0:00:19 > 0:00:20Marine Le Pen, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:00:20 > 0:00:23Merci.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25Let me ask you a very broad question.
0:00:25 > 0:00:28Do you see yourself and your political movement as part
0:00:28 > 0:00:33of a worldwide phenomenon?
0:00:33 > 0:00:35I'm thinking of Donald Trump in the United States.
0:00:35 > 0:00:38I'm thinking of the vote for Brexit in the United Kingdom.
0:00:38 > 0:00:42Do you think something is happening which the Front National,
0:00:42 > 0:00:46your party, is a part of?
0:01:55 > 0:01:59Well, let's focus in on the impact of the Brexit vote in the UK.
0:01:59 > 0:02:02You described it as the most important event since the fall
0:02:02 > 0:02:03of the Berlin Wall.
0:02:03 > 0:02:06Do you really believe that France wants Frexit in the way
0:02:06 > 0:02:12that the British people voted for Brexit?
0:03:06 > 0:03:09Your problem is that all the polling evidence since the Brexit vote
0:03:09 > 0:03:12is that the French people do not actually want to leave
0:03:12 > 0:03:15the European Union.
0:03:15 > 0:03:18In fact, more French people today say that they want to remain
0:03:18 > 0:03:20inside than before the British vote.
0:03:20 > 0:03:23So you're not actually expressing the will of the French people.
0:03:47 > 0:03:50Forgive me for interrupting, but why would the French people look
0:03:50 > 0:03:53across the Channel to Britain and want to follow Britain
0:03:53 > 0:03:56when we see that the British pound is now at historic lows
0:03:56 > 0:04:07against international currencies?
0:04:07 > 0:04:09We see huge uncertainty, which is provoked by businesses
0:04:09 > 0:04:13in Japan and across the world saying they are now very concerned
0:04:13 > 0:04:15about staying in Britain and might well leave.
0:04:15 > 0:04:18Why would the French want to follow that model?
0:05:00 > 0:05:02Let us not forget that Britain hasn't actually left
0:05:02 > 0:05:03the European Union yet.
0:05:03 > 0:05:06And all of the indications are that the next two years
0:05:06 > 0:05:08are going to be extraordinarily difficult for the UK Government.
0:05:40 > 0:05:42OK, let's examine another key plank of your platform going
0:05:42 > 0:05:48into the 2017 election season.
0:05:48 > 0:05:52Not only are you telling the French people that you want to pull out
0:05:52 > 0:05:54of the European Union, you're also telling them that
0:05:54 > 0:05:58you want to halt immigration into France.
0:05:58 > 0:06:02The truth is, you have consistently exaggerated the scale and the impact
0:06:02 > 0:06:08of immigration into France.
0:06:22 > 0:06:25You called it a tsunami, but it's not a tsunami.
0:06:25 > 0:06:27Compare France and Germany, for example.
0:06:27 > 0:06:28Last year France...
0:06:28 > 0:06:30Hang on!
0:06:30 > 0:06:31What was it?
0:06:31 > 0:06:33About 70,000 asylum seeking immigrants.
0:06:33 > 0:06:34Germany took...
0:06:34 > 0:06:35Hang on!
0:06:35 > 0:06:39Germany took half a million.
0:06:49 > 0:06:5170,000 people seeking asylum in France, that's
0:06:51 > 0:06:55not being submerged.
0:07:58 > 0:08:00You say people come with no rights.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02Of course, that's not true.
0:08:02 > 0:08:03If people are fleeing persecution and war,
0:08:03 > 0:08:06they do have rights under international law.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09And two years ago, you said send them all back home.
0:08:10 > 0:08:12Even to countries at war.
0:08:12 > 0:08:15But you know that is a clear violation of the Geneva conventions
0:08:15 > 0:08:18of international war.
0:08:18 > 0:08:20Is that your message to the French people?
0:08:20 > 0:08:26That you're prepared to violate international law?
0:09:25 > 0:09:29Most politicians say they want to unite their countries.
0:09:29 > 0:09:34You appear to want to divide yours, with the language you use.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36Not just you, your party.
0:09:36 > 0:09:39Right now there are Front National councils who are declaring
0:09:39 > 0:09:43themselves immigrant-free zones.
0:09:43 > 0:09:47You not so long ago talked about Muslims being seen praying
0:09:47 > 0:09:50in the streets as equivalent to the feelings French people had
0:09:50 > 0:09:53during the Nazi occupation.
0:09:53 > 0:09:56The language you use is the language of division.
0:09:56 > 0:09:59Is that what France wants?
0:10:51 > 0:10:52I talked about exaggeration.
0:10:52 > 0:10:55It seems to me, even in this interview, you are
0:10:55 > 0:10:55exaggerating again.
0:10:55 > 0:11:01When you talk about security you clearly, you clearly imply
0:11:01 > 0:11:05that the migrants who are coming to France are bringing with them
0:11:05 > 0:11:07terror, bringing with them the ideology of the Islamic State.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10But the truth is, look at France's recent terror attacks,
0:11:10 > 0:11:12God knows they have been terrible.
0:11:12 > 0:11:15But the terror attacks, in the main, have been
0:11:15 > 0:11:17the work of French citizens.
0:11:17 > 0:11:20Men born in France or neighbouring Belgium.
0:11:20 > 0:11:22These are the people.
0:11:22 > 0:11:25So unless you're suggesting that they all be thrown out
0:11:25 > 0:11:34of the country I don't quite see the connection with security.
0:12:21 > 0:12:24Some of your own supporters feel that your messages have become
0:12:24 > 0:12:25mixed in recent months.
0:12:25 > 0:12:29For example, you told a French TV channel recently that "Islam
0:12:29 > 0:12:39is compatible with the values of the French Republic".
0:12:39 > 0:12:42So if that is true some of the rhetoric you have used
0:12:42 > 0:12:46in the past seems to be, now, something you have abandoned.
0:12:46 > 0:12:49So which Marine Le Pen is today, is it the moderate Marine Le Pen
0:12:49 > 0:12:53who says that Islam is compatible with the French republic?
0:12:53 > 0:12:56Or the Marine Le Pen who talks about Muslims praying in the street
0:12:56 > 0:13:02being like the Nazi occupation?
0:13:52 > 0:13:53Let me test you...
0:13:53 > 0:13:57If I may, Madame Le Pen, may I quote to you the words
0:13:57 > 0:13:58of your own niece.
0:13:58 > 0:13:58Marion.
0:13:58 > 0:14:01Who, of course, is now an MP here in France.
0:14:01 > 0:14:05She said, we are not a land of Islam and if French citizens can be
0:14:05 > 0:14:09Muslims, it is only on the condition to submit to the habits and ways
0:14:09 > 0:14:12of life that the Greek - Roman influence and 16 centuries
0:14:12 > 0:14:13of Christianity have shaped in our country.
0:14:13 > 0:14:15Do you agree with that?
0:15:19 > 0:15:22I understand, I think, I hope, I understand the values
0:15:22 > 0:15:22of the Republic.
0:15:22 > 0:15:26And one of the three key values of the Republic is liberte.
0:15:26 > 0:15:29Where is the liberte in you telling Muslim women that they cannot go
0:15:29 > 0:15:33on to the beach covered in a way that they would like to be covered.
0:15:33 > 0:15:37Where is the liberte in that?
0:16:17 > 0:16:20Women have the right to choose, do they not?
0:16:20 > 0:16:23Muslim women, just like Christian women, as a right to choose
0:16:23 > 0:16:24what they wear on the beach.
0:16:24 > 0:16:25Surely?
0:16:25 > 0:16:28When you say the French beaches are those of Brigitte Bardot,
0:16:28 > 0:16:29that sounds absurd to many people.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32I mean, why can't women decide whether they want to look
0:16:32 > 0:16:33like Brigitte Bardot or look like somebody else?
0:16:52 > 0:16:54What I find really interesting about your politics right now
0:16:54 > 0:16:58is that while you try to reach out with your message to the French
0:16:58 > 0:17:01people as a whole, of course in the run-up to the presidential
0:17:01 > 0:17:03election, many people in your own party are beginning
0:17:03 > 0:17:07to worry that you are abandoning some of the principles of the Front
0:17:07 > 0:17:13National.
0:17:13 > 0:17:17For example, in your posters you no longer use the name of the party.
0:17:17 > 0:17:19You no longer use the symbol of the flame.
0:17:19 > 0:17:22And your own father, the founder of the Front National,
0:17:22 > 0:17:24John Marie Le Pen, he's been on my programme,
0:17:24 > 0:17:28he has worried very publicly that you are, to use his phrase,
0:17:28 > 0:17:30committing political suicide by leaving the traditions
0:17:30 > 0:17:38of the Front National.
0:17:38 > 0:17:39How do you respond to that?
0:18:27 > 0:18:27But you have...
0:18:27 > 0:18:31Do you not accept you have a problem, as you try to reach out
0:18:31 > 0:18:35to more of the - if you can put it this way -
0:18:35 > 0:18:38the centre-right ground in French politics, the danger is that some
0:18:38 > 0:18:40of those in the mainstream centre-right, like Nicolas Sarkozy,
0:18:40 > 0:18:44for example, they try to steal your clothes.
0:18:44 > 0:18:47Sarkozy, according to your own father, is now taking some
0:18:47 > 0:18:50of your photos by being stronger on security, stronger on his message
0:18:50 > 0:18:54about Islam, than you are.
0:19:27 > 0:19:27CHUCKLES.
0:19:27 > 0:19:29You say you're a woman of great principle.
0:19:29 > 0:19:33Where is the principle in taking huge amounts of money from a Russian
0:19:33 > 0:19:37bank to finance your political campaigns?
0:19:37 > 0:19:40You took, of course, millions of euros from the Czech-Russian
0:19:40 > 0:19:47bank, which has since gone bankrupt.
0:19:47 > 0:19:51And now your own financial bosses in the party say that you need 8
0:19:51 > 0:19:54million euros to fund your presidential election campaign.
0:19:54 > 0:19:56Are you going to go to Russia again and try and get Russian money?
0:20:25 > 0:20:29The only problem with taking Russian money is that you then have to say
0:20:29 > 0:20:31things like, I have an admiration for Vladimir Putin.
0:20:31 > 0:20:35You have to say things like, yes, if I'm in power I will recognise
0:20:35 > 0:20:36the annexation of Crimea.
0:20:36 > 0:20:39You talk like a woman of principle but where is the principle in that?
0:21:54 > 0:21:57Before we end, I have to ask you about the political
0:21:57 > 0:21:59process in France.
0:21:59 > 0:22:02You can in the end, still face what they call
0:22:02 > 0:22:04here the glass ceiling.
0:22:04 > 0:22:11Your poll ratings are pretty good right now, and it seems that
0:22:11 > 0:22:13you stand a very good chance of getting...
0:22:13 > 0:22:17The truth is, even if you get into the second round of the presidential
0:22:17 > 0:22:19election, nobody in France believes you can win,
0:22:19 > 0:22:21because the mainstream parties, the Republicans, the Socialists,
0:22:21 > 0:22:34will ensure you are defeated in the second round.
0:22:34 > 0:22:35How can you smash this glass ceiling?
0:23:28 > 0:23:30Marine Le Pen, we have to end there.
0:23:30 > 0:23:32But thank you very much for being being an HARDtalk.
0:23:32 > 0:23:33Merci a vous.
0:23:33 > 0:23:34Merci a vous.
0:23:34 > 0:23:35Merci bien.
0:23:35 > 0:23:37Merci.
0:24:01 > 0:24:06Hello there.
0:24:06 > 0:24:08For many places it has turned into another decidedly
0:24:08 > 0:24:11chilly autumn night.