Derek Hatton, Former Labour Politician

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:00:00. > :00:15.In the blue corner, a formidable woman Prime Minister

:00:16. > :00:24.Leader of the Opposition seen by many on his own

:00:25. > :00:31.It is how things look today as they did in the mid-1980s,

:00:32. > :00:34.when Derek Hatton was the poster boy of Britain's far-left,

:00:35. > :00:36.confronting Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher over funding for his city

:00:37. > :00:38.of Liverpool, he gambled by threatening 30,000 council

:00:39. > :00:53.Now Jeremy Corbyn is leader, Derek Hatton wants to come back.

:00:54. > :01:13.If Labour leans further left, is it lost all over again?

:01:14. > :01:21.It is 30 years since you were thrown out of the Labour Party,

:01:22. > :01:27.why in the last year or so have you wanted to go back again?

:01:28. > :01:38.I think it all happened at the last election,

:01:39. > :01:40.where the day after, or it wasn't even the day,

:01:41. > :01:44.it was the morning after, I just looked at what happened

:01:45. > :01:49.and I knew that Miliband was on his way out.

:01:50. > :01:52.And I thought, if ever there was a time

:01:53. > :01:55.that there needs to be some sort of comment, now is the time.

:01:56. > :01:58.Whilst I was not arrogant enough to think that my opinion would make

:01:59. > :02:04.all that much difference, I wanted to make it.

:02:05. > :02:07.I applied about 6:00am or 7:00am in the morning when the results

:02:08. > :02:09.were coming through, and I realised what was happening.

:02:10. > :02:12.First of all, I got the usual standard letter saying welcome

:02:13. > :02:15.from the General Secretary and then I got the membership card

:02:16. > :02:20.And a couple of weeks later, it became public that I had

:02:21. > :02:23.done that, and then I got a letter saying, this has to go

:02:24. > :02:27.That is the ruling committee of the Labour Party?

:02:28. > :02:31.It is now 18 months later, apparently it has still not been

:02:32. > :02:35.Do you think anyone in the Labour Party wants you back?

:02:36. > :02:38.I have not asked them all, I am sure there are a number that do

:02:39. > :02:43.You were thrown out for being a member of Militant Tendency,

:02:44. > :02:45.a group that operated inside the Labour Party

:02:46. > :02:59.The Co-op party is seen as being complimentary to Labour's

:03:00. > :03:01.values, Militant Tendency was seen as being hostile.

:03:02. > :03:06.In many ways, we were not hostile to the values of the Labour Party.

:03:07. > :03:09.You have to remember that Militant Tendency at the time,

:03:10. > :03:18.The reality is that at the time, I suppose many people argued

:03:19. > :03:21.and we would argue, that the people involved in it were people who had

:03:22. > :03:25.been in the Labour Party a long time and that membership is more

:03:26. > :03:27.important regardless of whether we read a newspaper

:03:28. > :03:29.or we had meetings outside of the Labour Party.

:03:30. > :03:32.Peter Kilfoyle, who went on to be, one might call him

:03:33. > :03:35.the hammer of militants in Liverpool, said it was a separate

:03:36. > :03:38.party and they were a very large cuckoo in the nest and they have

:03:39. > :03:41.been compared, rather as Lenin told British Communists to join

:03:42. > :03:44.the Labour party in the 1920s, as a rope supports the hanged man,

:03:45. > :03:46.so militants and Labour in the early 1980s.

:03:47. > :03:49.I have used that expression many times only in other ways.

:03:50. > :03:52.Peter Kilfoyle, talking about entryism, I mean,

:03:53. > :03:54.he just came from Australia, no-one ever knew him

:03:55. > :03:59.part of the party at all, he appeared as the hatchet

:04:00. > :04:02.It could have been anyone, he got well rewarded for it.

:04:03. > :04:06.I do not know what the criticism is you have levied.

:04:07. > :04:08.The criticism is that this was an organisation that

:04:09. > :04:11.It had a revolutionary approach to socialism.

:04:12. > :04:15.As others have put it, Jane Kennedy, later a Labour MP,

:04:16. > :04:17.now Police and Crime Commissioner in Liverpool, told the local

:04:18. > :04:20.newspaper about three years ago that the Labour Party meetings

:04:21. > :04:23.were manipulated and dominated by this small group of people.

:04:24. > :04:24.They had a particular viewpoint.

:04:25. > :04:26.There was no discussion, they were not representative

:04:27. > :04:30.Talking abour this small group, I bumped into Malcolm Kennedy,

:04:31. > :04:34.her ex-husband, the other day, a councillor in Liverpool,

:04:35. > :04:42.I'm sure he won't mind me saying this.

:04:43. > :04:45.They're no longer together but he said to me that at the time,

:04:46. > :04:48.him and Jane and a small group of people opposed us.

:04:49. > :04:51.Credit to them, they always turned up and gave a different opinion,

:04:52. > :04:54.not like a lot of the other hangers on who jumped on afterwards.

:04:55. > :05:01.He reminded me of a time when he led a walk-out in my local constituency,

:05:02. > :05:06.The small group you're talking about actually was a big number

:05:07. > :05:08.and the vast majority within the Labour Party.

:05:09. > :05:10.These were not members of Militant Tendency,

:05:11. > :05:12.these were members of the Labour Party.

:05:13. > :05:15.There might have been a small number with there who happened to read

:05:16. > :05:17.the militant newspaper, or go to militant meetings

:05:18. > :05:26.But the vast majority were good, honest, hard-working Labour Party

:05:27. > :05:29.members who actually went along the street knocking on doors,

:05:30. > :05:31.putting leaflets through the doors and campaigning for the Labour Party

:05:32. > :05:36.And is that a parallel you see now, as a large number of people

:05:37. > :05:38.are attracted into the Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn,

:05:39. > :05:41.the leader elected only one year ago with 60% of the vote,

:05:42. > :05:44.and yet finding that he is now opposed by 80%

:05:45. > :05:47.of the party's MPs, and challenged again, lots of new people

:05:48. > :05:52.coming into the party, some people are suspicious.

:05:53. > :06:01.I think a lot of people are suspicious about what's

:06:02. > :06:02.happening, for all sorts of different reasons.

:06:03. > :06:05.I think the one really encouraging thing at the moment,

:06:06. > :06:08.is that you are starting to get a politicisation around the country

:06:09. > :06:10.where you're getting not just within the Labour Party

:06:11. > :06:13.but within pubs and discussions, I have just come away now

:06:14. > :06:16.from a discussion with someone who is not at all political

:06:17. > :06:18.but he started talking to me about what is happening

:06:19. > :06:21.He wasn't giving an opinion either way,

:06:22. > :06:26.Two years ago he would not have wanted a conversation,

:06:27. > :06:33.he would've talked about football, not politics.

:06:34. > :06:39.And it reminds me of the 1980s, when virtually every

:06:40. > :06:42.pub in Liverpool had a city treasurer, because there was always

:06:43. > :06:46.and figures and said, I found this and that

:06:47. > :06:52.and it was great that people wanted to get involved in that

:06:53. > :06:55.and they want to get involved on a national basis.

:06:56. > :06:57.First and foremost, Jeremy Corbyn and his allies have got

:06:58. > :06:59.politicisation not just within the Labour Party

:07:00. > :07:03.but within the country as a whole and that has to be a good thing.

:07:04. > :07:05.That is fine except the opinion polls suggest he cannot win.

:07:06. > :07:07.It is strange, every single Tory newspaper,

:07:08. > :07:10.the BBC and others who certainly have got no love for the left,

:07:11. > :07:12.suddenly are saying that it is unwinnable.

:07:13. > :07:15.The same ones are spending every moment of the time in attacking him,

:07:16. > :07:18.with the most vicious, vicious campaign that I have seen

:07:19. > :07:21.Let us be honest, if he was so unelectable

:07:22. > :07:25.and it was so unwinnable, then the Tory newspapers,

:07:26. > :07:28.the likes of the Mail and others, would be sitting back and saying,

:07:29. > :07:31.let him carry on, because this will guarantee the Tories

:07:32. > :07:39.The reality is that the reason why they are so opposed

:07:40. > :07:45.to him, and so vicious in their condemnation

:07:46. > :07:49.not only could he win, but he could win by a big majority.

:07:50. > :07:58.It is interesting that you say that, not only is his net approval rating

:07:59. > :08:01.just last week -28, only Donald Trump does worse than that

:08:02. > :08:05.at the moment, but Saqiq Khan, the Labour Mayor of London,

:08:06. > :08:07.arguably the most successful Labour politician at the moment,

:08:08. > :08:19.You can say all you like, the reality is that he actually won

:08:20. > :08:24.He would say he won despite Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.

:08:25. > :08:29.Just on your point about the media, let me touch on what he said

:08:30. > :08:31.in an article for the Observer on Sunday.

:08:32. > :08:34.You cannot just blame a hostile media and let Jeremy and his team

:08:35. > :08:38.I know from my own election up against a nasty and divisive Tory

:08:39. > :08:41.campaign that if we are strong and clear enough in our convictions,

:08:42. > :08:43.the message will get through to the public.

:08:44. > :08:46.He is basically saying that Jeremy Corbyn has failed to connect

:08:47. > :08:49.with the public, and that is why he should not be leader.

:08:50. > :08:52.No, I know he said that, and a lot of others have as well.

:08:53. > :08:54.Within the Parliamentary Labour Party there is a problem

:08:55. > :08:57.and there is a large number of Labour MPs who actually now

:08:58. > :09:00.are opposing Jeremy Corbyn, and that does give a problem.

:09:01. > :09:03.The reality is, you've got to think what those Labour MPs are all about.

:09:04. > :09:06.I would argue that the vast majority of members of Parliament,

:09:07. > :09:08.all sides, their first and foremost concern,

:09:09. > :09:11.yes, a lot of them are principled, a lot of them have good ideas,

:09:12. > :09:15.a lot of them believe in certain ideals, the reality is that first

:09:16. > :09:16.and foremost, they like their position.

:09:17. > :09:20.They love being MPs, they love the power,

:09:21. > :09:24.the authority, and they love the credibility,

:09:25. > :09:27.they love everything that goes with it.

:09:28. > :09:29.And more than anything they want to stay as members of

:09:30. > :09:32.All of a sudden, they start panicking and saying,

:09:33. > :09:34.if the press are saying that it is unwinnable,

:09:35. > :09:37.The polls have been saying it as well.

:09:38. > :09:40.The polls have been saying it only since the coup

:09:41. > :09:43.Prior to that, the opposite was happening.

:09:44. > :09:46.He actually got to a stage where he was virtually on line

:09:47. > :09:50.Look at any papers you like, you will find that is true.

:09:51. > :09:52.The reality is that that was the case then.

:09:53. > :09:54.Since the Parliamentary party have started their chicken coup,

:09:55. > :09:56.all of a sudden it is very different.

:09:57. > :09:59.And yes, the confusion in the minds of ordinary people up and down

:10:00. > :10:06.the country is as a result of Parliamentary Labour Party

:10:07. > :10:08.behaving like they have, in the most despicable, disgraceful way.

:10:09. > :10:12.There have been frequent claims that Labour were equal to or even ahead

:10:13. > :10:14.of the Tories before the Labour leadership troubles erupted,

:10:15. > :10:16.the so-called coup to which you refer.

:10:17. > :10:19.This is a disingenuous claim at best, and seems to rest

:10:20. > :10:25.At no point this year have the polls showed a consistent Labour lead.

:10:26. > :10:27.That is the UK Polling Report, which is regarded...

:10:28. > :10:29.Are they the ones that predicted the Tories would not

:10:30. > :10:33.Did they predict that Brexit was not going to win?

:10:34. > :10:35.They are the same polling people that said the same thing.

:10:36. > :10:38.The reality is that I think the polls have got

:10:39. > :10:51.You are a passionate pro-European, and you say that you wish Britain

:10:52. > :10:53.was an enthusiastic member of the European Union.

:10:54. > :10:55.I would not say I am a passionate supporter,

:10:56. > :10:58.I am a supporter and I did not want Brexit to happen.

:10:59. > :11:01.I think for all sorts of different reasons I would rather have stayed

:11:02. > :11:08.And I still think, by the way, that there is going to be major

:11:09. > :11:12.I think Theresa May was clever in the way she put three individuals

:11:13. > :11:15.who were so, so, so against Europe to actually run the campaign

:11:16. > :11:20.We're now going to be in a position where if they cannot do it,

:11:21. > :11:22.she will be like, hang on, I told you so.

:11:23. > :11:25.Do you think that Jeremy Corbyn could have done more to put

:11:26. > :11:31.I think he argued quite vociferously that the Labour Party was behind

:11:32. > :11:38.the campaign to actually stay in Europe.

:11:39. > :11:41.And I think that maybe he didn't argue it in the way that others

:11:42. > :11:44.would have wanted, but it did not mean

:11:45. > :11:49.He was very loyal to the Labour Party position,

:11:50. > :11:51.and no-one could suggest for one

:11:52. > :11:54.We had talked a bit about what is happening

:11:55. > :12:01.in the Labour Party now, the parallels with what was

:12:02. > :12:08.I think that the first big parallel is that you're coming off the back

:12:09. > :12:10.of a very right wing Tory government and Tory leadership.

:12:11. > :12:13.You saw under Thatcher and you saw it under the whole gang

:12:14. > :12:16.that was behind Brexit, and everything that goes with it.

:12:17. > :12:20.But you're also seeing people wanting something new.

:12:21. > :12:23.I think in the '80s, you have to remember

:12:24. > :12:25.that although it was only in Liverpool,

:12:26. > :12:33.after city after city, speaking at rallies.

:12:34. > :12:36.And those rallies have the same sort of numbers that

:12:37. > :12:43.There were 2,000 or 3,000 at these rallies.

:12:44. > :12:48.It was funny, that many of the Labour leaders who later

:12:49. > :12:50.on became very much against us after Kinnock's speech,

:12:51. > :12:54.a very large number of those leaders used to ring up and say can we speak

:12:55. > :12:56.on the platform with you, because they knew that

:12:57. > :12:59.if they'd had a rally they would not have filled

:13:00. > :13:02.a telephone box, and yet we were having rallies

:13:03. > :13:05.in their cities of two and 3,000 people and they wanted to be there.

:13:06. > :13:08.We will come back to Neil Kinnock who was then leader

:13:09. > :13:10.of the Labour Party when you were Deputy Leader

:13:11. > :13:15.Let me put to you what Tom Watson, who was elected Deputy Leader

:13:16. > :13:17.of the Labour Party at the same time as Jeremy Corbyn.

:13:18. > :13:21.He now says, there is a parallel with the 1980s.

:13:22. > :13:24.He said, entryism is happening again.

:13:25. > :13:26.What Militant was accused of doing back then.

:13:27. > :13:28.Old hands twisting young arms in this process.

:13:29. > :13:29.They're putting pressure where they can.

:13:30. > :13:32.That's how it operates, sooner or later it always ends

:13:33. > :13:42.When the deputy leadership came, and I thought he'd be a good person

:13:43. > :13:46.One of the big trade unions in Britain.

:13:47. > :13:48.Very strong with the General Secretary.

:13:49. > :13:52.Unfortunately, he has allowed himself to be used and abused

:13:53. > :14:03.What he's doing is not only making a fool of himself,

:14:04. > :14:06.but making a fool of the arguments as well.

:14:07. > :14:08.Because to throw up all these Trotskyist bits again,

:14:09. > :14:13.Hang on, which ones of the 2,000 or 3,000 at the rallies have hands

:14:14. > :14:17.You can't get, you can't make 2,000 or 3,000 people go to a rally

:14:18. > :14:27.Let me put to you the remarks of another leading

:14:28. > :14:29.figure in the Labour Party now, who back

:14:30. > :14:31.in the day, in the '80s, would

:14:32. > :14:33.have been regarded very much as on the left,

:14:34. > :14:35.perhaps not as far left as

:14:36. > :14:37.you were regarded, nonetheless certainly not hostile.

:14:38. > :14:41.By the way she was never on the left.

:14:42. > :14:43.Leader of the London borough of Islington.

:14:44. > :14:45.By the way, she was never on the left.

:14:46. > :14:47.Bricks being thrown through windows, people

:14:48. > :14:50.being called scum, this is not the new politics, this is the old

:14:51. > :14:54.I had people tearing up wood from the council chamber and

:14:55. > :14:57.I'm seeing today in 2016 the same as in the '80s.

:14:58. > :15:00.Margaret, for your information, was leader of Islington Council during

:15:01. > :15:04.There was never a time that I can remember, any way, where

:15:05. > :15:07.Margaret Hodge was in favour of the real

:15:08. > :15:08.campaign against Thatcher in

:15:09. > :15:14.She became very close to Tony Blair over the years.

:15:15. > :15:18.It doesn't surprise me at all the sort

:15:19. > :15:19.of things she's saying and the

:15:20. > :15:21.fact that she's jumping on that bandwagon.

:15:22. > :15:25.Rape threats, death threats, smashed cars and bricks through

:15:26. > :15:27.windows, this is acknowledged by all factions.

:15:28. > :15:34.45 other MPs writing to Jeremy Corbyn...

:15:35. > :15:37.A journalist like you, who actually, usually

:15:38. > :15:49.Has she produced one group of people?

:15:50. > :15:54.We were accused in the 80s of bullying.

:15:55. > :15:57.We were accused all the

:15:58. > :15:59.time that we were telling people what to do.

:16:00. > :16:01.We were gathering people, a committee.

:16:02. > :16:06.There was never one ounce of evidence.

:16:07. > :16:08.She and 45 other MPs who signed this letter are

:16:09. > :16:11.They're doing that because they want something

:16:12. > :16:15.You have got to remember that those MPs want to get re-elected the

:16:16. > :16:21.You've got to remember that one of the things that may come out of

:16:22. > :16:24.Jeremy Corbyn and by the way, I would support this, is reselection

:16:25. > :16:30.I think a member of Parliament, yes, they can claim that

:16:31. > :16:33.they were elected by the electorate of a constituency, but the reality

:16:34. > :16:36.is the only reason why they've been elected

:16:37. > :16:39.by the members of that constituency is because the members of the Labour

:16:40. > :16:44.Party put them forward as a Labour candidate.

:16:45. > :16:45.They don't get elected in

:16:46. > :16:50.Of course, Militant Tendency wouldn't have done that either?

:16:51. > :16:58.I was a member of the Labour Party then longer than I was

:16:59. > :17:04.You were Militant in the period up to being Deputy Leader of the

:17:05. > :17:11.You would say it didn't alter your view as a Labour man?

:17:12. > :17:14.You were Deputy Leader of Liverpool City Council,

:17:15. > :17:17.one of the most important councils in this country, representing one of

:17:18. > :17:19.our largest cities, a city that had suffered

:17:20. > :17:20.considerably because of the

:17:21. > :17:26.problems in the economy, big collapse in manufacturing jobs.

:17:27. > :17:31.You took over after council elections in

:17:32. > :17:34.May '83, did things like building new council houses, new leisure

:17:35. > :17:37.centres, investing in the infrastructure of the city,

:17:38. > :17:39.but you did it knowing you didn't have the

:17:40. > :17:49.We also campaigned to get more money.

:17:50. > :17:52.Don't forget we were the only council at the time that

:17:53. > :17:54.conducted a campaign against Thatcher and got ?30 million extra.

:17:55. > :17:57.We did in '83, '84 got more money out of the Government.

:17:58. > :18:02.You got that by talking to the Government.

:18:03. > :18:06.Patrick Jenkin was shown round, he recognised the problems

:18:07. > :18:12.The reason we got that money was because there were

:18:13. > :18:14.hundreds of thousands on the streets of Liverpool, and they thought,

:18:15. > :18:18.Patrick Jenkin would have never come to Liverpool.

:18:19. > :18:20.Margaret Thatcher would have never come to Liverpool if

:18:21. > :18:22.those demonstrations hadn't have happened.

:18:23. > :18:24.They didn't want a day out in Liverpool.

:18:25. > :18:28.They came up because they saw the threats that were there.

:18:29. > :18:32.And you made the argument and you won the case and you got the

:18:33. > :18:34.Then the following year, asked for more money and they

:18:35. > :18:38.Your response was to initially set a budget which was a

:18:39. > :18:40.deficit budget, which legally you weren't allowed to do.

:18:41. > :18:52.Anyone with a budget has different options.

:18:53. > :18:56.You sent out redundancy letters to thousands of council

:18:57. > :18:59.employees telling them that they faced

:19:00. > :19:00.the sack at the end of the

:19:01. > :19:02.year unless the Government intervened.

:19:03. > :19:05.Are you going to say what was in that

:19:06. > :19:11.What gets me is that you come up with the fact that, the

:19:12. > :19:13.statement, hang on, you sent out 30,000

:19:14. > :19:14.redundancy notices, which we

:19:15. > :19:19.What you failed to say, I've said this a thousand times, yet the

:19:20. > :19:22.press never actually choose to actually print it.

:19:23. > :19:25.With every single redundancy notice that was sent out,

:19:26. > :19:28.there was a letter signed by me and John

:19:29. > :19:30.Hammilton, the leader at the

:19:31. > :19:34.time, saying clearly, these will not be carried out.

:19:35. > :19:37.It was simply a tactic in order to set a legal

:19:38. > :19:41.budget and immediately after we set a legal budget, we could then carry

:19:42. > :19:44.However much we were sure the redundancies

:19:45. > :19:46.wouldn't be carried out, it's still a redundancy notice

:19:47. > :19:49.and there will be that panic, that what you told a

:19:50. > :19:53.journalist last year when you spoke to her.

:19:54. > :19:57.You accept people were going to be frightened.

:19:58. > :20:00.Every single trade union, every group of

:20:01. > :20:09.shop stewards had discussions with us,

:20:10. > :20:10.accepted the strategy, the

:20:11. > :20:14.She said that the trade unions wouldn't

:20:15. > :20:17.They distributed letters saying what was

:20:18. > :20:21.Every single trade union warned members what was going

:20:22. > :20:24.Then we saw this confrontation between you and the

:20:25. > :20:27.then leader of the Labour Party, Neil Kinnock, at the party

:20:28. > :20:34.I tell you what happens with impossible promises.

:20:35. > :20:39.You start with far-fetched resolutions.

:20:40. > :20:42.They're then pickled into a rigid dogma

:20:43. > :20:48.And you go through the years sticking to that, outdated,

:20:49. > :20:53.misplaced, irrelevant to the real needs.

:20:54. > :20:58.You end in the grotesque chaos of a Labour council, a Labour

:20:59. > :21:02.Council, hiring taxis to scuttle round the city, handing out

:21:03. > :21:05.redundancy notices to its own workers.

:21:06. > :21:20.Let's leave the audience to judge that one.

:21:21. > :21:24.The result was that you became practically a pariah in

:21:25. > :21:29.I mean, it was certainly true as a result of that

:21:30. > :21:37.That was the tragedy of that speech. who beforehand had supported us went

:21:38. > :21:40.Thatcher in her memoirs said her two greatest

:21:41. > :21:43.successes were changing the Tory Party and changing the Labour Party.

:21:44. > :21:48.That was the beginning of Thatcher's work when Kinnock said that.

:21:49. > :21:50.If he'd have at the time supported the

:21:51. > :21:52.miners, which he didn't, and supported Liverpool, which he

:21:53. > :21:55.didn't, not only didn't support, he went against, there would have

:21:56. > :22:06.To be honest, I think he was far more responsible for us

:22:07. > :22:10.losing in Liverpool, losing jobs, losing more houses,

:22:11. > :22:15.more leisure centres than Thatcher was.

:22:16. > :22:29.Let me bring you back up today. The mirror of London said that opposing

:22:30. > :22:32.Victoria policies is not enough. You need to knock the sharp edges of at

:22:33. > :22:36.best. When you win elections you make a difference because your

:22:37. > :22:41.wiring control. He says that that is the sort of thing he was talking

:22:42. > :22:47.about. A self-indulgence. A confrontation he knew you couldn't

:22:48. > :22:51.win, it ends up hurting people. We never lost an election. We never

:22:52. > :22:56.lost an election. Women won every single election. The House of Lords

:22:57. > :23:07.got rid of us. Can it can never won an election. -- Kinnock Neville won

:23:08. > :23:14.an election. In reality, the House of Lords got rid of us. Kinnock

:23:15. > :23:19.never won a single election. Kinnock referred to the people of this

:23:20. > :23:24.country and got battered. So his policies and his ideas did not get

:23:25. > :23:27.support. So with Jeremy Corbyn ignores the example and takes your

:23:28. > :23:35.example do you think he is more likely to win? Without question.

:23:36. > :23:39.Why? What has changed? Our position was never put nationally. People

:23:40. > :23:44.used to say that we won in Liverpool but we would never win a elsewhere.

:23:45. > :23:47.But we went around to other cities, cities like London and Glasgow and

:23:48. > :23:50.we got fabulous support. The reality is that the Labour leaders there

:23:51. > :23:54.were prepared to adopt the campaign that we did and when Kinnock came

:23:55. > :24:00.along they ran around, understandably, maybe, but they ran

:24:01. > :24:05.away. It sounds as if you may be itching to get back into politics.

:24:06. > :24:08.No chance. And if Jeremy Corbyn conducts a sort of election, I think

:24:09. > :24:34.he will win the election. Thank you very much for joining us.

:24:35. > :24:37.Tuesday may have been disappointingly cloudy and cool

:24:38. > :24:39.for much of Scotland and Northern Ireland,

:24:40. > :24:42.but with the sun out in England and Wales,