0:00:05 > 0:00:06You're up to date on BBC News.
0:00:06 > 0:00:09Time now for HARDtalk.
0:00:09 > 0:00:14Welcome to HARDtalk. I'm Shaun Ley.
0:00:14 > 0:00:17From his Oscar winning score for The Lion King,
0:00:17 > 0:00:19through 12 Years A Slave to a series of superhero blockbusters, including
0:00:19 > 0:00:22the latest Batman vs Supermanm, Hans Zimmer is, as one director put
0:00:22 > 0:00:27it, "quite simply the contemporary composer to work with".
0:00:27 > 0:00:29German born, British educated, he never received formal musical
0:00:29 > 0:00:35training and he's a champion of technology.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38He is jealous rivals say he isn't a real musician.
0:00:38 > 0:00:41Does he think all of the superhero films are proof
0:00:41 > 0:00:43of creative exhaustion in Hollywood, and is the technology he
0:00:43 > 0:00:46so loves killing the music makers?
0:01:14 > 0:01:15Hans Zimmer, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:01:15 > 0:01:18You called your talent a gift, rather than something you worked at.
0:01:18 > 0:01:24Is that how you think of composing?
0:01:24 > 0:01:26I think the operative word in music is play
0:01:26 > 0:01:32and people used to always ask me, "when did you start playing music?"
0:01:32 > 0:01:36and I used to make up a date, when I was six years old, or whatever.
0:01:36 > 0:01:37It was never true.
0:01:37 > 0:01:41You had some lessons?
0:01:41 > 0:01:44Yeah, I had two weeks of piano lessons, but it was very dramatic.
0:01:44 > 0:01:48My mum said when I was a kid, because I was just playing,
0:01:48 > 0:01:49"Do you want a piano teacher?
0:01:49 > 0:01:54"Do you want to learn?"
0:01:54 > 0:01:58I thought he was going to teach me that stuff that was in my head,
0:01:58 > 0:01:59to somehow magically appear in my fingers.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01Instead I had to play Mozart.
0:02:01 > 0:02:03So I was just rebelling against that.
0:02:03 > 0:02:06Within two weeks he turned to my mother and said, "it's either him
0:02:06 > 0:02:09or me", and fortunately she made the right choice for me.
0:02:09 > 0:02:14It could have gone the other way!
0:02:14 > 0:02:17So there were ideas trapped in your head and you needed some way
0:02:17 > 0:02:18to bring them out.
0:02:18 > 0:02:21Now that you can bring them out, where do the ideas come from?
0:02:21 > 0:02:22I have...
0:02:22 > 0:02:26Well, I was going to say I have no idea.
0:02:26 > 0:02:27I do have an idea.
0:02:27 > 0:02:28The idea is...
0:02:28 > 0:02:31I live this rather luxurious life which is basically this -
0:02:31 > 0:02:35when you're a kid and your mum tells you bedtime stories, about the best
0:02:35 > 0:02:38thing that can happen to you, I get grown men phoning me telling
0:02:38 > 0:02:42me, "I want to tell you a story".
0:02:42 > 0:02:44A director like Chris Nolan phones me and goes,
0:02:44 > 0:02:46"I want to tell you a story".
0:02:46 > 0:02:50And as he is telling the story I'm starting to hear sounds and I'm
0:02:50 > 0:02:56starting to hear fragments of tune.
0:02:56 > 0:02:58Then with great hubris I say, "Yes!
0:02:58 > 0:02:59"I have an idea!
0:02:59 > 0:03:00"I can do this!"
0:03:00 > 0:03:03And then I sit there for weeks and weeks and go, "Why did I ever
0:03:03 > 0:03:07say yes to this because I have no idea how to do it!"
0:03:07 > 0:03:08So there's no eureka moment?
0:03:08 > 0:03:15There is a slog?
0:03:15 > 0:03:17There are small, clawed at moments, yes.
0:03:17 > 0:03:20It's really when you watch it with an audience for the first time,
0:03:20 > 0:03:24you really know where you are going wrong and where you are going right.
0:03:24 > 0:03:25And...
0:03:25 > 0:03:28You know, look, it is a struggle, but it's a glorious struggle.
0:03:28 > 0:03:40I wouldn't swap it for anything else.
0:03:40 > 0:03:40Let's pause.
0:03:40 > 0:03:43You mentioned Christopher Nolan, we'll look at an extract
0:03:43 > 0:03:45from one of the films you composed for him, Interstellar,
0:03:45 > 0:03:47and this is where Matthew McConaughey's character is in the
0:03:47 > 0:03:52car with this son and daughter and they're in hot pursuit of a drone.
0:03:52 > 0:03:56GENTLE ORCHESTRAL MUSIC PLAYS.
0:04:11 > 0:04:21It's an Indian Air Force drone!
0:04:21 > 0:04:23When you began work on that score, how much
0:04:23 > 0:04:25about the film did you know?
0:04:25 > 0:04:27Ah.
0:04:27 > 0:04:30I ran into Chris somewhere and he said, "How about this?"
0:04:30 > 0:04:33If he were to write one page and not tell me what
0:04:33 > 0:04:37the movie was about, would I give him one day and write whatever was
0:04:37 > 0:04:46coming to me from this page.
0:04:46 > 0:04:49And so this envelope appeared, I had a free Sunday.
0:04:49 > 0:04:51I opened it and it was a beautiful type written,
0:04:51 > 0:04:53not computer, type written page.
0:04:53 > 0:04:56A letter which was basically a fable about a father and his son.
0:04:56 > 0:04:59Now, I have a son and Chris knows him very well.
0:04:59 > 0:05:02It was very poignant and very moving and in return I wrote
0:05:02 > 0:05:10a love letter in music to my son, or about my relationship with my son.
0:05:10 > 0:05:12I phoned Chris's house at about ten o'clock at night
0:05:12 > 0:05:16and caught Emma, his wife, on the phone and said, "I've done it,
0:05:16 > 0:05:20do you want me to send it over?"
0:05:20 > 0:05:23And she goes, "Well, actually, Chris is curiously antsy.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25"Do you mind if he comes by?"
0:05:25 > 0:05:29So he came down and sat down on my couch and I said I'd play him this
0:05:29 > 0:05:35little fragile, very personal piece.
0:05:35 > 0:05:38I can't look at people when I play them something for the first time
0:05:38 > 0:05:42just in case the sort of fleeting disgust creeps across their face.
0:05:42 > 0:05:46So I get to the end of it and I turn around and I say, "So,
0:05:46 > 0:05:55Chris, what do you think?"
0:05:55 > 0:05:56And he goes...
0:05:56 > 0:05:57"Hmm.
0:05:57 > 0:05:59I suppose I'd better make the movie now."
0:05:59 > 0:06:00I said, "What is the movie?"
0:06:00 > 0:06:03And he starts describing space and this huge canvas.
0:06:03 > 0:06:04At one point I interrupted and said, "Look,
0:06:04 > 0:06:07all I've done is I've written you this fragile, really personal tune.
0:06:07 > 0:06:14"How does this all fit in?"
0:06:14 > 0:06:17And he said, "I now know where the heart of the story is".
0:06:17 > 0:06:19We just carried on working like this, through conversation.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22He was shooting, I'd be here writing away and it really was...
0:06:22 > 0:06:24I can honestly say it was a co-creation.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26Absolutely hand in glove, the two of us working together.
0:06:26 > 0:06:39Not always typical of how a music composition in a film works.
0:06:39 > 0:06:40No, this was highly atypical.
0:06:40 > 0:06:41But Chris always...
0:06:41 > 0:06:43We've worked together now for about 12 years.
0:06:43 > 0:06:45So he just...
0:06:45 > 0:06:47He tries to sort of give me something...
0:06:47 > 0:06:51He tries to make it fun for me, he tries to make it interesting.
0:06:51 > 0:07:06He tries to shake it up a bit.
0:07:06 > 0:07:10How much do you think he's revealed about you by the music you produced?
0:07:10 > 0:07:10Ah...
0:07:10 > 0:07:13That's a question I didn't expect, but I shall answer it truthfully.
0:07:13 > 0:07:17First of all, we're speaking in my second language here and I can hide
0:07:17 > 0:07:20behind words brilliantly, but I feel I can't ever hide behind music.
0:07:20 > 0:07:23That's why I can't look at Chris when I play him something
0:07:23 > 0:07:24for the first time.
0:07:24 > 0:07:35I think that is the true me, in the music.
0:07:35 > 0:07:37So music is your conversation in a sense?
0:07:37 > 0:07:40Not only that, I think I am completely exposed and
0:07:40 > 0:07:43you can completely see into me and I have to have the courage to bare
0:07:43 > 0:07:52my emotion and to be accounted for.
0:07:52 > 0:07:55Elmer Bernstein, who composed films, as you would well know,
0:07:55 > 0:07:57for scores like To Kill a Mockingbird, Magnificent Seven
0:07:57 > 0:08:00and so on, said, "The dirty little secret of film composition is that
0:08:00 > 0:08:02we are not musicians at all, we are dramatists".
0:08:02 > 0:08:03Absolutely.
0:08:03 > 0:08:06This is the conversation.
0:08:06 > 0:08:08Chris and I only talk about story.
0:08:08 > 0:08:10Or any of the directors I work with.
0:08:10 > 0:08:13I always get asked, how do you talk about music with a director?
0:08:13 > 0:08:14Well, you don't.
0:08:14 > 0:08:17You play the music and you talk about the story
0:08:17 > 0:08:22and you try to stick on story.
0:08:22 > 0:08:24Let's pause again and hear another of your compositions,
0:08:24 > 0:08:27one that many will recognise immediately, one you won an Oscar
0:08:27 > 0:08:35for, the score from The Lion King.
0:08:35 > 0:08:39Now, The Lion King, that does reveal something about Hans Zimmer.
0:09:00 > 0:09:04Oh, so much.
0:09:04 > 0:09:11I didn't want to do the movie.
0:09:11 > 0:09:13I had never done what I called "a cartoon",
0:09:13 > 0:09:16they're called animated movies if you have some grace about it.
0:09:16 > 0:09:20But I had a six-year-old daughter, Zoe Zimmer, who is now 28, and like
0:09:20 > 0:09:48all fathers I wanted to show off.
0:09:48 > 0:09:50I wanted to take my princess to the ball.
0:09:50 > 0:09:53And I thought, oh, it gives me an opportunity to take
0:09:53 > 0:09:54her to a premiere.
0:09:54 > 0:09:57So I took this, thinking it would be fun, fuzzy animals, et cetera.
0:09:57 > 0:10:00But the core of the story is really about a father
0:10:00 > 0:10:02dying and the child left behind.
0:10:02 > 0:10:05My father died when I was six and suddenly I found myself having to
0:10:05 > 0:10:08confront something that I had never had the opportunity to confront.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11You had a very close relationship with your mother and you didn't
0:10:11 > 0:10:12really talk much about your father?
0:10:12 > 0:10:13No, never.
0:10:13 > 0:10:14In that very Germanic way.
0:10:14 > 0:10:16We have no emotions, we are German.
0:10:16 > 0:10:17That sort of thing.
0:10:17 > 0:10:19You just don't talk about these things.
0:10:19 > 0:10:20So suddenly I find myself confronted with...
0:10:20 > 0:10:24The only way I know how to write is you have to write from the heart.
0:10:24 > 0:10:27And I really wrote this requiem for my father.
0:10:27 > 0:10:30And part of what was interesting for me was, don't ever say no, don't
0:10:30 > 0:10:33turn things down because there's always something in there that will
0:10:33 > 0:10:46be personal that you can latch onto and that'll surprise you.
0:10:46 > 0:10:48So it started out as something to impress
0:10:48 > 0:10:51your daughter and it ended up being a way of resolving some unaddressed
0:10:51 > 0:10:52emotions about your dead father?
0:10:52 > 0:10:55And actually the clip you showed, my friend who is that voice
0:10:55 > 0:10:58at the beginning of the film, and this was two years ago
0:10:58 > 0:11:01and we realised it was the first time we ever played it live.
0:11:01 > 0:11:17The first time we ever played it together since we wrote it.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20And of course you weren't able to be at the recording, were you?
0:11:20 > 0:11:23Because there were doubts about your politics for the South Africans.
0:11:23 > 0:11:26Because by that point I had done two anti-apartheid movies and I remember
0:11:26 > 0:11:28being in this meeting at Disney where they were discussing,
0:11:28 > 0:11:32with me in the room, who would take over the score when Hans gets killed
0:11:32 > 0:11:33or imprisoned in South Africa?
0:11:33 > 0:11:37And finally the head of music says, you know, look, you're all crazy,
0:11:37 > 0:11:38he's not going!
0:11:38 > 0:11:39And I was incredibly...
0:11:39 > 0:11:46What do you mean I'm not going?
0:11:46 > 0:11:49You get so involved in these things that you do become
0:11:49 > 0:11:53a little bit reckless.
0:11:53 > 0:11:56Well, you have to be reckless to do it.
0:11:56 > 0:11:59I was happy to go to Africa and die for this movie.
0:11:59 > 0:12:10So my friends went and I was incredibly envious.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13You describe yourself earlier this year in an interview with the Times
0:12:13 > 0:12:17as like "a little dog who sees a postman's uniform and I still
0:12:17 > 0:12:18like to snap at the legs".
0:12:18 > 0:12:22There's a kind of subversive spirit in some of the early films, but now
0:12:22 > 0:12:25you've become the sort of go-to man for the Hollywood blockbuster.
0:12:25 > 0:12:35Something's changed, hasn't it?
0:12:35 > 0:12:39If you look at Dark Knight, etc, Dark Knight is a 100% punk score.
0:12:39 > 0:12:40I mean, it's just...
0:12:40 > 0:12:43I hide it a bit, but if you talk to the orchestral players, and most
0:12:43 > 0:12:47of these people I've worked with all my life, they know there's a bit
0:12:47 > 0:12:51of the old Sex Pistols and mainly The Clash creeps into things.
0:12:51 > 0:12:54Of course you were involved with Ultravox back in 1980.
0:12:54 > 0:13:01A little bit.
0:13:01 > 0:13:04There's a whole musical world that predates your cinema work.
0:13:04 > 0:13:04Absolutely.
0:13:04 > 0:13:06I was a starving session musician in London.
0:13:06 > 0:13:19In fact, I feel slightly guilty being here because the last thing I
0:13:19 > 0:13:22did here was a miniseries for the BBC and I believe I went ?25 over
0:13:23 > 0:13:49budget and I remember hearing...
0:13:49 > 0:13:50Probably your name's on a blacklist now.
0:13:50 > 0:13:53No, the immortal words, "You'll never work for the BBC again".
0:13:53 > 0:13:56So I went to Hollywood and did Rain Man.
0:13:56 > 0:13:57And the rest, as they say, is history.
0:13:57 > 0:13:58Yeah, exactly.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01You are now back in Europe and about to tour a live show.
0:14:01 > 0:14:03I wonder whether music that's been conceived
0:14:03 > 0:14:06for the cinema can really make that transition to the concert hall?
0:14:06 > 0:14:09Well, that was my experiment when we did the Hammersmith shows.
0:14:09 > 0:14:10Because of course you have...
0:14:10 > 0:14:13It has become more and more of a trend that you have
0:14:13 > 0:14:14the movie and an orchestra.
0:14:14 > 0:14:17And for me, this is my personal opinion, what happens is
0:14:17 > 0:14:20I get really excited about the orchestra for the first five
0:14:20 > 0:14:24minutes and then if the movie is any good I am fully in the movie and
0:14:24 > 0:14:26they might as well not be there.
0:14:26 > 0:14:27Is that what worried you about audiences?
0:14:27 > 0:14:29They would come to a concert and, actually,
0:14:29 > 0:14:30they wouldn't be that interested?
0:14:30 > 0:14:35Yeah, they wouldn't be that interested.
0:14:36 > 0:14:39Yes, so I had a couple of ideas, all concerts, because the other form
0:14:39 > 0:14:42is that you go to the Hollywood Bowl and there is a conductor
0:14:42 > 0:14:46and the orchestra, and your evening basically is a man with his back to
0:14:46 > 0:14:48you and a bunch of people reading the paper,
0:14:48 > 0:14:50so it looks like an old marriage.
0:14:50 > 0:14:52I thought, this is not it either.
0:14:52 > 0:14:54So, you have recreated the spectacle, but in a sense,
0:14:54 > 0:14:57with the singers and light effects, isn't that an admission that this
0:14:57 > 0:14:59is music that has to complement a visual experience,
0:14:59 > 0:15:05it doesn't stand in its own right?
0:15:05 > 0:15:09I try to write every piece on consignment to stand on its two
0:15:09 > 0:15:12feet, and with false modesty, I have heard these pieces performed without
0:15:12 > 0:15:13amazing lights etc and they do work.
0:15:13 > 0:15:15Because I think part of it...
0:15:15 > 0:15:16Here is the thing.
0:15:16 > 0:15:20You are supposed to serve the movie and to remember the days when it was
0:15:20 > 0:15:21background music and all of this.
0:15:21 > 0:15:24I remember hearing Walter Goldsmith say once if you wrote it,
0:15:24 > 0:15:25he wants you to hear it.
0:15:25 > 0:15:37Be bold.
0:15:37 > 0:15:41In a desire to be bold, have we ended up in a position where there
0:15:41 > 0:15:43is just too much music in movies?
0:15:43 > 0:15:45I totally agree with you.
0:15:45 > 0:15:47Telling us how to feel at a particular moment rather than
0:15:47 > 0:15:50letting the acting and natural sound and the pauses
0:15:50 > 0:15:59and director bring that out of us?
0:15:59 > 0:16:00Weirdly I might have thought about this.
0:16:00 > 0:16:04I did a movie called The Thin Red Line, and it was a long
0:16:04 > 0:16:07process and involved process that made me think about what we can do.
0:16:07 > 0:16:11I realised what my job should be, at its best, it's to give you the
0:16:11 > 0:16:15opportunity to open the door and say to you, you have permission to feel.
0:16:15 > 0:16:18I'm not going to tell you what to feel or manipulate you in that way,
0:16:18 > 0:16:21and Ridley Scott used to say sentimentality is under emotion,
0:16:21 > 0:16:22and I think he is right.
0:16:22 > 0:16:25Maybe I was writing a bit more, dotting every I, and crossing every
0:16:25 > 0:16:29T, in the old days, but now it is more of a dialogue
0:16:29 > 0:17:00between the audience and myself.
0:17:00 > 0:17:03Here is some more of that dialogue, from the film that is the latest one
0:17:03 > 0:17:06associated with Hans Zimmer, and that is that man versus Superman.
0:17:06 > 0:17:08You know you can't win this.
0:17:08 > 0:17:15It is suicide.
0:17:15 > 0:17:22The greatest gladiator match in the history of the world.
0:17:22 > 0:17:24The son of Krypton versus the man of Gotham.
0:17:24 > 0:17:27It is time you learned what it means to be a man.
0:17:27 > 0:17:28Stay down.
0:17:28 > 0:17:30If I wanted it, you would be dead already.
0:17:30 > 0:17:34In its opening weekend, it grossed $420 billion worldwide.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36Million dollars.
0:17:36 > 0:17:36Sorry, million dollars.
0:17:36 > 0:17:39It is still a lot to gross in an opening weekend.
0:17:39 > 0:17:42I wonder if this film illustrates part of the problem that Hollywood
0:17:42 > 0:17:53has gone into, rehashing old ideas.
0:17:53 > 0:17:56Let me talk about it from a personal point of view.
0:17:56 > 0:17:59I did that man with Chris 12 years ago, so the Dark Knight Trilogy
0:17:59 > 0:18:02might be 12 years to you, but it is longer for me.
0:18:02 > 0:18:03How should I say it?
0:18:03 > 0:18:06I have officially retired from the super hero business
0:18:06 > 0:18:07because it is just me.
0:18:07 > 0:18:11I started to find, this one was very hard for me to do, to try to find
0:18:11 > 0:18:12new language and settling fresh.
0:18:12 > 0:18:16I did it in collaboration with a friend of mine who just did
0:18:16 > 0:18:17the Mad Max movies.
0:18:17 > 0:18:18We have been friends forever.
0:18:18 > 0:18:47That was very important to have another voice.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50Do you agree with what Steven Spielberg had to say
0:18:50 > 0:18:52in February, when he told The Associated Press, we were around
0:18:52 > 0:18:56when the Western died and there will be a time when the superhero movie
0:18:56 > 0:18:57goes the way of the Western?
0:18:57 > 0:19:12Do you think we might be reaching that point?
0:19:12 > 0:19:15I think we still have a few superhero movies but ...
0:19:15 > 0:19:17If somebody gives you another envelope
0:19:17 > 0:19:20and says another story about a bloke in tights with special powers,
0:19:20 > 0:19:21does your heart sink slightly?
0:19:21 > 0:19:25As a cheque you probably look at it and say maybe my heart rises again.
0:19:25 > 0:19:28I really and truly, in my heart believe no-one can write for money.
0:19:28 > 0:19:29You can't be inspired.
0:19:29 > 0:19:30Money is not very inspiring.
0:19:30 > 0:19:32Fear of a deadline is.
0:19:32 > 0:19:34If you look at this as logical characters, some kind of weird
0:19:34 > 0:19:36extension of Greek myths etc...
0:19:36 > 0:19:38I remember we were told at the beginning of this,
0:19:38 > 0:19:40we are just doing this one movie.
0:19:40 > 0:19:42Maybe in 100 years, because John Williamson did Superman
0:19:42 > 0:19:44before, there will be a different actor, different voices.
0:19:45 > 0:20:20It is just part of the mythology.
0:20:20 > 0:20:22So maybe a pause would be a good thing, not necessarily
0:20:23 > 0:20:24the end of the idea.
0:20:24 > 0:20:27Every movie comes down to the same thing, which is do
0:20:27 > 0:20:28we have a story or don't we?
0:20:28 > 0:20:31You mentioned that 12 years of your life was spent
0:20:31 > 0:20:32on the that man films.
0:20:32 > 0:20:34When you composed one of those films,
0:20:34 > 0:20:37that must have some painful memories for you because of what happened,
0:20:37 > 0:21:05the murder of 12 years people watching that film in Colorado.
0:21:05 > 0:21:08We had just arrived and I was supposed to do a phone interview.
0:21:08 > 0:21:11The journalist asked me for my comment about the tragedy,
0:21:11 > 0:21:13and I had not heard about it.
0:21:13 > 0:21:15He told me, so I went, I'm devastated.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17The whole day I was thinking about that word, devastated, how
0:21:17 > 0:21:18everybody would seem devastated.
0:21:18 > 0:21:22I picked up the phone and found a choir that I know, and a studio, and
0:21:22 > 0:21:24wrote a piece of music that night.
0:21:24 > 0:21:27I then recorded it the next morning with a choir, no words.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30I wanted the families, the survivors, to feel there were voices
0:21:30 > 0:21:33at the other end of the world, like arms reaching around them.
0:21:33 > 0:21:36I realised words were not the way I communicated, it had to be music.
0:21:36 > 0:21:39It sounds trivial, but we were so happy we had finished
0:21:39 > 0:21:42the movie, and it really was the end of an era for us.
0:21:42 > 0:21:45Since then, of course, that piece itself has taken on a whole
0:21:45 > 0:21:46other meaning, unfortunately...
0:21:46 > 0:21:50It means much more with what is going on in the world than it did
0:21:50 > 0:22:37in that moment in time now.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39That song, which you recorded to help support
0:22:39 > 0:22:42the victims' relief fund, you put it on Facebook initially.
0:22:42 > 0:22:44You are very engaged with technology and are a technology enthusiast.
0:22:44 > 0:22:47Do you worry that video killed the radio star and maybe technology
0:22:47 > 0:22:49is in danger of killing music?
0:22:49 > 0:22:52I can only speak personally, and I will say it's like this: You can
0:22:52 > 0:22:55accuse Hollywood of all sorts of dastardly things and everything you
0:22:55 > 0:22:59say about it will be true, but there is one thing it does really, it
0:22:59 > 0:23:02commissions orchestral music on a daily basis, and it is the last
0:23:02 > 0:23:05place on earth which commissions orchestral music on a daily basis.
0:23:05 > 0:23:08If we lose the orchestras, it is not just about my brothers
0:23:08 > 0:23:09in arms losing their income...
0:23:09 > 0:23:11There would be a rift in our humanity
0:23:11 > 0:23:15if we do not have that cultural gift of being able to see an orchestra.
0:23:15 > 0:23:18In that way, we actually serve quite a noble, I don't want to
0:23:18 > 0:23:19be that pretentious, purpose.
0:23:19 > 0:23:21I am clear that I don't want technology...
0:23:21 > 0:23:25And I am good at it because I have been doing it since the 70s, I don't
0:23:25 > 0:23:26want it to replace any musicians.
0:23:26 > 0:23:28You know something, it can't relate.
0:23:28 > 0:23:31Music is an interaction between the audience and the performance.
0:23:31 > 0:24:13If we lose that, we lose a huge chunk of conversation.
0:24:13 > 0:24:16Thank you so much for having this conversation with me on HARDtalk.
0:24:16 > 0:24:43Thank you.
0:24:43 > 0:24:43Hello there.
0:24:43 > 0:24:46Clear skies for many parts of the United Kingdom overnight, allowing
0:24:46 > 0:24:47temperatures to drop away sharply.
0:24:47 > 0:24:50It will be a chilly start across the board.