:00:00. > :00:08.Now on BBC News it's time for HARDtalk.
:00:09. > :00:18.Welcome to HARDtalk from Washington, DC. I am Stephen Sackur. The rules
:00:19. > :00:22.of American politics are being rewritten this election season. The
:00:23. > :00:27.rise of Donald Trump has shaken the Republican Party to its core. And as
:00:28. > :00:35.for the Democrats, well, the battle between Hillary Clinton and Bernie
:00:36. > :00:39.Sanders is really a struggle for the party's sole. My guess today is
:00:40. > :00:42.democratic Congresswoman Donna Edwards. She is a radical voice in
:00:43. > :01:06.the party who is now running for a seat in the Senate. Is America ready
:01:07. > :01:09.for genuinely left-wing politics? Congresswoman Donna Edwards, welcome
:01:10. > :01:15.to HARDtalk. Thank you. Good to be with you. There is a very deep
:01:16. > :01:20.feeling of frustration, anger, alienation amongst many Americans in
:01:21. > :01:25.the political system, with Washington and with politicians. You
:01:26. > :01:29.are an elected politician in Washington. Why is this feeling so
:01:30. > :01:40.strong? I am but I actually came into politics very different from my
:01:41. > :01:45.Coley. I worked in the private sector. I think I bring an outsider
:01:46. > :01:48.perspective -- colleagues. People are frustrated. Incomes have been
:01:49. > :01:51.stagnant for a couple of decades. Their children are having a hard
:01:52. > :01:58.time not just getting to college but paying for college. And I think that
:01:59. > :02:01.frustration is really understandable when they think that in Washington
:02:02. > :02:04.nothing can get done that makes a difference in their lives. So it is
:02:05. > :02:08.our job to change it. The interesting thing is how long you
:02:09. > :02:12.can be the outsider when you are inside the system, because you are
:02:13. > :02:15.in your fourth term as a democratic Congresswoman, so you have been in
:02:16. > :02:19.Washington for quite a while, and as you say you came as a real outsider,
:02:20. > :02:23.you have overcome real obstacles to make your political career, but that
:02:24. > :02:29.was a while ago and now you are inside. I came in in 2008 and of
:02:30. > :02:33.course that was the year that also swept in our new president, Barack
:02:34. > :02:38.Obama, and there was a lot of hope and interest, and I do think that I
:02:39. > :02:45.came in at a time where our economy was just in a whole and we have been
:02:46. > :02:49.digging out of that. And I think we have certainly faced that in my
:02:50. > :02:51.district, the state and country. Do you have a different perspective
:02:52. > :02:56.from your colleagues in the U.S. Congress? A little bit off your back
:02:57. > :03:00.story. You have known poverty in your own life. You have raised a son
:03:01. > :03:05.pretty much on your own for most of your life. You have had experiences
:03:06. > :03:09.which it is fair to say most politicians have not had. I think
:03:10. > :03:12.that is true and I think those experiences really inform the way I
:03:13. > :03:17.think about what my job is. You know, I wouldn't, I don't often
:03:18. > :03:21.describe myself as living in poverty but I certainly lived through
:03:22. > :03:26.struggle. Trying to figure out how to put food on the table and pay for
:03:27. > :03:29.the basics. I have walked in people's shoes and I think that is
:03:30. > :03:34.one of the things that folks know about me. That is the reason I bring
:03:35. > :03:37.that perspective to lawmaking. Because I think sometimes we can
:03:38. > :03:41.lose touch with the things that are most important in people's live.
:03:42. > :03:47.Let's think about politics today and your place in it. Would you describe
:03:48. > :03:52.yourself as a radical? Know but I am rebellious against the system that
:03:53. > :03:58.doesn't work for ordinary people -- no. And I and prepared to take on
:03:59. > :04:01.members of the opposite political party, the Republican Party, but I
:04:02. > :04:05.am prepared to take on members of my own political party if it means
:04:06. > :04:09.making a difference for the people who are like families like mine.
:04:10. > :04:14.People I have talked to an things I have read in the Washington insider
:04:15. > :04:16.political media call you confrontational. They say you don't
:04:17. > :04:21.have many friends and point out that in your race to win a Senate seat in
:04:22. > :04:24.Maryland you haven't even got the support of the congressional black
:04:25. > :04:29.caucus because they don't like you very much. I don't have the support
:04:30. > :04:32.of the congressional black caucus political action committee and the
:04:33. > :04:35.reason is because it represents a whole bunch of interest that I have
:04:36. > :04:40.challenged. It is not a surprise to me that the people who represent the
:04:41. > :04:44.pharmaceutical industry for example are not supportive of me. Why? I
:04:45. > :04:48.want to negotiate pharmaceutical drugs. It is not a surprise to me
:04:49. > :04:52.that the folks who represent the tobacco industry voted against me in
:04:53. > :04:55.the congressional black caucus because I think that we have a
:04:56. > :05:01.problem particularly with smoking among our young people and so what I
:05:02. > :05:04.would say is politics is not about just being friendly people, it is
:05:05. > :05:08.about getting things done that make a difference. It is about getting
:05:09. > :05:13.things done. That is crucial. Maybe there is one signal that you are a
:05:14. > :05:15.politician more interested in ideological purity than getting
:05:16. > :05:20.things done or making pragmatic deals across the aisle with your
:05:21. > :05:24.Republican opponents. That would be 2011, the big argument over the
:05:25. > :05:27.budget, when the Obama White House in the end pushed a compromise to
:05:28. > :05:32.get a budget through to put a new ceiling on the federal budget, it
:05:33. > :05:38.was not a compromise Obama love but he felt it was the only way to go.
:05:39. > :05:41.It got the support of congressional democratic leaders. But he did not
:05:42. > :05:45.get your support. You voted against it. You in a sense were lined up
:05:46. > :05:50.with the tea party activists on the republican side. I would say I was
:05:51. > :05:55.lined up with my colleagues from Marilyn, Alaia Cummings, who
:05:56. > :06:00.represents Baltimore, John Saab aims as well who represents Baltimore, I
:06:01. > :06:03.was lined with people who knew that putting in budget as a question in
:06:04. > :06:10.place would be a disaster for the middle class. In fact, democratic
:06:11. > :06:14.and Republicans since then have been tried to this which I voted
:06:15. > :06:17.against. You did with that vote contemplate shutting down the
:06:18. > :06:22.government, and what you say to those people in your own party who
:06:23. > :06:26.say, you know what, you, in a sense, are the mirror image of the Puritans
:06:27. > :06:29.on the republican side who call themselves the Tea Party. I don't
:06:30. > :06:36.agree with that at all. That is political nonsense. For example, I
:06:37. > :06:40.still run the Science and Technology Committee. I negotiated a bipartisan
:06:41. > :06:43.deal to fund Nasser which passed out of the House of Representatives with
:06:44. > :06:49.a Tea Party member. -- NASA. So I don't buy that. I think you make
:06:50. > :06:53.decisions based on your gut and my instinct tells me and told me that
:06:54. > :06:56.that budget surplus to would be a disaster and in fact from Marilyn to
:06:57. > :07:03.be lost over two and a half billion dollars in our economy because of
:07:04. > :07:08.that budget sequester. Do you think the Democratic Party today is not
:07:09. > :07:13.left wing enough? I don't know what that means. I get up every day and
:07:14. > :07:16.want to go to a job and I think most people want to go to a job that pays
:07:17. > :07:19.a decent wage and allows their children to do better than they did
:07:20. > :07:25.and allows them to meet their responsibilities. For example, let
:07:26. > :07:27.me take a specific issue, you have always supported the idea of taxing
:07:28. > :07:33.the rich, the very rich and corporate interests more than is
:07:34. > :07:36.currently the case and has been the case under Bill Clinton, Barack
:07:37. > :07:40.Obama and a series of democratic president as well as Republican
:07:41. > :07:44.presidents. That is you believe in the principle of redistribution in a
:07:45. > :07:48.way that many Americans do not. I don't buy that. I think that I
:07:49. > :07:53.believe in a tax system that really is fair and right now we have a
:07:54. > :07:58.system where a secretary and an executive assistant working in an
:07:59. > :08:03.office has a higher tax rate than her CEO boss. That is an unfair
:08:04. > :08:08.system that is actually starving our economy and I think that we ought to
:08:09. > :08:12.restore balance, go back to the tax rate that we had 20 years ago, that
:08:13. > :08:16.was a much more fair distribution for taxes. So it is not about
:08:17. > :08:20.redistribution but about making sure that the economy has what it takes
:08:21. > :08:24.to move forward. And do you think that the fact that a lot of
:08:25. > :08:28.Democrats don't talk that language, and are leery about getting involved
:08:29. > :08:33.in higher taxes on the rich, do you think that is one reason why, if you
:08:34. > :08:39.look at the basic stats, the Democratic Party is not in great
:08:40. > :08:42.shape? Why do you think that is? I think that as democrats we have to
:08:43. > :08:45.be the really clear about our agenda. Republicans are awfully
:08:46. > :08:50.clear about their agenda. And I think as democrats we have to be
:08:51. > :08:53.clear also that we are interested in making sure that there is a social
:08:54. > :08:57.safety net so that people can build and rebuild their lives and have a
:08:58. > :09:00.place in the economy, making sure that we have the protection is a
:09:01. > :09:03.social safety net so that people can build and rebuild their lives and
:09:04. > :09:12.have a place in the economy, making sure that we have the protections.
:09:13. > :09:16.That answer and everything we have discussed so far makes me puzzled
:09:17. > :09:21.about one thing, white, Congresswoman, argue backing Hillary
:09:22. > :09:27.Clinton and not the self-styled socialist, progressive Bernie
:09:28. > :09:32.Sanders? -- why. I am very excited about Bernie Sanders' candidacy
:09:33. > :09:36.because I think it has challenged my candidate, Hillary Clinton, to
:09:37. > :09:42.articulate a vision in my country I believe in. Why is she your
:09:43. > :09:44.candidate? Here is the reason. Long before I came into Congress I
:09:45. > :09:48.actually worked with Hillary Clinton on issues related to women and
:09:49. > :09:51.women's leadership and I believe in the power of women's leadership. And
:09:52. > :09:57.I think she will make a great president. You are voting for her
:09:58. > :10:00.because she is a woman? Well, I think that is an important
:10:01. > :10:04.consideration. Of course it is but in the end we are talking about the
:10:05. > :10:08.future of this country, and if your agenda... It seems it is true, if
:10:09. > :10:12.your agenda matches Bernie Sanders, he is the candidate who after all
:10:13. > :10:16.says he wants to dismantle Wall Street interests, take on big banks,
:10:17. > :10:21.he wants serious campaign finance reform, he wants a minimum wage at
:10:22. > :10:27.mean something to order Mary working Americans, $15 an hour, he wants to
:10:28. > :10:30.tear up the trade agreements Hillary Clinton that, these are issues where
:10:31. > :10:34.you seem to be on his side of the fence and not hers -- that. The
:10:35. > :10:37.thing is I supported President Obama but I don't agree with everything he
:10:38. > :10:41.does. We make choices about presidents that are about their
:10:42. > :10:45.leadership, about where we think that they can be challenged and
:10:46. > :10:49.where we think that they can be moved. There are a lot of different
:10:50. > :10:52.reasons that we make decisions for president and not because we agree
:10:53. > :10:58.on every single issue. And frankly, when people vote for me they don't
:10:59. > :11:02.vote for me because they agree with me about everything I do, it is a
:11:03. > :11:06.vision for the United States and I believe Hillary Clinton shares of
:11:07. > :11:11.those visions and values and she will make a great president. You of
:11:12. > :11:19.course are running for Senate in November and it is in a way it
:11:20. > :11:21.tempting to see it as a mirror of the Clinton- Sanders race because
:11:22. > :11:26.you are running against it is that say a centrist pragmatist moderate
:11:27. > :11:35.democratic opponent in the democratic primary here in Marilyn,
:11:36. > :11:39.Chris van Hollen. He is seen as a dealmaker. You have never sponsored
:11:40. > :11:43.a deal that has won Republican backing. I don't know what you're
:11:44. > :11:47.talking about. I negotiated a bill that passed out of the house of
:11:48. > :11:49.Representatives that was a bipartisan authorisation for our
:11:50. > :11:55.space programme that was very contentious because of funding for
:11:56. > :11:58.climate change. And I negotiated that with a colleague of mine from
:11:59. > :12:04.Mississippi and we don't share anything else in common. We managed
:12:05. > :12:06.to sit down and negotiate at high partisan negotiation that came out
:12:07. > :12:10.of the house and into the Senate without an issue. On space I stand
:12:11. > :12:14.corrected but here is the Washington Post verdict on your race until me
:12:15. > :12:18.why you are wrong -- why they are wrong if they are. Miss Donna
:12:19. > :12:23.Edwards, whose attributes don't admit a gift for team play, would
:12:24. > :12:27.reinforce the Congress tendency for stalemate along partisan lines. If
:12:28. > :12:34.leaving their dysfunction in the American Congress is important, and
:12:35. > :12:37.it is, then Mr van Hollen, the gifted legislator, is a better
:12:38. > :12:43.candidate. Well, I mean, you know, look, I am not gonna say what the
:12:44. > :12:48.Washington Post concludes, but I will tell you this - I feel like the
:12:49. > :12:54.reason that I am a header in the latest polls is because I have
:12:55. > :12:58.captured the energy, the hopes and dreams and aspirations of the people
:12:59. > :13:03.of the state of Marilyn -- ahead. The Washington Post editorial has
:13:04. > :13:08.cast a vote and voters will have an opportunity to speak on April 26.
:13:09. > :13:12.And lastly, I think that their characterisation of my work in the
:13:13. > :13:17.Congress is just wrong. I headed the bipartisan, the largest bipartisan
:13:18. > :13:21.caucus in the Congress, the women's walkers, with my Republican
:13:22. > :13:24.colleague, and it was our work together that led to the re-
:13:25. > :13:29.authorisation of the violence against women act. Let me bring it
:13:30. > :13:33.back to the national picture them, and we have discussed your, as you
:13:34. > :13:38.say, your long-term backing for Hillary and your belief that it is a
:13:39. > :13:42.question of integrity - you are going to remain with Hillary. Some
:13:43. > :13:45.look at the way in which leading voices in the African-American
:13:46. > :13:48.community such as yours have been so loyal to the Clintons, first Bill
:13:49. > :13:55.and now Hillary, and they believe that there is some sort of loyalty
:13:56. > :13:59.issue there which is overcoming the Clinton' failure to deliver on key
:14:00. > :14:04.policies that matter most of our people -- Clintons'. How do you
:14:05. > :14:07.respond to that? I don't have any particular loyalty. I don't know the
:14:08. > :14:12.Clintons personally. I have worked with Secretary Clinton in the
:14:13. > :14:18.context of her service as Secretary of State and prior to that in the
:14:19. > :14:23.non-governmental sector and I respect her leadership. I also
:14:24. > :14:26.respect the fact that I think that in the United States, unlike some of
:14:27. > :14:31.our eating European friends and allies and partners, that it is time
:14:32. > :14:36.to move forward on women's leadership and I think it will make
:14:37. > :14:38.a real difference in the conversation, in the kinds of
:14:39. > :14:45.policies that are put forward -- some of our European friends. A
:14:46. > :14:48.grateful we have a spirited democratic primary to challenge that
:14:49. > :14:51.wisdom and whoever comes out of the process as a democrat I will support
:14:52. > :14:55.as the President. I understand your point about the gender issue being
:14:56. > :15:00.important but if I may want to dig down on the race issue. Right now
:15:01. > :15:05.one of the most sort of passionate and interesting interventions in
:15:06. > :15:08.recent days was from Bill Clinton stumping for Hillary when confronted
:15:09. > :15:14.by a group of activists from black lives matter. They were condemning
:15:15. > :15:19.him for his use and I believe at the time Hillary's use of the phrase
:15:20. > :15:22.super predators to talk about urban gangland criminals and frankly it
:15:23. > :15:28.was black criminals in the mid- 90s around the time of the Clintons',
:15:29. > :15:33.Bill Clinton's Reinach and many black activists are troubled by some
:15:34. > :15:37.of the language that will Clinton used and Hillary used later -- crime
:15:38. > :15:43.act. -- Black Lives Matter. It seems to dehumanise the black community.
:15:44. > :15:49.I was troubled by it too, I worked on the violence against women act in
:15:50. > :15:55.1994 that was incorporated under the crime Bill, I actually opposed the
:15:56. > :15:59.crime Bill Sisley because I thought that we had instituted a set of
:16:00. > :16:06.criminal justice policies that, as we've come to find out, has resulted
:16:07. > :16:13.in the further incarceration of more African-Americans, more Latinos in
:16:14. > :16:18.the country. We had evidence then, as we have evidence now, that those
:16:19. > :16:25.criminal justice policies failed to prevent crime. In fact I've
:16:26. > :16:29.supported legislation that would increase contributions for
:16:30. > :16:33.education, for those who are incarcerated, that would get rid of
:16:34. > :16:37.mandatory minimum sentences, that would make certain we have a
:16:38. > :16:40.criminal justice system that in fact works to rehabilitate and restore
:16:41. > :16:44.our communities. Here's the question, we had eight years of Bill
:16:45. > :16:50.Clinton, who had the overwhelming support of black voters, then we
:16:51. > :16:54.have just ending eight years of Barack Obama, the first black
:16:55. > :16:57.American president and a man who also was absolutely committed from
:16:58. > :17:01.the beginning to working on racial healing and looking after the
:17:02. > :17:08.interests of all communities, not just the majority community. Why,
:17:09. > :17:13.given 16 years of Democratic presidents committed to that sort of
:17:14. > :17:18.policy, is the lot of African-Americans today in many ways
:17:19. > :17:20.worse than it's ever been, if you look at economic statistics, law
:17:21. > :17:24.enforcement violence against the black community. What's gone wrong
:17:25. > :17:26.is the lot of African-Americans today in many ways worse than it's
:17:27. > :17:28.ever been, if you look at economic statistics, law enforcement violence
:17:29. > :17:33.against the black community. What's gone wrong? We've. I don't think
:17:34. > :17:37.it's fair to assign the current plight just to the 16 years of
:17:38. > :17:43.Democrats, what about the last 30 years that we've had of Republican
:17:44. > :17:48.presidents were we've had policies greatly disadvantage in black
:17:49. > :17:51.people. But it's the direction of travel. One of the reasons I'm
:17:52. > :17:56.running for the U.S. Senate is I believe it's important for my
:17:57. > :18:00.perspective on these issues to be represented in the Senate so we can
:18:01. > :18:04.advance policies that can make a difference in peoples lives, whether
:18:05. > :18:09.those are black citizens or middle-class citizens, people who
:18:10. > :18:13.have often been left out of the public policy conversation. That's
:18:14. > :18:16.why I think it's important to have someone like me around that table in
:18:17. > :18:21.the United States Senate so whoever sits in the White House, we're able
:18:22. > :18:27.to advance policies that make a difference for communities. Have you
:18:28. > :18:33.been disappointed by Barack Obama's actions on this particular issue?
:18:34. > :18:39.No, I have not. First of all, I think starting out when Barack Obama
:18:40. > :18:44.took office in 2009, digging us out of one of the worst recessions we've
:18:45. > :18:47.had in generations, trying to rebuild the economy, rebuild jobs
:18:48. > :18:52.that were lost in black communities... Do I think we have
:18:53. > :18:57.challenges? Yes we have challenges, some of those challenges are about
:18:58. > :19:01.how we have this invested over the course of Democratic and Republican
:19:02. > :19:05.residents in our urban core, and changing the prospects in urban
:19:06. > :19:08.communities, and that's a serious contributing factor to the
:19:09. > :19:13.circumstance that African find themselves in. Let's talk about
:19:14. > :19:17.rooting out racism in particular, American, Eric Holder, black
:19:18. > :19:22.attorney general appointed by Obama in 2009, although this nation has
:19:23. > :19:26.talked about itself as a black melting pot, but in this nation we
:19:27. > :19:34.have always been and continue to be in too many ways a nation of
:19:35. > :19:40.cowards. You're talking about somebody running for the United
:19:41. > :19:44.States Senate as the second black woman in the United States Senate. I
:19:45. > :19:51.don't think I need to be challenged on where it is we need to go and the
:19:52. > :19:57.problem of our own history. Are not challenging view, I'm challenging
:19:58. > :20:02.your partner. The way we change that history is change politics so I can
:20:03. > :20:06.be in a position to challenge my colleagues that I'm not. We have a
:20:07. > :20:12.wretched history when it comes to race politics over the last 240
:20:13. > :20:17.years. That was not going to be undone by eight years of a black
:20:18. > :20:24.president. But it can be undone by a different kind of Senate and another
:20:25. > :20:31.White House. This can be done. You spoke and wrote very movingly after
:20:32. > :20:37.the killing... A number of killings by police of unarmed young black men
:20:38. > :20:40.in recent years, one was not very so far from your Congressional
:20:41. > :20:44.district, Freddie Gray in Baltimore, and after Freddie Gray's death you
:20:45. > :20:49.wrote about the fact you have to talk to your own son, who is a
:20:50. > :20:54.teenager? No, he's 27. You were reflecting on what you used to tell
:20:55. > :20:59.him as a teenager, you said if a police officer stops you, always
:21:00. > :21:04.make sure they can see your hands, don't reach for anything, please
:21:05. > :21:08.don't mouth off, you can do that when you get home safe. Is that the
:21:09. > :21:13.way you feel, and other black women who are the mothers of teenage black
:21:14. > :21:19.sons, feel today? I've think so and it's a reality check. The fact is we
:21:20. > :21:24.have a lot of great law enforcement officers. But we also have a culture
:21:25. > :21:29.within law enforcement that it's not always interacted well in black
:21:30. > :21:36.communities. There are things we can do about that. Things like law
:21:37. > :21:41.enforcement training, training, cultural sensitivity, making sure we
:21:42. > :21:45.have transparency and accountability and civilian participation in that
:21:46. > :21:52.accountability. The goal as black people, we want to live in safe
:21:53. > :21:56.communities too so we have to work in cooperation with law enforcement
:21:57. > :22:01.to make communities safe. Where a work in progress, so plenty of work
:22:02. > :22:06.to be done. Final thought. We've talked a lot about Obama and Hillary
:22:07. > :22:10.too, I guess always the tension in the Democratic party is the degree
:22:11. > :22:14.to which you can stand by your principles and also get stuff done
:22:15. > :22:18.in an environment where in the end getting stuff done means working
:22:19. > :22:23.with at least some Republicans. Do you believe if you win your race to
:22:24. > :22:31.get into the Senate that you have the right balance between, sort of,
:22:32. > :22:36.purity of principle and pragmatism? Well, I've proven that. I've proven
:22:37. > :22:42.that over and over again both before I came into Congress, and certainly
:22:43. > :22:46.now since I've been there. My willingness without compromising
:22:47. > :22:50.principal. But there are plenty of issues that we work on that are just
:22:51. > :22:54.about work, they're not about principal. For example I've got kids
:22:55. > :22:59.in Maesteg who now get free breakfast and lunch as well as
:23:00. > :23:04.dinner -- Maesteg. There's nothing Republican or Democrat about making
:23:05. > :23:08.sure kids get nutritious meals so they can fully recognise their
:23:09. > :23:13.academic achievement. Those are things we can work on an plenty of
:23:14. > :23:20.others. I think we have to have full heads prevailing, and if we focused
:23:21. > :23:24.not at the 30,000 foot level, but on the ground and people and their
:23:25. > :23:29.lives, then we will get those things done across the aisle. I started by
:23:30. > :23:34.asking you if the US public still had faith in the political system,
:23:35. > :23:38.do you? I do. I can remember working on my first political campaign when
:23:39. > :23:43.I was 15, and the energy and excitement I felt about that, and I
:23:44. > :23:48.feel it about the system because I believe it works. We've had peaks
:23:49. > :23:53.and valleys over the last 240 years, but I believe in it. And as I go
:23:54. > :24:00.around our communities, I meet people all the time who do as well,
:24:01. > :24:04.and that young Harold ten years old in Baltimore, excited about maths
:24:05. > :24:08.and science and wanting to do well in school, and our job is to deliver
:24:09. > :24:13.for her. Congresswoman Donna Edwards, thank you for being on
:24:14. > :24:39.HARDtalk. Thank you. That was really good. Really appreciate it.
:24:40. > :24:42.Yesterday ended with quite a variety of weather across the