0:00:04 > 0:00:07Now on BBC News, it's time for HARDtalk.
0:00:07 > 0:00:08Welcome to HARDtalk.
0:00:08 > 0:00:10I'm Sarah Montague.
0:00:10 > 0:00:13Almost everyone agrees there should not be a return to police checks
0:00:13 > 0:00:16and custom posts on the border between Northern Ireland
0:00:16 > 0:00:16and the Republic.
0:00:16 > 0:00:23But how else should the border be managed once the UK has left the EU?
0:00:23 > 0:00:29And particularly, if it leaves the single market?
0:00:29 > 0:00:32My guest on HARDtalk today is Northern Ireland's First Minister,
0:00:32 > 0:00:33Arlene Foster.
0:00:33 > 0:00:35Unlike most people here in Northern Ireland,
0:00:35 > 0:00:37she voted for Brexit.
0:00:37 > 0:00:41So how does she see it working and how would she ensure that it
0:00:41 > 0:01:02doesn't mean a return to the divisions of the past?
0:01:02 > 0:01:05Arlene Foster, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:01:05 > 0:01:06Thank you.
0:01:06 > 0:01:10How do you see the border operating once the UK has left the EU?
0:01:10 > 0:01:13Well, I think since the referendum has happened, there have been many
0:01:13 > 0:01:16discussions, a lot of them talking about the border and about the fact
0:01:16 > 0:01:19that we had a common travel area before our membership
0:01:19 > 0:01:21of the European Union with the Republic of Ireland.
0:01:21 > 0:01:25I'm glad to say that colleagues in the Republic of Ireland,
0:01:25 > 0:01:27the Government at Westminster and ourselves are all at one
0:01:27 > 0:01:31in relation to the common travel area, that we want to see movement
0:01:31 > 0:01:35across the two islands to be as open as we possibly can make it,
0:01:35 > 0:01:37whilst respecting, of course, the result that took place on 23rd
0:01:38 > 0:01:45June.
0:01:45 > 0:01:48That means trying to manage that border in a very
0:01:48 > 0:01:50practical, pragmatic way.
0:01:50 > 0:01:53All these problems, which I notice the Maltese Prime Minister,
0:01:53 > 0:01:56who is about to take on the EU presidency describes as "some
0:01:56 > 0:01:58of the most sensitive issues of the negotiation",
0:01:58 > 0:02:04do you agree with that?
0:02:04 > 0:02:10Well, first of all I welcome the fact that he recognises
0:02:10 > 0:02:13there is a unique situation on the island of Ireland that has
0:02:13 > 0:02:17to be dealt with and I think it is good that the person
0:02:17 > 0:02:21who is going to take over the presidency of the EU has put it
0:02:21 > 0:02:23right at the top of the agenda.
0:02:23 > 0:02:25I think that's good and it is a recognition
0:02:25 > 0:02:28that we have a unique set of circumstances here.
0:02:28 > 0:02:31OK, but they would be easier if we stayed a member
0:02:31 > 0:02:32of the single market.
0:02:32 > 0:02:34Is that what would you like to see?
0:02:34 > 0:02:37Well, of course, we have said that we want -
0:02:37 > 0:02:40this is reflected in our letter to the Prime Minister,
0:02:40 > 0:02:43which myself and the Deputy First Minister here in Northern Ireland,
0:02:43 > 0:02:45sent back in August, that we wanted the maximum amount
0:02:45 > 0:02:47of access to the single market.
0:02:47 > 0:02:47We do.
0:02:47 > 0:02:52Does that mean having full access to the single market.
0:02:52 > 0:02:54We know probably better than anybody else about negotiations
0:02:54 > 0:02:55and how negotiations happen.
0:02:55 > 0:02:59So, therefore, we have to enter in a realistic frame of mind that
0:02:59 > 0:03:03yes we would like to see the maximum amount of access to the single
0:03:03 > 0:03:06market but we do realise that the Prime Minister is heading
0:03:06 > 0:03:08into a negotiation and therefore she will have to make compromises
0:03:09 > 0:03:10in and around different areas.
0:03:10 > 0:03:13What we want to ensure is that she has a full understanding
0:03:13 > 0:03:16of what goes on here in Northern Ireland and the impacts
0:03:16 > 0:03:21that each of her decisions will have.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25But that letter, you will know well, an SDLP Assembly Member said
0:03:25 > 0:03:28the letter is like a pro-Remain information leaflet because of all
0:03:28 > 0:03:31the things you were asking for in it and yet you campaigned for Brexit.
0:03:31 > 0:03:34So, I wonder, when you were campaigning, did you intend
0:03:34 > 0:03:40that the UK leave the single market?
0:03:40 > 0:03:44What I intended in campaigning, in respect of Brexit,
0:03:44 > 0:03:48was the fact that I believed it was better for the United Kingdom
0:03:48 > 0:03:50to be outside the European Union.
0:03:50 > 0:03:52Why do I say this?
0:03:52 > 0:03:54I say that for a number of different reasons.
0:03:54 > 0:03:56I'm asking a different question...
0:03:56 > 0:03:58But you have to put it in context.
0:03:58 > 0:03:59Part of the single market.
0:03:59 > 0:04:01And that's what I'm particularly interested in.
0:04:01 > 0:04:04Because you will know, that decision, so much flows
0:04:04 > 0:04:06from it, not least what happens to the border.
0:04:06 > 0:04:11Well, interestingly we had a discussion about this very issue
0:04:11 > 0:04:13at the British-Irish Council very recently.
0:04:13 > 0:04:15Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and indeed the crown dependencies
0:04:15 > 0:04:19of Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man and we all came together
0:04:19 > 0:04:22to say and we agreed that we wanted the maximum access
0:04:22 > 0:04:25to the single market.
0:04:25 > 0:04:27Why do I keep talking about maximum access?
0:04:27 > 0:04:30Because I know the Prime Minister will have some very difficult
0:04:30 > 0:04:33decisions to take and we certainly want to support her in making those
0:04:33 > 0:04:36decisions but we also want her to recognise the history
0:04:36 > 0:04:39and geography of Northern Ireland and how we are different
0:04:39 > 0:04:42from Scotland, Wales and England and all of this and we need those
0:04:43 > 0:04:44circumstances taken into account.
0:04:44 > 0:04:46Because you are wanting special status?
0:04:46 > 0:04:48No, we are not wanting special status.
0:04:48 > 0:04:52I think we are wanting our history and geography recognised not just
0:04:52 > 0:04:56by the United Kingdom Government, not just by Dublin, which I think
0:04:56 > 0:04:59they both do, but also for the European Union as well,
0:04:59 > 0:05:05and for them to understand what is going on.
0:05:05 > 0:05:08I think that the Maltese Prime Minister has already recognised
0:05:08 > 0:05:08that.
0:05:08 > 0:05:10But it is such a strange thing.
0:05:10 > 0:05:13Perhaps your position would be more understandable if you had
0:05:13 > 0:05:14voted for Remain.
0:05:14 > 0:05:15But you didn't.
0:05:15 > 0:05:17Unlike the majority of people in Northern Ireland,
0:05:17 > 0:05:19you voted for Brexit, yet here you are saying -
0:05:19 > 0:05:23oh, special status, we want to be closer to the EU...
0:05:23 > 0:05:24I'm not saying special status.
0:05:24 > 0:05:28...than the UK is likely to end up.
0:05:28 > 0:05:30I'm not saying special status at all.
0:05:30 > 0:05:32All I'm saying is we voted as a nation...
0:05:32 > 0:05:34You used the word "unique" three times.
0:05:34 > 0:05:37There is a difference between uniqueness and special status.
0:05:37 > 0:05:40I think language is very important in all of this dialogue.
0:05:40 > 0:05:43I think the European Union recognises that we have a unique
0:05:43 > 0:05:44set of circumstances.
0:05:44 > 0:05:46We are the only part of the United Kingdom
0:05:46 > 0:05:48with a land border.
0:05:48 > 0:05:52Put that on top of the fact that we have a very distinct history
0:05:52 > 0:05:54here in terms of relationships between Northern Ireland
0:05:54 > 0:05:58and the Republic of Ireland and actually we have a very strong
0:05:58 > 0:06:00set of relationships between ourselves and the Dublin Government
0:06:00 > 0:06:03at the moment.
0:06:03 > 0:06:07However it plays out, do you accept that it is the end
0:06:07 > 0:06:12of a fully open border between the North and the Republic?
0:06:12 > 0:06:15I think there are ways to deal with that.
0:06:15 > 0:06:18There are many people who come to the island of Ireland
0:06:18 > 0:06:20at the minute and move between Northern Ireland
0:06:20 > 0:06:23and the Republic of Ireland and that's the way we want
0:06:23 > 0:06:24it to continue.
0:06:24 > 0:06:26But there are ways to deal with that.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28And, of course, it is around access to services.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31So people can visit the island through the common travel area,
0:06:31 > 0:06:35but they won't have the same access to service that is they have
0:06:35 > 0:06:36at the moment.
0:06:36 > 0:06:39OK, but you will know what is critical is what happens
0:06:39 > 0:06:40on that border.
0:06:40 > 0:06:43For example, is it inevitable that there will have to be customs
0:06:43 > 0:06:44posts and border checks?
0:06:44 > 0:06:47Not in the traditional sense I don't think it is inevitable.
0:06:47 > 0:06:51I think there are ways to deal with that through using our
0:06:51 > 0:06:53technology, using data, making sure we have our systems
0:06:53 > 0:06:55in place that we can share information between
0:06:55 > 0:06:57the United Kingdom and Ireland and the fact...
0:06:57 > 0:07:00How?
0:07:00 > 0:07:02How?
0:07:02 > 0:07:04Because you mentioned this before, a technological border.
0:07:04 > 0:07:08I know I did and I think this is something that is gaining currency.
0:07:08 > 0:07:11Even before the vote on 23rd June, negotiations and discussions
0:07:11 > 0:07:13were ongoing between the United Kingdom Government
0:07:13 > 0:07:16and the Government in the Republic of Ireland about the common travel
0:07:16 > 0:07:26area and how it could be secure outside of Schengen.
0:07:26 > 0:07:29Those discussions are continuing and I think there is a very good way
0:07:29 > 0:07:32we can deal with the border, make it a technological border
0:07:32 > 0:07:34and make it that we have all the information...
0:07:34 > 0:07:35What does that mean?
0:07:35 > 0:07:38You will know if somebody travels, perhaps they fly into Dublin
0:07:38 > 0:07:41and they need a job and they head North...
0:07:41 > 0:07:45Who's?
0:07:45 > 0:07:48Well, they won't be able to head North and get a job
0:07:48 > 0:07:50unless they are part of the controlled immigration agreed
0:07:50 > 0:07:54between the United Kingdom Government.
0:07:54 > 0:07:57It will be the paper work that will stop that.
0:07:57 > 0:08:00Yes, it will be the paper work that will stop that.
0:08:00 > 0:08:03The Prime Minister will agree what our migration levels will be
0:08:03 > 0:08:05in relation to what we need.
0:08:05 > 0:08:06Someone is running a small business.
0:08:06 > 0:08:09Strictly speaking they should face tariffs as they head south
0:08:09 > 0:08:10across the border.
0:08:10 > 0:08:14Is there nothing to stop them from heading south and into the EU,
0:08:14 > 0:08:20from moving goods, selling them?
0:08:20 > 0:08:24Again if they are doing it legally, they will have to provide the paper
0:08:24 > 0:08:27work at the end point in relation to how they are selling
0:08:27 > 0:08:29their product into the European Union.
0:08:29 > 0:08:32So there will be a way to deal with that as well.
0:08:32 > 0:08:35The whole point is that we are using innovation and methods
0:08:35 > 0:08:37that we didn't have when the so-called borders
0:08:37 > 0:08:39of the past were in place.
0:08:39 > 0:08:42For many people who live along the border in Northern Ireland,
0:08:42 > 0:08:44they never felt that there was a real border there
0:08:44 > 0:08:47because those of us who lived through the terrorist campaign
0:08:47 > 0:08:50of the '70s, '80s and '90s, the border was pretty
0:08:50 > 0:08:51porous even then.
0:08:51 > 0:08:53So this whole conversation about a return to the borders
0:08:53 > 0:08:57of the past, is a little bit difficult for those of us who lived
0:08:57 > 0:08:59on the border to take into account.
0:08:59 > 0:09:03But what there was at that time, is that there were police checks
0:09:03 > 0:09:03and a border...
0:09:03 > 0:09:05For very different reasons.
0:09:05 > 0:09:07Indeed and that's what people are nervous about.
0:09:07 > 0:09:09Why would we have police checks and military borders
0:09:09 > 0:09:11there when we don't have the terrorist threat
0:09:11 > 0:09:14that we had in the '70s, '80s and '90s?
0:09:14 > 0:09:17When you talk about a technological border, are you talking about,
0:09:17 > 0:09:20for example, a gantry with cameras, so that lorries will be picked up?
0:09:20 > 0:09:30Their number plates read?
0:09:30 > 0:09:33I'm reflecting on the fact that there are many land borders
0:09:33 > 0:09:36across Europe at the moment and there are many ways
0:09:36 > 0:09:39in which they deal with the trade between the different areas
0:09:39 > 0:09:41and so they do deal in technological borders.
0:09:41 > 0:09:44And they do deal in paperwork that's settled long before it gets
0:09:44 > 0:09:45to the border.
0:09:45 > 0:09:47But they also deal in customs checks...
0:09:47 > 0:09:48Those are sporadic.
0:09:48 > 0:09:51But between Norway and Sweden they have customs checks and lorries
0:09:51 > 0:09:52are meant to stop.
0:09:52 > 0:09:54Is that what would happen, lorries passing the border
0:09:55 > 0:09:56would have to stop?
0:09:56 > 0:09:59No, we don't envisage lorries will be stopping on a day and daily
0:09:59 > 0:10:03basis but there will have to be some checks of some nature that takes
0:10:03 > 0:10:04place on a sporadic basis.
0:10:04 > 0:10:08For many it is difficult to see and you have a job explaining how
0:10:08 > 0:10:09it is even workable?
0:10:09 > 0:10:12Well, because it will be settled between the United Kingdom
0:10:12 > 0:10:19Government, the Republic of Ireland's Government and Europe.
0:10:19 > 0:10:24But what I think is very important is that we are at one in what I call
0:10:24 > 0:10:26the triangular relationship between Belfast, Dublin and London
0:10:26 > 0:10:29in terms of the common travel area, that people do not want
0:10:29 > 0:10:30to see barriers raised.
0:10:30 > 0:10:32The Northern Ireland Secretary, James Brokenshire has talked
0:10:32 > 0:10:37about effectively moving the border of the UK to align with the border
0:10:37 > 0:10:43of the Republic of Ireland.
0:10:43 > 0:10:45And effectively having control by Irish border control.
0:10:45 > 0:10:48Is that something that you see as a possible way forward,
0:10:48 > 0:10:51to protect the common travel area?
0:10:51 > 0:10:54Well, I think, as I said, they were speaking about this long
0:10:54 > 0:10:56before the European Union exit vote was taken.
0:10:56 > 0:10:59How do we protect ourselves as two islands against terrorism?
0:10:59 > 0:11:02How do we protect ourselves in other ways, and the way they were talking
0:11:02 > 0:11:05about was using the common travel area and having that special
0:11:05 > 0:11:07relationship between the United Kingdom and Republic
0:11:07 > 0:11:11of Ireland recognised by them working very closely together.
0:11:11 > 0:11:18So that is the way forward as far as you are concerned?
0:11:18 > 0:11:22And of course this would have to be accepted by the other Member States
0:11:22 > 0:11:25in Europe and this is the trick, as it were.
0:11:25 > 0:11:28Because, of course we can't enter into negotiations around any of this
0:11:28 > 0:11:30until Article 50 is triggered and the Republic's Government
0:11:30 > 0:11:33are very keen to point out they are not in negotiations
0:11:33 > 0:11:37at the moment, they are just in discussions.
0:11:37 > 0:11:39This idea of moving the border.
0:11:39 > 0:11:42Why should any of the other 26 Member States accept that idea?
0:11:42 > 0:11:45Afterall, it is not something that's open to those in the South
0:11:45 > 0:11:53of the EU, who have their own battles with migration.
0:11:53 > 0:11:57You know, there is a lot of talk about how the UK is going to do
0:11:57 > 0:12:00business in Europe but of course the reverse is true as well.
0:12:00 > 0:12:02Because, for the Republic of Ireland, Great Britain,
0:12:02 > 0:12:07in particular, is their key market.
0:12:07 > 0:12:10So they need to be able to protect that as well.
0:12:10 > 0:12:13And there has a little bit of that reflected in the conversation
0:12:13 > 0:12:16going on between the Polish Prime Minister and our own Prime Minister.
0:12:16 > 0:12:18I noticed that over this past few days.
0:12:18 > 0:12:21OK but the Poles are arguably very easy to win over,
0:12:21 > 0:12:29compared with some of the other Member States within the EU.
0:12:29 > 0:12:32Well, you know you are talking to someone who has been engaged
0:12:32 > 0:12:35in negotiation and who has been engaged in the political process
0:12:35 > 0:12:37probably all of my political life.
0:12:37 > 0:12:40So people will be hard at the start of a negotiation,
0:12:40 > 0:12:43we all understand that, but, you know, real politic will come
0:12:43 > 0:12:46into position and people will have to be pragmatic and look
0:12:46 > 0:12:50at the future for everybody.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53And this idea of moving the border so that effectively Ireland
0:12:53 > 0:12:56is controlling the UK border, for those who said Brexit
0:12:56 > 0:12:58is all about taking back control of our borders,
0:12:58 > 0:13:01it completely flies in the face of that, doesn't it,
0:13:01 > 0:13:03another country would be controlling the border?
0:13:03 > 0:13:06No because you would only do it in the terms we are talking about,
0:13:06 > 0:13:09if we had full disclosure and openness between the two
0:13:09 > 0:13:12Sovereign governments, as to how it was going to work.
0:13:12 > 0:13:14I think it is a very interesting concept.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17I think it is a way to deal with the very particular
0:13:17 > 0:13:20circumstances of Northern Ireland, in terms of history and geography
0:13:20 > 0:13:26but of course I do recognise we are heading into a negotiation
0:13:26 > 0:13:28and there will be tweaks and innovation and flexibilities
0:13:28 > 0:13:31that none of us have thought of to date.
0:13:31 > 0:13:33That's what happens in a negotiation process.
0:13:33 > 0:13:36We all start off with the historic backgrounds as to what should happen
0:13:36 > 0:13:38but then once you enter into the negotiation,
0:13:38 > 0:13:41people have to compromise and accommodate each other and then
0:13:41 > 0:13:49we end up with the finished project.
0:13:49 > 0:13:52You have said that Northern Ireland is going to be front and centre
0:13:52 > 0:13:54of the negotiations, but James Brokenshire,
0:13:54 > 0:13:56representing Northern Ireland, is only allowed in the room
0:13:56 > 0:13:58when Northern Ireland is being discussed.
0:13:58 > 0:14:05Is that good enough?
0:14:05 > 0:14:09Well, he is a Cabinet minister but we are of course engaged
0:14:09 > 0:14:12directly with the Prime Minister and we made that very clear right
0:14:12 > 0:14:15from the beginning, that we would have to be engaged
0:14:15 > 0:14:15directly with her.
0:14:15 > 0:14:18We are doing that through the joint ministerial committee both
0:14:18 > 0:14:21at plenary level and European exit level and at European exit level
0:14:21 > 0:14:24and of course I'm speaking to the Prime Minister myself
0:14:24 > 0:14:25directly as well.
0:14:25 > 0:14:26How frequently?
0:14:26 > 0:14:27And with David Davis as well.
0:14:27 > 0:14:30Well, we haven't started the negotiations yet but it will,
0:14:30 > 0:14:32of course, become more frequent, once the negotiations start.
0:14:32 > 0:14:35But you are satisfied with the access and the involvement
0:14:35 > 0:14:36you have been promised.
0:14:36 > 0:14:40I have no reason - any time I want to speak to any
0:14:40 > 0:14:42of the Government ministers I get access, so there
0:14:42 > 0:14:44is no difficulty there.
0:14:44 > 0:14:47You will know there are plenty who are very concerned about what it
0:14:47 > 0:14:49could mean, it as plays out.
0:14:49 > 0:14:52Not least the Irish Prime Minister, Enda Kenny, who talks about common
0:14:52 > 0:14:55membership of the EU being part of the glue that holds
0:14:55 > 0:14:56the transition process together.
0:14:56 > 0:14:59Well, of course the peace that we have here in
0:14:59 > 0:15:02Northern Ireland has been hard won by those of us who live
0:15:02 > 0:15:05here and who have been through many of the different
0:15:05 > 0:15:06political processes.
0:15:06 > 0:15:09And we now have a very stable set of institutions here in
0:15:09 > 0:15:09Northern Ireland.
0:15:09 > 0:15:13And whilst the European Union were not at the heart of that,
0:15:13 > 0:15:16I would certainly not take away from the fact that the Union have
0:15:16 > 0:15:18been supportive in terms of funding, for example.
0:15:18 > 0:15:21We've probably accessed more funding than other parts
0:15:21 > 0:15:23of the United Kingdom and that has been helpful,
0:15:23 > 0:15:26I have to say, that but in terms of the constitutional position,
0:15:26 > 0:15:29it remains the same under the Belfast agreement and indeed
0:15:29 > 0:15:31all of the successor agreements as well.
0:15:31 > 0:15:33Charles Litchfield, analyst with the Eurasia Group,
0:15:33 > 0:15:36the political risk consultancy firm, said, "I would be very worried
0:15:36 > 0:15:38about the fragile balance between the communities
0:15:38 > 0:15:41in the event of Brexit."
0:15:41 > 0:15:44Neil Jarman said, and he specialises in Northern Ireland conflict
0:15:44 > 0:15:49at Queen's University Belfast, says, "It would emphasise the difference
0:15:49 > 0:15:51between Britain and the Republic of Ireland."
0:15:51 > 0:15:53And that's the fear, that you are changing something
0:15:53 > 0:16:00that is such a delicate balance, that has been so hard fought for.
0:16:00 > 0:16:03Well, we have just spent, I don't know how many minutes
0:16:03 > 0:16:06talking about the fact that we have a very strong
0:16:06 > 0:16:08relationship with the Dublin government, that we may enter
0:16:08 > 0:16:10into negotiations around the common travel area.
0:16:10 > 0:16:13I don't think that the relationship between us and the Republic
0:16:13 > 0:16:15of Ireland is going to change.
0:16:15 > 0:16:18I think it has become quite mature, actually, over this past period
0:16:18 > 0:16:21of time when we have had a set of institutions
0:16:21 > 0:16:24here in Northern Ireland and it is about mutual respect.
0:16:24 > 0:16:26We do respect the Sovereign Government of the Republic
0:16:26 > 0:16:29of Ireland an we want them, likewise, to respect the fact that
0:16:29 > 0:16:31under the Belfast agreement and its successor agreements,
0:16:31 > 0:16:35that the people of Northern Ireland will decide in what direction
0:16:35 > 0:16:38we are going in terms of our membership of the United Kingdom
0:16:38 > 0:16:42and actually, if you look at the polls and one is always
0:16:42 > 0:16:45tempted not to look at the polls given this last year we've had,
0:16:45 > 0:16:49but if you look at the polls since the referendum there hasn't
0:16:49 > 0:16:52been any discernible shift in terms of whether people want to remain
0:16:52 > 0:16:56within the United Kingdom or go towards a United Ireland.
0:16:56 > 0:17:01It's back to the point about people and this is true of Scotland
0:17:01 > 0:17:03and true of Northern Ireland, people are trying to say
0:17:03 > 0:17:06that our membership of the European Union poll
0:17:06 > 0:17:11is in some way linked to an independence poll.
0:17:11 > 0:17:13It couldn't be further from the truth.
0:17:13 > 0:17:15You say the people of Northern Ireland will decide.
0:17:15 > 0:17:18Well, the people of Northern Ireland decided they want to be part
0:17:19 > 0:17:19of the EU.
0:17:19 > 0:17:21No, you see this is completely wrong.
0:17:21 > 0:17:25We were asked a very specific question as to whether we wanted
0:17:25 > 0:17:28the United Kingdom to remain within the European Union.
0:17:28 > 0:17:31We weren't asked if we wanted Northern Ireland to remain
0:17:31 > 0:17:35within the European Union and outside of the United Kingdom
0:17:35 > 0:17:38because of course the most important trading block for us
0:17:38 > 0:17:41in Northern Ireland is the UK.
0:17:41 > 0:17:4467% of our goods are sold within the United Kingdom.
0:17:44 > 0:17:50So the fact that there were so many, 56% of Northern Ireland voted
0:17:50 > 0:17:54to Remain, more of your own constituency, it was an even
0:17:54 > 0:17:56wider margin there.
0:17:56 > 0:17:58Well, I live in a Nationalist constituency, of course.
0:17:58 > 0:18:01But you are in this strange situation where -
0:18:01 > 0:18:04and many people said it when that letter came out in August that
0:18:04 > 0:18:07you signed with the Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness -
0:18:07 > 0:18:11where you flagged up all the problems that arose
0:18:11 > 0:18:14as a result of Brexit, problems which you had criticised
0:18:14 > 0:18:17people for raising in advance.
0:18:17 > 0:18:19How do you explain that?
0:18:19 > 0:18:20No, I didn't.
0:18:20 > 0:18:24What I said was - in the longer term and indeed I believe in the medium
0:18:24 > 0:18:27term, as a nation, I think we will wholly benefit
0:18:27 > 0:18:29from being outside of the European Union.
0:18:29 > 0:18:32That doesn't take away from the fact that of course we will have
0:18:32 > 0:18:34short-term challenges in terms of transition to leaving
0:18:34 > 0:18:35the European Union.
0:18:35 > 0:18:39Of course we will have those but I think in the medium to longer
0:18:39 > 0:18:42term we'll benefit greatly from being outside the European Union.
0:18:42 > 0:18:43My fear is...
0:18:43 > 0:18:45But you are concerned that the border must not be
0:18:45 > 0:18:47a catalyst for illegal activity.
0:18:47 > 0:18:48That's correct.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51My experience as a Trade Minister for over seven years,
0:18:51 > 0:18:53pointed me in the direction of leaving the European Union,
0:18:53 > 0:18:56because of the over regulation, because of the lack of innovation,
0:18:56 > 0:18:59the lack of flexibility.
0:18:59 > 0:19:01The state aid rules that were imposed upon us.
0:19:01 > 0:19:05We have just very recently lost our international flight
0:19:05 > 0:19:07because we weren't able to intervene, state aid would not
0:19:07 > 0:19:10allow us to intervene from a European Union...
0:19:10 > 0:19:14You are concerned about the border, we must allow access to unskilled
0:19:14 > 0:19:17and skilled foreign labour there, must not be a loss of funding.
0:19:17 > 0:19:22These are all fundamental things.
0:19:22 > 0:19:25Well, would you blame me for being the First Minister
0:19:25 > 0:19:27of Northern Ireland and not trying to get the maximum
0:19:27 > 0:19:28out of negotiations?
0:19:28 > 0:19:31I'm certainly not going to sell Northern Ireland short in terms
0:19:31 > 0:19:35of what I want for the future I'm going to put out the maximum
0:19:35 > 0:19:36in terms of the negotiation.
0:19:36 > 0:19:40Have you ever had a moment of regret since the vote?
0:19:40 > 0:19:41No, absolutely not.
0:19:41 > 0:19:42Definitely not.
0:19:42 > 0:19:46And that concern that the border could be a catalyst for illegal
0:19:46 > 0:19:49activity, you do recognise it could be seen as a sort of gateway,
0:19:49 > 0:19:52the point at which people could...
0:19:52 > 0:19:55What we are talking about there is in terms of paramilitaries,
0:19:55 > 0:19:57in terms of criminality.
0:19:57 > 0:20:01We want to ensure we have a handle in relation to that matter.
0:20:01 > 0:20:05Can I say we had a briefing from the senior management team
0:20:05 > 0:20:08from the Police Service of Northern Ireland just last week
0:20:08 > 0:20:11and they divulged to us that 43%, a very specific figure I have
0:20:11 > 0:20:14to say, that 43% of organised crime now in Northern Ireland comes
0:20:14 > 0:20:17from a foreign basis.
0:20:17 > 0:20:20It comes because of free movement of people that has been able allow
0:20:20 > 0:20:25those who want to practice their crime to come to Northern Ireland,
0:20:25 > 0:20:27and to move very freely with the Republic of Ireland.
0:20:27 > 0:20:32So we have to get a handle on that and we have to be able
0:20:32 > 0:20:33to deal with that.
0:20:33 > 0:20:35Just finally, I want to ask you about some comments
0:20:35 > 0:20:38about your Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness, who said wasn't
0:20:38 > 0:20:41criticising his partners in Government, you, but he did
0:20:41 > 0:20:44want to have a gentle conversation on how political unionism could do
0:20:44 > 0:20:47more to help are reconciliation.
0:20:47 > 0:20:53I wonder if you understand why he says that?
0:20:53 > 0:20:57We have taken a decision, in Northern Ireland,
0:20:57 > 0:21:02with some very clear rules around respect for the rule of law,
0:21:02 > 0:21:06for the courts, for the democratic process that we are to move forward
0:21:06 > 0:21:11on our own mandate and that's the only way we should move forward.
0:21:11 > 0:21:16But if the Deputy First Minister is going to talk about reconciliation
0:21:16 > 0:21:19and reaching out, then I think he also needs to think about some
0:21:19 > 0:21:21of the actions that he has taken.
0:21:21 > 0:21:26I mean he is talking about a push for a United Ireland.
0:21:26 > 0:21:30He is talking to people from Hamas and then he may wonder why people
0:21:30 > 0:21:33in the unionist community are a little reticent
0:21:33 > 0:21:36about reaching out.
0:21:36 > 0:21:38Well, I think there is a need for self-awareness.
0:21:38 > 0:21:42Can I ask you - because many people may not know that your father
0:21:42 > 0:21:46was targeted by the IRA and the man who was widely assumed to have been
0:21:46 > 0:21:49involved, at his funeral, Martin McGuinness spoke,
0:21:49 > 0:21:51praised him at his funeral.
0:21:51 > 0:21:54We have this remarkable situation, you will remember it,
0:21:54 > 0:21:56I think you were eight at the time.
0:21:56 > 0:22:00I was, yes, that's right and then later when I was going to school,
0:22:00 > 0:22:03because my bus driver was a member of the Ulster Defence Regiment,
0:22:03 > 0:22:06the school bus was blown up when I was on it.
0:22:06 > 0:22:10All of this is in the past, which is why I'm spurred on to make
0:22:10 > 0:22:14Northern Ireland a different place for the future.
0:22:14 > 0:22:17That doesn't mean that we don't remember what happened in the past,
0:22:17 > 0:22:20because there are a great many people who not only live
0:22:20 > 0:22:23with the scars of what happened in the past but actually live
0:22:23 > 0:22:24with it every day.
0:22:24 > 0:22:28How difficult is it for you then, every day, to work with people,
0:22:28 > 0:22:32who were your enemy?
0:22:32 > 0:22:35Well, it is difficult and there is no point in saying
0:22:35 > 0:22:37otherwise and it is challenging, particularly when you see members
0:22:37 > 0:22:41of Sinn Fein meeting a terrorist organisation,
0:22:41 > 0:22:43such as Hamas.
0:22:43 > 0:22:46It does bring, for a lot of people in Northern Ireland,
0:22:46 > 0:22:49including myself, back memories of what happened here in the '70s
0:22:49 > 0:22:53and '80s but I use that energy to make sure we don't go back
0:22:53 > 0:22:57to the past, to make sure we have a better Northern Ireland
0:22:57 > 0:23:00for our children and that we have a very strong,
0:23:00 > 0:23:05solid economy that is outward looking, innovative,
0:23:05 > 0:23:09and part of the United Kingdom that looks out to the world.
0:23:09 > 0:23:13You have admitted that in the past, you used to feel bitter about it.
0:23:13 > 0:23:14Are you ever now?
0:23:14 > 0:23:16No, I'm not now.
0:23:16 > 0:23:19I think obviously as a teenager, when you go through what has
0:23:19 > 0:23:22happened in the past, I think we all go through different
0:23:22 > 0:23:24feelings at that time.
0:23:24 > 0:23:28I mean if someone was coming to murder your father and then blow
0:23:28 > 0:23:31you up on a school bus, of course you would have particular
0:23:31 > 0:23:34views of these people but we have all signed up to very clear
0:23:34 > 0:23:37guidelines in terms of supporting the police service, supporting
0:23:37 > 0:23:42the rule of law and what we must do now is make sure we don't go back
0:23:42 > 0:23:43to the rule of the past.
0:23:43 > 0:23:46And those who are worried about divisions as a result
0:23:46 > 0:23:49of the Brexit process, what do you say to them?
0:23:49 > 0:23:52I say to them that we are very committed to make sure
0:23:52 > 0:23:53that doesn't happen.
0:23:53 > 0:23:55We have been through very difficult times before,
0:23:55 > 0:23:58Northern Ireland, particularly since 2007.
0:23:58 > 0:23:59We have come together.
0:23:59 > 0:24:01We have negotiated our way through it.
0:24:01 > 0:24:05We did that just last year, in fact, when we had a very difficult
0:24:05 > 0:24:09situation and we will do it again because we don't want to go back
0:24:09 > 0:24:10to the past.
0:24:10 > 0:24:13What we want is a future for everyone who lives here.
0:24:13 > 0:24:20Arlene Foster, thank you for coming on HARDtalk.
0:24:20 > 0:24:47Arlene Foster, thank you for coming on HARDtalk.
0:24:47 > 0:24:48It is all change for the weather.
0:24:48 > 0:24:51After a decided chilly weekend temperatures are heading upwards.
0:24:51 > 0:24:54Cold air will be drifting off to the north-east.