:00:00. > :00:18.Welcome to HARDtalk. Germany's voters have made it clear they are
:00:19. > :00:24.unhappy with their chancellor, Angela Merkel. Into regional
:00:25. > :00:30.elections this month her Conservative Party suffered a
:00:31. > :00:34.humiliating defeat. The CSU in Bavaria or are not happy with her
:00:35. > :00:41.either, hinting at a split unless she changes policy on immigration.
:00:42. > :00:45.Manfred Weber is a MP for the CSU and also leads the largest political
:00:46. > :00:47.group in the European Parliament. Is this the beginning of the end for
:00:48. > :01:24.Angela Merkel? Manfred Weber, welcome to HARDtalk.
:01:25. > :01:32.Can Angela Merkel win the elections in Germany next year? Absolutely.
:01:33. > :01:39.That is possible and she is still strong in the CSU. There is no doubt
:01:40. > :01:42.about her Chancellor ship. But there are discussions on how we deal with
:01:43. > :01:47.immigration. This is one of the topics on the table, one of the
:01:48. > :01:53.discussions we hold in the European Union and the European Parliament.
:01:54. > :01:57.There we need to find a centre-right movement, so now we need to give
:01:58. > :02:03.people a good orientation for the long-term. But we have had these two
:02:04. > :02:08.regional elections showing a very bad result for the CD you. Its worst
:02:09. > :02:20.ever result in Berlin, beaten into third place by a group called AFD.
:02:21. > :02:24.Which is why a member of the AFD said that next year would be a
:02:25. > :02:35.double for survival for Angela Merkel. Issue right? An election for
:02:36. > :02:40.a politician is always a battle for survival. You need to remember that
:02:41. > :02:44.not only immigration is an issue in Germany, but Germany is also
:02:45. > :02:48.economically very strong. People are happy about Howard Germany is doing
:02:49. > :02:52.economically and a lot of other things. The Chancellor is in a very
:02:53. > :02:56.good situation. There is only one thing, and that is migration which
:02:57. > :03:02.is strongly discussed. There I think two sides are important. One side is
:03:03. > :03:07.as Angela Merkel said at the beginning, when he ago, that, yes,
:03:08. > :03:13.we must help. We are economically strong and when we are powerful in
:03:14. > :03:18.this regard, then we must help people who need our help. From
:03:19. > :03:22.Syria. From regions of civil war. That was the message. On the other
:03:23. > :03:29.hand, during the last weeks and months, Germany has rebalanced now.
:03:30. > :03:33.Angela Merkel organised a European deal for Turkey. So we have through
:03:34. > :03:39.the Balkan route and no new migrants. We had almost 10,000
:03:40. > :03:44.migrants on the island of Lesbos in the Turkish Greek border. We managed
:03:45. > :03:48.to reduce the numbers. Both things are helpful in the crisis, a
:03:49. > :03:53.situation of crisis and on the other hand, bring everything under control
:03:54. > :03:57.after what has been managed now. So why did your finance minister say
:03:58. > :04:01.that of these elections it was the second massive wake-up call in two
:04:02. > :04:06.weeks and there had been a long-term massive loss in trust among
:04:07. > :04:11.traditional voters that threatened the conservative block? The
:04:12. > :04:16.Conservatives, the Christian Democrats in the centre-right in the
:04:17. > :04:22.is under pressure. But that is not a single thing in Germany. We look to
:04:23. > :04:28.France, to the Netherlands. Look to Austria. All of Europe centre-right
:04:29. > :04:33.is strongly under pressure and the answer is to simply do the job. To
:04:34. > :04:39.manage it. That is not a job to go from one extreme to another. On the
:04:40. > :04:43.one hand we have to to explain to people that there is a need,
:04:44. > :04:48.especially for rate continent which defines itself as a Christian
:04:49. > :04:53.continent that we have to help people. On the other hand everything
:04:54. > :04:58.must be under control by the State. So we need strong border control and
:04:59. > :05:04.we must fight against smugglers and that is what we have to do and I
:05:05. > :05:07.must say we have achieved a lot of these things and if people are
:05:08. > :05:11.having not so much trust in their politicians, the main message is to
:05:12. > :05:16.please try to convince people with success. That is what I have to say.
:05:17. > :05:21.Angela has been doing a lot of that in the last month. To be clear, you
:05:22. > :05:27.do not think that it was a mistake for Germany to let in 1 million
:05:28. > :05:33.refugees. Angela Merkel herself said a few days ago that the German
:05:34. > :05:38.government may not have been perfect. There were missteps. She
:05:39. > :05:43.did not say that it was a mistake to let 1 million people in. Do you
:05:44. > :05:48.accept that. That it was the right thing to do? Frankly speaking, she
:05:49. > :05:52.was very clear in her message that not everything was perfect and there
:05:53. > :05:57.were mistakes. The government made mistakes. Many others made mistakes.
:05:58. > :06:01.But a main message for me today is that we should not talk any more
:06:02. > :06:06.about the past. The question is the future. I must say this. If you want
:06:07. > :06:11.to convince people it makes no sense to discuss further the problems of
:06:12. > :06:16.last year. But it is important. Forgive me for interrupting your
:06:17. > :06:21.party, which is of course in a union with her, a union with a long
:06:22. > :06:27.history, is saying that she must now accept a cap on refugees. A cap of
:06:28. > :06:32.200,000. And she has in the past always said that she would not
:06:33. > :06:39.accept any cap. There is now a question for the future to solve. My
:06:40. > :06:44.party is insisting in figures, in clear figures what is possible for
:06:45. > :06:48.Germany to accept, what is manageable for the German Society to
:06:49. > :06:52.integrate into the country. And we have to talk about these things. In
:06:53. > :06:56.the next month, you know, the electoral programme for the
:06:57. > :07:02.elections next year in Germany and that is one of the open questions
:07:03. > :07:05.between us. We need to find a common answer and a common wording and
:07:06. > :07:10.message for all. The thing is, listening to your leader, it does
:07:11. > :07:15.not sound that open. He said we will not back away from the 200,000
:07:16. > :07:20.ceiling. It is about credibility, plain and simple. So what happens if
:07:21. > :07:26.Angela Merkel does not accept that ceiling? That is up to the
:07:27. > :07:33.negotiation process. You see now the developments in the last month, both
:07:34. > :07:37.parts of the party, both sides will make steps in a possible answer for
:07:38. > :07:42.the future for the people. It gives them an answer. I am sure that we
:07:43. > :07:48.will deliver over the next month. In Germany there is not an alternative
:07:49. > :07:52.between us so this is ongoing fighting amongst ourselves. We must
:07:53. > :07:58.recognise and we have to show to people that the problem is not so
:07:59. > :08:01.much internal. The main problem is not so much internal, the question
:08:02. > :08:06.is what would be the policy of Germany if it would have had in the
:08:07. > :08:10.last years and months left-wing government? It would be even, it
:08:11. > :08:15.would have been even worse. That is why we must convince people about
:08:16. > :08:18.how approach and, again, that is a balanced approach. I cannot accept
:08:19. > :08:25.that anybody is telling people that we refuse all refugees. We must take
:08:26. > :08:29.our responsibility and poor countries like Jordan, like Levin on
:08:30. > :08:35.and Turkey are receiving a lot of migrants and helping a lot of people
:08:36. > :08:39.and Europe must also. If you can not Angela Merkel to accept this cap of
:08:40. > :08:44.200,000 which your leader has insisted on, called the two parties
:08:45. > :08:49.split? Could the union end? No. The union will not end. We need to work
:08:50. > :08:55.together to find a common understanding. And please trust me,
:08:56. > :09:00.we will find an answer. But you will know it is people in your own party
:09:01. > :09:06.who was even raising the idea that you could field a candidate, a rival
:09:07. > :09:09.against Angela Merkel next year. Angela Merkel did not say whether
:09:10. > :09:14.she wants to be elected at the moment. That is the situation today.
:09:15. > :09:17.We must talk to each other. The first message in politics is always
:09:18. > :09:22.about conversation, convincing people. We managed during the last
:09:23. > :09:26.month, a lot lot in regard to people who are not really happy about the
:09:27. > :09:34.decisions of last year. It is already a success from that part.
:09:35. > :09:38.And now it is up to us long-term, a future orientated approach for this
:09:39. > :09:43.migration policy and again I can assure you we will find that. OK,
:09:44. > :09:46.well, let us look at what your party is proposing, particularly on
:09:47. > :09:51.immigration policy which you say is of huge concern. It proposes that
:09:52. > :09:57.priority be given to immigrants from our Western Christian culture, the
:09:58. > :10:02.dual citizenship, be abolished. That even the idea that the silent time
:10:03. > :10:09.could be limited. Of those things that you will say to the CPU that
:10:10. > :10:18.they must accept? To the CDU that they must accept. When we say, for
:10:19. > :10:23.example that the market in Germany is strong so we need workers in
:10:24. > :10:28.Germany, then we as a party say first and foremost we must look to
:10:29. > :10:33.Italy and to Spain. We have to look to regions that have a high
:10:34. > :10:36.unemployment rate and it is better to include these people and it is
:10:37. > :10:41.better to include those people. But you don't say that. The words used
:10:42. > :10:44.in the document of your party is from our Western Christian culture
:10:45. > :10:48.which is sending a clear message that people will be chosen on the
:10:49. > :10:52.basis of their religion. Read it very carefully and you will see that
:10:53. > :10:58.we are talking about migration, we are talking not about a question of
:10:59. > :11:04.refugees. We received in the last 12 months thousands, ten thousands of
:11:05. > :11:07.migrants. There is no problem. But if there is someone who is skilled
:11:08. > :11:12.who was a practising Muslim in Spain, perhaps they are a surgeon
:11:13. > :11:15.and they are next to a Catholic surgeon, a Christian surgeon, is
:11:16. > :11:22.that surgeon gonna be chosen over the more someone? We not talking
:11:23. > :11:29.talking about religion. Why does it save Western Christian culture then?
:11:30. > :11:33.Well, the idea is simply then we have millions of people in the
:11:34. > :11:39.European Union who have for the moment, no job prospects then it is
:11:40. > :11:42.better to solve burst of all our internal problems. That is nothing
:11:43. > :11:48.against Muslims and nothing against other religions. It is purely about
:11:49. > :11:55.how integrated somebody is in our European way of life. Let me...
:11:56. > :11:59.Equality between men and women. It is different to other regions in the
:12:00. > :12:04.world and that is why it is simply logical to say first of all that is
:12:05. > :12:08.look in our neighbourhood. Where we have unemployed people before we go
:12:09. > :12:15.to Africa or to Asia. And this new document that your party has put
:12:16. > :12:19.forward also wants a ban on the Burke and headscarf in public. It
:12:20. > :12:22.says if people are unwilling to stop wearing them in public they should
:12:23. > :12:27.find themselves another country. The idea is simply to show your face
:12:28. > :12:34.and, you know, that is not only German discussion. We already have
:12:35. > :12:41.in Belgium and in France legislation in place which is not allowing to
:12:42. > :12:46.wear these publicly. It is always a question of how we interpret, let me
:12:47. > :12:52.say, the public sphere, the public atmosphere. And I would say that in
:12:53. > :12:58.the idea of inequality between men and women it is a fair discussion to
:12:59. > :13:04.think about whether Islamic questions are acceptable in our
:13:05. > :13:08.society. Which is why you are also proposing that headscarves be banned
:13:09. > :13:12.in public service and the judiciary. The Green party chairwoman, Simone
:13:13. > :13:18.Peter, has said that your leader clearly wants to make the CSU the
:13:19. > :13:23.Bavarian sister party of the AFP which is the new wing populist party
:13:24. > :13:28.that is doing so well. Are you chasing AFD voters? This is
:13:29. > :13:34.nonsense. In Bavaria were speaking about a region in Germany with 12
:13:35. > :13:38.million inhabitants. It is like Munich. At the moment we have in the
:13:39. > :13:44.polls in Bavaria close to 50% of people who trust in the CSU. We are
:13:45. > :13:49.strong party and that includes a lot of different people, a lot of
:13:50. > :13:53.different interpretations. We do want to have any sort of lessons
:13:54. > :13:59.about how we can help refugees. I want to speak about Brexit because
:14:00. > :14:03.you are the leader of the largest group of EMPs. Will you miss the
:14:04. > :14:08.British EMPs when they leave the European Parliament? From personal
:14:09. > :14:12.contacts with them, absolutely because they contribute quite a lot
:14:13. > :14:16.big way to European development. In the other way, we respect the
:14:17. > :14:23.outcome of the referendum. So you will not be glad to see the backs of
:14:24. > :14:32.the likes of Nigel Farage? I am sad, I am not happy that the decision. I
:14:33. > :14:36.think we managed with David Cameron a good offer to be British but they
:14:37. > :14:42.refused. It is not a debate any longer. It is an outcome of a
:14:43. > :14:46.democratic discussion and now we must accept this. On the other hand
:14:47. > :14:53.I must say that Brexit means of Brexit. When I hear this now from
:14:54. > :14:57.Theresa May then I have to say that I cannot understand why other
:14:58. > :15:03.politicians are asking for full implementation of the single market,
:15:04. > :15:06.about being part of the research area in Europe, where the
:15:07. > :15:11.universities are working together. Rex it means Rex it and not I want
:15:12. > :15:21.to be part of the European Union. I have no understanding for. This is
:15:22. > :15:31.To settle down and buy homes in the EU, is that wrong? First of all, we
:15:32. > :15:35.need Article 50 approach from the government. What I see today is
:15:36. > :15:41.London has no idea what they are asking for. How they can really have
:15:42. > :15:47.an idea of what is an offering of a new relationship between Great
:15:48. > :15:54.Britain and the EU. I see in London, a political disarray. There is no
:15:55. > :15:58.clear direction. A few days after Brexit, the Scottish Prime Minister
:15:59. > :16:03.in Brussels said to me that we were in favour of Europe so we have
:16:04. > :16:07.specific interest so the risk of a split of country of Great Britain.
:16:08. > :16:15.The damage of economy is enormous. When we get to it... The question
:16:16. > :16:20.that I asked, when the negotiations start, can you see a situation where
:16:21. > :16:26.British people will be able to travel freely, travel without visas,
:16:27. > :16:29.study, live, perhaps, you brought up the research group, they will be
:16:30. > :16:33.able to work with other universities, that all that can be
:16:34. > :16:42.established under the new relationship? Sorry, the question is
:16:43. > :16:48.not raised by me. I in favour of free travelling. I am a defender of
:16:49. > :16:54.free movement. I fought for this. Not Boris Johnson and not Nigel
:16:55. > :17:00.Farage. They were against this so why should I answer a question like
:17:01. > :17:10.this? I am in favour of wet European peoples are not -- are equal. I
:17:11. > :17:13.fight for the freedom of movement but I have to respect that the
:17:14. > :17:17.British people don't accept this freedom of movement principle any
:17:18. > :17:22.more. Then we are going back to a time where I don't want to live. But
:17:23. > :17:26.it's a of restricting freedom of movement and probably we are talking
:17:27. > :17:31.about Visa. What I learned from Johnson, it was not my idea. I fight
:17:32. > :17:35.the idea that we are equally treated and we have freedom of movement. So
:17:36. > :17:42.British people will need a these the rest of the EU? Is the Great Britain
:17:43. > :17:46.is introducing a Visa to other Europeans and it will work the other
:17:47. > :17:51.way around, it's logical. That is why we need first of all an idea
:17:52. > :17:56.from great written what does the new relationship mean? For the moment,
:17:57. > :18:00.sorry I have to say, not the Berlin has the problem, not Paris, not roam
:18:01. > :18:13.copper London has a big problem with Brexit. -- Rome. I am not a person
:18:14. > :18:17.to solve the problems of London. Is that after the vote, we need to work
:18:18. > :18:21.immediately to stop uncertainty. Now we know Article 50 will not be in
:18:22. > :18:25.until next year and sometimes it will be late next year. You accept
:18:26. > :18:33.that that is now unavoidable, it will be a much slower process? We
:18:34. > :18:37.from European level have no legal alternative. We have to wait the
:18:38. > :18:41.Article 50. That is the procedure and we cannot force anybody to
:18:42. > :18:49.request or make Article 50 procedure. That's why we are waiting
:18:50. > :18:53.for London. I could only say having the question of freedom of movement
:18:54. > :19:01.in mind. You are the people who are living today in London? The German,
:19:02. > :19:05.the French? All the people from England who are living in Spain?
:19:06. > :19:11.They need certainty. The government in Great Britain is it swiftly
:19:12. > :19:15.coming up with the proposal. And starting Article 50. Then we can
:19:16. > :19:24.negotiate and avoid any kind of further uncertainty. Even the former
:19:25. > :19:28.president of the European Council made the point that you can't have
:19:29. > :19:33.substantial Brexit talks until the new German government is in place
:19:34. > :19:37.and that would be for another year. Well, everybody is waiting for the
:19:38. > :19:40.reason may and for the government in Great Britain to give a proper
:19:41. > :19:45.answer of the Brexit outcome. We need an idea, what are the new
:19:46. > :19:50.relationships, what is the idea of Great Britain and we want to know it
:19:51. > :19:55.do you want to leave now or don't you? There is no Article 50
:19:56. > :19:58.activated for the moment. We have no problem with the German elections or
:19:59. > :20:04.the French elections. It's a British question that is on the table and
:20:05. > :20:09.frankly speaking, political impact European, there is a support when
:20:10. > :20:14.you ask European citizens today what you think about Europe? For example,
:20:15. > :20:18.in Germany, we have the highest support for the idea of European
:20:19. > :20:24.Union since 1977. People aren't always happy about Brussels. There
:20:25. > :20:29.is a lot of problems in Brussels we have to solve, for sure. But people
:20:30. > :20:34.see with the Brexit thing that uncertainty for economy and for my
:20:35. > :20:37.daily life at the citizens of European Union, to leave European
:20:38. > :20:42.Union is the wrong answer. That is an impact we have to face. Dew thing
:20:43. > :20:46.that will also play into the negotiations that Britain cannot be
:20:47. > :20:52.seen to get a good deal? It needs to almost be punished for leaving the
:20:53. > :20:57.EU? Sorry, nobody will be punished. Beta cannot but it good deal from
:20:58. > :21:01.the Brussels point of view. It means that you want to leave, Great
:21:02. > :21:05.Britain wants to leave the European Union. Immediately after saying
:21:06. > :21:09.this, you want to you leave the European Union, everybody's telling
:21:10. > :21:13.me but on this point, we don't want to leave because we want to be part
:21:14. > :21:18.of the European Union. In the research area, they have a lot to be
:21:19. > :21:23.part of the EU. For British people to have free movement, they want to
:21:24. > :21:27.be part. Immediately, I see a lot of statements, politicians from Great
:21:28. > :21:31.Britain tell me, from this point I want to join. I want to have the
:21:32. > :21:35.rules of the European Union Nike single market. That is creating,
:21:36. > :21:38.from my point of view, a little bit of cannot understand the position of
:21:39. > :21:42.Great Britain. So you want to leave, that means no freedom of movement.
:21:43. > :21:46.You want to leave, that means no single market. You want to me, that
:21:47. > :21:50.means no access to research area and that is creating damage for all of
:21:51. > :21:55.us. That is why I was fighting for yes, being part of this union but if
:21:56. > :21:59.you want to leave, you have to live this is the result of leaving the
:22:00. > :22:02.European Union. That is what they have to say. It has nothing to do
:22:03. > :22:06.with punishment. Leaving means leaving and that is what I hear all
:22:07. > :22:10.the day from the reason may, Brexit means Brexit. And then IM accused
:22:11. > :22:16.that I respect the outcome of the Brexit. And that means leaving the
:22:17. > :22:22.European Union, sorry. Just after the vote, there was something
:22:23. > :22:29.written about tensions including refugees. It said the EU has broken
:22:30. > :22:32.down and ceased to satisfy its citizens' needs and aspirations. It
:22:33. > :22:35.is heading for a disorderly disintegration that will leave
:22:36. > :22:40.Europe worse off than where it had been had the EU not been brought
:22:41. > :22:43.into existence. It speaks to something that many people suggest
:22:44. > :22:49.that there is a crisis of democracy. There is not. The principle of
:22:50. > :22:53.democracy is good and is convincing for the people. We have a crisis of
:22:54. > :22:57.leadership in the European Union. Look to David Cameron, he made his
:22:58. > :23:02.whole career in Great Britain in accusing the European Union.
:23:03. > :23:09.Bureaucrats and this anti- whatever. A lot of politicians made their
:23:10. > :23:14.political gain from accusing Brussels from all their problems.
:23:15. > :23:19.Before the referendum, he changed his mind and try to convince the
:23:20. > :23:26.people that the EU was a good team. That is not convincing. In Brussels,
:23:27. > :23:30.people are not always perfect, OK but the main debate is this still a
:23:31. > :23:34.national debate. We need politicians who takes the responsibility and
:23:35. > :23:39.showed the people, sorry, that we are living in a globalised. How you
:23:40. > :23:44.want to defend Great Britain steel sector against the Chinese with
:23:45. > :23:50.risking a trade war with China? Good luck when Great Britain wants to win
:23:51. > :23:55.a trade war with China. When we as Europeans are defending our steel
:23:56. > :23:58.industry, then we are really powerful, 500 million inhabitants
:23:59. > :24:03.and consumers but each individual member of the European Union cannot
:24:04. > :24:06.win such a war. That is why I am sure that at the end the European
:24:07. > :24:13.Union approach, the European Union approach is not under pressure. It
:24:14. > :24:16.is the politicians especially on the European national level have to
:24:17. > :24:23.convince people this is the only way for all of us to defend our European
:24:24. > :24:44.way of life. Manfred Weber, thank you very much. Thank you.