:17:23into the jungle and blasting away, killing hundreds of them.
0:17:23 > 0:17:28First of all, my responses to that is I will not bomb you,
0:17:28 > 0:17:33bomb your camps, but I will continue to go after you, as long
0:17:33 > 0:17:36as you continue to extort people.
0:17:36 > 0:17:38Extortion, they live out of extortion, they have not kidnapped.
0:17:38 > 0:17:42They stopped kidnapping.
0:17:42 > 0:17:46They live out of illegal mining.
0:17:46 > 0:17:50As long as they do anything illegal, well, my armed forces are going to
0:17:50 > 0:17:52go after them.
0:17:52 > 0:17:55That's why I said to them, let's negotiate the whole package
0:17:55 > 0:17:57of a ceasefire, where everything should be taken into account.
0:17:57 > 0:18:02I am willing to declare a ceasefire as soon as possible, as soon
0:18:02 > 0:18:04as we negotiate the whole package.
0:18:04 > 0:18:11The big question for Colombians is how this plays out early next year.
0:18:11 > 0:18:18You have said you want a deal by the end of March 2016.
0:18:18 > 0:18:21We have agreed with FARC by 23rd March we should sign
0:18:21 > 0:18:22the final agreement.
0:18:22 > 0:18:24That is the final permanent lasting peace for Colombia,
0:18:24 > 0:18:28If we reach that agreement, yes.
0:18:28 > 0:18:32But the point is you have also, you have committed to what you call
0:18:32 > 0:18:35a plebiscite, or a referendum, where the final decision will be
0:18:35 > 0:18:36with the people of this nation.
0:18:36 > 0:18:37Yes.
0:18:37 > 0:18:39So when will that happen?
0:18:39 > 0:18:42That will happen after we sign the final agreement,
0:18:42 > 0:18:47if we sign the final agreement around March, let's say,
0:18:47 > 0:18:50then the plebiscite would be the done a couple of months afterwards.
0:18:50 > 0:18:55We need to have time to explain to the people what
0:18:55 > 0:18:57the agreement is about, and the people can say "No, we don't
0:18:57 > 0:18:59like it", then there is no deal.
0:18:59 > 0:19:00After all of this...
0:19:00 > 0:19:02Yes.
0:19:02 > 0:19:09The years of negotiation, are you saying this is vital
0:19:09 > 0:19:13for the future of your nation, you're telling me that if the public
0:19:13 > 0:19:14vote against it you will walk away?
0:19:14 > 0:19:17Yes, because that's the commitment I made since the beginning.
0:19:17 > 0:19:17The people...
0:19:17 > 0:19:20With respect, Mr President, you will have to resign at that point.
0:19:20 > 0:19:24Well, I will be in serious difficulty,
0:19:24 > 0:19:26but I am absolutely convinced that the overwhelming majority
0:19:26 > 0:19:31of the Colombians will support me, will support this peace process.
0:19:31 > 0:19:34Seems to me your biggest problem right now isn't with the FARC, it's
0:19:34 > 0:19:40with former President Uribe, who is going to mass all of his resources -
0:19:40 > 0:19:47and he has a lot of resources and a lot of political friends - and he is
0:19:47 > 0:19:50going to fight you tooth and nail in that referendum process,
0:19:50 > 0:19:53because he says " You are surrendering to terrorism."
0:19:53 > 0:19:57The people will decide, and I am again, I will repeat, absolutely
0:19:57 > 0:20:05convinced that the overwhelming majority of the people will back me,
0:20:05 > 0:20:09as they have been backing the peace process since the beginning.
0:20:09 > 0:20:13Sometimes with a high degree of scepticism, but the last poll,
0:20:13 > 0:20:16now you mentioned the polls, the last poll,
0:20:16 > 0:20:1982% of the Colombians said they are interested and they would be...
0:20:19 > 0:20:21Interested, sure.
0:20:21 > 0:20:24And they would support the signing of a peace process, because they
0:20:24 > 0:20:25think they will benefit.
0:20:25 > 0:20:26A final thought.
0:20:26 > 0:20:29Drugs.
0:20:29 > 0:20:33It seems to me that you're sending signals as President of Columbia,
0:20:33 > 0:20:36that you believe the American strategy in Latin America,
0:20:36 > 0:20:40the war on drugs, needs to be completely rethought.
0:20:40 > 0:20:42You made a speech not so long ago where you said
0:20:42 > 0:20:46"How do I explain to a peasant in Colombia that I have to put him
0:20:46 > 0:20:50in prison for growing marijuana, whereas in Colorado or Washington
0:20:50 > 0:20:54State in the US it's legal to buy that very same marijuana?
0:20:54 > 0:20:56The world needs an effective, fresher, more creative focus to win
0:20:56 > 0:20:57this campaign against drugs."
0:20:57 > 0:21:01It's not only the US, it's the world.
0:21:01 > 0:21:0440 years ago, the United Nations launched the war on drugs, and
0:21:04 > 0:21:09the war on drugs has not been won.
0:21:09 > 0:21:12We are the country who has suffered the most of any country
0:21:12 > 0:21:15in the world on this war on drugs.
0:21:15 > 0:21:18We have sacrificed our best leaders, our best politicians,
0:21:18 > 0:21:23our best journalists, our best judges, our best policemen,
0:21:23 > 0:21:26and we are still the number one provider of cocaine to the world.
0:21:26 > 0:21:29This is a tremendous problem.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32The agreement with the FARC has a very important item, which is
0:21:32 > 0:21:37in a way they switch sides.
0:21:37 > 0:21:41They protect and they finance themselves, through
0:21:41 > 0:21:45drug money, and they are now committed to helping the government
0:21:45 > 0:21:48do away with the illegal crops, substituting for legal crops, and do
0:21:48 > 0:21:50away with labs and the corridors.
0:21:50 > 0:21:59This is a major, major breakthrough in the war on drugs, but at the same
0:21:59 > 0:22:02time we need to sort of reengineer the approach on the war on drugs,
0:22:02 > 0:22:06because we have not been effective.
0:22:06 > 0:22:08You have, in the recent past, signalled to
0:22:08 > 0:22:10the United States you want change.
0:22:10 > 0:22:12You are no longer spraying the coca crops.
0:22:12 > 0:22:15The United States is not happy about that, but you said, you know what?
0:22:15 > 0:22:16Some people in the United States.
0:22:16 > 0:22:17Others are very happy.
0:22:17 > 0:22:22But the bottom line this is this.
0:22:22 > 0:22:24You, over the last decades, have taken billions and billions
0:22:24 > 0:22:26of US dollars to join them in fight against drugs.
0:22:26 > 0:22:29Are you saying that in the future, that will no longer be
0:22:29 > 0:22:32your strategy?
0:22:32 > 0:22:34We're pursuing a more effective strategy.
0:22:34 > 0:22:35For example the spraying.
0:22:35 > 0:22:40The spraying.
0:22:40 > 0:22:44We sprayed more in the last - before October when I stopped it, in the
0:22:44 > 0:22:47last two years, than ever before, and the coca production went up.
0:22:47 > 0:22:47What is...
0:22:47 > 0:22:48So what is the solution?
0:22:48 > 0:22:51To legalise drugs?
0:22:51 > 0:22:53Because some Latin American leaders are talking about legalisation.
0:22:53 > 0:22:57The solution is exactly what we are trying to convince the world to do,
0:22:57 > 0:23:02because this is not an issue for one single country.
0:23:02 > 0:23:08A single country, Colombia, cannot by itself - this is
0:23:08 > 0:23:10a multinational problem, and has to be approached multi-nationally.
0:23:10 > 0:23:14Is legalisation a part of the solution?
0:23:14 > 0:23:16Legalisation could be part of the solution.
0:23:16 > 0:23:17Decriminalisation is certainly part of the solution.
0:23:17 > 0:23:22A more effective approach.
0:23:22 > 0:23:29Taking away the illegal money from those mafias, those organised
0:23:29 > 0:23:33crime that are so powerful in Mexico and Central America, in Europe,
0:23:33 > 0:23:38in the Middle East.
0:23:38 > 0:23:43This is an approach that has certainly not
0:23:43 > 0:23:48been effective, and we, I am sorry to be so presumptuous, but we have,
0:23:48 > 0:23:50the Colombians, more authority to talk about this issue than any
0:23:51 > 0:23:52other country in the world.
0:23:52 > 0:23:54President Santos, thank you very much for being on HARDtalk.
0:23:54 > 0:23:58Thank you.
0:24:29 > 0:24:30An