Iain Duncan Smith, Former Work and Pensions Secretary and Brexiteer

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:00:00. > :00:20.The question of what Britain's post-divorce relationship

:00:21. > :00:22.with the EU will look like dwarfs all else

:00:23. > :00:27.It will define Theresa May's premiership whether she likes

:00:28. > :00:35.a Conservative die-hard Brexiteer who fell out with David Cameron

:00:36. > :00:38.and is now watching Prime Minister May like a hawk.

:00:39. > :00:40.Can she please the Brexiteers without destabilising

:00:41. > :01:17.Iain Duncan Smith, welcome to HARDtalk.

:01:18. > :01:24.I think it is fair to say that the reality of Brexit is sinking in, not

:01:25. > :01:29.just in the UK but all around the world, and one of the most striking

:01:30. > :01:38.aspects of the reaction we see is the sinking value of the British

:01:39. > :01:43.pound. There is a lack of confidence from the rest of the world. Does

:01:44. > :01:47.that give you concern? Not at all. I think you need to look on a wider

:01:48. > :01:52.scale to balance really what the world is thinking. The value of the

:01:53. > :01:56.pound as a lot of the Commons believe has been too high for some

:01:57. > :02:00.time. One of the reasons British manufacturers have struggled so much

:02:01. > :02:04.to sell into Europe, and you've seen our share of oversea trade with

:02:05. > :02:10.Europe falling, it is because basically the pound has been very

:02:11. > :02:15.high value, partly because we are getting our economy back in order,

:02:16. > :02:19.but mostly the UK economy has been overrated and this flooring of the

:02:20. > :02:22.pound will be and has been beneficial to manufacturing. No

:02:23. > :02:27.doubt that's true, it has had that one beneficial effect... We see the

:02:28. > :02:32.effect of it in the stock market. But the bottomline is that what we

:02:33. > :02:36.also must appreciate is that the rest of the world looks at the UK

:02:37. > :02:41.and is now valuing the UK and its assets at something like 20% less

:02:42. > :02:45.than it was just a few short months ago and that says something

:02:46. > :02:52.significant about the future view of where Britain is going. But does it?

:02:53. > :02:56.I think if you laid too much on the idea of what happens to a currency

:02:57. > :03:00.in the short term you lose sight of what is the long-term possibility.

:03:01. > :03:08.Here I would just argue that with currency you are always in the world

:03:09. > :03:12.-- in the realms of people who are seeing if they can sell it or by

:03:13. > :03:18.Evan Bourne. So there's an element of this which is casino. -- or buy

:03:19. > :03:23.it long. Of course they will lower the level of the pound until they

:03:24. > :03:27.find out what kind of relationship we have with the EU. That was always

:03:28. > :03:31.expected. But in that period, you can talk to economists like this,

:03:32. > :03:37.they will say that in the short term that's good for the UK economy. Just

:03:38. > :03:41.today, as we sit here, there's been a very interesting survey, out which

:03:42. > :03:46.says that consumer confidence in the UK has not been higher for years and

:03:47. > :03:50.actually when they were asked, where did you think the economy is going

:03:51. > :03:54.and do you think this is positive, it is overwhelmingly positive. So

:03:55. > :03:57.interesting to note that beyond the currency there's a lot of strong

:03:58. > :04:01.signs that actually the British public is buying into the idea that

:04:02. > :04:04.now maybe they are in a position to improve their lot, rather than be

:04:05. > :04:08.worse, which is important because they buy things and our economy is

:04:09. > :04:13.more about the UK than exports. One thing about the timing of the latest

:04:14. > :04:18.round of as you call it gambling against the pound. It did happen

:04:19. > :04:22.after Theresa May made a claim that she will trigger Article 50, that

:04:23. > :04:30.is, given a two-year process of thrashing out a leading deal with

:04:31. > :04:34.the EU, she will trigger it by March of next year. Now, there are many

:04:35. > :04:38.people and indeed some at the very top of the British civil service who

:04:39. > :04:43.think that was a terrible mistake, because it has handed over one of

:04:44. > :04:47.the few cards that she had to play. Again, I don't really agree with

:04:48. > :04:52.them. We are into a new realm of politics in a sense and I think the

:04:53. > :04:55.civil service have got to catch up a little bit. The reality is that I

:04:56. > :05:00.think what the European Union wants, and I agree with them, the system

:05:01. > :05:05.help them out as much as to help us, we need to get on with this as soon

:05:06. > :05:08.as was the land we need to make the break with the EU as quickly as

:05:09. > :05:12.possible, this is what the Germans want, it is what the Commission

:05:13. > :05:16.wants, so we should be working with them to achieve this. So what we

:05:17. > :05:20.need to do is let them know that we are by a certain date going to be

:05:21. > :05:23.officially engaging, we would of course engage previously about

:05:24. > :05:26.elements to do with that, but that's important. The clock is now ticking.

:05:27. > :05:31.We know the trigger will come by March of next year, so the clock is

:05:32. > :05:36.ticking, and what is also plain... Commentators have made this obvious.

:05:37. > :05:40.There is nobody really who believes that two years is going to be long

:05:41. > :05:44.enough to thrash out the highly complex deal that will be the future

:05:45. > :05:52.relationship between the UK and the EU. Therefore, we now face a cliff

:05:53. > :05:56.edge. Two years from March 2017 we face that cliff edge and it is

:05:57. > :06:02.likely there will be no thrashed out deal and Britain will have to face

:06:03. > :06:07.nothing but the standard World Trade Organisation relationship with the

:06:08. > :06:13.EU. That will be a disaster. First of all, on both counts, there are

:06:14. > :06:17.two questions here, first of all I don't agree again with the FT's

:06:18. > :06:21.commentary on this, pretty much totally. I think they've been wrong

:06:22. > :06:26.almost every count, even though they may not admit this now. Far from

:06:27. > :06:33.admitting it, the Financial Times it now says... They got their position

:06:34. > :06:36.wrong over this and their forecast about what would happen to the

:06:37. > :06:40.British economy is fundamentally wrong as well. Let's deal with this

:06:41. > :06:44.in a sense of perspective. Look, rules around Article 50 are very

:06:45. > :06:48.specific. It is that you have to years to get yourself sorted out.

:06:49. > :06:55.There are two elements to Article 50. There is a big misunderstanding.

:06:56. > :06:59.There are two parallel elements. The first is to leave there are lots of

:07:00. > :07:03.functional bits and pieces you need to tidy up as you leave. What are

:07:04. > :07:07.our commitments in financial aspects over a longer period of time, what

:07:08. > :07:10.is our share of things, may be there are pension issues, do we want to

:07:11. > :07:16.stay in things like the arrest warrant and things like that. Basic

:07:17. > :07:19.structural stuff. That is the key to Article 50. The second bid is the

:07:20. > :07:24.parallel position about what you want that relationship to look like

:07:25. > :07:28.after you leave? In the future. That's the point I was making. The

:07:29. > :07:32.first element needs to be complete within the first two years. The

:07:33. > :07:36.second element is open to how simple you make this and how quickly you

:07:37. > :07:42.can get it done. If you go out there with a very complicated ask that you

:07:43. > :07:46.know will not be met, then you will not reach that endpoint. But if, as

:07:47. > :07:50.they argued and I wrote a paper about this, if you keep the ask as

:07:51. > :07:55.simple as possible to them, recognising what they can't possibly

:07:56. > :08:00.give you, that is access... Not access, but membership of what we

:08:01. > :08:04.call the single market... What you mean is that there will be no

:08:05. > :08:08.preferential access at all? Not at all. What I am saying is there is a

:08:09. > :08:12.big difference between membership of the single market and access to the

:08:13. > :08:16.internal market. But the keyword you are using is preferential. Everyone

:08:17. > :08:22.can have access to the single market. North Korea can have access.

:08:23. > :08:26.The key issue is preferential access. You have an arrangement

:08:27. > :08:30.which is about free trade and free access, for goods and services, it

:08:31. > :08:35.is ultimately in the interest of the European Union as much as it is for

:08:36. > :08:40.the UK. Also this idea... That's not true. Can I stop you? I didn't mean

:08:41. > :08:45.to interrupted rudely, but you and many others who are, as I said, the

:08:46. > :08:50.diehard Brexiteers always insist, look, it is as much in their

:08:51. > :08:57.interest, the EU ID seven, as much as in owls to do a deal that works

:08:58. > :09:00.for us both. -- as ours. That's patently not true. If you look at

:09:01. > :09:06.the words of Angela Merkel... Why are you laughing? Because these two

:09:07. > :09:10.people, Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande, are facing election. You

:09:11. > :09:15.wouldn't expect them to say anything publicly other than seeing where

:09:16. > :09:20.they -- a will stay where they are. If I was in a position I would do

:09:21. > :09:24.the same! It is not about short-term politics, it is about long-term

:09:25. > :09:29.politics! It is about the future of the European Union! If you are

:09:30. > :09:33.Francois Hollande Ray Nagin have a very anti-EU party snapping at your

:09:34. > :09:36.heels and you are in a terrible shambles at home, your domestic

:09:37. > :09:41.ratings are shocking. Your worry right now is that actually that

:09:42. > :09:45.party, in this case the national front in France, is going to make

:09:46. > :09:49.major gains on the basis on how that you will say, well, we will be very

:09:50. > :09:52.decent of the British. He won't say anything of the sort until they get

:09:53. > :09:56.through the election. The real point is that. Right now at this level

:09:57. > :09:59.what we should be doing and are doing is talking to lots of

:10:00. > :10:02.different organisations in the European Union, business

:10:03. > :10:06.organisations, organisations in financial services, to speak to them

:10:07. > :10:12.and get the sense from them, and I've had discussions with people

:10:13. > :10:17.from German business and so on, that once this is done and dusted what is

:10:18. > :10:20.in interests of the EU is that we are able to access the British

:10:21. > :10:26.market and vice-versa. That makes sense. To do so without any concept

:10:27. > :10:30.of a massive tariff. That is your beginning. With respect, I think

:10:31. > :10:34.many people in Germany and around Europe will see it as perhaps

:10:35. > :10:38.arrogant and complacent for you to believe that people like Angela

:10:39. > :10:42.Merkel, when she says, if we don't say that full access to the internal

:10:43. > :10:49.market is connected to complete acceptance of the four Brexit is

:10:50. > :10:53.principles, including free movement, where anyone can do what they want,

:10:54. > :11:00.when you say to ignore that because Shias elections coming up, it is

:11:01. > :11:04.nothing more than complacency. What she's talking about his of the

:11:05. > :11:08.single market. In the bout it. She is also talking about preferential

:11:09. > :11:12.access to the single market. She says if you walk away... I would say

:11:13. > :11:16.the Angela Merkel clearly at this point, is the only reason that

:11:17. > :11:20.people are members of the EU, there is little or no point in having a

:11:21. > :11:23.European Union. If the only purpose is this issue around having control

:11:24. > :11:27.of your borders or not having control of your borders, if that's

:11:28. > :11:31.the only issue than what is the point of the European Union? She

:11:32. > :11:34.knows there is a bigger point to the EU, which we don't want to be part

:11:35. > :11:37.of, which is the whole political drive to a closer association in

:11:38. > :11:45.Europe, maybe even call interstate. The point is she knows that. She

:11:46. > :11:51.knows that the real reason. The UK reliance on exports into the EU is

:11:52. > :11:55.three times the EU's reliance on exports into the UK. So when you

:11:56. > :12:00.say, though, they need us just as much as we need them, it is just not

:12:01. > :12:06.true. In the most basic terms. Why would EU spend the past 26 years

:12:07. > :12:10.attempting to get free trade deals with countries that do even less

:12:11. > :12:13.trade with them than we do? Why would they see to get something done

:12:14. > :12:18.with places like South Korea, it is the only one of the major economies,

:12:19. > :12:22.even Canada, and on, this is important, why would you waste your

:12:23. > :12:25.time failing at that, by the way for the most part, where actual fact you

:12:26. > :12:29.have one of your biggest trading partners that is not going to be

:12:30. > :12:33.inside the European Union, but actually you have a really good

:12:34. > :12:37.balance of trade with them right now. A country that complies with

:12:38. > :12:41.every single level of regulation and agreement, that has been inside the

:12:42. > :12:45.organisation for 40 years, which would take very little in a sense to

:12:46. > :12:49.tidy up arrangements around it and you would have a very interesting

:12:50. > :12:52.relationship with which could be done quickly? The answer to that is

:12:53. > :12:57.common sense invariably prevails in these matters. You say we are small

:12:58. > :13:01.apartment that they are to us, but hang on a second. If you are a

:13:02. > :13:08.German car maker or a French farmer or a producer of agriculture... But

:13:09. > :13:12.they won't be making the decisions. Angela Merkel and people like her,

:13:13. > :13:16.27 of them have to be unanimous. Have a look at what's going on in

:13:17. > :13:19.some of these countries. Have you ever seen so much arguing? You sound

:13:20. > :13:24.supremely confident that you know what happening in the rest of

:13:25. > :13:28.Europe, but some would doubt it but your confidence shines through. Let

:13:29. > :13:36.me ask you a very simple... Are you a gambling man? I don't gamble. You

:13:37. > :13:39.are gambling. You have boldly seen the Times newspaper, they have a

:13:40. > :13:44.leaked report that the Treasury presented to Cabinet. The treasury

:13:45. > :13:48.was Mac analysis... The one from April. Yes. They have stuck to it

:13:49. > :13:52.and the Treasury's top officials, who you seem to think aren't worth

:13:53. > :13:56.listening to, say that the likelihood is, as with disgust, that

:13:57. > :14:02.if it comes to pass that two years from March 2017 Britain is there

:14:03. > :14:05.with the trade relationship that is nothing more than the basic WTO

:14:06. > :14:12.model, the treasury says it could cost Britain more than 60 billion

:14:13. > :14:18.pounds a year. You tell me you are not a gambler? The same report that

:14:19. > :14:22.the then Chancellor got them to do, that only looked at the downsides of

:14:23. > :14:23.what could possibly happen. So you are prepared to gamble the

:14:24. > :14:33.Treasury's entire policy? I will tell you who is gambling. The

:14:34. > :14:37.Treasury when they produce a report which doesn't do an upside. Every

:14:38. > :14:41.economic report does a downside and an upside. You have to acknowledge

:14:42. > :14:46.the downside risk is there, that is the gamble. Let's have a look at the

:14:47. > :14:49.upside, the upside of what happens when the UK increases its value of

:14:50. > :14:53.trade around the world. The reason why the Treasury report on 12 April

:14:54. > :14:58.was so discredited, because it was wholly political, it was produced to

:14:59. > :15:03.support remain vote. That was their criticism at the time, it remains.

:15:04. > :15:07.And for them, if this is the case, for them to suddenly does this back

:15:08. > :15:10.off again and produced this as though it was tablets of stone

:15:11. > :15:14.written by God Almighty to tell you exactly how the world will be in a

:15:15. > :15:18.few years' time, I find it really quite visible. My point is this is

:15:19. > :15:22.not a gamble, it is gambling when all you do is load the dice to try

:15:23. > :15:26.and tell everybody how bad things will be. I am trying to the ground

:15:27. > :15:29.he will listen to. You won't listen to Angela Merkel and Francois

:15:30. > :15:32.Hollande, because you say they are politicians. You say that Treasury

:15:33. > :15:36.are stuck in a timewarp, they haven't accepted June 23. So you

:15:37. > :15:40.won't accept either. Will you accept those businesses which are voting

:15:41. > :15:43.with their feet? Russian bank in London which says it is no longer

:15:44. > :15:47.going to expand its London operations, it is going to move to

:15:48. > :15:50.Europe because of what is happening in the UK right now, today. The boss

:15:51. > :15:55.of one of the biggest cart companies in the world, who says that unless

:15:56. > :15:58.he is guaranteed that he will get compensation if indeed we go to WTO

:15:59. > :16:02.trade rules, he is not going to invest any more in the UK. Will you

:16:03. > :16:06.listen to all of the business leaders who say that, in their

:16:07. > :16:11.real-world experience, what is happening right now is going to hurt

:16:12. > :16:15.their businesses? Of course I listen to what business leaders say. I

:16:16. > :16:20.listen to all of them too, by the way. Just like JCB today walking out

:16:21. > :16:25.of the CBI, is our biggest export manufacturer in Britain, saying they

:16:26. > :16:28.don't agree at all with the CBI's position on this, they believe that

:16:29. > :16:32.leaving the European Union will be a positive for us. There is a balance

:16:33. > :16:36.of opinion out there. What tends to happen is you only get one side.

:16:37. > :16:40.Business is as divided as anybody else. Of course we want to make sure

:16:41. > :16:43.at the end of the day that research business has the opportunity to

:16:44. > :16:47.prosper and thrive, because that is jobs and that is industry and money.

:16:48. > :16:50.Well, I'm actually more thingy of the overseas businesses and business

:16:51. > :16:54.leaders who need to decide whether to invest in the UK, and are clearly

:16:55. > :16:57.saying right now we can't make that commitment. There is a big leap of

:16:58. > :17:02.faith if you go from somebody saying I need to know where the position is

:17:03. > :17:04.going to be before we can make big considerations about investment,

:17:05. > :17:07.Tsang somehow all of these businesses and everybody -- every

:17:08. > :17:11.thing else is just going to evaporate from the UK. There are a

:17:12. > :17:15.lot of reasons why businesses are in the UK. In the city for example it

:17:16. > :17:18.is hugely to do with the knowledge base that is here, the level of

:17:19. > :17:22.contract law which is much simpler, there is huge ability to be able to

:17:23. > :17:25.pull the interests and expertise that exists is, and of course the

:17:26. > :17:29.language issue. In more than that, as one German financier told me the

:17:30. > :17:34.other day, we like being in London, it is the only global city in Europe

:17:35. > :17:38.and it is a much better place to be. So yes, of course, banks will move,

:17:39. > :17:41.things will happen, they do all the time by the way. But the city of

:17:42. > :17:44.London's real competitor is not Frankfurt or Paris, otherwise by now

:17:45. > :17:47.they would have seriously big financial services businesses. It is

:17:48. > :17:50.actually New York, and it is Singapore, and these other big

:17:51. > :17:53.international centres. So the position for us is, how do you keep

:17:54. > :17:56.costs under regulation is low on these businesses, and on these

:17:57. > :18:00.centres, to allow business to actually invest? That is the key.

:18:01. > :18:04.One of your most powerful messages during the whole Brexit campaign was

:18:05. > :18:06.that he wanted to take back control for Britain, but in particular of

:18:07. > :18:10.course for British Parliamentary sovereignty. It seems deeply ironic

:18:11. > :18:14.that now here we sit having to make sense of Brexit on the one thing you

:18:15. > :18:20.don't want to do is give Parliament a right to express its opinion on

:18:21. > :18:25.what happens next. On the contrary, I do. I absolutely want to. So you

:18:26. > :18:31.disagree? In the paper that we wrote for the Centre for Social Justice,

:18:32. > :18:35.published about two weeks ago, we made it very clear that the best way

:18:36. > :18:40.that you can get this done is by bringing forward a bill to repeal

:18:41. > :18:44.the 1972 European Communities Act. Now, if you bring that forward,

:18:45. > :18:48.everything in that bill is everything that is going to be in

:18:49. > :18:51.Article 50. So that means that as that Bill progresses through its

:18:52. > :18:53.committee stages, it can be amended, you can have the opportunity to

:18:54. > :18:57.decide which could they support, they don't support, that will be

:18:58. > :19:01.debated all the way over the next two years. Well, why can't MPs

:19:02. > :19:05.debate the vote on the trigger of Article 50? They will be voting on

:19:06. > :19:09.all of that. But why can't they specifically... There is a debate

:19:10. > :19:14.tomorrow brought by the opposition, they have opposition votes if they

:19:15. > :19:17.feel very clear about that. Is a guy who was on the same side of the

:19:18. > :19:22.barricades as you, a barrister as well, Stephen Phillips, he thinks it

:19:23. > :19:25.is absolutely outrageous that Theresa May and the government won't

:19:26. > :19:30.give Parliament the right to give its assent to triggering Article 50.

:19:31. > :19:33.Well, because it doesn't have to get the ascent from Parliament directly

:19:34. > :19:38.on this, but Parliament is capable, you may not realise that. But the

:19:39. > :19:42.British people only voted on the broad idea of Brexit, they didn't

:19:43. > :19:46.have any idea what Brexit would look like, and we now have the beginnings

:19:47. > :19:50.of a fleshing out of a government position. Surely the Parliament... I

:19:51. > :19:54.say to Mr Phillips and the rest, the fact is the Parliament is quite

:19:55. > :19:58.capable of having its say on the Article 50 negotiations, again and

:19:59. > :20:03.again and again. I am talking about the triggering of it. The timing, as

:20:04. > :20:07.we have discussed in this interview, is very important. Wednesday, there

:20:08. > :20:10.is a debate, believe it or not, about the triggering of Article 50.

:20:11. > :20:13.That is already in Parliament. And Parliament would express its will.

:20:14. > :20:18.They can have another debate on Thursday. And next week, you guys

:20:19. > :20:22.will get bored of it. Surely not! We also will not get bored with trying

:20:23. > :20:25.to tease out what you mean by taking that control on matters of

:20:26. > :20:29.immigration. You still haven't made it plain what immigration, when you

:20:30. > :20:32.have taken back control, is going to look like. David Cameron used

:20:33. > :20:36.figures, tens of thousands he said, net migration number. That was

:20:37. > :20:40.obviously nonsense. What is going to happen. Stephen, let me just tell

:20:41. > :20:45.you that. Again, in this paper just to make weeks ago, I am not in

:20:46. > :20:48.government, by the way. You are very important voice on the Brexit side.

:20:49. > :20:53.I and some colleagues published a paper saying this is how you leave.

:20:54. > :20:57.One of the papers was called what you do about migration, how do you

:20:58. > :21:02.control it in a way that allows you to get the best out of it not some

:21:03. > :21:05.of the worst aspects. So I brought back a proposal which I hope and

:21:06. > :21:10.believe the government may adopt which is to say that the way to do

:21:11. > :21:14.it is not to have heart borders, but to have a permit and system that

:21:15. > :21:17.what you do is you have work permits that are applied for, that at the

:21:18. > :21:19.upper end, where you have scientists, academics, you know,

:21:20. > :21:21.shortages of really skilled value-added Labour the software

:21:22. > :21:24.engineers, things like that, you have a very light touch. They

:21:25. > :21:27.basically would notice no difference, come and go as they

:21:28. > :21:31.please, pretty much, people come and work here, adding value. At the

:21:32. > :21:35.lower end, as you get down to the low skilled area, which has the most

:21:36. > :21:38.genetic effect on incomes of the poor get the poorest in society,

:21:39. > :21:41.there you have a much tougher and stronger system, getting British

:21:42. > :21:45.businesses to accept that their first port of call for Labour and

:21:46. > :21:48.for skills is in the UK. So this is where Amber Rudd's notions of

:21:49. > :21:52.getting countries, companies who have to list all the foreign workers

:21:53. > :21:57.comes in, is it? That proposal is not in our paper. You think that is

:21:58. > :22:02.the way to go, is it? No, sorry. It is not... No, I'm sorry, it is not

:22:03. > :22:06.in my paper. What I am suggesting is a simple process of work permits so

:22:07. > :22:09.that if people want to bring some in from overseas to work, at this

:22:10. > :22:12.point, Europe or elsewhere, they have to be able to demonstrate first

:22:13. > :22:16.and foremost that they have attempted to actually find that

:22:17. > :22:19.level of skill it here in the UK. I think that is reasonable. This by

:22:20. > :22:24.the way can be done very quickly. When I was at the Department of Work

:22:25. > :22:30.and Pensions we set up a new system. That will tell you all of the people

:22:31. > :22:34.who are still available. It is quite important, this point. What I am

:22:35. > :22:36.saying is you get the best of both worlds. You get control over

:22:37. > :22:40.uncontrolled migration, which has damaged, I think, people 's living

:22:41. > :22:44.standards at the bottom end of the income scale, at the same time you

:22:45. > :22:47.also have the ability to make a very flexible where there is will add

:22:48. > :22:52.value at the high skilled end. That is what we are after, not anti-

:22:53. > :22:56.migration but making sure value-added migration can continue.

:22:57. > :23:00.A final point, you have lots of other interest, social justice and

:23:01. > :23:03.other things, is it not the case that because Brexit is such a

:23:04. > :23:06.massive and complex issue is going to overshadow everything else that

:23:07. > :23:11.Theresa May's government tries to do, including things that you really

:23:12. > :23:15.care about? That is the truth. It is certainly the most enormous decision

:23:16. > :23:20.that will have been taken, certainly in my lifetime. It will suck all of

:23:21. > :23:24.the political oxygen out of the room. Well, if you don't watch it,

:23:25. > :23:28.the answer to that is yes. But I think actually it is wholly feasible

:23:29. > :23:32.to conduct good domestic government while at the same time concluding

:23:33. > :23:36.this. And I am chairman of the Centre for Social Justice, now that

:23:37. > :23:40.I have left the government, and our purpose now is not to talk about

:23:41. > :23:43.Europe to talk about how do you improve the quality of life for the

:23:44. > :23:48.bottom half of the income in society. Well, that will be for

:23:49. > :23:52.another day and indeed it will be connected to what happens to Brexit

:23:53. > :23:54.as well. But we have to ended there. Iain Duncan Smith, thank you. Thank

:23:55. > :23:59.you. Thank you very much.