:00:10. > :00:20.Memorable words, unforgettable guests, it is time to look back on a
:00:21. > :00:25.year of HARDtalk. Fences are not a solution. We cannot build centres in
:00:26. > :00:30.Europe. Europe must be able to defend her borders. Currently we are
:00:31. > :00:34.not able to do so. The star is Islamic assassins because they want
:00:35. > :00:41.to kill Jews. Promising these young and desperate Arabs, I cannot afford
:00:42. > :00:45.to promise a 1-bedroom apartment. The idea that we are going to have a
:00:46. > :00:53.transition in Syria, for an indefinite period, is massive. The
:00:54. > :01:00.insult became the convenient weapon of choice. War is a factory of
:01:01. > :01:08.victims and I want to stop that factory. Workers in a sex club, a
:01:09. > :01:14.lunatic asylum, you earn ten or $20,000 and you can make a feature
:01:15. > :01:22.film today. The things that drive people today, is a desire for staff
:01:23. > :01:28.is not money. I feel disgusted. It is so disgusting that my heart is
:01:29. > :01:33.traumatised and I am hurting. Welcome to this special edition of
:01:34. > :01:37.HARDtalk, with me, Stephen Sackur. That was just a flavour of the heat
:01:38. > :01:42.and passion generated in 2015 in this HARDtalk studio. In the next
:01:43. > :01:48.half-an-hour, I will knew some of the highlights, tough talk from the
:01:49. > :01:51.big stories from big personality. First, let us focus on the trauma
:01:52. > :02:00.and tragedy in the Middle East copy the terrible cost of Assyrian wall,
:02:01. > :02:07.the father to finance -- the violent defiance. Extremism continue to
:02:08. > :02:23.flourish in 2015 bringing extraordinary stories. The military
:02:24. > :02:27.to served a summer Ben -- Bin Laden. You would not have been given that
:02:28. > :02:32.sort of access. You would not have been regularly in the company of
:02:33. > :02:38.these men, were you not offering them something pretty special. I was
:02:39. > :02:45.offering them something that they were struggling with. It was the
:02:46. > :02:50.recruits coming into the camps in Afghanistan. They were having
:02:51. > :02:56.trouble finding enough educated people in Islamic theology to teach
:02:57. > :03:02.them. What I knew is that I was given the beauty of teaching and
:03:03. > :03:06.preaching. You can't fight this campaign with out a solid
:03:07. > :03:12.infrastructure. And what is a solid infrastructure? Without the
:03:13. > :03:16.preaching and teaching and the indoctrination that was taking place
:03:17. > :03:23.in the camps, you cannot have an individual committed fully blowing
:03:24. > :03:32.himself up. This is what the French president said, I want to believe
:03:33. > :03:36.about Mr Assad being in Russia, there must be a transition in Syria
:03:37. > :03:43.and one that Assad can have no future in. Was that the message?
:03:44. > :03:52.First of all, neither Paris or London nor Washington nor Moscow
:03:53. > :03:58.have the right to say who has the right to be the president of Syria.
:03:59. > :04:06.This is what our president has been insisting on. But you are sending in
:04:07. > :04:13.your bombers on Assad's Baja. The effect of what you are doing is to
:04:14. > :04:20.strengthen, very significantly, Assad's Hand. And you know that. Of
:04:21. > :04:25.course that is our goal. And there is a whole generation of people in
:04:26. > :04:28.Syria who are broken. It is an incredible situation. I tell you one
:04:29. > :04:34.thing. My son was in a, and he told me that there were 15,000 people on
:04:35. > :04:39.a waiting list for prosthetic limb. Imagine the care that you got to
:04:40. > :04:44.have. The starting point is. The killing. We should stop the War.
:04:45. > :04:49.Then you can start a long process of healing. Is this going to happen? I
:04:50. > :04:54.still hope and dream that it will happen. Do you see any more clarity
:04:55. > :05:00.and decisiveness from the overarm administration. We still have the
:05:01. > :05:03.essential problem from a year and a half ago that the administration
:05:04. > :05:08.wants to get to a political negotiation to get to that unity
:05:09. > :05:13.transitional government that I was talking about. It once that, but its
:05:14. > :05:17.tactics are not strong enough to compel the Assad government to
:05:18. > :05:24.negotiate. Its tactics are not strong enough to compel the Russians
:05:25. > :05:35.and the people from Orion to bring their negotiators to the table that
:05:36. > :05:43.lack Iran. -- people from Assad to bring the negotiators to the table.
:05:44. > :05:48.You said to the people of Israel, do not hesitate, shoot to kill. As soon
:05:49. > :05:55.as anyone pulls out a screwdriver or a knife. He went on to say that that
:05:56. > :06:01.is part of Israeli deterrence. Who are you to say things like that? Is
:06:02. > :06:06.nice of you to sit here in the studio, but I am telling you these
:06:07. > :06:15.people are Islamic fanatics who are going there to kill Jews because
:06:16. > :06:22.they are due. Are we supposed to say hold on we are going to read you
:06:23. > :06:36.your rights? You said the solution has died, is that it? It breaks my
:06:37. > :06:40.heart to say yes. You know what, 23 years ago the president, myself and
:06:41. > :06:45.many others from the Palestinian camps, said to the Palestinians,
:06:46. > :06:50.please don't despair you are not alone. We will organise a state in
:06:51. > :06:55.Israel and we will renounce violence. We have to use
:06:56. > :07:02.negotiations as a tool. And what have I delivered? 22 years later to
:07:03. > :07:08.these people? I could not deliver. That is the truth. Should I leave? I
:07:09. > :07:15.am thinking about it. I'm seriously thinking about it must even. There
:07:16. > :07:19.is much that I can take from my own family, from my own neighbours. I
:07:20. > :07:26.look them in the eyes and I was unable to deliver and that is the
:07:27. > :07:31.truth. And in 2015 the continued massacre in serial pushed a flow of
:07:32. > :07:39.refugees. Millions fled the Civil War in hopes of finding sanctuary in
:07:40. > :07:45.the heart of EU. They came from African war zones as well. It
:07:46. > :07:48.started a humanitarian and political crisis in Europe. Liberal values and
:07:49. > :07:56.continental solidarity were tested in a way not seen in a generation.
:07:57. > :08:02.The outside world has noted the razor wire fences, the teargas, the
:08:03. > :08:07.recent order from the that the Army be deployed and to use rubber
:08:08. > :08:13.bullets and tear gas, as well. The threat of imprisonment for illegal
:08:14. > :08:18.immigrant is up to three years. People see this and they wonder
:08:19. > :08:25.whether there is any humanity in Hungary to day. You know, there are
:08:26. > :08:32.laws according to which we manage our lives. Among these laws, you
:08:33. > :08:36.have some rules which say how you can cross a border in a country. I
:08:37. > :08:48.don't think that should be a normal situation that a mass that would
:08:49. > :08:53.like to get from point a to point B, and they would like to use a
:08:54. > :08:58.country as a corridor. I suppose the problem here, and I spoke about the
:08:59. > :09:08.credibility of your government, is that there is a perception, given
:09:09. > :09:12.his words, that he is playing a xenophobic card, a political card, a
:09:13. > :09:18.populist card inside this country. We are defending our way of life, he
:09:19. > :09:24.says. They are breaking down our door, we do not want a large number
:09:25. > :09:29.of Muslim people here, we must keep Europe Christian. These are all
:09:30. > :09:33.phrases he used. You have used the expression perception, right. I have
:09:34. > :09:45.to tell you that perception and truth are to different things that
:09:46. > :09:50.-- are two different things. We have the right to decide, whether they
:09:51. > :09:55.would like to share their lives with another significant community or
:09:56. > :09:59.not. France made a decision that they would like to share their lives
:10:00. > :10:05.with a significant Muslim community. They made that decision
:10:06. > :10:10.and we respected at. We expect everyone to respect our right to
:10:11. > :10:13.make or not to make those kinds of decisions. The French government has
:10:14. > :10:19.said they will take a 30,000 refugees, mostly from Syria over the
:10:20. > :10:25.next two years. 30,000 in a country of 16 million, and the Germans are
:10:26. > :11:04.taking 800,000. Where is this torrent coming to France?
:11:05. > :11:13.There are already, maybe 5 million Muslims living in France, French
:11:14. > :11:16.citizens just as French as you asked me how they think they feel when you
:11:17. > :11:20.suggest to me that Muslims coming into France represent a fundamental
:11:21. > :11:35.threat to the survival of this country?
:11:36. > :11:41.You are saying that a Muslim born here, whose mother and father are
:11:42. > :12:13.born here, he or she is not really French?
:12:14. > :12:21.How does Germany propose to stop this flow of people? IU intent on
:12:22. > :12:26.upon saying this is an open door policy and that you are welcome in
:12:27. > :12:33.Germany? We are talking about an asylum seeker, first of all. Germany
:12:34. > :12:38.is determined to stick with the Article one and the Constitution
:12:39. > :12:43.that the dignity of a human being is untouchable for a. Specifically,
:12:44. > :12:48.because about history. Therefore, if you have a reason for asylum, you
:12:49. > :12:53.will get shelter in Germany and in Europe, this is one of our core
:12:54. > :12:58.values. The scale of this migration crisis friends to fundamentally
:12:59. > :13:02.destabilise the European Union? No, I do not think so. Europe is able to
:13:03. > :13:08.manage that, if we really stand together, and if we don't look at
:13:09. > :13:14.our domestic shores, which avatars we had to tackle, but also go to the
:13:15. > :13:18.source of the problem. Look at the refugee camps, look at Syria and
:13:19. > :13:24.Iraq, look at Afghanistan and look at Africa, the northern part, and
:13:25. > :13:29.this is a global task we had to manage. I think we will be able to
:13:30. > :13:34.manage that. Not as a Europe that builds fences around and puts down
:13:35. > :13:40.the problem is government. The tensions over government were not
:13:41. > :13:44.confined to Europe. Last April I wave of xenophobic violence in South
:13:45. > :13:52.Africa killed at least seven migrants, and force them to seek
:13:53. > :14:00.safety in refuge. I spoke in a need to them, containing a majority of
:14:01. > :14:07.migrant. And continue my tour of the and I will go inside the biggest
:14:08. > :14:10.ten. This is where hundreds of immigrants who fled when the
:14:11. > :14:16.violence surged to Jurgen. C what conditions are like.
:14:17. > :14:22.The women and children were given at 110 to second, but they had just
:14:23. > :14:28.learned it was to be dismantled and the camp closed. The message was
:14:29. > :14:36.simple, go back to your homes in the community and return to your native
:14:37. > :14:40.countries. For me, my opinion is better to go back to Congo where
:14:41. > :14:47.there is a wall. I would rather die from a bullet from the Royal than
:14:48. > :14:54.dying with my shirt being set alight alive. This is not the truth. I feel
:14:55. > :15:00.disgusted about South Africa. I am so disappointed. So disappointed. If
:15:01. > :15:06.they can treat a human like an animal. The scenes in April of
:15:07. > :15:12.individuals being lynched, stabbed to death on the streets of
:15:13. > :15:21.Johannesburg and driven, these were absolutely shocking. -- Durban. I
:15:22. > :15:26.agree. Were you shopped personally? None of us wants violence or
:15:27. > :15:33.xenophobia in South Africa. Nobody wants a tax on foreigners oracles.
:15:34. > :15:38.-- were locals. Of the five provinces in South Africa, only to
:15:39. > :15:44.have been affected. Only seven people have died. It is regrettable
:15:45. > :15:46.there are even seven, and the determination of this government is
:15:47. > :15:53.that it should never happen again. There are at least 5 million
:15:54. > :15:57.migrants in South Africa, 10% of the population, and maybe a third come
:15:58. > :16:02.from Zimbabwe. In Johannesburg, they are not hard to find. Anyone who
:16:03. > :16:06.needs a wall painting or a roof fixing is likely to check out the
:16:07. > :16:10.Zimbabwean tradesmen who advertise their skills on the roadside,
:16:11. > :16:16.regardless of the new three of xenophobia. -- fear. To understand
:16:17. > :16:25.why its so many Zimbabweans continue to cross into South Africa, I
:16:26. > :16:31.journeyed to an economy in full-blown crisis. Unemployment is
:16:32. > :16:35.80%, the country's currency has been abandoned and people only trust the
:16:36. > :16:40.US dollar. I was granted a rare interview with one of Robert
:16:41. > :16:44.Mugabe's controversial ministers, who has seized on the xenophobic
:16:45. > :16:50.violence in South Africa as fertile ground for political point scoring.
:16:51. > :16:55.You have used some extraordinarily inflammatory language about the
:16:56. > :16:58.South Africans. You have said some affiliate today in South Africa and
:16:59. > :17:05.is the mutate into genocide tomorrow. You have accused South
:17:06. > :17:11.Africa of Afro phobia. What is your problem with South Africa? We don't
:17:12. > :17:16.have any problems with South Africans, in fact we don't have any
:17:17. > :17:23.problems with... To use the word genocide as you did. We have no
:17:24. > :17:28.problems in South Africa or with South Africans, I want to repeat.
:17:29. > :17:32.They are up others and sisters. We are in the trenches together. We
:17:33. > :17:37.have serious problems with those Lynch mobs doing what they did.
:17:38. > :17:42.There will be a transition before too long. I do confident in the
:17:43. > :17:49.circumstances of today's Zimbabwe that the transition when it comes is
:17:50. > :17:54.going to be peaceful and stable? Look, I don't know what transition
:17:55. > :17:59.we are talking about. No, I don't. This country has been dominated by
:18:00. > :18:09.one man for 35 years and it will soon come to an end. But his nature.
:18:10. > :18:15.-- that is nature. Power is not inherited, it is by-election. We
:18:16. > :18:20.would feel pressure if we did not have constitutional means for
:18:21. > :18:25.acquiring power in this country. Power in this country is acquired
:18:26. > :18:31.through a democratic election. 2015 was in many ways a bleak year full
:18:32. > :18:36.of conflict and instability, but they were chinks of light. After 50
:18:37. > :18:43.years of war, Columbia may be edging towards peace. I travelled to the
:18:44. > :18:47.guitar to meet the president, a leader convinced he can change the
:18:48. > :18:52.course of his country's history by reaching out to the armed leftist
:18:53. > :18:59.rebels from the Farc -- Bogota. Tommy about that historic handshake
:19:00. > :19:03.with the leader of the Farc last September. It was a strange
:19:04. > :19:09.photograph. You were there with him, the president of Cuba over
:19:10. > :19:16.CNET, in you did not look comfortable. What were you feeling?
:19:17. > :19:22.-- overseeing. It is a matter of timing. I thought it would be the
:19:23. > :19:28.correct time to start meeting face-to-face with the commander of
:19:29. > :19:35.the Farc. To start to try to push negotiations at a higher level,
:19:36. > :19:44.which we are doing, and it was a great moment to meet him. Of course
:19:45. > :19:51.he had been our enemy for all my life. Most Colombians believe he has
:19:52. > :19:56.the blood of hundreds of ambient citizens on his hands. The US
:19:57. > :20:00.government has a bounty of $500 million on his head because he is a
:20:01. > :20:06.kingpin of the cocaine trafficking, and you should his hand? Yes,
:20:07. > :20:09.because you don't make peace with your friends, you make peace with
:20:10. > :20:16.your enemies, and he is the enemy. If you want to end this war, we have
:20:17. > :20:21.to sit down with our enemies and have an agreement, and shake our
:20:22. > :20:26.hands to see that agreement. My challenge on HARDtalk is to figure
:20:27. > :20:29.out what makes leaders tick. What motivates the women and men who
:20:30. > :20:37.played dominant roles in business, politics and culture. In 2015, we
:20:38. > :20:42.got some great insights. I was the leader that broke the mould. I was
:20:43. > :20:49.the 27th and Minister of Australia and the first woman to do it. -- by
:20:50. > :20:52.Minister. A former leader of your party has considered your memoir and
:20:53. > :20:57.how you approach this issue of sexism and he says you did not get
:20:58. > :21:03.this old go fishbowl existence because you were female but because
:21:04. > :21:07.you were powerful. He describes your version of your rise and fall as a
:21:08. > :21:14.feminist fantasy, in vain glorious pursuit of political martyrdom, and
:21:15. > :21:19.thinks you are overplaying this. Bed is entitled to his view, but I said
:21:20. > :21:23.on the night I finished being Prime Minister and the last speech I would
:21:24. > :21:25.give to the nation as Prime Minister. The kind of speech in
:21:26. > :21:32.which many male politicians when they deliver at end up crying. It is
:21:33. > :21:36.a hard moment in your life. What I said that night was gender does not
:21:37. > :21:40.explain everything about my time as Prime Minister, it doesn't explain
:21:41. > :21:45.nothing. There are plenty of shades of grey. But I do believe there are
:21:46. > :21:52.some things here about women and leadership for the world to think
:21:53. > :21:55.through. If we can watch Hillary Clinton campaign to be president of
:21:56. > :21:59.the United States and from time to time be referred to in a sexist way,
:22:00. > :22:03.then there are things to think about. All I want our work to
:22:04. > :22:08.achieve is not that women are immune from criticism, absolutely not, at
:22:09. > :22:12.that women politicians are fairly criticised on the basis of abundance
:22:13. > :22:18.and capability and judgement. You are worth hundreds of millions of
:22:19. > :22:29.dollars. How greedy are you? That is a excellent question. Go on. Try to
:22:30. > :22:39.define it for me. Somewhat greedy. You can't end up as wealthy as I M
:22:40. > :22:45.without having amorous as part of your personality. But as desperation
:22:46. > :22:51.is a powerful force. -- aspiration. But in the absence of legitimate,
:22:52. > :22:59.real opportunity creates anger and resentment and violence. What
:23:00. > :23:03.unfolded in the small town of Ferguson, Missouri, over the last
:23:04. > :23:08.year, is only the tip of the iceberg. If there are a a few words
:23:09. > :23:14.you could give to a student like me as to what matters most in making a
:23:15. > :23:20.successful movie, what would you say? Everybody is complaining that
:23:21. > :23:26.the industry is so stupid. I do not get the money together. So I say
:23:27. > :23:32.roll up your sleeves, work as a bouncer in a sex club, a warden in a
:23:33. > :23:35.lunatic asylum for half a year. You earn $20,000 in you can make a
:23:36. > :23:43.feature film today. There is no excuse any more. Then of course
:23:44. > :23:47.read, read, read, read, read, read. If you don't read, you will never
:23:48. > :23:52.make a great film. In every HARDtalk year, there are a few magic moments
:23:53. > :23:57.that stay with me long after the calendar has moved on. In 2015, one
:23:58. > :24:02.highlight was getting the first low-cost interview with the Al
:24:03. > :24:07.Jazeera journalist imprisoned by the Egyptian ferment for simply doing
:24:08. > :24:14.his job. It has been a pleasure to have you on HARDtalk. Thank you for
:24:15. > :24:18.having me. That was the interview done, but he had one more thing he
:24:19. > :24:24.wanted to say. Thank you for doing that. It was a real delight to have
:24:25. > :24:29.you on the show. I hope it wasn't to... I have to tell you something.
:24:30. > :24:31.Imprisoned, I kept telling Peter when I come out I want to be on
:24:32. > :24:34.HARDtalk. LAUGHTER
:24:35. > :24:43.Dreams can come true. There you go. With Christmas Day just around
:24:44. > :24:48.the corner, the festive forecast There will be spells of very heavy
:24:49. > :24:53.rain over the next few days that