0:00:01 > 0:00:09Now on BBC News it is time for HARDtalk.
0:00:09 > 0:00:11Welcome to HARDtalk, I'm Stephen Sackur.
0:00:11 > 0:00:13The politics of anger and insecurity have created
0:00:13 > 0:00:19a new dynamic in Europe.
0:00:19 > 0:00:22Nationalist anti-immigrant parties have made inroads in many countries,
0:00:22 > 0:00:29such as Hungary, Denmark and Finland.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32The right-wing populist party is a significant player in the
0:00:32 > 0:00:37centre-right Coalition government.
0:00:37 > 0:00:40My guest today is Timo Soini, Leader of the Finnish Opposition
0:00:40 > 0:00:46and the Foreign Minister.
0:00:46 > 0:00:49What happens to the populists when they face the compromises that
0:00:49 > 0:01:14come with sharing power?
0:01:14 > 0:01:16Timo Soini, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:01:16 > 0:01:19We last spoke to each other about three years ago.
0:01:19 > 0:01:21You were then the opponent of the Finnish government.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24You were channelling a lot of anger and resentment in your country.
0:01:24 > 0:01:39It is very difficult to do that when you are in the government, isn't it?
0:01:39 > 0:01:40Of course it is.
0:01:40 > 0:01:41It's a different role.
0:01:41 > 0:01:43But the political line should be the same.
0:01:43 > 0:01:47It is now in development, it is a better chance to make it more.
0:01:47 > 0:01:50You've had to sacrifice a lot of your principles for pragmatism?
0:01:50 > 0:01:52No, but we are living in the realistic world.
0:01:52 > 0:01:55When you are on your own, of course you can more or less
0:01:55 > 0:01:59decide what to say and when to say it and how to say it.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02When you are in the government, in a coalition, you must be able to
0:02:02 > 0:02:04make compromises.
0:02:04 > 0:02:12But that doesn't mean that you are giving up your principles.
0:02:12 > 0:02:13We will talk about that.
0:02:13 > 0:02:16One thought from you that comes from elsewhere in Scandinavia.
0:02:16 > 0:02:19Not so long ago, the far right party in Denmark who did extraordinarily
0:02:19 > 0:02:23well in the last election, they came second, they took a decision to stay
0:02:23 > 0:02:25out of a Coalition government because they felt that that would
0:02:25 > 0:02:28compromise them too much.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31You clearly felt something different, is that because you
0:02:31 > 0:02:43are desperate for some power?
0:02:43 > 0:02:45No, I have a background in the Finnish rural party.
0:02:45 > 0:02:48There is a long tradition of helping small businessmen,
0:02:48 > 0:02:58peasants, workers.
0:02:58 > 0:03:00Our party hasn't been founded lately, it has roots
0:03:00 > 0:03:07going back over 50 years.
0:03:07 > 0:03:10That is why we have been serious players in local politics
0:03:10 > 0:03:13for a long time.
0:03:13 > 0:03:15The point is, you have not had national power before.
0:03:15 > 0:03:17Now you do, and it seems you are leaving
0:03:17 > 0:03:19behind a lot of your core support.
0:03:19 > 0:03:21When you talk about the rise, they call it betrayal.
0:03:21 > 0:03:27They feel you have betrayed them.
0:03:27 > 0:03:28That is not true.
0:03:28 > 0:03:31If I went out, they would say, why won't you do this?
0:03:31 > 0:03:37You're not going to deliver anything.
0:03:37 > 0:03:38Talking about the compromise and principles.
0:03:38 > 0:03:41Starting with migration, perhaps the number one issue facing
0:03:41 > 0:03:51European countries today.
0:03:51 > 0:03:53A huge political issue in your country and across Europe.
0:03:53 > 0:03:55For many years, you were very straightforward
0:03:55 > 0:04:02in your anti-immigration stance.
0:04:02 > 0:04:05You now represent a government which, as part of the
0:04:05 > 0:04:07Schengen EU collective, committed to taking quotas of immigrants.
0:04:07 > 0:04:14You've accepted that?
0:04:14 > 0:04:16First, we must define certain things.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18Of course, Finns Party, like every human organisation and
0:04:18 > 0:04:22human being, feels for the people who are in need, who are in danger.
0:04:22 > 0:04:24Women, children, people who are persecuted and under threat.
0:04:24 > 0:04:33Of course that is the case.
0:04:33 > 0:04:36That is not the problem.
0:04:36 > 0:04:38What we have criticised is the immigration on other grounds,
0:04:38 > 0:04:44economic immigration and so forth.
0:04:44 > 0:04:47If you work, if you deliver, that is the kind of principle
0:04:47 > 0:04:54which is very important.
0:04:54 > 0:04:56With respect, there are many voices inside
0:04:56 > 0:05:00your own party, the Finns Party, who don't see it the way you do.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03They see a quote here, using a quote from one of your MEPs,
0:05:03 > 0:05:10they see a clear Muslim threat in the nature of immigration today.
0:05:10 > 0:05:18This is what I get on a daily basis.
0:05:18 > 0:05:21From inside your own party?
0:05:21 > 0:05:23Yes.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25But we must look at the full picture.
0:05:25 > 0:05:28It is not solely about immigration, it is about many things.
0:05:28 > 0:05:30There is of course a fraction in the party.
0:05:30 > 0:05:33I think it is better to have those kind of people in
0:05:33 > 0:05:37a democratic process than outside.
0:05:37 > 0:05:43The MEP I am talking about, you know him very well.
0:05:43 > 0:05:49He has been a big player in your party for a long time.
0:05:49 > 0:05:53He was convicted of ethnic agitation for things he wrote in a blog post
0:05:53 > 0:05:54about the Prophet Muhammad.
0:05:54 > 0:06:02You said anybody convicted of racist crimes would not have a future
0:06:02 > 0:06:04as a representative of your party.
0:06:04 > 0:06:09I am intrigued to know why he is still representing your party?
0:06:09 > 0:06:12That is the same old story.
0:06:12 > 0:06:16We have sorted out that he is still in the party, and we think that
0:06:16 > 0:06:23everybody must have a second chance.
0:06:23 > 0:06:27So when you said those convicted of the sorts of crimes have no
0:06:27 > 0:06:31future in the party, you were just saying that for public consumption?
0:06:31 > 0:06:33Of course I did not say it for public consumption, everybody
0:06:33 > 0:06:37must have a second chance.
0:06:37 > 0:06:40So, you've made a complete U-turn?
0:06:40 > 0:06:43No.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45But I think that if somebody is making a mistake,
0:06:45 > 0:06:49he should have a second chance.
0:06:49 > 0:06:53You have also got party MPs who have said things like this, last year
0:06:53 > 0:06:56in the midst of high numbers of migrants coming to Europe.
0:06:56 > 0:07:04You had around 30,000 coming to Finland.
0:07:04 > 0:07:07One of your MP's said, I am dreaming of a strong,
0:07:07 > 0:07:10brave Finland who will defeat this nightmare called multiculturalism.
0:07:10 > 0:07:12We must fight to the end for our homeland
0:07:12 > 0:07:19and one true Finnish nation.
0:07:19 > 0:07:21Is that the sentiment you feel yourself
0:07:21 > 0:07:22as Foreign Minister of Finland?
0:07:22 > 0:07:24I would say the other way.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27I would say that when you come to Finland, you adopt
0:07:27 > 0:07:32the local culture and habits.
0:07:32 > 0:07:35But nobody is denied his beliefs or hers, through faith.
0:07:35 > 0:07:45That is the case.
0:07:45 > 0:07:46We began by talking about the balance
0:07:46 > 0:07:47between principle and compromise.
0:07:47 > 0:07:51Not so long ago, towards the end of last year, another one of your
0:07:51 > 0:07:54senior officials, the vice-chairman of your party, said we must leave
0:07:54 > 0:07:56this Coalition government because we have betrayed all the promises we
0:07:56 > 0:08:01made to the people of Finland about limiting immigration.
0:08:01 > 0:08:03In 2014, just over 3000 people claimed asylum.
0:08:03 > 0:08:10In 2015, it was over 30,000.
0:08:10 > 0:08:12You have betrayed the Finns Party commitment to keep immigration down.
0:08:12 > 0:08:13He got it wrong.
0:08:13 > 0:08:25The big majority of the party thinks that we deliver.
0:08:25 > 0:08:36We are in a very bad situation in Finland.
0:08:36 > 0:08:39It would be a betrayal to leave if you have promised
0:08:39 > 0:08:40and committed for four years.
0:08:40 > 0:08:43We are talking about promises, you broke a promise to do everything
0:08:43 > 0:08:45in your power to keep immigration at the 2014 level.
0:08:45 > 0:08:47No, I have not broken any promises.
0:08:47 > 0:08:53None.
0:08:53 > 0:08:56As one of the most senior officials, you are part of a government
0:08:56 > 0:08:58which is clearly tolerating a far greater number
0:08:58 > 0:09:09of immigrants than the supporters of your party want to see.
0:09:09 > 0:09:10Let's have a realistic view of this.
0:09:10 > 0:09:12For example, Germany who saw 1.1 million.
0:09:12 > 0:09:13This is huge, catastrophic.
0:09:13 > 0:09:15No country could have been unaffected by this issue.
0:09:15 > 0:09:23That is the fact.
0:09:23 > 0:09:25Of course, we want to get back control.
0:09:25 > 0:09:27Now, Finland is controlling the situation.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30Of course, now we have delivered.
0:09:30 > 0:09:33It's not really controlling the situation, a lot of
0:09:33 > 0:09:36the situation is being controlled by the EU Council and the commission.
0:09:36 > 0:09:38Many decisions affect Finland, for example the one
0:09:38 > 0:09:41for one deal with Turkey.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44On that deal, the implication of that deal is that
0:09:44 > 0:09:46future refugees, including Syrians, will be sent back in.
0:09:46 > 0:09:57Yes.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00In exchange, the EU will take one for one exchanges from Turkey.
0:10:00 > 0:10:10Are you committing to that?
0:10:10 > 0:10:12We always keep our promises.
0:10:12 > 0:10:14That is Finland's word of honour.
0:10:14 > 0:10:21How many are you prepared to take?
0:10:21 > 0:10:25We have committed to taking 600 already.
0:10:25 > 0:10:30That is not anywhere what the EU will require from you.
0:10:30 > 0:10:33The EU will make a decision, a few months ago they said 160,000
0:10:33 > 0:10:39and they have not delivered.
0:10:39 > 0:10:41There are only a few countries who have made
0:10:41 > 0:10:47their share, Finland, Luxembourg and Sweden are among those.
0:10:47 > 0:10:50In the quota from last year, Finland was told you would take 2078.
0:10:51 > 0:10:55How many have you actually taken?
0:10:55 > 0:10:59A little bit over a 100.
0:10:59 > 0:11:01Again, I am wondering whether whatever rhetorical
0:11:01 > 0:11:03commitments you make to join in collective burden sharing in the
0:11:04 > 0:11:05EU, should we take you seriously?
0:11:05 > 0:11:14Of course.
0:11:14 > 0:11:16We haven't broken any of our promises.
0:11:16 > 0:11:18Coming back to the basic numbers question,
0:11:18 > 0:11:21the numbers are going to have to rise given the one for one deal.
0:11:21 > 0:11:24If it ever happens, countries like Finland will have to
0:11:24 > 0:11:25take substantial numbers, at least several thousand.
0:11:25 > 0:11:31Are you prepared to do that?
0:11:31 > 0:11:34First, when we didn't have any kind of agreement, we had to take
0:11:34 > 0:11:3732,000 from our western border.
0:11:37 > 0:11:47That was uncontrolled.
0:11:47 > 0:11:49They don't know who is coming and who is not.
0:11:49 > 0:11:52Now, if we make a deal, we have thousands to come.
0:11:52 > 0:11:54But they are collected from the hotspots or from the accounts.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58We know who they are.
0:11:58 > 0:12:01We know what they are entitled to and that they
0:12:01 > 0:12:02are entitled to asylum.
0:12:02 > 0:12:10That is important.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13Asking you one more time, can you put a figure on how many refugees
0:12:13 > 0:12:19Finland is prepared to take?
0:12:19 > 0:12:21Our national quota is 1050 at the moment.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24It will rise?
0:12:24 > 0:12:27We'll see.
0:12:27 > 0:12:30Talking about Russia, in the first two months
0:12:30 > 0:12:32of this year, almost 1000 people crossed from Russia into Finland.
0:12:32 > 0:12:34Since then, you have spoken to Russia and they
0:12:34 > 0:12:36seem to have stemmed the flow.
0:12:36 > 0:12:41But many people say that the only way in the long run to ensure
0:12:41 > 0:12:46the security of Europe in terms of immigration is to build fences.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49One of those might have to be between Finland and Russia.
0:12:49 > 0:12:51Are you prepared to do that?
0:12:51 > 0:12:55No.
0:12:55 > 0:13:00We have a long tradition to co-operate with Russia.
0:13:00 > 0:13:07We don't have any fear, we know that we have been delivering.
0:13:07 > 0:13:09There was also a very challenging situation when
0:13:09 > 0:13:10Russia was under Communist rule.
0:13:10 > 0:13:12We need an agreement and good co-operation with
0:13:12 > 0:13:18our border officials.
0:13:18 > 0:13:26Do you trust Putin's Russia?
0:13:26 > 0:13:29This is the political reality, we cannot change the geopolitics.
0:13:29 > 0:13:32We have to be there, we have the hand we have been given
0:13:32 > 0:13:42and we are playing with that hand.
0:13:42 > 0:13:53You say it's not a matter of trust, but there are certain challenges
0:13:53 > 0:13:55and options that Finland must deal with that?
0:13:55 > 0:13:58You see what has happened in the Ukraine, Georgia and other places
0:13:58 > 0:14:02that you could say were at some time, part of the Ukrainian empire.
0:14:02 > 0:14:04You've been there.
0:14:04 > 0:14:05For 100 years.
0:14:05 > 0:14:12We have learned from that.
0:14:12 > 0:14:15Have you learned that you need to be in Nato?
0:14:15 > 0:14:18Not necessarily.
0:14:18 > 0:14:19It is up to people to decide.
0:14:19 > 0:14:22This government is making a Nato review on this issue.
0:14:22 > 0:14:24But what we think about is that Russian people,
0:14:24 > 0:14:27they know that we'd defend ourselves, or whatever it takes.
0:14:27 > 0:14:41That is, you cannot change the world and the geographical facts.
0:14:41 > 0:14:44When you say we will defend ourselves whatever it takes, the
0:14:44 > 0:14:47Russians hear that kind of language and the fact that your government is
0:14:47 > 0:14:51considering Nato membership.
0:14:51 > 0:14:54They see that as hostile and respond to it by saying things
0:14:54 > 0:14:57like this - Russia's Ambassador to Sweden, warning of consequences
0:14:57 > 0:14:59if Finland goes ahead with a Nato application for membership.
0:14:59 > 0:15:01Another adviser to President Putin said Finland should think
0:15:01 > 0:15:03of the consequences if it considers joining Nato.
0:15:03 > 0:15:23They must ask themselves if they are prepared to start World War Three?
0:15:23 > 0:15:26We are an independent country and we will make our own decisions,
0:15:26 > 0:15:31always and every time.
0:15:31 > 0:15:32You are the foreign minister.
0:15:32 > 0:15:36You tell me what you believe to be the right option.
0:15:36 > 0:15:38Should Finland join Nato?
0:15:38 > 0:15:40That door should be open.
0:15:40 > 0:15:41But we are now militarily non-aligned,
0:15:41 > 0:15:51in the sense that we are not members of the military alliance.
0:15:51 > 0:15:53But we are cooperating with Nato, in Irbil, in Lebanon,
0:15:53 > 0:15:54we are in many places.
0:15:54 > 0:15:58I know that, you have joined some operations, and you have also seen
0:15:58 > 0:16:00Russians building a military base just 50 metres from your border.
0:16:00 > 0:16:02You have seen the aerial violations in Scandinavia.
0:16:02 > 0:16:04You know what games that it is playing.
0:16:04 > 0:16:06So I will ask you one more time.
0:16:06 > 0:16:07You are the foreign minister.
0:16:07 > 0:16:09You must have an opinion on this.
0:16:09 > 0:16:17In the long run...
0:16:17 > 0:16:20I am the foreign minister of this government, and I follow
0:16:20 > 0:16:23the government programme, which I just told you what it was.
0:16:23 > 0:16:24Well, that is interesting.
0:16:24 > 0:16:26You are becoming quite a loyalist to your government,
0:16:26 > 0:16:29even though you used to have strong opinions on all sorts of things.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32Let's leave Nato on one side.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34If I make an agreement, I keep my word.
0:16:34 > 0:16:36Well, one thing you used to give your word
0:16:36 > 0:16:40on, to the members of your party and to the country, was that you
0:16:40 > 0:16:41were an opponent of the eurozone.
0:16:41 > 0:16:45You felt that it was damaging for Finland, and you also felt that
0:16:45 > 0:16:47it was, in a sense, northern Europe bankrolling southern Europe.
0:16:47 > 0:16:51And you said, and it was a famous quote at the time, that there were
0:16:51 > 0:16:59parts of the eurozone that had gangrene and should be amputated.
0:16:59 > 0:17:01Yes, that's right, and what has happened...
0:17:01 > 0:17:02But it can't be amputated.
0:17:02 > 0:17:05You were talking about Greece, Spain, Portugal...
0:17:05 > 0:17:10The crisis is far from over.
0:17:10 > 0:17:13Yes, but I come back to this point, I keep repeating it.
0:17:13 > 0:17:15You are now the foreign minister in this government.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18You go to the eurozone meetings, you go to...
0:17:18 > 0:17:23I don't go to the eurozone itself.
0:17:23 > 0:17:27You are not the finance minister, but the point is you are part of
0:17:27 > 0:17:31a government which is now committed to staying in the eurozone.
0:17:31 > 0:17:35The fact is that we must fight with the best interests of the Finnish
0:17:35 > 0:17:36people, every time.
0:17:36 > 0:17:47What good would it be for people to leave it on the floor?
0:17:47 > 0:17:49It is a question of principle, though.
0:17:49 > 0:17:52There are many people in your party who are very strong
0:17:52 > 0:17:54supporters of the idea of pushing for a referendum of continued
0:17:54 > 0:17:55Finnish membership of the euro.
0:17:55 > 0:17:57Of course, they want to get out.
0:17:57 > 0:18:01What do you say to those members of your own party who are pushing
0:18:01 > 0:18:04for a referendum on the euro?
0:18:04 > 0:18:07The majority of the party elected me unanimously a few months ago,
0:18:07 > 0:18:10and they know that I am defining and delivering a party programme.
0:18:10 > 0:18:12So that is the mainstream of the party,
0:18:12 > 0:18:18and that is how it should be carried out, and that is how it functions.
0:18:18 > 0:18:21But to be clear, as I understand it, in the next few weeks
0:18:21 > 0:18:24a parliamentary debate will be held on whether to have a national
0:18:24 > 0:18:27referendum on what they call Fixit, your exit from the eurozone.
0:18:27 > 0:18:32What is your position on that?
0:18:32 > 0:18:35That is the case.
0:18:35 > 0:18:38There is not that kind of deal, but it is guaranteed,
0:18:38 > 0:18:52if the majority of parliament doesn't want it, it doesn't exist.
0:18:52 > 0:18:53No, I understand that.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55But you have an important voice, not just for your party,
0:18:55 > 0:18:56but for the nation.
0:18:56 > 0:18:59And I want to know what your opinion is today.
0:18:59 > 0:19:01Would Finland be better off outside the eurozone,
0:19:01 > 0:19:04and would you, if there were to be a referendum, would you campaign to
0:19:04 > 0:19:06get out of the eurozone?
0:19:06 > 0:19:09This thing has a background, and the background was that we were
0:19:09 > 0:19:11never allowed a referendum in the eurozone, as Sweden did,
0:19:11 > 0:19:12as Denmark did.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14And that has a lot of people feeling not well,
0:19:14 > 0:19:17because we were never asked, and that is where it comes from.
0:19:17 > 0:19:21And of course, I said openly that I wouldn't have joined the euro.
0:19:21 > 0:19:24But what is now needed, if you want to get rid of it and get
0:19:24 > 0:19:27Fixit, you must have the majority of the people and the majority
0:19:27 > 0:19:29of the parliament to agree.
0:19:29 > 0:19:42And that is not the situation at the moment.
0:19:42 > 0:19:45Because you are now inside government, and in the course of
0:19:45 > 0:19:48this interview you have illustrated how to a certain extent you have had
0:19:48 > 0:19:51to modify some of your language and some of your policy positions, what
0:19:51 > 0:19:55has happened to all of the anger and resentment that you used to channel,
0:19:55 > 0:19:58and which is still in Finland, but which you are not channelling
0:19:58 > 0:20:00anymore, because you are now a big player inside the government?
0:20:00 > 0:20:12What has happened to that anger, where has it gone?
0:20:12 > 0:20:13The anger is always there.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15But our party didn't grow out of anger.
0:20:15 > 0:20:17Our party did grow out of political considerations
0:20:17 > 0:20:18and political assessments.
0:20:18 > 0:20:19That is what we grew out of.
0:20:19 > 0:20:23And as I said, we had a background from the Small Peasants Party.
0:20:23 > 0:20:26We were very critical to communism, and that was the mainstream
0:20:26 > 0:20:27and the background of the party.
0:20:27 > 0:20:28We had all kinds of people.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31We were the second-biggest in the government at
0:20:31 > 0:20:38the last election, second-biggest.
0:20:38 > 0:20:41But the point is, looking at the most recent opinion polls,
0:20:41 > 0:20:44and I'm sure you look at them more closely than I do, having got pretty
0:20:44 > 0:20:48much 18% in the last elections, you are now down to 10% or even lower.
0:20:48 > 0:20:50You have lost a lot of support.
0:20:50 > 0:20:54And I put it to you that some of that support has moved perhaps
0:20:54 > 0:20:55to the more extreme right.
0:20:55 > 0:20:58We see some phenomena in Finland today which are very worrying,
0:20:58 > 0:21:04for examples the Soldiers of Odin organisation.
0:21:04 > 0:21:05They have nothing to do with us.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08No, but the point is that some people feel you have betrayed
0:21:08 > 0:21:17the cause of true Finn nationalism by going over to them.
0:21:17 > 0:21:19We haven't betrayed anybody, not a single one.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22There were some people in your party who you're fired,
0:21:22 > 0:21:26one guy who said you used who used to be the deputy leader of your
0:21:26 > 0:21:28party, he says you guillotined him.
0:21:28 > 0:21:29It was for his own decision.
0:21:29 > 0:21:32I don't think that's how he felt about being guillotined.
0:21:32 > 0:21:37You must ask him.
0:21:37 > 0:21:39The serious point is, this isn't just about Finland.
0:21:39 > 0:21:41Right across Europe, there are dangerous,
0:21:41 > 0:21:43alarming signs of radicalism and extremism on the far right.
0:21:43 > 0:21:47What do you think is the best way to deal with that, including the
0:21:47 > 0:21:54Soldiers of Odin, inside Finland?
0:21:54 > 0:22:04First we must make a definition.
0:22:04 > 0:22:06The Finns Party is not an extreme party.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09You cannot imagine that Finns Party would hold a Deputy Prime Minister's
0:22:09 > 0:22:09seat.
0:22:09 > 0:22:13And when we talk about these issues, it seems to be forgotten many times.
0:22:13 > 0:22:15The second-biggest economic agenda, education agenda, all kinds of these
0:22:15 > 0:22:25kinds of agendas, and we usually just talk about these minorities.
0:22:25 > 0:22:28But I am heavily against all kinds of violence, all kinds
0:22:28 > 0:22:44of malfeasance in human rights.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47Except you did say earlier that everybody deserves a second chance,
0:22:47 > 0:22:49even those who are stealing.
0:22:49 > 0:22:52I said in his case he earned a second chance, but I never,
0:22:52 > 0:22:53ever accept anything racist.
0:22:53 > 0:22:56And you cannot find a single quarter for me saying, for 40 years roughly
0:22:56 > 0:23:00in my political career, that I have said a single racist thing, ever.
0:23:00 > 0:23:06And I am the leader of the party.
0:23:06 > 0:23:08Yes, you are.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11And a final point, which I think again has resonance not just
0:23:11 > 0:23:12for Finland, but for Europe.
0:23:12 > 0:23:14Erkka Railo, one of the leading political scientists
0:23:14 > 0:23:29in the country, says this.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31So far, from what has happened in Finland since the 2015 election,
0:23:31 > 0:23:34it looks like it is possible to tame a populist party.
0:23:34 > 0:23:37If they are in a minority position in a coalition government,
0:23:37 > 0:23:40they have to make concessions, the sorts of concessions that make
0:23:40 > 0:23:41their own supporters unhappy.
0:23:41 > 0:23:42That's the truth, isn't it?
0:23:42 > 0:23:45This is funny, because I wrote my own thesis at
0:23:45 > 0:23:47the University of Helsinki, 1988, delivering the same kinds of stuff,
0:23:47 > 0:23:50what Erkka Railo says right now.
0:23:50 > 0:23:52You agree with him?
0:23:52 > 0:23:53You have been tamed?
0:23:53 > 0:23:54Not tamed, but the situation has changed.
0:23:54 > 0:23:57And then, when it has changed, we must live
0:23:57 > 0:24:04in the world we're living in.
0:24:04 > 0:24:06You don't like the word "tamed".
0:24:06 > 0:24:07Of course, well, it is unjust.
0:24:07 > 0:24:10Timo Soini, we have to end there, but thank you very much
0:24:10 > 0:24:11for being on HARDtalk.
0:24:11 > 0:24:37OK, thank you.
0:24:39 > 0:24:39Hello.
0:24:39 > 0:24:42For some areas this has been the driest spell of weather