:00:00. > :00:11.'Change', Nigerians have been told to tell themselves,
:00:12. > :00:15.Change is certainly needed: the economy is contracting
:00:16. > :00:18.for the first time in 25 years, in the north east famine
:00:19. > :00:21.is threatened, and even the President chides Nigerians that
:00:22. > :00:27.too many are dishonest, indolent and corrupt.
:00:28. > :00:33.Okechukwu Enelamah, the Minister for Trade,
:00:34. > :00:36.wants to break his country's dependence on oil.
:00:37. > :00:38.But with foreign investors pulling out and blaming hostile policies,
:00:39. > :01:18.Thank you for being with us. President Muhammadu Buhari took his
:01:19. > :01:24.time to appoint you and his ministers. It must have been
:01:25. > :01:28.frustrating to see the economy begin to struggle at the government
:01:29. > :01:35.sitting on its hands? First, thank you for having met stop I think, for
:01:36. > :01:42.us, we viewed it as a major opportunity. That is something we
:01:43. > :01:48.promise ourselves to do for a long time. A crisis is too great an
:01:49. > :01:55.opportunity to waste. In terms of ridding ourselves of dependence on
:01:56. > :02:02.oil, diversifying our economy, sources of revenue and foreign
:02:03. > :02:08.exchange. Clearly, our work is cut out for us and we are hard at it.
:02:09. > :02:15.The reality is it would have been easier it had started sooner. From
:02:16. > :02:21.July, 2015, sometime after the change of government, about its
:02:22. > :02:28.companies have closed, 100,000 workers have in late. There is a
:02:29. > :02:31.question the intention and good but this process has been delayed and in
:02:32. > :02:37.the meantime the government has taken some hopeless decision, for
:02:38. > :02:47.example, foreign investors fleeing after decisions by the Federal bank.
:02:48. > :02:53.Let me say that for the President, he wanted to appoint the ministers
:02:54. > :03:01.having understood first what he was getting into, round pegs in round
:03:02. > :03:07.holes and in hindsight, I believe he made the right decision. This is a
:03:08. > :03:13.journey and even though it looks like a long one after one year or
:03:14. > :03:20.so, it is a relatively short time in terms of nationbuilding. The
:03:21. > :03:25.economic policies, monetary, fiscal, trade, we needed to bring them in
:03:26. > :03:30.alignment and where we started from was a currency which was fixed at
:03:31. > :03:35.that currency is where we started from and, frankly, we had to make
:03:36. > :03:43.decisions subsequently... If you would have done that, a few months
:03:44. > :03:49.earlier when UN office, that is the criticism from business. Let's talk
:03:50. > :03:56.about the future. Companies investing in emerging countries say
:03:57. > :04:04.Nigeria needs to diversify the economy away from yours. What is
:04:05. > :04:11.yours? I agree completely. Our recipe is simple. But one which is
:04:12. > :04:15.tested and true. That is something I interested in. The key starting
:04:16. > :04:22.point is making it a lot easier to do business in our country. We need
:04:23. > :04:33.the right environment. I go back to Nigeria in 19 98th having scored and
:04:34. > :04:38.work abroad. We have been talking about the environment. We are
:04:39. > :04:45.committed to deliver on our promise. We are talking about making it
:04:46. > :04:49.easier to do business, removing constraints and increasing the cost
:04:50. > :04:55.of doing business. About policies, we are talking about them more
:04:56. > :05:05.predictably and more transparently. The next thing, in terms of
:05:06. > :05:11.industrial policy, to be highly if. -- selective. There was already an
:05:12. > :05:19.industrial policy that was well prepared. Well documented, and our
:05:20. > :05:27.commitment as a government is to make sure we implement it. Rather
:05:28. > :05:32.than just change policy abruptly. It took about investment and change
:05:33. > :05:37.that you economy is essentially still reliant on oil at a time when
:05:38. > :05:43.oil prices have fallen and there is no sign of them significantly
:05:44. > :05:50.recovering, never mind damaged pipelines, vandalism and other
:05:51. > :05:55.things. How do you get an economy away from its dependence on one
:05:56. > :06:06.resource that has been the source of so much of its wealth. Long? There
:06:07. > :06:10.is an expression that says, we need oil to diversify away from oil. We
:06:11. > :06:15.are not against oil. We need to do everything possible to rebuild the
:06:16. > :06:22.oil economy, making sure the vandalism stops,... You do, the
:06:23. > :06:27.Federal budget 2.2 million barrels per day was going to be produced but
:06:28. > :06:32.because of these attacks, it is down to 1.56 million stop you already
:06:33. > :06:36.argued to have less money and a recession as well eating away at the
:06:37. > :06:42.productive part of the economy and private sector. We do need to
:06:43. > :06:47.rebuild the oil economy and we are working actively with private sector
:06:48. > :06:50.players and oil companies to do that fool 's top also working with
:06:51. > :06:57.communities where the oil is produced to better understand. We
:06:58. > :07:01.all lose, frankly, if we do not take care of the resources and
:07:02. > :07:07.infrastructure. We also need to take advantage of the oil price
:07:08. > :07:15.environment we are in. We import a lot of things. We have only one shot
:07:16. > :07:20.at export. That is to skewed. That is what the versification is all
:07:21. > :07:25.about, foreign exchange and resources for the government and
:07:26. > :07:32.country. The former vice president things this focus on oil is still
:07:33. > :07:39.paralysing. We have constant complaints about oil and they tend
:07:40. > :07:46.to divert from challenges we need to face. The economic model simply does
:07:47. > :07:52.not work. It is not rocket science. My strong view it is about
:07:53. > :07:58.implementation of a few things. I will tell you two or three that are
:07:59. > :08:03.central. Micro economic policies. The context in which to play. That
:08:04. > :08:08.context needs to give people reasonable assurances around
:08:09. > :08:14.policies which have to do with trade, investment and so on. The
:08:15. > :08:21.next thing that is important is that the government should be an enabler
:08:22. > :08:25.and a helper is not an adversary... Bike in the teeth of recession is
:08:26. > :08:32.government publishing companies? A list of 41 products that if people
:08:33. > :08:36.import them, they are not allowed to have access to foreign exchange?
:08:37. > :08:43.That is an example of a classic dilemma. Hang on, before we get onto
:08:44. > :08:54.the dilemma, what is the point of this list? Indian insects?
:08:55. > :09:00.Toothpicks? Is somebody else in porting them? Basically, Nigeria
:09:01. > :09:05.wants to produce more of what it consumes... But do you really do
:09:06. > :09:09.that by coming up with the least that if you bought these things, we
:09:10. > :09:14.will punish you in the hope that another company will produce them
:09:15. > :09:19.instead? The intention is not to punish... Are you going to scrap
:09:20. > :09:29.that list? Let me finish, if you let me finish you will find your answers
:09:30. > :09:41.questions will be answered. Our intention... There are unintended
:09:42. > :09:45.consequences. At this look at raw materials. As a government, we
:09:46. > :09:51.identified those things which are raw material to make sure to stop
:09:52. > :09:56.them coming into the country. Those raw materials would disappear but do
:09:57. > :10:01.you still think it right for government to direct the economy
:10:02. > :10:06.this way, to stop these things coming in? My sense is that a better
:10:07. > :10:11.policy will be to create the right incentives for those things you do
:10:12. > :10:19.not want imported to stop coming in, Paris all whatever way. Let me make
:10:20. > :10:26.the point again. -- tariffs or whatever other way. Most people like
:10:27. > :10:39.to come back and think they are geniuses but the process of building
:10:40. > :10:42.an economy is very delicate. That flexibility, the willingness to make
:10:43. > :10:47.corrections until you get where you want to be. President Muhammadu
:10:48. > :10:51.Buhari has been commemorating the anniversary of the countries
:10:52. > :10:54.Independent and he delivered a speech in which he said, Nigeria has
:10:55. > :11:00.changed beyond belief internationally. Investors from all
:11:01. > :11:05.over the world are falling over themselves to come and do business
:11:06. > :11:10.in Nigeria. Is that your experience? There are two point find
:11:11. > :11:18.interesting. It is absolutely true the Nigerian international standard
:11:19. > :11:24.has improved. The election was much followed and we are grateful to God
:11:25. > :11:32.for that. Secondly, the President has made it a point of duty, really,
:11:33. > :11:37.to work on our standard abroad. The second thing which is frankly our
:11:38. > :11:42.responsibility and I accept responsibility as a minister, with
:11:43. > :11:48.other members, is to attract investment. Nigeria has good
:11:49. > :11:54.investment fundamentally but we need to... The rest of the world falling
:11:55. > :12:04.over themselves seems to stand in direct contrast saying that foreign
:12:05. > :12:10.investment has nearly dried up. Figures released in September, it is
:12:11. > :12:19.down 30% compared to last year. Capital coming in down 74.5%. As a
:12:20. > :12:27.former banker put it, it is spooking the international community. They
:12:28. > :12:38.are surprised nobody is investing in anything real? Investors hate
:12:39. > :12:42.uncertainty. Capital is risk averse and generally shy and the truth is
:12:43. > :12:47.Nigeria has gone through a turbulent experience and no investor wants to
:12:48. > :12:54.take the risk. What we need to do as a government in the to create
:12:55. > :12:59.reassurances and sent a strong signal. You need to understand that
:13:00. > :13:06.they hailed the president coming in. They stopped investment ahead of the
:13:07. > :13:13.election. When he came in they waited to see what he is policies
:13:14. > :13:16.are, and some are still waiting. We believe that Nigeria as an
:13:17. > :13:23.investment case is still credible but we need to take responsibility
:13:24. > :13:30.to make sure these investors when they invested their investment are
:13:31. > :13:36.safe and long-term. Change against with me is what the president says.
:13:37. > :13:42.It is as much about personal as economic behaviour. In a speech he
:13:43. > :13:51.gave, he said honesty, integrity, hard work, have given way in the
:13:52. > :13:52.main to dishonesty, indolence, unbridled corruption and widespread
:13:53. > :14:07.impunity. Have you seen that in Nigeria needs to get back to where
:14:08. > :14:11.we aspire to be, a place that we are proud of. Those views are not
:14:12. > :14:17.controversial. The point of the President is that those values are
:14:18. > :14:20.collective responsibility. The government will hand down values,
:14:21. > :14:24.traditional values. There is no society where, you know, values are
:14:25. > :14:28.not appointed by the government insiders cited. I think the point
:14:29. > :14:33.the president is making is that we as Nigerians, the civil society,
:14:34. > :14:38.business, government, should accept that these values are the one that
:14:39. > :14:46.we aspire to and these are values we want to see our country built on.
:14:47. > :14:50.And anticorruption group said that Nigeria needs to change but it needs
:14:51. > :14:55.to start with the leadership in the right area, setting the right
:14:56. > :15:03.example. That is our past. That is why we have a leader that you would
:15:04. > :15:06.not argue that this leadership does not set an example. President
:15:07. > :15:13.Buhari, is accepted in terms of his integrity. We believe in the power.
:15:14. > :15:19.You may believe in the power of example but look at the specific
:15:20. > :15:25.demand. Why does the Nigerian government need 11 aircraft in a
:15:26. > :15:31.recession? Why do they have capital expenditure without a project? Those
:15:32. > :15:35.are two very specific things. Basically, the point with the
:15:36. > :15:44.aircraft, you are talking about where we're coming from. Sell them
:15:45. > :15:51.off. That is an option. How many do you think you need? Do you think 19
:15:52. > :15:55.is too many? I have many questions about the budget. And then the
:15:56. > :15:59.second point I wanted to make is that when you talk about $400
:16:00. > :16:04.billion cut from our budget that is frankly for the things we need to
:16:05. > :16:11.do, government providing that is not enough. We have a real issue, for
:16:12. > :16:15.the time it takes for issues to translate to visible projects and
:16:16. > :16:20.results, that is common. I believe that. It is a matter of time. Let me
:16:21. > :16:26.ask you directly then about allegations you have faced. Claims
:16:27. > :16:32.that currency was transferred out of Nigeria illegally and motion laid
:16:33. > :16:37.before Parliament which said that five banks were involved in the
:16:38. > :16:40.alleged transfers of the transport minister was that among the people
:16:41. > :16:50.used to help repatriate the funds. Were you? It was one of the
:16:51. > :16:56.companies that came in in 2001. It came in with other companies. The
:16:57. > :17:06.process was successful and we have had a telecom revolution. It has
:17:07. > :17:12.done well for Nigeria and itself. Importantly also to investors. I
:17:13. > :17:18.happen to have been the CEO of one of the companies that attracted
:17:19. > :17:22.investment. It is a very good story but every market, as you know, when
:17:23. > :17:28.you have a successful story people want to know if we did adore
:17:29. > :17:35.legitimately or was there something wrong? I can assure you that it is
:17:36. > :17:40.very successful. You did not transfer money illegally out of the
:17:41. > :17:43.country? Absolutely. When the dividends are taken out of the
:17:44. > :17:52.country by shareholders would dividends. I and the company was not
:17:53. > :17:55.in a position to deal with that. The chief executor of the country told
:17:56. > :18:03.is that those allegations made against the company were put in a
:18:04. > :18:08.motion before Parliament. The essence of this seems to be this
:18:09. > :18:15.contention, as you say, because of your involvement. President Buhari
:18:16. > :18:18.delayed appointing ministers because it wanted to affect their competence
:18:19. > :18:24.and honesty. Did you talk about this? My sense is that you have now
:18:25. > :18:31.hit nail on the head. Even you if it is credible, I tell you that we have
:18:32. > :18:39.clean hands when we present the Nigeria we want to see. Did he ask
:18:40. > :18:44.you about your involvement? There is nothing wrong with my involvement in
:18:45. > :18:52.NTN. He did not need to ask me about it. It is just one company that goes
:18:53. > :19:00.about its business. There is absolutely nothing wrong with NTN.
:19:01. > :19:05.And what about your relationship? That is the allegation at the
:19:06. > :19:09.Centre. I was an investor myself. There is nothing wrong with having
:19:10. > :19:14.investments. It could be argued that this is more about incompetence than
:19:15. > :19:19.mismanagement, that the company did not have the paperwork to prove it
:19:20. > :19:28.had brought the similar amount money into the country. The problem is
:19:29. > :19:33.that reinforces suspicion amongst some Nigerians that if you have
:19:34. > :19:37.money, the rules do not apply. Banks think they do not need paperwork.
:19:38. > :19:41.This is a valuable company and we can just move money around, the
:19:42. > :19:45.rules do not apply. I don't think so. My sense is that NTN went
:19:46. > :19:52.through the normal process. They were very successful. Any number of
:19:53. > :19:58.groups have questioned our success but it is important to the economy.
:19:59. > :20:06.We need to keep our investors and when you invest in Nigeria,
:20:07. > :20:10.investors are point of entry. It is a point about taking money out. That
:20:11. > :20:18.is why two airlines, one of them the Spanish airline Iberia, have decided
:20:19. > :20:22.to stop flying to Nigeria because they cannot take their money out. If
:20:23. > :20:28.you have in environment, wouldn't it be difficult to attract investors?
:20:29. > :20:35.Let us not kid ourselves. There will be times when you need to create
:20:36. > :20:40.liquidity, more foreign exchange. The key point I am making, however,
:20:41. > :20:46.is that the long-term potential remained fundamentally attractive. I
:20:47. > :20:52.argue that many airlines have a long-term vision, many of them have
:20:53. > :20:58.categorically... You want to persuade them back? Those two may
:20:59. > :21:04.not come back but there are many, many more still there. This is
:21:05. > :21:07.temporary. Certainly hope so. There is problem is getting foreign
:21:08. > :21:14.country and see coming into the country. Many factory owners
:21:15. > :21:17.consider the hacks as too hard currency difficult and can only
:21:18. > :21:25.important women in on the black market. Nigeria at most of its money
:21:26. > :21:29.from oil and spread across the rest of the economy. There is no other
:21:30. > :21:32.country in the world, maybe a few others, in general what has happened
:21:33. > :21:37.is that it is liberalised and you allow an adequate supply and demand.
:21:38. > :21:45.That is what we are creating. We are creating a moral market. You may
:21:46. > :21:49.find it inconvenient, it is certainly sustainable. That is what
:21:50. > :21:52.we are doing we want to create a stable economy with inadequate
:21:53. > :21:55.supply of foreign exchange including from the private sector, not just
:21:56. > :22:01.depending on the government to hand out exchange, currency. And getting
:22:02. > :22:06.off the black market in the process. Exactly. I just wonder if the
:22:07. > :22:13.President is beginning to lose patients with the progress. The
:22:14. > :22:26.voice of America was recently told that they need better judicial
:22:27. > :22:30.services. The three arms of government, the judiciary, that
:22:31. > :22:34.legislate if... That is the frustration of a man who was elected
:22:35. > :22:38.president was not once a military dictator. That would have been much
:22:39. > :22:44.easier. In other words, it is the same democratic engagement. It is
:22:45. > :22:49.something you must accept, it is something you need to accept with
:22:50. > :22:54.all the checks and balances. Let me ask you about the threat to the
:22:55. > :22:58.future of Nigeria. We were warned that there is a danger of famine in
:22:59. > :23:04.the north-east, that up to 50,000 children could die unless it is
:23:05. > :23:16.tackled. How are you worried about your country's future. Young people
:23:17. > :23:25.with stunted growth, starving children,. I will deal with those
:23:26. > :23:28.questions quickly. In my situation there are many things that require
:23:29. > :23:36.attention I can assure you we are aggressively on top of these things.
:23:37. > :23:40.You win a war and then you have a humanitarian crisis. The new talk
:23:41. > :23:46.about the children. We need to restructure our economy and deal
:23:47. > :23:50.with the new economy beyond oil. It is building an asset on a liability,
:23:51. > :23:55.depending on what you do with it. By creating the environment for our
:23:56. > :24:01.use, let me just use one example, if you look at the Digital economy
:24:02. > :24:04.youth have surprised us positively by their level of engagement and
:24:05. > :24:07.involvement. That must be encouraged and we need to include better
:24:08. > :24:14.infrastructure for them, or get out of their way in allowing them to
:24:15. > :24:16.engage with the rest of the world. Thank you very much for being with
:24:17. > :24:42.us today. Thank you. We are now pretty confident that
:24:43. > :24:46.Hurricane Matthew is going to slam