:00:08. > :00:17.a great British actor whose body of work represents a paradox.
:00:18. > :00:20.In the public mind Diana Rigg will forever be linked
:00:21. > :00:24.with performances which were almost a sideshow in her long career.
:00:25. > :00:28.I'm thinking of her role in the Avengers, and as a Bond girl.
:00:29. > :00:31.Both attracted huge attention, but it is in the theatre that she's
:00:32. > :00:35.won critical acclaim and a host of awards.
:00:36. > :00:39.Now she has an iconic role in the hit series Game of Thrones.
:00:40. > :00:41.So how's it been dealing with the fickleness
:00:42. > :01:16.and unpredictability of an acting life?
:01:17. > :01:28.Dame Diana Rigg, welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you. Is it your
:01:29. > :01:34.approach to acting today similar to the way it has always been or hasn't
:01:35. > :01:41.changed radically? It sets more less the same. I asked a friend who has
:01:42. > :01:46.known me for 50 years - when you are working with younger people, the
:01:47. > :01:55.waves of ambition come across to you and I asked if I was ambition and he
:01:56. > :02:00.said, no, you were always grateful. Having done so much over such a long
:02:01. > :02:06.period, I imagining you feel much more confident about who you are and
:02:07. > :02:11.where you are going and what you have achieved and if that makes a
:02:12. > :02:18.difference? Yes, of course it does. I have always loved working. I do
:02:19. > :02:25.not live to work. I have always had a life beside my work. A balanced
:02:26. > :02:32.life because I didn't back now, at my age you tend to, and I have
:02:33. > :02:39.always had a pretty full personal life as well as, thank goodness, I
:02:40. > :02:43.have been so lucky with my professional life. I get the feeling
:02:44. > :02:49.you love what you do. When you started you had to put bread on the
:02:50. > :02:55.table but now you do it simply because you choose to and it is fun.
:02:56. > :03:04.Yes, but also, I simply do not understand people who decry what
:03:05. > :03:10.they do. Actors talk about were children really at heart, we are
:03:11. > :03:16.half formed, living out fantasies, it is very belittling to a
:03:17. > :03:25.profession which actually goes back to 640 BC... One is that actors are
:03:26. > :03:31.people deeply insecure and in search of an identity so that is why they
:03:32. > :03:36.are drawn to a job where they play other people... I take exception to
:03:37. > :03:45.that. Not great exception. I think they are Lishman based to that. --
:03:46. > :03:50.they are full leash when they think like that. You have to have a
:03:51. > :03:55.profound knowledge of the human condition and yourself recalls what
:03:56. > :03:58.happens when you accept apart, you have to measure the distance between
:03:59. > :04:06.yourself and that part and you have to feel it with truth. Saraceno and
:04:07. > :04:13.said I look on our part to see if it is in nature and if it is on it can
:04:14. > :04:20.played. So you have to turn that written page into nature. On that
:04:21. > :04:28.nature, are there many paths you do not believe in them? No. LAUGHTER If
:04:29. > :04:35.I do not believe in it, it is a bit of a challenge. I have to make it
:04:36. > :04:41.believable. And actually, talking about belief, it is one of the most
:04:42. > :04:47.moving things about again our profession being in the theatre that
:04:48. > :04:53.people come to believe. They lend you their belief. They do not come
:04:54. > :05:00.cynically. They want to believe and this is great, great gift that they
:05:01. > :05:05.give us. You talk about the theatre and we will talk more about it but
:05:06. > :05:11.starting in the here and now and we've back. Here and now too many
:05:12. > :05:18.people is about the role you have found in one of the biggest TV
:05:19. > :05:22.series of our age, that is Game of Thrones. It is full of young starlet
:05:23. > :05:27.actors but also a wonderful part for you. How did it feel getting
:05:28. > :05:33.involved in something that has become such a current cult? Was not
:05:34. > :05:39.aware that I was getting involved in something so huge for top are really
:05:40. > :05:46.had no idea. As ever, I was deeply grateful to get the part in such a
:05:47. > :05:58.good part. I really enjoy doing it. You're part, and Lady, something of
:05:59. > :06:05.a Herod? She is also pretty evil. I am good and evil. Let's see how good
:06:06. > :06:15.you are. You can because you need our help. What is your name again?
:06:16. > :06:23.You look like an angry little boy. Do not presume to tell me what you
:06:24. > :06:33.need. Forgive me... You, shut up. Anything for you? No, good. Let the
:06:34. > :06:40.grade women speak. It is a fantastic little clique because it gives a
:06:41. > :06:45.real sense of your meanness. It is also down to the script writers.
:06:46. > :06:52.Thank you to them for a good scene. I have interviewed a number of
:06:53. > :06:58.female actors who bemoan the dearth of great parts for women as they
:06:59. > :07:06.progress in their career. Have you experienced that? I have truly been
:07:07. > :07:12.lucky. I really have. I think, in a sense, I have developed and become a
:07:13. > :07:20.better actress as I have grown older. Do you think it is because
:07:21. > :07:27.some female actors are to be key. Again, it has become something of a
:07:28. > :07:34.cliche, Kristin Scott Thomas, for example, says I know all the stories
:07:35. > :07:40.can be boring but it is true, it is a disaster. I think she is talking
:07:41. > :07:46.about film and it is different. I cannot comment because my film
:07:47. > :07:53.career is pretty much negligible. I have done the odd film but I am not
:07:54. > :07:58.famous or film. There is one particular role which has gone down
:07:59. > :08:01.in history because it was a Bond movie and everybody remembers that
:08:02. > :08:07.but I do not want to go there just yet. In a sense, the way in which
:08:08. > :08:14.Game of Thrones mirrors something you did earlier in your career, and
:08:15. > :08:19.other cult TV series and that is the avengers. Different eras and styles
:08:20. > :08:26.but something actually quite similar about the way both captured the
:08:27. > :08:33.spirit of an age, would you agree? Yes, I think so. Emma Peel... I do
:08:34. > :08:41.hate the name... That she was ahead of her time and the reason for that
:08:42. > :08:48.was that originally, it was two fellows - Patrick Ni and another
:08:49. > :08:53.actor whose name escapes me and he dropped out and they did not change
:08:54. > :09:03.the script... It was written for a man and ended up being played by a
:09:04. > :09:12.woman. Exactly. That is how it happened. You took over and you were
:09:13. > :09:16.very young. You paid your dues in theatre, provincial the ETA, doing
:09:17. > :09:21.Shakespeare, and you are plucked out of that and told you are going to
:09:22. > :09:28.have this rather glamorous part in a new TV show. I was with the Royal
:09:29. > :09:37.Shakespeare Company for five years, working my way up to play league and
:09:38. > :09:43.I left -- leads, and I left because I sensed I had to broaden myself. I
:09:44. > :09:48.do not just want to be a Shakespearean actress and the world
:09:49. > :09:52.of television was there, sort of reckoning and I was incredibly lucky
:09:53. > :09:58.to get an addition and get the part. For those on the planet who do not
:09:59. > :10:09.remember the avengers and that sort of 60s style, less have a look at a
:10:10. > :10:21.clip, in a very particular get up. Let's have a look. Give me the gun.
:10:22. > :10:49.It is compelling stuff. I mean, I am not going to mess with you in the
:10:50. > :10:53.studio. LAUGHTER. How do you feel about watching that now? If anybody
:10:54. > :11:00.watches your name in the first images conjured up his off the suit.
:11:01. > :11:07.Do you like that or is it frustrating? Note, again, I am very
:11:08. > :11:14.grateful. The frustrating part was the suit, oh, God, it was
:11:15. > :11:23.uncomfortable. It took the hours to kill it off. I am very grateful to
:11:24. > :11:30.eat. -- killed it off. It projected me beyond years of work in the
:11:31. > :11:34.theatre. That is frustrating in a way for somebody who loves the
:11:35. > :11:41.editor so much that you can cut through and reach a massive audience
:11:42. > :11:47.with only two years, as it was, in a way that years of classical theatre
:11:48. > :11:51.could not do for you. Yes, and I went back, I think it was after the
:11:52. > :11:59.second year, I went back to Stratford to do for the night and I
:12:00. > :12:03.said I can put bums on seats and, in fact, I was doing the two together.
:12:04. > :12:12.I was filming the avengers and doing 12 night. There have been different
:12:13. > :12:16.analysis of white Emma Peel represented and a lot of it is seen
:12:17. > :12:23.through a feminist prism. Some feminists said she was fantastic,
:12:24. > :12:28.Revolution is, a strong, Independent woman, an equal partner with a man
:12:29. > :12:35.but others said, how terrible that this sort of Independent woman had
:12:36. > :12:43.to be put in high heels and a suit and men didn't have to go through...
:12:44. > :12:49.What did they want? Hairy legs? Of course, if you are playing the lead,
:12:50. > :12:55.in that sort of series, why not represent glamour as well as self
:12:56. > :13:01.sufficiency? I do not see any problem with that. As a successful
:13:02. > :13:07.actor in your 20s, 30s, would you said you have reminisced instincts?
:13:08. > :13:14.I have always had feminist instincts were parity of... Salary is
:13:15. > :13:20.concerned. I mean, I think an awful lot... It is still a huge issue
:13:21. > :13:25.today. In Hollywood they write campaigns of women at us... We have
:13:26. > :13:32.watched the tennis players fight their fight, actors as a constantly
:13:33. > :13:38.fighting. Katharine Hepburn kicked it all off many, many years ago and
:13:39. > :13:43.it is absolutely ridiculous the chasm between men and women. You
:13:44. > :13:49.were discovered on the set of the avengers that male cameramen were
:13:50. > :13:53.earning more than you. Yes, and when I complained, I was always dubbed
:13:54. > :14:06.incredibly mercenary... your co-star. Was he paid more than
:14:07. > :14:12.you? I didn't go there. It was my fight and I had to do it by myself.
:14:13. > :14:17.Another thing I am interested in, looking back, the wonderful old
:14:18. > :14:22.footage, we talk about game of Thrones and today's young acting
:14:23. > :14:25.stars in Game of Thrones are plunged into a world of celebrity and they
:14:26. > :14:29.become magazine fodder and everything else -- Game of Thrones.
:14:30. > :14:34.It was a different era in the mid- late 60s when you were doing the
:14:35. > :14:38.Avengers. I wonder if there was an element in that for you and how you
:14:39. > :14:44.felt about the celebrity culture that may have come your way? I was
:14:45. > :14:48.completely unprepared for it, completely. I think nowadays the
:14:49. > :14:52.young are prepared for it because they see it all around them, they
:14:53. > :14:59.read it in the magazines and everything. No, I was naive, very
:15:00. > :15:06.naive. Had no idea. And the fan mail was flooding in. I didn't have a
:15:07. > :15:11.secretary. It mounted up. I put it all in the back of my Mini and drove
:15:12. > :15:15.around with it, feeling so guilty. Did you like it, that attention? No,
:15:16. > :15:20.I felt guilty because first of all I didn't have the photographs to send
:15:21. > :15:24.back, which they were all wanting. I didn't know how to set about dealing
:15:25. > :15:28.with fanmail at all. It took me a good long time to work it all out. I
:15:29. > :15:31.think people get help now in the sense that maybe the studios help
:15:32. > :15:37.them or somebody helps them. I just have my mother. You have also said,
:15:38. > :15:40.I liked this comment, you said when you are acting with the Game of
:15:41. > :15:44.Thrones cast you sometimes look at them and you think, Darling hearts
:15:45. > :15:48.of the young ones, darling hearts you have no idea what the rest of
:15:49. > :15:53.your life is going to be like unless you put in a proper apprenticeship.
:15:54. > :15:57.And if I sound like an old bag banging like this then that's what I
:15:58. > :16:00.am. Yes, it's true. Do you fear that today's generation of successful
:16:01. > :16:08.young actors are not really putting in the work? They are suddenly
:16:09. > :16:17.catapulted into this world of series and it is one world but it isn't the
:16:18. > :16:24.only world. And I think, you know... What I have always believed is that
:16:25. > :16:29.the stage Kizhi longevity. I think film, the more film will spit you
:16:30. > :16:35.out at a certain age of the more of television world spit you out at a
:16:36. > :16:41.young age but theatre never does that and they really need to step on
:16:42. > :16:47.stage and discover what their true worth is -- gives you longevity.
:16:48. > :16:52.Through the audience. Yeah, fascinating. Talking of film, use a
:16:53. > :16:56.film can spit you out as an actor so easily, but there are certain roles
:16:57. > :17:02.that live long in the memory, and I think you can lay claim to one of
:17:03. > :17:06.them with your role in one of the Bond movies, on Her Majesty's Secret
:17:07. > :17:10.Service, which is remembered I suppose partly because it was the
:17:11. > :17:14.only Bond role played by George Lazenby, but also because you're
:17:15. > :17:19.female character, the love interest, was actually quite different from
:17:20. > :17:21.most Bond girls. It was a deeper character, more human character, and
:17:22. > :17:28.ended up with a marriage between your character and Bond himself.
:17:29. > :17:38.Let's just see how you played the role alongside Bond. No sign of him
:17:39. > :17:45.yet. Or someone saying thank you. Thank you, Tracey. You have got
:17:46. > :17:51.sharp eyes and beautiful... Looks. What were you doing so nearby? An
:17:52. > :18:04.interest in life. Sports? Just one winter sport. Just keep my mind on
:18:05. > :18:14.your driving. LAUGHTER So, there you are, Tracey Davincenzo, I believe
:18:15. > :18:24.your character was called, was it fun, because a lot of women who have
:18:25. > :18:31.played "Bond Girls row -- girls" get pigeonholed? No. I can't say I did.
:18:32. > :18:34.You did say afterwards it was difficult playing alongside George
:18:35. > :18:41.Lazenby. George was difficult, there is no mistake about it. And as a
:18:42. > :18:48.result he was not invited back. But nonetheless... You mean he wasn't up
:18:49. > :18:51.to it? No, he was perfectly good, he really, really was, I think, I mean,
:18:52. > :18:57.I haven't seen him for ages apart from that cut, but yes, I thought he
:18:58. > :19:03.was good. But he was just so difficult off, and demanding, and
:19:04. > :19:07.the producers thought, enough. Film folklore has it that because your
:19:08. > :19:10.relationship was in was quite difficult, you ate garlic before the
:19:11. > :19:16.intimate scenes. Yes, that was so silly. He accused me of that. Did he
:19:17. > :19:20.actually accuse you of that? Yeah, he did. What happened was that I had
:19:21. > :19:28.mistakenly had chicken liver pate for lunch and they put garlic in it.
:19:29. > :19:34.But I didn't mean to, and I am absolutely certain that prior to the
:19:35. > :19:38.snogging scene I had actually done everything that actors do, clean
:19:39. > :19:43.your teeth, it chew gum and spray and all that kind of stuff. But he
:19:44. > :19:47.thought, because he was paranoid by this time, he thought I had done it
:19:48. > :19:51.on purpose. Which I hadn't, I wouldn't dream of doing it. Well, I
:19:52. > :19:56.am so glad we have cleared that up. Well, I am too, because it has
:19:57. > :20:00.lingered for 25 years. Let me talk to you about confidence and
:20:01. > :20:03.security- insecurity in the acting profession. You have said over the
:20:04. > :20:06.years that you look back on the roles you have played and the life
:20:07. > :20:15.you lead as a younger actor and you wished you had been more confident.
:20:16. > :20:18.And happier in your own skin. Yes. Actually, lack of confidence is a
:20:19. > :20:26.form of self torture. It is ridiculous. And I forget who... It
:20:27. > :20:32.was either Olivier or somebody said you are being selfish when you are
:20:33. > :20:41.worried and worrying about yourself. You know, because acting is giving
:20:42. > :20:46.out and being... Unconfident is sort of hanging yourself and a bit inward
:20:47. > :20:51.looking. And I think I wasted time. Not having enough confidence. Is
:20:52. > :20:58.that... Because you have a wonderful period I guess in the 1990s when you
:20:59. > :21:03.won a host of awards for a series of theatre parts. That was just such a
:21:04. > :21:09.wonderful time, thanks to the director, Jonathan Kent, with whom I
:21:10. > :21:13.work one after the other, you know, people at IS, mother Courage, it was
:21:14. > :21:18.he who put me up there and he who showed faith in me -- Mother
:21:19. > :21:24.Courage. And I have nothing but gratitude for that period of my
:21:25. > :21:30.life. Because it really was wonderful and I was very, very
:21:31. > :21:35.lucky. Not many actresses get the opportunity to play these parts one
:21:36. > :21:39.after the other. I mean, how lucky was that? Well, I don't think it is
:21:40. > :21:43.like, is it, it is talent. But also a great thing you seem to have done
:21:44. > :21:46.is using to have come to a clear understanding that, you know,
:21:47. > :21:50.theatre has its ups and downs and you can get bad reviews and, in the
:21:51. > :21:54.end, it is better to sort of shrug your shoulders or laugh at them and
:21:55. > :22:00.get deeply wounded by them. Yeah, you've got to move on, just move on.
:22:01. > :22:09.Have you had lousy reviews that stick in your mind? Well, the worst
:22:10. > :22:13.one was one I did on Broadway Abella and Louise, and we did a mood scene,
:22:14. > :22:20.Keith Michelle Anae. What, you mean full on? Full on, nothing, knickers
:22:21. > :22:26.off. LAUGHTER. Deeply uncomfortable and absolutely
:22:27. > :22:31.horrible and cold! And John Simon, he was small, a rather ugly
:22:32. > :22:36.Hungarian gentleman who said, she is built like a brick mausoleum with
:22:37. > :22:39.insufficient flying buttresses! LAUGHTER.
:22:40. > :22:45.Mellow well, try and get over that. Not easy. How to play the mood scene
:22:46. > :22:49.afterwards, I mean, just horrible. Well, what is beautiful is you have
:22:50. > :22:53.found the humour in it and you have now turned it into a stage show. You
:22:54. > :22:59.have collected all of these horrible review is not just about yourself
:23:00. > :23:05.but many great actors is -- as well and you have the book, this title
:23:06. > :23:12.which is one of the best ever, No Tome Unturned, and it is a thing in
:23:13. > :23:15.itself, isn't it? Yes, the point about Bad Notices is you have to be
:23:16. > :23:19.funny for a kickoff, and mine is, and to be able to quote is
:23:20. > :23:25.cathartic, it sort of halves the pain to get a laugh at the end of
:23:26. > :23:28.it. Using some actors are too about this trade or there's? Just a bit.
:23:29. > :23:36.And about themselves as well. I mean, there is a lot of laughter in
:23:37. > :23:43.this profession, a lot. And I think, yes, to be too serious is a grave
:23:44. > :23:45.mistake. We are almost out of time, I don't think anyone around the
:23:46. > :23:51.world would forgive me unless you tell me exactly happening with Game
:23:52. > :23:58.of Thrones. Can't, they would fire me if they did -- I did. When you
:23:59. > :24:01.film on? In a couple of months. I haven't got the script yet so I
:24:02. > :24:04.don't know what's happening. Do you know if you will be killed off? I
:24:05. > :24:09.don't have a clue. They have announced that they will finish it
:24:10. > :24:13.next year. Right. So it obviously has, you know, it is ending. You
:24:14. > :24:20.will find something else. Yeah, absolutely. Dame Diana Rigg, thank
:24:21. > :24:26.you so much for being on HARDtalk thank you. Thank you.