:00:00. > :00:00.Now on BBC News, Stephen Sackur talks to
:00:00. > :00:26.Beyond all the rules, it is a physical contact in which bodies are
:00:27. > :00:30.hurt and lives at risk. That was grimly evident in March
:00:31. > :00:34.when British boxer Nick Blackwell almost died after a bout with
:00:35. > :00:38.Chris Eubank Jr. Eubank Sr now manages
:00:39. > :00:41.and mentors his son, despite vowing many years ago to
:00:42. > :01:21.keep his kids away from boxing. Why is boxing still in his blood?
:01:22. > :01:31.Chris Eubank, welcome to HARDtalk. Let's start with the thought of what
:01:32. > :01:36.it is like for you, as a former champion, who has taken beatings and
:01:37. > :01:42.deliver many beatings, now to stand in the corner of the ring and watch
:01:43. > :01:50.your son go through the same raw, brutal competition - what does it
:01:51. > :01:59.feel like? What does it feel like? Is it harder in some ways? No. No,
:02:00. > :02:06.he has complied to what I have instructed him to do. I have
:02:07. > :02:11.built... No one can build a fighter like any other fighter. I encouraged
:02:12. > :02:18.him to stay away from boxing, he would not and so, after four years,
:02:19. > :02:24.I said, OK, you will have to follow instructions and if you do, you may
:02:25. > :02:31.have a chance, even to fail, because it is the only possible task to make
:02:32. > :02:38.champion of the world. The way I helped Junior is I have given him
:02:39. > :02:43.nothing. I have only put upon him pressure, insurmountable amount of
:02:44. > :02:49.pressure, tasks he was not supposed to able to compete and he has come
:02:50. > :02:55.through them so what you have in a Junior, as a fighter, who is a great
:02:56. > :03:03.fighter, even who is renowned to be the best boxer in the world at
:03:04. > :03:09.middleweight division, Golovkin, Golovkin, in my view, when I use my
:03:10. > :03:14.experience, my knowledge of boxing and looking at him, he is an all
:03:15. > :03:21.round, comprehensive, very good fighter. Junior is a great fighter.
:03:22. > :03:29.Do you think he can be a world champion? I know, I do not think. My
:03:30. > :03:40.concern is my opponents. A couple of months ago, Junior, as you call him,
:03:41. > :03:44.was involved in a pretty brutal bout with Nick Blackwell. It ended at the
:03:45. > :03:49.end of the 10th round, Nick Blackwell was in a bad way and was
:03:50. > :03:57.rushed to hospital and was in a coma for a long time and almost died.
:03:58. > :04:02.Thankfully, he has recovered. Yes. What did it do to you and more
:04:03. > :04:08.particularly, what did it do to your son? It has fortified his resolve.
:04:09. > :04:14.His view is, he does not want that to happen to him. He has intensified
:04:15. > :04:20.his training. He is going to be harder, more ferocious, more brutal.
:04:21. > :04:29.He is going to become more for Russia's and that is exactly what I
:04:30. > :04:37.hearing from the gene. Ronnie, who used to train me, is telling me
:04:38. > :04:42.that. He's in the gym and working harder than he was. What about
:04:43. > :04:49.elements of compassion or empathy - I mean, he knows that Nick Blackwell
:04:50. > :04:57.almost died and his career has finished. He will not box again. As
:04:58. > :05:01.a matter of fact, he did die and they revived in in the ambulance. It
:05:02. > :05:05.is very serious. Can I make this point?
:05:06. > :05:10.Two days before the flight, at a press conference - you can see
:05:11. > :05:14.it on YouTube now - I say to Nick, "you are in danger and I am going
:05:15. > :05:17.to ask the referees to mind you." Now, he took it as some type
:05:18. > :05:18.of psychological, um... The usual trash talking boxing way,
:05:19. > :05:21.yeah. But you were being serious?
:05:22. > :05:25.But he was warned - it's there. They say I was not compassionate.
:05:26. > :05:29.Of course I was and it proves it by you looking at that footage
:05:30. > :05:32.of this press conference when I actually explain to him that you
:05:33. > :05:37.should not be fighting Junior because junior had been brought up
:05:38. > :05:41.by this very peculiar father. I made world champion,
:05:42. > :05:44.I defended it 18 times. You know, the way I did that was
:05:45. > :05:50.not through ordinary behaviour. I had to behave exceptionally
:05:51. > :05:53.in order to achieve what I did and so therefore, I said, "believe me,
:05:54. > :05:58.you are and I will ask the referees to be mindful of you" to which he
:05:59. > :06:02.said "Well, thanks for caring." A throwaway comment and two days
:06:03. > :06:05.later, look exactly what happened. Let's talk a little bit
:06:06. > :06:07.about what happened because it has become quite controversial.
:06:08. > :06:11.During the fight, as the rounds went on, you were seem
:06:12. > :06:14.to be very animated and I think you said afterwards, you were slapping
:06:15. > :06:19.the canvas at one point, trying to get the referees to stop the fight.
:06:20. > :06:24.Banging on the canvas and I'm talking about violently.
:06:25. > :06:26.Okay... What did you say to your son
:06:27. > :06:28.at one point? Again, some dispute
:06:29. > :06:32.about what you meant but you appeared to be telling him to ease
:06:33. > :06:35.off the punches to the head. I said to him, leave his head alone.
:06:36. > :06:38.This was an independant...this was independent of what was said
:06:39. > :06:41.in the eighth...the rest of the seventh round.
:06:42. > :06:44.It was independent of that. I said to him leave
:06:45. > :06:51.his head alone as I am always telling in sparring because he is
:06:52. > :06:57.throwing like 130 punches a round. He's throwing 30, 40, 50 punch
:06:58. > :07:03.combinations - this is unheard of. You know, people throw five, six,
:07:04. > :07:06.seven punch combinations. He has what I refer to
:07:07. > :07:10.as seven gears. Let's be simple about this.
:07:11. > :07:13.Were you at that point - if you felt Blackwell was really in trouble -
:07:14. > :07:16.were you trying to save him? What was going on in your mind?
:07:17. > :07:21.In my mind, this man is not in a fight.
:07:22. > :07:25.As I said to Junior at the end of the seventh round, I do not know
:07:26. > :07:30.why the referee has not stopped it. I then ended my advice to him
:07:31. > :07:33.as follows, "Leave his face alone. You're not going to take out there,
:07:34. > :07:37.take him out in the body." The referee should have stopped
:07:38. > :07:41.the fight three rounds before. Now, here is my view - Junior,
:07:42. > :07:46.or fighters, they have their set of eyes, they have my set of eyes or
:07:47. > :07:51.the trainers, the cornerman's set of eyes, and they have a third set of
:07:52. > :07:53.eyes which is in my case, Ronnie. Okay, now, the referee should have
:07:54. > :07:55.a second pair of eyes. There should be another referee
:07:56. > :07:59.actually looking at a contest because what happened
:08:00. > :08:02.there was not fair to Nick. Do you think professional boxing
:08:03. > :08:05.needs to reassess the way in which referees work and the way
:08:06. > :08:06.in which boxers' abilities to carry on is monitored?
:08:07. > :08:18.Yes. Professional boxing does not like
:08:19. > :08:23.that message. They have responded to that fight by saying the referees
:08:24. > :08:27.did everything right and nothing could have been done and sometimes
:08:28. > :08:36.these accidents happen. I do not want to speak against them but I
:08:37. > :08:42.have been in their, I know the life, I know the pain, I know the
:08:43. > :08:50.Esat beatings I have experienced, I feel them. -- that bitter beatings.
:08:51. > :08:56.I am not a clairvoyant, I have just seen it before. I want to talk about
:08:57. > :09:03.the eerie echoes in his bout with Nick Blackwell that go back to your
:09:04. > :09:08.bout in 1991, and other monumental fight with Michael Watson which
:09:09. > :09:15.ended, again, after an amazing compelling fight with Watson almost
:09:16. > :09:19.dead. He had the clot the size of a saucer inside his brain. The doctor
:09:20. > :09:25.treating him said he had never seen one like that before after a month
:09:26. > :09:31.in coma is survived but was disabled and remained disabled to this day.
:09:32. > :09:38.Everything you are discussing suggests you'll experience tells you
:09:39. > :09:42.boxing is horrible. Boxing is life-threatening for all of those
:09:43. > :09:49.in. Why do you find it still so compelling, so attract it? Because
:09:50. > :09:54.you have to be true, you have to be honest, you have to have integrity,
:09:55. > :10:05.you have to have fortitude. Integrity must be your call. The
:10:06. > :10:09.warrior is strong yet he is fragile. His decisions cannot be based on the
:10:10. > :10:16.frailty of man. You talk about the warrior code but in honest moments
:10:17. > :10:20.you have said that that fight scarred you for ever and if I have
:10:21. > :10:26.any regrets it is about Michael Watson. You carried what you did to
:10:27. > :10:32.him through the rest of your life. I have done and I will carry on and it
:10:33. > :10:40.makes reference to all that you are asking about glorious, fighters,
:10:41. > :10:46.radiators. His decisions cannot be based on the frailty of and his,
:10:47. > :10:53.however, fuelled by a divine inspiration. He knows not anger and
:10:54. > :10:57.only fear is the unknown. The warrior does not judge because his
:10:58. > :11:03.true assignment is to deliver evidence of superior behaviour. He
:11:04. > :11:13.knows no friend tears. He only sees horizons... The warrior is a
:11:14. > :11:19.creature to ensure peace. He knows, excerpts and embraces above all
:11:20. > :11:25.integrity which is the reason, the application of reason - which is his
:11:26. > :11:33.only weapon and forgiveness. That is the cope with which we yearn to...
:11:34. > :11:38.You and your son are different. You said this in the wake of what
:11:39. > :11:44.happened to your son, he said I want Junior to be different from me. I
:11:45. > :11:49.was scarred. I have regrets. I do not want him to be anything but
:11:50. > :11:57.ruthless, cold eyed and ferocious. It seems to me, you are telling your
:11:58. > :12:03.son to leave out mercy. That is a very strange message for most people
:12:04. > :12:10.watching around the world. The pre- requisite of a father is to protect
:12:11. > :12:17.your son. I giving him the best way to protect himself. He has to be
:12:18. > :12:25.this way. He has to be ruthless. But outside the ring, we are gentle, we
:12:26. > :12:33.are kind, we are gatekeepers within the community. When you, after the
:12:34. > :12:39.Nick Blackwell fight were in the corner, three days later when Nick
:12:40. > :12:43.Blackwell were still in a coma, you and your son spoke to the press and
:12:44. > :12:47.talked about your desire to see your son fight even more for racial
:12:48. > :12:54.slick, you said he was going to be a champion. Nick Blackwell's family
:12:55. > :13:03.work in fury eight. This is what he said after he woke up, my family
:13:04. > :13:09.begged him not to talk and if I could have one more knockout shot I
:13:10. > :13:17.would love to lend it on the dual of Chris Eubank. LAUGHTER it is funny,
:13:18. > :13:23.Nick did not say that. They are perhaps other people who may have
:13:24. > :13:31.disseminated that but it is not to nick any favours... Did not make you
:13:32. > :13:35.feel bad? No, not at all. It is petty and small and insignificant.
:13:36. > :13:41.We are what we are. This is the fight business. The fact I have to
:13:42. > :13:47.look after or have compassion towards him and I not in his
:13:48. > :13:52.corner... Its magnanimous, it is magnanimous... It is what boxing...
:13:53. > :14:00.It is what I would like people to see that boxing can project. That we
:14:01. > :14:05.have chivalry, that we can be kind, object did. It is not just about
:14:06. > :14:10.hurting the man. He was never in the fight. I mean, there are people who
:14:11. > :14:15.say that fight was close, the fight was competitive. Listen, if a man
:14:16. > :14:21.does not have the sense... If he has so much hard but not the skill to
:14:22. > :14:25.protect his heart, then he is going to get hurt and it is for his corner
:14:26. > :14:28.and the referees to be protective of him. Like I said two days before at
:14:29. > :14:43.the press conference. years ago in 1998, it is sad that
:14:44. > :14:49.you did not want your children to go into boxing. -- you said you did
:14:50. > :14:55.not. Do you have a feeling that you failed, because your son is now
:14:56. > :15:01.obviously very successful in boxing? Him being the British champion, that
:15:02. > :15:06.was his calling, as he says. Me trying to stop him, for the three or
:15:07. > :15:11.four years that I did, that only fuelled his imagination. It is not
:15:12. > :15:16.that I didn't try, but when he got to about 15 or 16 years old, I had
:15:17. > :15:22.to say, well, rather than lose my son, loses respect, I had to say,
:15:23. > :15:27.well, if you want to do this than I am going to show you the way. --
:15:28. > :15:30.lose his respect. Like you, he was getting into trouble at the time.
:15:31. > :15:34.You are a troubled kid, you were thieving, you are in trouble with
:15:35. > :15:38.the police. It was only when you ended up in New York and discovered
:15:39. > :15:45.boxing that you turned your life around. Your own son, similarly, was
:15:46. > :15:48.getting into trouble. You, to some people, bizarrely, then took him to
:15:49. > :15:51.America and put him in the custodianship of an American woman
:15:52. > :15:56.in Las Vegas for a while, so he could train in Vegas. You left him
:15:57. > :15:59.behind. Was that because you felt that boxing have saved you, and you
:16:00. > :16:07.concluded that may be boxing could save him to? If he could actually
:16:08. > :16:11.get through, or bypassed the insurmountable hurdles that he would
:16:12. > :16:15.experience in the melting pot of boxing which was lost Vegas at the
:16:16. > :16:22.time, and still is, then yes, I thought... You gave your signup. No,
:16:23. > :16:26.why would you gave that to me? You know that I will refute that. Of
:16:27. > :16:31.course I didn't. If a youngster who is under the age of 17 or 18, is in
:16:32. > :16:36.the United States, they have to have a guardian. Of course I did not give
:16:37. > :16:38.my children up. It is nonsense. Let me make this point about
:16:39. > :16:45.professional boxing, and the Olympics. Because I think... Well,
:16:46. > :16:49.there is some talk of putting professional boxers, even the
:16:50. > :16:55.greatest Oxus like Manny Pacquiao, into the Olympics. Yes, the idea
:16:56. > :17:01.actually came from myself in 2012. Most people in boxing think it is a
:17:02. > :17:05.terrible idea. The idea is that professionals would compete with
:17:06. > :17:08.other professionals. So let's say that Chris Eubank Junior,
:17:09. > :17:11.representing the UK, would face the top middleweight from America, or
:17:12. > :17:16.Argentina. We will see how that pans out... Let me just make the point.
:17:17. > :17:20.There is no money involved in the Olympics, so they would not be paid.
:17:21. > :17:25.That is really the hurdle. But in my view, if you are a patriot, or if
:17:26. > :17:28.you are representing your country, then the government of that country
:17:29. > :17:32.will endorse you, and when the government endorses you, then
:17:33. > :17:37.blue-chip as this is within the country will sponsor or endorse you
:17:38. > :17:41.as well. -- blue-chip businesses. It seems like a fantastic idea to me,
:17:42. > :17:45.and for anybody who says it is not, tell me where the floors are. Show
:17:46. > :17:50.me the chink in the armour. I think it is a marvellous idea. You still
:17:51. > :17:55.have big ideas for boxing, and now you are very involved with your
:17:56. > :18:00.son's Korea. Indeed. I just wonder how hard it was for you to stop
:18:01. > :18:04.being a boxer yourself. You have always been a guy who loves the
:18:05. > :18:07.limelight, and since boxing you have done a series of reality TV shows
:18:08. > :18:14.and other things. "Love the limelight"? I have earned my
:18:15. > :18:20.position, sir. Fame was not thrust upon me. I had to achieve my fame,
:18:21. > :18:25.and I am very respectful of it, and I guard it. It is what I have. It is
:18:26. > :18:37.my true wealth. And it is a marvellous world. But have you
:18:38. > :18:41.struggled, with all of the I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here, and
:18:42. > :18:45.Celebrity Big Brother, and buying your fine clothes in Seville Grove,
:18:46. > :18:53.have you struggled since boxing to find the adrenaline rush, the kit,
:18:54. > :18:57.that boxing gave you? -- Savile Row. No, I am still the same person. I
:18:58. > :19:03.did not do this part-time. I was obsessed with what I did. But were
:19:04. > :19:07.you obsessed with the celebrity, with the fame that came with it?
:19:08. > :19:12.Were you obsessed with the fame that came with being a champion boxer?
:19:13. > :19:20.Was I insist that? No, not obsessed. It is what I am. I cannot help but
:19:21. > :19:24.the response from my career and the fights which I have been involved
:19:25. > :19:29.with, I cannot help but this has brought along this wonderful, this
:19:30. > :19:34.extraordinary wealth of the hearts of the people. There is no better
:19:35. > :19:40.wealth you can have. In my view, no, this is a privilege, it is a
:19:41. > :19:45.responsibility, I have to encourage people to understand that it is a
:19:46. > :19:52.marvellous world. But you enjoy... No, I don't enjoy it, I love it. You
:19:53. > :19:57.can't live without it? Well, it is the life I made, it is the bad I
:19:58. > :20:00.made. When I was taking that beating in the Michael Watson fight, I knew
:20:01. > :20:04.that I had to stay there and take it. I knew that I could not win the
:20:05. > :20:08.fight, even though it turned out otherwise. When I could not win, I
:20:09. > :20:18.got up off the ground and struck him with a shot that got me the fight.
:20:19. > :20:22.That type of behaviour, that... Immortalise me, for the time that I
:20:23. > :20:27.am going to be alive. -- immortalised. I am talking about you
:20:28. > :20:32.struggling to give up what boxing gave you, partly because you have
:20:33. > :20:36.discussed boxing again, publicly. You are approaching your 50th
:20:37. > :20:40.birthday, but you and one of your great adverse areas of the past,
:20:41. > :20:43.Nigel Benn, have talked about going back into the ring and fighting
:20:44. > :20:48.against. -- great adversaries. Is that going to happen? I would love
:20:49. > :20:52.it to happen, for this reason. Most of the country would say that you
:20:53. > :20:58.cannot do that, and that is exactly what I need. It has always been what
:20:59. > :21:04.has motivated me to actually achieve. I have been forced to be a
:21:05. > :21:07.world champion. If I was not for style would never have become a
:21:08. > :21:11.world champion. It was because the public said I couldn't, and because
:21:12. > :21:15.the public said I couldn't, that gave me the fuel to achieve my
:21:16. > :21:18.objectives. But the point now, and this goes back to other parts of our
:21:19. > :21:22.conversation, about the risks and the hurt and the pain involved in
:21:23. > :21:28.boxing, you are now almost 50 years old. So is Nigel Benn. You should
:21:29. > :21:32.not, for your own health, be going back into the ring, and IDSA be
:21:33. > :21:36.British boxing board of control would not give you a licence to go
:21:37. > :21:44.back into the ring. -- I dare say the British. At 80 years old, I want
:21:45. > :21:49.to be jumping off high bridges into rivers. I want to be able to dance
:21:50. > :21:53.and climb and fight. I want to be able to look at strawberries, I want
:21:54. > :21:57.to look at nature. You also want money. Nigel Benn says the fight
:21:58. > :22:02.might not happen because you are demanding 70% of the purse, that is
:22:03. > :22:07.what he said. That is business. I am not a businessman, I am an idealist.
:22:08. > :22:11.Do not speak to me about money. Are you prepared to go 50-50 with Nigel
:22:12. > :22:18.Benn, which he says would be the basis of a certified? Maybe. For me,
:22:19. > :22:23.that would be neither here or there. For me, it is about whether I can
:22:24. > :22:26.re-engineer my body to withstand the terrifying ordeal that he is going
:22:27. > :22:30.to put me through. The danger, I have never been more alive than I
:22:31. > :22:38.have been in danger. -- then when I have been. I love risk. Do you
:22:39. > :22:42.actually love boxing, though? I look at the recent reporting of boxing,
:22:43. > :22:46.obviously we have had the tragedies in the ring with health, but we have
:22:47. > :22:49.talked about that. There is also lots of sleaziness about the way
:22:50. > :22:53.that boxing is promoted, about the different belts and the different
:22:54. > :22:59.organisations that try to manipulate boxing. Drugs, as well. It is a
:23:00. > :23:05.very, very horrible business in many different ways. So why go back into
:23:06. > :23:09.it yourself? Because it needs me. What do you mean it needs you? It
:23:10. > :23:15.doesn't need you. In my view, it does. You see, I am a gatekeeper. In
:23:16. > :23:22.my view, boxing needs someone who will brigade rest of pressure. --
:23:23. > :23:27.bring a Rath of pressure. So I am building might own promotional
:23:28. > :23:31.company. We are looking for a broadcaster right now. Once I get
:23:32. > :23:36.one, we will be churning out champions. Are you still saying it
:23:37. > :23:40.is not about money? The way you are talking to me now speaks of money.
:23:41. > :23:45.Money is part of life. You cannot get away from it. But there are so
:23:46. > :23:52.many other principles which are so good for the community. Boxing is a
:23:53. > :23:59.fantastic tool for youngsters. Youngsters today, the ones who are
:24:00. > :24:03.crude, they are discarded, they are said to be no good. I am one of
:24:04. > :24:11.those crude kids. Think of crude oil. It has to be refined. If you
:24:12. > :24:14.refined these kids, who are crude, you can end up with individuals who
:24:15. > :24:20.can contribute towards the system, as I am doing. All right. That is an
:24:21. > :24:23.interesting way to leave our conversation. Chris Eubank, thank
:24:24. > :24:42.you for being on HARDtalk. My pleasure. Thank you.
:24:43. > :24:46.Sunday wasn't a bad day for many parts of the British Isles.
:24:47. > :24:49.There was some low cloud to contend with in the east.
:24:50. > :24:52.Notice the isobars on the western flank,