:00:00. > :00:00.Party. It was published on Weibo.. It has been widely shared. That's
:00:00. > :00:14.all from me. Welcome to HARDtalk,
:00:15. > :00:23.I'm Stephen Sackur. The British Brexit vote has
:00:24. > :00:26.detonated a political explosion which is reverberating
:00:27. > :00:32.across Europe. And now
:00:33. > :00:34.EU leaders are desperate to prevent the uncertainty and political chaos
:00:35. > :00:37.here in London spreading across the European Union,
:00:38. > :00:38.and threatening to unravel My guest today is France's energy
:00:39. > :00:45.and environment Minister, Is France determined to get tough
:00:46. > :00:53.on Britain to discourage people in other EU nations
:00:54. > :00:55.from contemplating a dash Segolene Royale,
:00:56. > :01:14.welcome to HARDtalk. Your Prime Minister, Manuel Vals,
:01:15. > :01:17.said the Brexit vote is an electric shock, an explosion
:01:18. > :01:19.on a world scale. Just how dangerous do you believe
:01:20. > :02:11.Britain's vote to have been? I sense a tone of anger
:02:12. > :02:14.in your voice and in your answer, do you think the British
:02:15. > :02:17.government, maybe the British people too,
:02:18. > :02:19.understand the depth of anger and alienation being felt
:02:20. > :02:21.in Paris and across There is already a debate
:02:22. > :03:10.about when the negotiations Your President and
:03:11. > :03:18.Prime Minister have suggested they want those formal
:03:19. > :03:24.negotiations to start as soon as possible, and indeed one source
:03:25. > :03:27.close to President Hollande said nothing would be worse than a long
:03:28. > :03:29.drawnout negotiation and France is going to exert pressure
:03:30. > :03:36.with that in mind. So how are you going to pressure
:03:37. > :03:39.the British to implement Article 50 and to get
:03:40. > :04:12.these talks going? But you can't make David Cameron
:04:13. > :04:15.trigger Article 50, he has the right to delay it and he has said
:04:16. > :04:18.because he is now leaving office he will leave it to
:04:19. > :04:21.the next Prime Minister to decide how and when to implement
:04:22. > :04:25.Article 50 and begin the formal I just don't see how the French
:04:26. > :04:31.government can actually It's a British decision,
:04:32. > :04:37.it's not a French But it's not your gift,
:04:38. > :05:01.it's not your decision. As you say, there are all sorts
:05:02. > :05:52.of ways Britain's relationship with the EU matters
:05:53. > :05:54.but the number one issue above all others is the economy
:05:55. > :05:58.and what kind of trade deal the UK can expect with the
:05:59. > :06:00.European Union after Now, one senior Conservative
:06:01. > :06:07.minister who may be putting his hat into the ring to be the next leader,
:06:08. > :06:18.Jeremy Hunt, has just written this. He said, "We must negotiate
:06:19. > :06:22.for the UK full access to the single market with a sensible
:06:23. > :06:24.compromise on the freedom But with respect, that was
:06:25. > :07:04.then and this is now. I suppose it comes down to this,
:07:05. > :07:07.whether you are minded, you in the French
:07:08. > :07:08.government and other European governments,
:07:09. > :07:11.whether you are minded to look for a compromise with
:07:12. > :07:13.the United Kingdom to maintain a very strong relationship,
:07:14. > :07:15.or whether there's an element punishment that you feel the UK
:07:16. > :07:18.will have to be punished, will have to face serious
:07:19. > :07:20.negative consequences But with respect, isn't that
:07:21. > :08:08.precisely why there are some members of your government in France
:08:09. > :08:14.who say, the Brits cannot be given a good deal because
:08:15. > :08:16.if the deal looks too good it will simply encourage
:08:17. > :08:18.others to think about making The word is contagion.
:08:19. > :08:40.Are you worried about that? The mayor of Calais has said that
:08:41. > :08:43.as a result of the Brexit vote, there should be a complete
:08:44. > :08:46.rethinking of the so-called Le Touquet Treaty of 2003 which sees
:08:47. > :08:48.British immigration officials working on French soil and,
:08:49. > :08:50.in effect, going through the passport controls
:08:51. > :08:52.and procedures on French Now, the argument is that
:08:53. > :09:06.after Brexit, the French have the right to tear up
:09:07. > :09:09.the Le Touquet treaty and tell the British that they should do it
:09:10. > :09:54.for themselves in Britain. So let's have clarity
:09:55. > :09:57.and truth on one other bilateral issue which could be
:09:58. > :10:01.affected by all the uncertainty that comes with the Brexit vote,
:10:02. > :10:04.and that is in a sense part And the massive French
:10:05. > :10:12.investment in a new nuclear power station at Hinkley Point
:10:13. > :10:23.in the west of England. It's vastly expensive,
:10:24. > :10:25.it's going to cost at And, according to one leading
:10:26. > :10:32.energy expert in the UK, Paul Dorfman, he says,
:10:33. > :10:34."After all of the uncertainty that comes with Brexit,
:10:35. > :10:36.it is extremely unlikely that the French energy
:10:37. > :10:38.company EDF will continue with its investment and plan
:10:39. > :10:40.for Hinkley Point". But the project looks
:10:41. > :11:25.very different... But it has a lot to do
:11:26. > :11:27.with confidence and uncertainty and doesn't the project looks very
:11:28. > :11:31.different now Britain is in the midst of
:11:32. > :11:33.complete political chaos, long-term economic uncertainty
:11:34. > :11:38.and EDF, which is 85% owned by your state, why would
:11:39. > :11:40.it want to continue with this project amid
:11:41. > :12:21.so much uncertainty? A log of your fellow French men
:12:22. > :12:24.and women I think have lost faith in Europe, and when you say you want
:12:25. > :12:28.Europe to go in a deeper more integrated direction,
:12:29. > :12:31.many will listen to Marine Le Pen. She hailed the British referendum
:12:32. > :12:37.result, she said it was a victory for freedom and you know
:12:38. > :12:39.the National Front right now commands well over 20%
:12:40. > :13:20.support your country. It's not David Cameron's fault that
:13:21. > :13:26.Marine Le Pen is increasingly When she delivers
:13:27. > :13:29.a message, which is deeply Eurosceptical, which is now
:13:30. > :13:31.demanding a referendum, how are you going to persuade French
:13:32. > :13:34.people that she hasn't got But in essence you're saying
:13:35. > :13:48.you will never allow the French people to have their own
:13:49. > :13:51.fundamental say on whether I don't think it's democracy
:13:52. > :14:08.if you only think one answer is right and the other
:14:09. > :14:52.is unacceptable. You can't say that you too find
:14:53. > :14:58.the European Union frustrating and then say in the next
:14:59. > :15:01.breath that you and the president want more Europe,
:15:02. > :15:03.deeper, more integration. Either you want more
:15:04. > :15:06.Europe or you don't and if you do many, particularly
:15:07. > :15:08.perhaps in other parts of the European Union,
:15:09. > :15:11.like Eastern Europe, The Czech Foreign Minister said
:15:12. > :15:22.Brexit in the end... The fault lies in
:15:23. > :15:25.Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the Commission
:15:26. > :15:27.and the mentality of federalism in He said people like
:15:28. > :15:34.Juncker need to resign. So there are real divisions
:15:35. > :16:23.inside the European Union. But the fact is, and I am sure
:16:24. > :16:26.you look at the opinion polls just like I do, that the French
:16:27. > :16:29.are increasingly Eurosceptic as a whole,
:16:30. > :16:34.but also the Front National, the voice of euroscepticism
:16:35. > :16:39.in France, is increasingly popular. The reason they are so popular
:16:40. > :16:43.is because the established parties, including yours,
:16:44. > :16:45.the Socialist Party, According to the French historian
:16:46. > :17:29.Marc Lazar he says the party, the Socialists, are deeply
:17:30. > :17:31.divided on almost every In a way you appear to be abandoned
:17:32. > :17:40.by the working class voters who used to be the foundation
:17:41. > :17:44.of the Socialist Party. They now look to Marine
:17:45. > :17:48.Le Pen, because they believe she represents
:17:49. > :18:18.their interests more than you do. But right now President Hollande
:18:19. > :18:21.is in a battle with unions, who say he has fundamentally
:18:22. > :18:25.betrayed the interests of working people by pushing
:18:26. > :18:28.through a neoliberal economic agenda, changing labour
:18:29. > :18:33.laws to make it much easier to fire Again, the Socialist
:18:34. > :18:40.Party seems to be lost. You seem to have lost your sense of
:18:41. > :19:44.who you are and who you represent. You are a very experienced
:19:45. > :19:46.politician, you have run for the presidency before,
:19:47. > :19:49.you are still a very senior President Hollande's ratings
:19:50. > :19:57.are the lowest in history. 80% of the French people disapprove
:19:58. > :20:01.of what he's doing and 75% say that on no account should
:20:02. > :20:05.he consider running Either you will find
:20:06. > :20:12.a new candidate or you will have to accept that the next
:20:13. > :20:30.presidential election is lost. You look very excited and I've been
:20:31. > :20:37.reading the French newspapers and some French
:20:38. > :20:38.commentators believe that you and your approval
:20:39. > :20:40.ratings are much higher than Francois Hollande's
:20:41. > :20:43.and you are a credible candidate for the Socialist Party
:20:44. > :20:46.to be president, Let's end this interview
:20:47. > :21:22.by going back to the beginning. We began by talking
:21:23. > :21:25.about the explosion which has happened in Europe
:21:26. > :21:28.because of Brexit. What Europe needs now
:21:29. > :21:31.is strong leadership. Will Europe have to
:21:32. > :22:11.rely on Angela Merkel? You are very, very, very angry
:22:12. > :22:43.with David Cameron, aren't you? And if you were in this room not
:22:44. > :22:46.with me but with David Cameron and you had the chance
:22:47. > :22:49.to tell him what you thought of his decision-making
:22:50. > :22:51.and his legacy, as he is now about to leave office
:22:52. > :22:54.so we can think about his legacy, what
:22:55. > :24:05.would you say to him? Segolene Royal, we have
:24:06. > :24:07.to end there, but thank June, 2016 is now
:24:08. > :24:48.a thing of the past. Not all the stats are in
:24:49. > :24:51.but the provisional ones suggest it will go down as a rather
:24:52. > :24:55.damp and a dull month.