Juan Manuel Santos, President of Colombia

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0:00:20 > 0:00:24Welcome to a special edition of HARDtalk from Bogota Colombia,

0:00:24 > 0:00:27with me Stephen Sackur.

0:00:27 > 0:00:30Not so long ago I would have been apprehensive about walking these

0:00:30 > 0:00:34streets, because Bogota was a city of car bombings and

0:00:34 > 0:00:38kidnappings, fuelled by a political insurgency and drugs trafficking.

0:00:38 > 0:00:42But Colombia has changed, and my guest today is the President of

0:00:42 > 0:00:46this country, Juan Manuel Santos.

0:00:46 > 0:00:50He is the driving force behind a peace process with the armed

0:00:50 > 0:00:54revolutionary movement, the FARC.

0:00:54 > 0:00:57It's difficult, it's divisive, but will it end in success?

0:01:05 > 0:01:07President Juan Manuel Santos, welcome to HARDtalk.

0:01:07 > 0:01:13Thank you.

0:01:13 > 0:01:17You have taken an enormous personal gamble.

0:01:17 > 0:01:20For three years or so, you have been committed to a peace process with

0:01:20 > 0:01:25a movement which you used to call terrorists and bandits.

0:01:25 > 0:01:29Do you feel the pressure that you are under?

0:01:29 > 0:01:32Yes, every day.

0:01:32 > 0:01:36But when you have an objective, and you think and you're convinced

0:01:36 > 0:01:40it's the correct objective and it's the correct thing to do,

0:01:40 > 0:01:44then the pressure is manageable.

0:01:44 > 0:01:48And of course these types of processes are difficult.

0:01:48 > 0:01:52It's much easier to make war.

0:01:52 > 0:01:57Much easier to lead in times of war.

0:01:57 > 0:02:00To make peace, you have to have a different type of leadership.

0:02:00 > 0:02:07You have to be able to convince people to change their minds, their

0:02:07 > 0:02:12attitudes, their way of approaching the enemy or the victimiser,

0:02:12 > 0:02:14and that is much more difficult.

0:02:14 > 0:02:20You say it's easier to make war than to make peace.

0:02:20 > 0:02:22I just wonder when the seed was sown in your mind, this

0:02:22 > 0:02:26idea that you could be the bridge, you could reach out and you could

0:02:26 > 0:02:30begin a dialogue that would take you all the way to lasting peace?

0:02:30 > 0:02:33Because of course you were Defence Minister at a time when

0:02:33 > 0:02:37the government of President Uribe was launching a massive military

0:02:37 > 0:02:43operation against the FARC.

0:02:43 > 0:02:45You were responsible for some famous military victories, but even

0:02:45 > 0:02:51at that time, was it in your mind that you would be a man of peace?

0:02:51 > 0:02:56Even before I was accused by the government of the former President

0:02:56 > 0:03:00to conspire with the guerillas and the paramilitaries against

0:03:00 > 0:03:06the government to reach peace.

0:03:06 > 0:03:10So I have been studying, and I have been involved in this objective,

0:03:10 > 0:03:16of trying to get a negotiated settlement for many years.

0:03:16 > 0:03:26Tell me about that historic handshake with

0:03:26 > 0:03:28the leader of the FARC, in Havana, in September, last September.

0:03:28 > 0:03:29It was a strange photograph.

0:03:29 > 0:03:31You were there with him, Raul Castro,

0:03:31 > 0:03:34President of Cuba overseeing it, and you didn't look very comfortable.

0:03:34 > 0:03:37What were you feeling?

0:03:37 > 0:03:42Well, it's a matter of timing, and I thought it would be the correct time

0:03:42 > 0:03:50to start meeting face to face with the commander of the FARC, to start

0:03:50 > 0:03:58to try to push negotiations at a higher level, which we are doing,

0:03:58 > 0:04:06and that it was the correct moment to meet him.

0:04:06 > 0:04:11Of course he has been our enemy for all my life, and I have been

0:04:11 > 0:04:13his enemy all my life.

0:04:13 > 0:04:16Most Colombians believe he has the blood of hundreds of Colombian

0:04:16 > 0:04:20civilians on his hands.

0:04:20 > 0:04:23The US Government has a bounty of $5 million on his head,

0:04:23 > 0:04:26because they say he is a king pin of the FARC's cocaine trafficking,

0:04:26 > 0:04:29and you shook his hand?

0:04:29 > 0:04:31Yes, because you don't make peace with

0:04:31 > 0:04:36your friends, you make peace with your enemies, and he is the enemy,

0:04:36 > 0:04:41and if we want to end this war, we have to sit down with our enemies,

0:04:41 > 0:04:44and if we have an agreement, shake their hands to seal that agreement.

0:04:44 > 0:04:48And trust them?

0:04:48 > 0:04:51Well, we have to trust them, but at the same time we have to put

0:04:51 > 0:04:56in place the necessary guarantees for them to

0:04:56 > 0:04:58comply with what they agree with.

0:04:58 > 0:05:03Why would you trust people who haven't even released all

0:05:03 > 0:05:05the hostages, the captives they have currently in their charge?

0:05:05 > 0:05:09They have not made, according to many Colombians I have

0:05:09 > 0:05:11spoken to, even the most basic concession that the people

0:05:11 > 0:05:19of this country would have expected of people serious about peace.

0:05:19 > 0:05:22I started this process with a very high level of scepticism,

0:05:22 > 0:05:28and I started this process by not believing a word they said.

0:05:28 > 0:05:33But throughout the process, they have given assurances

0:05:33 > 0:05:37and they have made specific actions that have convinced me that this

0:05:37 > 0:05:45time they want a settlement.

0:05:45 > 0:05:48Before many, many attempts that other Governments

0:05:48 > 0:05:56made with the FARC, they did not have that in mind.

0:05:56 > 0:06:01They used the negotiations to get stronger militarily or

0:06:01 > 0:06:04get stronger politically.

0:06:04 > 0:06:08In this case, today, I am absolutely convinced that piece is possible

0:06:08 > 0:06:14and they want a settlement.

0:06:14 > 0:06:16Some people think you are being naive.

0:06:16 > 0:06:22Not just any people, but really important people, like your former

0:06:22 > 0:06:25political boss, in some ways your mentor, the former President Uribe.

0:06:25 > 0:06:28He says, and I am using his words, that you have

0:06:28 > 0:06:34"cosied up to terrorism".

0:06:34 > 0:06:37He says "Santos, it's not peace that is near, it's surrender to the

0:06:37 > 0:06:37FARC."

0:06:37 > 0:06:40Well, who is giving up their arms and who is keeping the arms?

0:06:40 > 0:06:50If you read what is being negotiated,

0:06:50 > 0:06:57what we are simply accepting, they can leave their arms, disarm, and

0:06:57 > 0:07:06continue their political struggle through legal means, and that is

0:07:06 > 0:07:08what a peace process is all about.

0:07:08 > 0:07:11And they are being subjected to transitional justice, so the most

0:07:11 > 0:07:16responsible will go through transitional justice in order to

0:07:16 > 0:07:19respect the rights of the victims, which is sort of the centre of the

0:07:19 > 0:07:22solution of this conflict, that...

0:07:22 > 0:07:24Well, you are right.

0:07:24 > 0:07:29It's the centre of the debate right now in this country, this idea

0:07:29 > 0:07:35of transitional justice, because the truth is, if you look at the

0:07:35 > 0:07:38detail of the agreement, the draft that you've come up with, those who

0:07:38 > 0:07:41testify, confess, to violent activity,

0:07:41 > 0:07:46even extraordinarily violent activities, will avoid prison.

0:07:46 > 0:07:48They will have "alternative justice".

0:07:48 > 0:07:51Maybe their movements will be controlled for five years, but

0:07:51 > 0:07:56they will not be put behind bars.

0:07:56 > 0:08:03And what did the UK do with the IRA?

0:08:03 > 0:08:06What has all the countries that have negotiated a peace process

0:08:06 > 0:08:09like we are negotiating, this is the last armed conflict in the whole

0:08:09 > 0:08:13of the western hemisphere.

0:08:13 > 0:08:17One of the difficulties in negotiations with

0:08:17 > 0:08:21the FARC was they were saying, with a good argument, "We don't want

0:08:21 > 0:08:28to be the first guerilla movement to give up our arms and go to jail,

0:08:28 > 0:08:31and be submitted by a court that we don't accept".

0:08:31 > 0:08:33Now they are accepting the court.

0:08:33 > 0:08:34They are being investigated.

0:08:34 > 0:08:38They are being judged.

0:08:38 > 0:08:40They are being condemned and they have to pay sanction.

0:08:40 > 0:08:46But in President Uribe's words they are getting away with murder.

0:08:46 > 0:08:52Well, if you analyse what President Uribe has been saying,

0:08:52 > 0:08:54you will come to the conclusion that he's being a bit emotional,

0:08:54 > 0:08:56and that what he's saying...

0:08:56 > 0:08:59Well, the Colombian people are emotional?

0:08:59 > 0:09:00Of course they are emotional.

0:09:00 > 0:09:02220,000 people died in this war.

0:09:02 > 0:09:07It lasted 50 years, people are emotional.

0:09:07 > 0:09:13But that's exactly why we are trying to reach a peace agreement,

0:09:13 > 0:09:18so we don't have to have 220,000 more victims.

0:09:18 > 0:09:24War is a factory of victims and I want to stop that factory.

0:09:24 > 0:09:33We have suffered too much in this country, and we are negotiating in

0:09:33 > 0:09:37a position of strength, and if you analyse what we have agreed up to

0:09:37 > 0:09:39today, this is a very good package.

0:09:39 > 0:09:48A poll of Colombians in August, admittedly a few months ago, but not

0:09:48 > 0:09:51so long ago, more than 90% of those polled wanted the FARC's key leaders

0:09:51 > 0:09:53to go to jail, to be behind bars.

0:09:53 > 0:09:56Of course.

0:09:56 > 0:10:00I mean, this is something that I understand very well.

0:10:00 > 0:10:03Not only that, they don't want the FARC to enter politics, they want

0:10:03 > 0:10:08every FARC member to go to jail.

0:10:08 > 0:10:16This is a very normal human reaction, but the problem here is to

0:10:16 > 0:10:22get the whole package, and you tell the people, listen, there is a price

0:10:22 > 0:10:25to pay, but this is the package for peace, and this is the package that

0:10:26 > 0:10:27means war for 20 or 30 more years.

0:10:27 > 0:10:33So...

0:10:33 > 0:10:35The people of Colombia will overwhelmingly, when I submit this

0:10:35 > 0:10:39to a plebiscite, which I am going to do, because I have this commitment,

0:10:39 > 0:10:43I am absolutely convinced they will be overwhelmingly in favour of

0:10:44 > 0:10:46peace.

0:10:46 > 0:10:50So your message to the people of your country is the key leaders, and

0:10:50 > 0:10:53we have talked about Timochenko, whose hand you shook, who we know

0:10:53 > 0:10:57was a revered military leader of the FARC, and others like Ivan Marquez,

0:10:57 > 0:11:01you are saying to me that they are more likely to end up

0:11:01 > 0:11:03in the Colombian Congress as politicians, than they are to be

0:11:03 > 0:11:07in a Colombian jail?

0:11:07 > 0:11:10No, if we reach a final agreement, yes, of course.

0:11:10 > 0:11:17Would you welcome them into Colombian politics?

0:11:17 > 0:11:24Well, the whole, the whole idea of a peace process is to have the people

0:11:24 > 0:11:27who are in arms, to give up their arms, and continue doing their

0:11:27 > 0:11:30politics through legal means, so of course they will be welcomed, the

0:11:30 > 0:11:35FARC, into Colombian politics, because the peace process is exactly

0:11:35 > 0:11:37about that issue, of leaving the arms, politics with no violence.

0:11:37 > 0:11:44That is the whole idea.

0:11:44 > 0:11:47For the victims, and let us not forget I think the

0:11:47 > 0:11:50government here recognises there are millions, up to six or seven million

0:11:50 > 0:11:51victims of one sort or another.

0:11:51 > 0:11:527.5 million.

0:11:52 > 0:11:55Right, 7.5 million victims.

0:11:55 > 0:11:56Yes.

0:11:56 > 0:12:00To them, what is your message?

0:12:00 > 0:12:03Is it that you have defeated the FARC,

0:12:03 > 0:12:06that the FARC have surrendered, or simply that you and the FARC have

0:12:06 > 0:12:08come to a political arrangement?

0:12:08 > 0:12:12It's in between.

0:12:12 > 0:12:16The FARC has - is defeated in the sense that they now accept and they

0:12:16 > 0:12:20realise that they will never win.

0:12:20 > 0:12:24They can continue their armed struggle for many more

0:12:24 > 0:12:30years because our geography, our conditions will allow that.

0:12:30 > 0:12:34But at the same time, I am giving them what in the military jargon,

0:12:34 > 0:12:38you call a golden bridge, OK.

0:12:38 > 0:12:42You can come out of this with dignity,

0:12:42 > 0:12:45and dignity is a key word, and that is the settlement we are trying to

0:12:45 > 0:12:48do, to finish a war of 50 years.

0:12:48 > 0:12:56If you analyse the rest of the history of the human planet,

0:12:56 > 0:13:02and the peace processes that have been negotiated, you will realise

0:13:02 > 0:13:05this is the key issue, and the key objective, and that is

0:13:05 > 0:13:10what we are trying to achieve.

0:13:10 > 0:13:19You have talked about emotion, and you have talked about dignity.

0:13:19 > 0:13:22I wonder, on a personal level, how you feel about the victims, those

0:13:22 > 0:13:26whose parents were perhaps murdered, those who were held in the jungle

0:13:26 > 0:13:28for eight years, tied to a tree.

0:13:28 > 0:13:30Those who saw their own children wiped out in massacres of villages.

0:13:30 > 0:13:34How do you explain to them that you believe it is important to give

0:13:34 > 0:13:36the FARC dignity?

0:13:36 > 0:13:42The victims are my strongest allies.

0:13:42 > 0:13:44The source, the principle source of the support I have,

0:13:44 > 0:13:49are the 7.5 million victims.

0:13:49 > 0:13:53I talk to them every single day, and talking to them is what gives

0:13:53 > 0:13:58me more energy to continue and persevere in the peace process.

0:13:58 > 0:14:07They tell me, "No, listen, I have been a victim,

0:14:07 > 0:14:11I know what it feels to be a victim, and I don't want other people to

0:14:11 > 0:14:12suffer as I have suffered.

0:14:12 > 0:14:13Continue President Santos.

0:14:13 > 0:14:14Don't give up."

0:14:14 > 0:14:16And they have been a tremendous source of support

0:14:16 > 0:14:19in this very difficult process.

0:14:19 > 0:14:24One big question is where the Americans sit on this.

0:14:24 > 0:14:27Now President Obama has hosted you at the White House, he has praised

0:14:27 > 0:14:30your efforts, he thinks it is great you are trying to make peace.

0:14:30 > 0:14:32But the American, they have at least 70 names of FARC

0:14:32 > 0:14:38fighters, leaders, who they want extradited to the United States, to

0:14:38 > 0:14:45face very serious charges of drugs trafficking, violence, whatever.

0:14:45 > 0:14:47If they pursue those names, when you have made peace with

0:14:47 > 0:14:50the FARC, will you extradite them to the United States?

0:14:50 > 0:14:52No, they know I am not going to extradite these people

0:14:52 > 0:14:55if we reach a peace agreement.

0:14:55 > 0:15:00But there is a $5 million bounty on Timochenko's head.

0:15:00 > 0:15:03That $5 million bounty on Timochenko will have to disappear, because I am

0:15:03 > 0:15:05not going to extradite him.

0:15:05 > 0:15:06You're going to protect him?

0:15:06 > 0:15:06No, but...

0:15:06 > 0:15:09It's extraordinary.

0:15:09 > 0:15:13It's not extraordinary.

0:15:13 > 0:15:18It's simply - can you imagine, a guerilla leader to negotiate

0:15:18 > 0:15:22a peace process, to end up with a life prison sentence in the US?

0:15:22 > 0:15:27This is absurd.

0:15:27 > 0:15:30With all due respect, it's exactly what your government did do for some

0:15:30 > 0:15:34of the paramilitary leaders, who you had a process of demobilisation

0:15:34 > 0:15:38with, and it ended up some of them were sent to America for trial.

0:15:38 > 0:15:44That was a decision of my former boss, President Uribe.

0:15:44 > 0:15:53My decision here is we reach an agreement, and I stand by this

0:15:53 > 0:15:56agreement, and I will respect the items in the agreement, and one of

0:15:56 > 0:15:59them, of course, is to not extradite the leaders of the FARC to the

0:15:59 > 0:16:03United States to end up all their lives in an American jail.

0:16:03 > 0:16:06Right now, the FARC has a ceasefire, they have also said they have

0:16:06 > 0:16:07stopped buying arms.

0:16:07 > 0:16:10They said they have stop training their cadres,

0:16:10 > 0:16:12they say they are absolutely committed to this ceasefire.

0:16:12 > 0:16:15You, on the other hand, your military is not right now

0:16:15 > 0:16:18in a ceasefire at all.

0:16:18 > 0:16:21You're still conducting operations, but you have said that you will

0:16:21 > 0:16:22consider a ceasefire very soon.

0:16:22 > 0:16:24Yes.

0:16:24 > 0:16:28Tell me now, when will you implement a ceasefire?

0:16:28 > 0:16:32As soon as we negotiate with the FARC all

0:16:32 > 0:16:38the items that will make the ceasefire an effective ceasefire.

0:16:38 > 0:16:44I have told them, let's accelerate the negotiation, and we can do that,

0:16:44 > 0:16:48if they want, in two or three weeks, and I am willing to declare

0:16:48 > 0:16:54a ceasefire as soon as possible.

0:16:54 > 0:16:59The only condition is to negotiate all the issues that surround

0:16:59 > 0:17:02an effective ceasefire, and that is what I have been offering.

0:17:02 > 0:17:04We have talked about trust.

0:17:04 > 0:17:07If you are convinced that the FARC is absolutely serious

0:17:07 > 0:17:10and committed to their ceasefire, isn't it incumbent

0:17:10 > 0:17:12on you now to return the favour?

0:17:12 > 0:17:17To ceasefire, otherwise, you could have a situation where

0:17:17 > 0:17:19the FARC fighters aren't fighting and your military are going

0:17:19 > 0:17:23into the jungle and blasting away, killing hundreds of them.

0:17:23 > 0:17:28First of all, my responses to that is I will not bomb you,

0:17:28 > 0:17:33bomb your camps, but I will continue to go after you, as long

0:17:33 > 0:17:36as you continue to extort people.

0:17:36 > 0:17:38Extortion, they live out of extortion, they have not kidnapped.

0:17:38 > 0:17:42They stopped kidnapping.

0:17:42 > 0:17:46They live out of illegal mining.

0:17:46 > 0:17:50As long as they do anything illegal, well, my armed forces are going to

0:17:50 > 0:17:52go after them.

0:17:52 > 0:17:55That's why I said to them, let's negotiate the whole package

0:17:55 > 0:17:57of a ceasefire, where everything should be taken into account.

0:17:57 > 0:18:02I am willing to declare a ceasefire as soon as possible, as soon

0:18:02 > 0:18:04as we negotiate the whole package.

0:18:04 > 0:18:11The big question for Colombians is how this plays out early next year.

0:18:11 > 0:18:18You have said you want a deal by the end of March 2016.

0:18:18 > 0:18:21We have agreed with FARC by 23rd March we should sign

0:18:21 > 0:18:22the final agreement.

0:18:22 > 0:18:24That is the final permanent lasting peace for Colombia,

0:18:24 > 0:18:28If we reach that agreement, yes.

0:18:28 > 0:18:32But the point is you have also, you have committed to what you call

0:18:32 > 0:18:35a plebiscite, or a referendum, where the final decision will be

0:18:35 > 0:18:36with the people of this nation.

0:18:36 > 0:18:37Yes.

0:18:37 > 0:18:39So when will that happen?

0:18:39 > 0:18:42That will happen after we sign the final agreement,

0:18:42 > 0:18:47if we sign the final agreement around March, let's say,

0:18:47 > 0:18:50then the plebiscite would be the done a couple of months afterwards.

0:18:50 > 0:18:55We need to have time to explain to the people what

0:18:55 > 0:18:57the agreement is about, and the people can say "No, we don't

0:18:57 > 0:18:59like it", then there is no deal.

0:18:59 > 0:19:00After all of this...

0:19:00 > 0:19:02Yes.

0:19:02 > 0:19:09The years of negotiation, are you saying this is vital

0:19:09 > 0:19:13for the future of your nation, you're telling me that if the public

0:19:13 > 0:19:14vote against it you will walk away?

0:19:14 > 0:19:17Yes, because that's the commitment I made since the beginning.

0:19:17 > 0:19:17The people...

0:19:17 > 0:19:20With respect, Mr President, you will have to resign at that point.

0:19:20 > 0:19:24Well, I will be in serious difficulty,

0:19:24 > 0:19:26but I am absolutely convinced that the overwhelming majority

0:19:26 > 0:19:31of the Colombians will support me, will support this peace process.

0:19:31 > 0:19:34Seems to me your biggest problem right now isn't with the FARC, it's

0:19:34 > 0:19:40with former President Uribe, who is going to mass all of his resources -

0:19:40 > 0:19:47and he has a lot of resources and a lot of political friends - and he is

0:19:47 > 0:19:50going to fight you tooth and nail in that referendum process,

0:19:50 > 0:19:53because he says " You are surrendering to terrorism."

0:19:53 > 0:19:57The people will decide, and I am again, I will repeat, absolutely

0:19:57 > 0:20:05convinced that the overwhelming majority of the people will back me,

0:20:05 > 0:20:09as they have been backing the peace process since the beginning.

0:20:09 > 0:20:13Sometimes with a high degree of scepticism, but the last poll,

0:20:13 > 0:20:16now you mentioned the polls, the last poll,

0:20:16 > 0:20:1982% of the Colombians said they are interested and they would be...

0:20:19 > 0:20:21Interested, sure.

0:20:21 > 0:20:24And they would support the signing of a peace process, because they

0:20:24 > 0:20:25think they will benefit.

0:20:25 > 0:20:26A final thought.

0:20:26 > 0:20:29Drugs.

0:20:29 > 0:20:33It seems to me that you're sending signals as President of Columbia,

0:20:33 > 0:20:36that you believe the American strategy in Latin America,

0:20:36 > 0:20:40the war on drugs, needs to be completely rethought.

0:20:40 > 0:20:42You made a speech not so long ago where you said

0:20:42 > 0:20:46"How do I explain to a peasant in Colombia that I have to put him

0:20:46 > 0:20:50in prison for growing marijuana, whereas in Colorado or Washington

0:20:50 > 0:20:54State in the US it's legal to buy that very same marijuana?

0:20:54 > 0:20:56The world needs an effective, fresher, more creative focus to win

0:20:56 > 0:20:57this campaign against drugs."

0:20:57 > 0:21:01It's not only the US, it's the world.

0:21:01 > 0:21:0440 years ago, the United Nations launched the war on drugs, and

0:21:04 > 0:21:09the war on drugs has not been won.

0:21:09 > 0:21:12We are the country who has suffered the most of any country

0:21:12 > 0:21:15in the world on this war on drugs.

0:21:15 > 0:21:18We have sacrificed our best leaders, our best politicians,

0:21:18 > 0:21:23our best journalists, our best judges, our best policemen,

0:21:23 > 0:21:26and we are still the number one provider of cocaine to the world.

0:21:26 > 0:21:29This is a tremendous problem.

0:21:29 > 0:21:32The agreement with the FARC has a very important item, which is

0:21:32 > 0:21:37in a way they switch sides.

0:21:37 > 0:21:41They protect and they finance themselves, through

0:21:41 > 0:21:45drug money, and they are now committed to helping the government

0:21:45 > 0:21:48do away with the illegal crops, substituting for legal crops, and do

0:21:48 > 0:21:50away with labs and the corridors.

0:21:50 > 0:21:59This is a major, major breakthrough in the war on drugs, but at the same

0:21:59 > 0:22:02time we need to sort of reengineer the approach on the war on drugs,

0:22:02 > 0:22:06because we have not been effective.

0:22:06 > 0:22:08You have, in the recent past, signalled to

0:22:08 > 0:22:10the United States you want change.

0:22:10 > 0:22:12You are no longer spraying the coca crops.

0:22:12 > 0:22:15The United States is not happy about that, but you said, you know what?

0:22:15 > 0:22:16Some people in the United States.

0:22:16 > 0:22:17Others are very happy.

0:22:17 > 0:22:22But the bottom line this is this.

0:22:22 > 0:22:24You, over the last decades, have taken billions and billions

0:22:24 > 0:22:26of US dollars to join them in fight against drugs.

0:22:26 > 0:22:29Are you saying that in the future, that will no longer be

0:22:29 > 0:22:32your strategy?

0:22:32 > 0:22:34We're pursuing a more effective strategy.

0:22:34 > 0:22:35For example the spraying.

0:22:35 > 0:22:40The spraying.

0:22:40 > 0:22:44We sprayed more in the last - before October when I stopped it, in the

0:22:44 > 0:22:47last two years, than ever before, and the coca production went up.

0:22:47 > 0:22:47What is...

0:22:47 > 0:22:48So what is the solution?

0:22:48 > 0:22:51To legalise drugs?

0:22:51 > 0:22:53Because some Latin American leaders are talking about legalisation.

0:22:53 > 0:22:57The solution is exactly what we are trying to convince the world to do,

0:22:57 > 0:23:02because this is not an issue for one single country.

0:23:02 > 0:23:08A single country, Colombia, cannot by itself - this is

0:23:08 > 0:23:10a multinational problem, and has to be approached multi-nationally.

0:23:10 > 0:23:14Is legalisation a part of the solution?

0:23:14 > 0:23:16Legalisation could be part of the solution.

0:23:16 > 0:23:17Decriminalisation is certainly part of the solution.

0:23:17 > 0:23:22A more effective approach.

0:23:22 > 0:23:29Taking away the illegal money from those mafias, those organised

0:23:29 > 0:23:33crime that are so powerful in Mexico and Central America, in Europe,

0:23:33 > 0:23:38in the Middle East.

0:23:38 > 0:23:43This is an approach that has certainly not

0:23:43 > 0:23:48been effective, and we, I am sorry to be so presumptuous, but we have,

0:23:48 > 0:23:50the Colombians, more authority to talk about this issue than any

0:23:51 > 0:23:52other country in the world.

0:23:52 > 0:23:54President Santos, thank you very much for being on HARDtalk.

0:23:54 > 0:23:58Thank you.

0:24:29 > 0:24:30An