:00:00. > :00:10.Welcome to HARDTalk. I'm Stephen Sackur.
:00:11. > :00:13.Few countries take more seriously their commitment
:00:14. > :00:18.to international diplomacy and humanitarianism than Norway.
:00:19. > :00:20.So it's perhaps no surprise that Norway is co-hosting a donors'
:00:21. > :00:23.conference, here in London, to boost aid for Syria's
:00:24. > :00:30.More surprising is the criticism the Norwegian government is itself
:00:31. > :00:35.facing for its own stance on migration and asylum issues.
:00:36. > :00:38.My guest is Norway's Prime Minister, Erna Solberg - is she putting
:00:39. > :01:11.Prime Minister Erna Solberg, welcome to HARDTalk.
:01:12. > :01:15.Let's start with the donors' conference that you
:01:16. > :01:18.have just arrived in London for, all about Syria.
:01:19. > :01:21.The truth is, in 2015, the UN asked for, I think,
:01:22. > :01:25.$8 or $9 billion to help the Syrian people.
:01:26. > :01:29.Only got, I think, pretty much less than a half of that.
:01:30. > :01:32.So, what makes you think this time around you can convince donors
:01:33. > :01:37.Hopefully, they will see that if we don't help in the neighbouring
:01:38. > :01:39.countries, if we don't get enough help into Syria,
:01:40. > :01:49.I think what we have seen the last year is that so many people have
:01:50. > :01:51.lost hope in a situation when they are refugees in Turkey,
:01:52. > :01:53.in Lebanon, in Jordan, they are losing
:01:54. > :01:59.When the children are not allowed to go to school,
:02:00. > :02:01.because there is a lack of funding for extra
:02:02. > :02:03.classes in those countries, then they will start to move
:02:04. > :02:08.because this conflict has gone on too far.
:02:09. > :02:10.Interesting new couch all of that in terms of migration,
:02:11. > :02:17.It is sort of selfishness you are now appealing to,
:02:18. > :02:19.to save Europe from yet more problems with
:02:20. > :02:25.I think it's important to say, yes, we have a moral
:02:26. > :02:28.People will sometimes say, well, we have done
:02:29. > :02:32.this for years and years, how far can it go?
:02:33. > :02:35.In this world, today, we are so interconnected.
:02:36. > :02:37.If you don't solve problems where they arise, we will have
:02:38. > :02:44.So there is always the self-interest, together
:02:45. > :02:45.with the altruism, the principles, the need
:02:46. > :02:52.Sometimes, you need to appeal to the self interest say,
:02:53. > :02:58.you have to use a little bit more of your own tax payer's money
:02:59. > :03:02.or else you will have to use your taxpayer's money to help
:03:03. > :03:07.The cynic might say that the whole approach you have just outlined is,
:03:08. > :03:09.in the end, nothing more than a sticking
:03:10. > :03:13.As long as the conflict continues in Syria, one way or another,
:03:14. > :03:16.there are going to be, still, hundreds of thousands of people
:03:17. > :03:18.suffering, leaving the country and in desperate need of help.
:03:19. > :03:21.The real issue, surely, is not so much to just keep putting
:03:22. > :03:23.the sticking plasters on, it is to end
:03:24. > :03:28.What, if anything, are you doing to help that?
:03:29. > :03:30.It's true, all humanitarian aid is a sticking
:03:31. > :03:35.It is humanitarian aid, it is not long-term development.
:03:36. > :03:38.I think the real focus we should have is on stability.
:03:39. > :03:41.If you look at children outside school, I work a lot,
:03:42. > :03:44.the Norwegian government works a lot as a priority to get everybody,
:03:45. > :03:46.all children in the world, they should
:03:47. > :03:49.Education is the biggest development factor, I think,
:03:50. > :03:55.Half of those who do not attend school are in conflict areas.
:03:56. > :03:58.We know if you are going to reach the sustainable development goals,
:03:59. > :04:06.for example to stop hunger, or to eradicate poverty like most
:04:07. > :04:08.of the heads of nations have said yes to,
:04:09. > :04:11.this autumn in New York, we have to do something
:04:12. > :04:18.But you can't say that you only are dealing with this.
:04:19. > :04:20.You have also to do something about the humanitarian situation.
:04:21. > :04:24.You are co-hosting this donor conference
:04:25. > :04:27.You're going to cast your beady eye around the room,
:04:28. > :04:29.you're going to have representatives there from European countries,
:04:30. > :04:31.from the United States, from the Middle
:04:32. > :04:34.East, the rich Middle Eastern countries as well, to whom would
:04:35. > :04:41.you look and say, brutally, honestly,
:04:42. > :04:43.There are a lot of countries that have not
:04:44. > :04:49.They are doing a lot on the military side,
:04:50. > :04:52.but if you compare to a lot of other countries in Europe,
:04:53. > :04:55.they have not donated as much to the humanitarian aid as some
:04:56. > :04:58.What about the rich countries in the Middle East?
:04:59. > :05:04.Per capita, they are the largest donor to the Syrian
:05:05. > :05:10.But of course the Saudis, the Emirates, all of those should
:05:11. > :05:13.participate more in the years to come.
:05:14. > :05:15.And, if I may say so, there is good old Norway?
:05:16. > :05:18.Representing an oil country, I know that everybody has
:05:19. > :05:22.Well, you also know you have a sovereign law
:05:23. > :05:30.fund that is worth not so far short of 1 trillion US dollars.
:05:31. > :05:33.You have one of the wealthiest countries of the world per capita.
:05:34. > :05:35.Bob Geldof, the humanitarian, the activist, the musician,
:05:36. > :05:37.he came out with a memorable phrase recently, he was
:05:38. > :05:40.talking about Norway and the fact you have only agreed to take,
:05:41. > :05:42.I think, 8000 Syrian refugees over three years.
:05:43. > :05:44.He said that is just not good enough.
:05:45. > :05:46.Norwegians should realise that they have been handed
:05:47. > :05:48.the golden ticket in life and they should look
:05:49. > :05:54.But that means that he does not know what the Norwegian refugee
:05:55. > :06:01.We are taking 8,000 UNHCR refugees over three years.
:06:02. > :06:04.Britain has taken 20,000 UNHCR refugees over five years.
:06:05. > :06:08.So, comparably, we do a little bit more.
:06:09. > :06:12.And we have 31,000 asylum seekers who came last autumn.
:06:13. > :06:15.So, the influx of people coming from the conflict area is much
:06:16. > :06:25.This is where your government enters very controversial waters,
:06:26. > :06:28.in particular in the autumn of last year, at least 5000 migrants entered
:06:29. > :06:34.Norway, in the far north, across the Russian border.
:06:35. > :06:36.You have kept them in centres, facilities, which look a lot
:06:37. > :06:40.We have kept them in hotels, we have kept
:06:41. > :06:42.them in very different types of facilities.
:06:43. > :06:50.I was just looking at the words of one Sudanese guy.
:06:51. > :06:54.He said, you know what, it reminds me of the
:06:55. > :06:57.treatment I got when I was a human rights activist in Sudan,
:06:58. > :06:59.before I managed to get out of the country.
:07:00. > :07:02.There is one centre just by the border, where people are put
:07:03. > :07:04.before we are supposed to return them back
:07:05. > :07:08.But most asylum seekers in Norway, first of all, they get
:07:09. > :07:14.They stay in hotels, they stay in very different, good facilities.
:07:15. > :07:18.But, on the average, compared to most European countries,
:07:19. > :07:21.our reception centres for asylum seekers are on the best side
:07:22. > :07:27.You slipped in a very interesting phrase there.
:07:28. > :07:29.You said we keep them there before we
:07:30. > :07:31.are, quote, supposed to hand them back to Russia.
:07:32. > :07:34.Who says you are supposed to hand them back to
:07:35. > :07:38.Many people don't believe you should be handing them back to Russia.
:07:39. > :07:41.These are people, many of whom have legitimate claims to asylum,
:07:42. > :07:45.Why don't you allow them to process their claim inside Norway?
:07:46. > :07:48.We decided that we should follow the international regulations
:07:49. > :07:57.That means that everybody will have their case looked at.
:07:58. > :08:00.What we're doing now is that we are having a shorter type
:08:01. > :08:02.of processing than what you would do on a regular
:08:03. > :08:12.Let me just tell you, Russia, some of those people that have come
:08:13. > :08:16.to Norway, have stayed for a long time in Russia.
:08:17. > :08:19.We believe that Russia, for most of those that
:08:20. > :08:22.are coming, not all, but most of them, will be
:08:23. > :08:25.Let's quote you the words of the UNHCR official Vincent
:08:26. > :08:28.He says, we believe Norway is wrong to
:08:29. > :08:38.regard Russia as a safe country for people who need protection.
:08:39. > :08:40.Well, we believe that, for most of those that
:08:41. > :08:42.have come and used the asylum system to seek asylum,
:08:43. > :08:45.it will be a safe country because some of them have stayed
:08:46. > :08:54.Did you not know that the European Court of
:08:55. > :08:58.Human Rights has looked at what Russia has done
:08:59. > :09:07.with would-be asylum seekers, deporting them willy-nilly back
:09:08. > :09:09.to their home country to face persecution,
:09:10. > :09:10.and has concluded that Russia is contravening international
:09:11. > :09:12.standards and laws, and that, therefore,
:09:13. > :09:14.Norway, by sending these people back to Russia,
:09:15. > :09:22.That is why we have a mechanism that says that every case should be
:09:23. > :09:25.If you, in the interview with the police, are giving
:09:26. > :09:28.indications of your story that says we should look more thoroughly
:09:29. > :09:31.into it, that is why we are not sending back everybody -
:09:32. > :09:33.because there is an individual approach to all these cases.
:09:34. > :09:36.The Bishop of Borg, in your country, said, I am astonished my government
:09:37. > :09:39.Human dignity, he said, is being violated.
:09:40. > :09:41.We are often criticised on asylum policies.
:09:42. > :09:42.All governments have been that in Norway.
:09:43. > :09:45.But this isn't just criticism for the sake of it.
:09:46. > :09:48.This is a man of the Church saying, morally, much of anything
:09:49. > :09:50.else, he is appalled by the stance taken by your government.
:09:51. > :09:52.Well, first, we have a broad majority
:09:53. > :09:54.behind that policy in our Parliament.
:09:55. > :09:56.We have to make sure that we can have a sustainable
:09:57. > :10:02.We know that quite a lot of those that come have a need
:10:03. > :10:08.for protection, but there is a large number who are now coming who do not
:10:09. > :10:15.have a need for protection, and we have to have easy processing.
:10:16. > :10:17.We have to make sure we can return people fast,
:10:18. > :10:22.because it gives a clear signal back to those countries
:10:23. > :10:25.that people are coming from that you should not try to seek asylum.
:10:26. > :10:28.Well, Europe has a choice to make about
:10:29. > :10:31.Angela Merkel, she talked about Europe
:10:32. > :10:34.presenting a smiling face to those who have suffered so much and made
:10:35. > :10:36.it across borders into the European Union.
:10:37. > :10:47.I think it is because your coalition is dependent upon the support
:10:48. > :10:48.of the far-right, populist Progress party.
:10:49. > :10:50.In fact, you chose to appoint as Minister for Immigration
:10:51. > :10:53.and Integration Sylvi Listhaug, who is
:10:54. > :10:56.one of the most extreme opponents of Norway taking immigrants in,
:10:57. > :11:03.I think if you look at what our government is doing,
:11:04. > :11:06.it is up to high international standards in how
:11:07. > :11:11.we are dealing with the asylum process.
:11:12. > :11:14.But there is such a large influx to Europe now that we can't
:11:15. > :11:20.Norway have had quite liberal policies.
:11:21. > :11:22.We say we should be fair, we should be strict,
:11:23. > :11:29.but we should always respect the international regulations.
:11:30. > :11:34.This is what your Minister of Immigration said last year.
:11:35. > :11:36.I think it was just before she got the job.
:11:37. > :11:38.Interesting you then chose to appoint her to the job.
:11:39. > :11:40.She said, quote, for too long a tyranny
:11:41. > :11:43.of kindness has blown over Norway like a nightmare.
:11:44. > :11:49.You want to make a major cultural attitudinal shift in your country,
:11:50. > :11:52.away from kindness, tolerance, openness -
:11:53. > :11:57.which we associate with Norway - to something very different?
:11:58. > :11:59.This is rhetoric in a heated political debate.
:12:00. > :12:03.She said it and then you appointed her Minister!
:12:04. > :12:07.Why did you appoint her Minister of Immigration?
:12:08. > :12:08.Because she is a very good politician.
:12:09. > :12:11.She's good at handling her business and she has a broad mandate
:12:12. > :12:15.from our Parliament about being strict, tightening or asylum
:12:16. > :12:19.policies to make sure that people who get the rights to stay in Norway
:12:20. > :12:25.are people who are persecuted, who need protection,
:12:26. > :12:29.and that we have even better return policies than we have had so far,
:12:30. > :12:32.because we need to make sure that those who are using the asylum
:12:33. > :12:34.system, in fact, are in need of protection...
:12:35. > :12:39.I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you,
:12:40. > :12:43.right now, are being driven by the Progress Party,
:12:44. > :12:50.They are actively discussing, right now, copying the Danish model
:12:51. > :12:55.and confiscating the assets of immigrants over 10,000 kroner.
:12:56. > :12:58.They think if they are going to pay their way,
:12:59. > :13:00.as long as they are in this country, their assets
:13:01. > :13:03.have to be taken, short of wedding rings and things like that.
:13:04. > :13:07.No, and the government has said that we will
:13:08. > :13:10.Even my Minister of Immigration has said that is not
:13:11. > :13:19.My message has been very clear, we will not copy that type of laws.
:13:20. > :13:24.But, during the Red-Green Coalition, they made a policy in Norway that
:13:25. > :13:27.if you have large incomes before, if you are rich when you come
:13:28. > :13:31.and seek asylum, you might not get all of the free benefits
:13:32. > :13:33.in the asylum processing system as other people
:13:34. > :13:45.That's the same type of system would continue to have.
:13:46. > :13:48.Let's just to find some broader thresholds beyond which you will not
:13:49. > :13:54.go, because maybe you feel they are immoral, too much.
:13:55. > :13:56.You say you won't confiscate assets of
:13:57. > :13:58.these people who make it across your borders.
:13:59. > :14:00.Would you have tightened up, in a draconian fashion,
:14:01. > :14:03.some of the residency rules, the dependency rules.
:14:04. > :14:05.You now say anybody who is studying or working as an immigrant
:14:06. > :14:09.in Norway will have to wait four years before they have any chance
:14:10. > :14:10.of bringing a dependant into the country.
:14:11. > :14:18.for discussion, and then the government will decide
:14:19. > :14:24.Yes, we believe that we should tighten policies on family
:14:25. > :14:29.Because it is one of the pull factors that we have
:14:30. > :14:31.for immigration and for using the asylum processing system to get
:14:32. > :14:45.That is the message you are giving me, that Norway,
:14:46. > :14:46.as a bastion of liberalism in Europe,
:14:47. > :14:49.That was the nightmare of kindness and you're not
:14:50. > :14:54.Our neighbouring country got 180,000 asylum seekers last year.
:14:55. > :14:56.They have now put up a lot of proposals for
:14:57. > :15:02.We know that we have to be, in a way, in the same line
:15:03. > :15:06.Interesting, so if Denmark goes far to the right,
:15:07. > :15:12.No, not all, but on some of them we will follow.
:15:13. > :15:14.I think this is the European problem today.
:15:15. > :15:18.As long as the European Union system does
:15:19. > :15:20.not function well enough, we will all look at each other
:15:21. > :15:23.and say, we cannot be the one country that gets
:15:24. > :15:29.all the asylum seekers, so we will have to tighten our policies.
:15:30. > :15:32.If Europe managed to have more common
:15:33. > :15:38.European policies on asylum processing, on how to deal with it
:15:39. > :15:40.and can protect its borders, we will be able to...
:15:41. > :15:43.Well, that is a very interesting point.
:15:44. > :15:45.In fact, have less competition between these
:15:46. > :15:54.We should remind our audience, although Norway is not a member
:15:55. > :15:57.of the European Union, you are signed up to some of the key
:15:58. > :16:00.You're signed up to the Schengen freedom of movement principle.
:16:01. > :16:03.Basically, you have open borders, with all your EU
:16:04. > :16:05.member state neighbours, but now you have reimposed some
:16:06. > :16:10.border controls, as indeed have Denmark and Sweden.
:16:11. > :16:12.In your view, speaking as somebody who is associated with the EU,
:16:13. > :16:15.but not a member of it, is Schengen, that idea,
:16:16. > :16:21.It's not dead, but it needs firmly to be rescued
:16:22. > :16:24.if it is going to continue for the future.
:16:25. > :16:26.I understand that is also what the Dutch Presidency
:16:27. > :16:34.We need to have border control into Greece.
:16:35. > :16:37.We need to have a system of registration that starts
:16:38. > :16:39.when you are entering the European Union.
:16:40. > :16:41.And we need to have a system of redistribution and common
:16:42. > :16:48.solidarity on the amount of refugees that come.
:16:49. > :16:51.I think the EU started well in September, but the problem
:16:52. > :16:53.is that they are not managing to impliment
:16:54. > :16:55.the decisions they have already made.
:16:56. > :16:57.Do you regret signing up to Schengen?
:16:58. > :17:02.It's important to remember, we have hired
:17:03. > :17:03.a free passport union between the Nordic countries
:17:04. > :17:12.We have a very, very long border with Sweden.
:17:13. > :17:14.If we were outside Schengen, and Sweden were inside Schengen,
:17:15. > :17:16.we would have a border problem, because
:17:17. > :17:18.it is so long, it is impossible to control.
:17:19. > :17:20.We have had this freedom between the Nordic countries,
:17:21. > :17:28.Well, you know, that might be coming to an end?
:17:29. > :17:30.Well, these days, we do have, between Denmark and Sweden,
:17:31. > :17:34.Norway only has border control on the ferries
:17:35. > :17:37.that we have from Denmark and Germany.
:17:38. > :17:38.That is because Sweden and Denmark is having
:17:39. > :17:41.border controls and because they are doing that,
:17:42. > :17:43.of course, the influx these days are a little bit,
:17:44. > :17:45.well, not just a little bit, they are much smaller
:17:46. > :17:51.Let me redirect our debate a little bit.
:17:52. > :17:54.It's fascinating that you are in London right now,
:17:55. > :17:56.as the UK wrestles with this question of
:17:57. > :18:04.whether to stay in or leave the European Union.
:18:05. > :18:12.We expect the referendum may come as early as June this year.
:18:13. > :18:14.Here is what the leader of your Centre Party,
:18:15. > :18:16.not your party, but another party in Norway,
:18:17. > :18:19.said to the Sun newspaper in the UK just a few days ago.
:18:20. > :18:25.Norway is proof that you can work on your own.
:18:26. > :18:28.We rejected EU membership and we have never looked back.
:18:29. > :18:31.Do you share that sentiment? No.
:18:32. > :18:33.It is important to remember that the Centre Party is also
:18:34. > :18:38.But we should just say, the EEA Agreement...
:18:39. > :18:44.That is where we are members of the single market.
:18:45. > :18:48.You're all but members of the EU,
:18:49. > :18:50.in an economic sense, because you signed up
:18:51. > :18:54.The problem for you is, you have to abide by all the rules
:18:55. > :18:57.of the single market, but you don't have a single
:18:58. > :18:58.participatory voice in decision-making.
:18:59. > :19:02.We are a small country, and small countries usually
:19:03. > :19:04.have to adapt to what bigger countries do say.
:19:05. > :19:06.So you sacrificed your sovereignty, knowingly, and without any sort
:19:07. > :19:09.of recompense in terms of a voice at the table?
:19:10. > :19:11.I voted in favour of EU membership, the last
:19:12. > :19:15.And the Norwegians said you were wrong.
:19:16. > :19:27.That is what we are lacking in Norway.
:19:28. > :19:30.We are not influencing quite large parts of our laws and regulations
:19:31. > :19:32.that will be adapted into Norwegian laws.
:19:33. > :19:35.We can say yes and no, we can lobby before it is decided
:19:36. > :19:37.on, but we are not participating in the actual
:19:38. > :19:39.decision-making, which I think is a very difficult issue
:19:40. > :19:44.But we know that we are benefiting so much from being part
:19:45. > :19:49.We are a very small economy, which is very export
:19:50. > :19:52.and very international orientated, especially
:19:53. > :19:58.That is why it is so important for us to have a common
:19:59. > :20:05.But here's the thing, the British advocates of exit,
:20:06. > :20:07.they say, look, we can be a little bit
:20:08. > :20:09.different from Norway, we like Norway's spirit
:20:10. > :20:12.of independence, but, unlike Norway, we won't have to sign up
:20:13. > :20:14.to all the rules of the single market to have our full
:20:15. > :20:16.trading relationship with the European Union,
:20:17. > :20:23.In fact, the EU, if we were to leave the European Union, the British
:20:24. > :20:26.advocates of exit say, the EU would have to trade with us,
:20:27. > :20:28.because we'd be their biggest trading partner.
:20:29. > :20:31.So we can dictate the terms much better than Norway could.
:20:32. > :20:38.I believe it is very difficult to get away from the fact that,
:20:39. > :20:42.for European companies to compete on the same basis,
:20:43. > :20:46.they have to be inside the same regulatory framework.
:20:47. > :20:48.If Britain is supposed to be outside the regulatory framework,
:20:49. > :20:54.it will be more difficult to have the same system.
:20:55. > :20:57.So, before we became members of the single market,
:20:58. > :21:03.we had Norwegian companies being threatened with saying
:21:04. > :21:07.they were having dumping prices, getting sanctions against it.
:21:08. > :21:12.It's always up to countries to decide themselves.
:21:13. > :21:15.I think it's going to be difficult, because Europe is putting up a lot
:21:16. > :21:23.The countries around will have to apply to it.
:21:24. > :21:28.So the argument is, Britain would have a much stronger
:21:29. > :21:30.negotiating hand with the EU, post-exit.
:21:31. > :21:38.I believe that the EU is a body that always is good at making
:21:39. > :21:46.So you might get a political agreement, but you cannot get away
:21:47. > :21:49.from the fact that you have to have the same playing field.
:21:50. > :21:51.You have to have the same rules and regulations.
:21:52. > :21:54.If you are outside the EU, you will not sit at
:21:55. > :22:04.I am guessing that if you were Prime Minister
:22:05. > :22:06.of Britain today, not Norway, you would be staying
:22:07. > :22:09.Yes, and I hope that Britain will stay in,
:22:10. > :22:13.because I think it is important for all of us
:22:14. > :22:15.that are market-orientated politicians, who believe
:22:16. > :22:17.that we should have a Europe that is focusing on competitiveness,
:22:18. > :22:19.focusing on creating more wealth for the people,
:22:20. > :22:22.I think it's important to have a country like Britain in.
:22:23. > :22:24.Because sometimes you do oppose some of the federalism
:22:25. > :22:31.I think it would be a loss for Europe if Britain left.
:22:32. > :22:33.So, Britain is like Norway's proxy inside the EU?
:22:34. > :22:36.Before we end, I just want to put one thing to you.
:22:37. > :22:38.We have couched this whole conversation in the context
:22:39. > :22:42.But there is a plunge in the oil price.
:22:43. > :22:45.The oil boom is over, and it seems like it is over
:22:46. > :22:50.That is going to change your economic model completely, isn't it?
:22:51. > :22:53.Well, it means that we need to find new ways of getting our
:22:54. > :22:58.economic growth and securing our wealth in future.
:22:59. > :23:01.Would you agree that you have become over reliant on oil and gas?
:23:02. > :23:03.Our economic basis is too strong on oil and gas.
:23:04. > :23:07.But our budgets and our economic policies are not that,
:23:08. > :23:10.because we have put all of our incomes from the oil and gas
:23:11. > :23:12.sector into our sovereign fund, meaning that we have a buffer,
:23:13. > :23:17.Well, I agree, congratulations, very thrifty.
:23:18. > :23:19.But I notice now you have started to draw
:23:20. > :23:22.down on the sovereign wealth fund for the first time.
:23:23. > :23:24.Which suggests to me that, long-term, you may end
:23:25. > :23:27.But still the sovereign fund is increasing because
:23:28. > :23:30.of what they are getting out of their other investment.
:23:31. > :23:32.But we're not putting more oil money, or
:23:33. > :23:37.When you have $30 a barrel, it is very difficult to get
:23:38. > :23:44.In a word, Norway, per capita, is pretty much
:23:45. > :23:51.one of the top five richest countries in the world today.
:23:52. > :23:54.Will you still be in the top five richest
:23:55. > :23:56.countries in the world ten years from now?
:23:57. > :24:01.We are trying to use the income and our budget to make sure
:24:02. > :24:04.we can diversify our economy, and make sure that we can use a lot
:24:05. > :24:06.of the other resources that Norway has.
:24:07. > :24:09.Not just on people, but also nature, fishery resources.
:24:10. > :24:12.We have very many other strong aspects.
:24:13. > :24:45.Erna Solberg, thank you so much for being on HARDTalk.
:24:46. > :24:50.If you found it a little chilly today, there is good news for
:24:51. > :24:53.tomorrow. It's going to be a little bit milder, but you are going to
:24:54. > :24:54.have to pay for it. It