0:00:05 > 0:00:08Welcome to a special edition of Hardtalk from Moscow,
0:00:08 > 0:00:11I'm Stephen Sackur.
0:00:11 > 0:00:14For 17 years, one man has dominated the politics
0:00:14 > 0:00:20of the Russian capital, Vladimir Putin.
0:00:20 > 0:00:22Externally, he's projected Russian power from Ukraine to Syria
0:00:22 > 0:00:29and internally, opposition has been repressed, intimidated and silenced.
0:00:29 > 0:00:32But not altogether.
0:00:32 > 0:00:36My guest today is the most prominent leader of Russia's
0:00:36 > 0:00:42anti-Putin opposition, Alexey Navalny.
0:00:42 > 0:00:45Now he has committed to fighting Putin in the 2018 presidential
0:00:45 > 0:00:51election but will his defiance cost him dear?
0:01:06 > 0:01:10Alexey Navalny, welcome to Hardtalk.
0:01:10 > 0:01:13Thank you very much for having me here.
0:01:13 > 0:01:17You have been involved in opposition politics of one form or another
0:01:17 > 0:01:20for almost ten years, maybe more, and it just seems to me
0:01:20 > 0:01:23that right now your position is perhaps more dispiriting,
0:01:23 > 0:01:27more depressing than it's ever been before.
0:01:27 > 0:01:31Would you agree?
0:01:31 > 0:01:32Absolutely not.
0:01:32 > 0:01:37Actually, ironically, I can call Vladimir Putin
0:01:37 > 0:01:44as my godfather in politics.
0:01:44 > 0:01:47Because when he came to power and the way he talks
0:01:47 > 0:01:49and what he's saying, what he's doing, the laws he's
0:01:49 > 0:01:52passing, tells me that Russia is done with a democracy
0:01:52 > 0:01:56and I should do something.
0:01:56 > 0:02:00I should join the opposition movement, but, you know,
0:02:00 > 0:02:05I didn't find myself in a more depressing situation
0:02:05 > 0:02:07than previously.
0:02:07 > 0:02:11For example, in 2008, the biggest rally, the biggest
0:02:11 > 0:02:14meeting I participated in was maybe 100 people, maybe 200
0:02:14 > 0:02:21and meeting with 1000 people was tremendously big.
0:02:21 > 0:02:27But in 2011, 2012 we sought rallies with hundreds
0:02:27 > 0:02:31of thousands of people, so I saw different times and it
0:02:31 > 0:02:38doesn't bother me how many people know come onto the streets.
0:02:38 > 0:02:39I enjoy doing the right thing.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42But in a way you've just made my point for me.
0:02:42 > 0:02:52You had a momentum between 2008 and 2011 -
0:02:52 > 0:02:55You had a momentum between 2008 and 2011-2012, it did appear
0:02:55 > 0:02:59you were building a real popular street movement but look at today.
0:02:59 > 0:03:02Today more than 80% of Russians say they approve of President Putin
0:03:02 > 0:03:05but also the international situation is changing and in particular
0:03:05 > 0:03:09we are about to see a new US president who admires
0:03:09 > 0:03:11Vladimir Putin, who says that Putin is smart,
0:03:11 > 0:03:22who says he believes that he can't trust and wants to work with Putin.
0:03:22 > 0:03:24-- can trust and wants to work with Putin.
0:03:24 > 0:03:26That's your new reality.
0:03:27 > 0:03:29Well, I have to remind you that, for example, in 2008,
0:03:30 > 0:03:32everyone in the world admired Putin and Medvedev,
0:03:32 > 0:03:33much bigger than now.
0:03:33 > 0:03:35Do you remember the so-called reset strategy declared
0:03:35 > 0:03:36by the Obama administration?
0:03:36 > 0:03:39They were just nice friends with Mr Putin,
0:03:39 > 0:03:41they are kissing each other etc, etc.
0:03:41 > 0:03:43Yes, we have momentum...
0:03:43 > 0:03:47Let's be specific, Donald Trump says and this is a tweet from just
0:03:47 > 0:03:50the other day when he says, "We should be ready to
0:03:50 > 0:03:55trust Vladimir Putin."
0:03:55 > 0:03:57What is your feeling?
0:03:57 > 0:04:00Well, it sounds disappointing for me and, you know, it's bothering me.
0:04:00 > 0:04:04I have no idea why Mr Trump is so kind to Mr Putin
0:04:04 > 0:04:07because their views on politics and particular issues,
0:04:07 > 0:04:09they 100% differ.
0:04:10 > 0:04:13From migration to the economy, they are 100% different politicians.
0:04:13 > 0:04:16But they like each other and it's strange,
0:04:16 > 0:04:22but I would say that international relationships between the Kremlin
0:04:22 > 0:04:26and foreign countries, that wasn't the hot issue
0:04:26 > 0:04:27inside of Russia.
0:04:27 > 0:04:30So, well, someone is good for Putin, someone is bad,
0:04:30 > 0:04:31it doesn't matter to me.
0:04:31 > 0:04:38But do you in any sense feel betrayed by an incoming US president
0:04:38 > 0:04:41who says that he regards working closely with Putin as
0:04:41 > 0:04:43being a great asset.
0:04:43 > 0:04:48You know, because in a sense that works against everything
0:04:48 > 0:04:50you are trying to achieve, you are trying to tell
0:04:50 > 0:04:54the Russian people that as long as Putin has power,
0:04:54 > 0:04:57Russia is going to be facing sanctions, Russia
0:04:57 > 0:05:00is going to be isolated, Russia has no international future and yet,
0:05:00 > 0:05:03Trump's message is very different.
0:05:03 > 0:05:07I don't like it and I could say honestly that I'm irritated
0:05:07 > 0:05:10by this, annoyed by this, but I don't feel betrayed.
0:05:10 > 0:05:15I can tell you about moments when I felt betrayed.
0:05:15 > 0:05:22When Putin's oligarch in the top of the British list
0:05:22 > 0:05:26of most wealthy people, when government officials
0:05:26 > 0:05:32from Russia buy apartments costing ?11 million in London,
0:05:32 > 0:05:38when they are freely travelling all over Europe and all over
0:05:38 > 0:05:43the world despite having special regulations,
0:05:43 > 0:05:51so-called bribery act in Britain and you can, without any problems,
0:05:51 > 0:05:53prosecute these people on your own laws, for money
0:05:53 > 0:05:55laundering, for bribery but they feel completely free.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58I feel betrayed.
0:05:58 > 0:06:02But it doesn't have anything to do with Donald Trump, so far.
0:06:02 > 0:06:06Isn't one of your big problem is that Vladimir Putin has very
0:06:06 > 0:06:10successfully wrapped himself in the Russian flag,
0:06:10 > 0:06:14he's used nationalism as a potent political force and he's done it
0:06:14 > 0:06:19in recent years by projecting Russian power beyond your borders.
0:06:19 > 0:06:23Obviously I'm thinking in particular of events in Ukraine but also
0:06:23 > 0:06:30what we see in Syria today.
0:06:30 > 0:06:33Vladimir Putin, to your people in Russia, looks like the strong
0:06:33 > 0:06:40leader revising Russian power that so many Russian people want.
0:06:40 > 0:06:42Vladimir Putin just tried to distract Russian people
0:06:42 > 0:06:50from their real problems like inequality and poverty.
0:06:50 > 0:06:54You have 23 million Russian citizens living below the poverty line
0:06:54 > 0:07:00and he has distracted them from this problem with his imperial delusion
0:07:00 > 0:07:02about making Russia great again and all this stuff.
0:07:02 > 0:07:08You call it an imperial delusion.
0:07:08 > 0:07:17Vladimir Putin would say to you, getting back Crimea,
0:07:17 > 0:07:20which is ours and historically was always ours and means so much
0:07:20 > 0:07:23to the people in this country, that's not a delusion,
0:07:23 > 0:07:26that's something that he has delivered for the Russian people.
0:07:26 > 0:07:29I would say that everyone in Russia would be much happier
0:07:29 > 0:07:32if Vladimir Putin delivered some more wealth to the Russian people,
0:07:32 > 0:07:34not just to his oligarchs because what happened in Russia
0:07:34 > 0:07:41in terms of the economy, I will use the favourite term of Mr Trump,
0:07:41 > 0:07:44it's a disaster what's going on inside of the country.
0:07:44 > 0:07:56Yes, Vladimir Putin has very aggressive behaviour
0:07:56 > 0:07:59towards everyone in this world but it's just because he doesn't
0:07:59 > 0:08:04have an ability to solve problems inside Russia.
0:08:04 > 0:08:07Are you telling me that your message to the Russian people is that
0:08:07 > 0:08:12if you, Alexey Navalny, were in power in the Kremlin, you
0:08:12 > 0:08:14would hand Crimea back to Ukraine?
0:08:14 > 0:08:15Is that what you would do?
0:08:15 > 0:08:20I don't think that there are simple decisions on this issue
0:08:20 > 0:08:23but I would say that first of all I would start
0:08:23 > 0:08:26a new and honest referendum in Crimea and hear the voice
0:08:26 > 0:08:29of the Crimean people in an honest referendum.
0:08:30 > 0:08:32With all due respect, international law is quite clear.
0:08:32 > 0:08:39Crimea belongs to Ukraine and was annexed illegally,
0:08:39 > 0:08:42so if you are to reset Russia to create a new dynamic
0:08:42 > 0:08:45between Russia and the outside world, you would have to hand
0:08:45 > 0:08:46Crimea back.
0:08:46 > 0:08:48Are you prepared to do that and tell the Russian
0:08:48 > 0:08:54people you would do that?
0:08:54 > 0:08:58I would admit honestly that it was an illegal
0:08:58 > 0:09:00annexation, yes it's true.
0:09:00 > 0:09:03But there is no simple decision like moving Crimea
0:09:03 > 0:09:04back and forth, right?
0:09:04 > 0:09:08And I would say that this is a problem that won't have any
0:09:08 > 0:09:10decision for a couple of decades, maybe longer.
0:09:10 > 0:09:15It would be something like Northern Cyprus or territory
0:09:15 > 0:09:17we're sharing with Japan for decades, or
0:09:17 > 0:09:19Palestinian territories.
0:09:19 > 0:09:23All conflicts like this, they don't have a simple solution.
0:09:23 > 0:09:26Maybe they don't have a solution at all but what we should really
0:09:26 > 0:09:30consider in this situation is the opinion of
0:09:30 > 0:09:32the people in Crimea.
0:09:32 > 0:09:34Actually, we have no idea what they think
0:09:34 > 0:09:36because the referendum, which was done by Vladimir
0:09:36 > 0:09:39Putin, was just a fake.
0:09:39 > 0:09:42We need a new referendum and it should be the start
0:09:42 > 0:09:43of what we're doing later.
0:09:43 > 0:09:46So the context here again comes back to Donald Trump,
0:09:46 > 0:09:48because whether it be on the Ukraine-Crimea issue
0:09:48 > 0:09:51of whether it's on Syria, Donald Trump has indicated
0:09:51 > 0:09:55that he can foresee the easing of sanctions, maybe even the removal
0:09:55 > 0:10:00of US sanctions on Russia if Putin will work with him on what Trump
0:10:00 > 0:10:06regards as the big priority, which is the fight against jihadist
0:10:06 > 0:10:08terror, the so-called Islamic State movement.
0:10:08 > 0:10:11How would you feel if the United States eased
0:10:11 > 0:10:20sanctions against Russia?
0:10:20 > 0:10:21I cannot support the sanctions which applied
0:10:21 > 0:10:26to the Russian economy in general since I've been a Russian citizen.
0:10:26 > 0:10:30But I will definitely be very unhappy with Mr Trump if he eases
0:10:30 > 0:10:37and cancels the sanctions which apply to particular
0:10:37 > 0:10:39personalities, like friends of Vladimir Putin, or Putin's
0:10:39 > 0:10:46oligarchs or corrupt officials who were in his closest circle
0:10:46 > 0:10:49because actually these sanctions are very nice for the Russian
0:10:49 > 0:10:55people and it's supported by the Russian people.
0:10:55 > 0:10:58But, to put it bluntly, do you think Donald Trump cares
0:10:58 > 0:11:02about issues inside Russia, human rights, freedom, democracy?
0:11:02 > 0:11:04Absolutely not.
0:11:04 > 0:11:07I would say that the previous administration and the
0:11:07 > 0:11:13administration before Obama didn't care about this as well.
0:11:13 > 0:11:17Some of them said something but in general they just don't care
0:11:17 > 0:11:20and I don't have any delusion about this.
0:11:20 > 0:11:25You have, from the very beginning of your political activity,
0:11:25 > 0:11:27focused on corruption.
0:11:27 > 0:11:32You talked from the very beginning about Putin's regime being a regime
0:11:32 > 0:11:33of crooks and thieves.
0:11:33 > 0:11:40Has it changed in any way during the decade
0:11:40 > 0:11:42that you've been working on anti-corruption activities?
0:11:42 > 0:11:45Yes, it's changed, it's become bigger.
0:11:46 > 0:11:49Now, Putin's friends, his very close circle
0:11:49 > 0:11:51of friends, they just replaced the Russian economy itself.
0:11:51 > 0:11:5690% of the government procurement is his friends and he has literally
0:11:56 > 0:12:02maybe five people who just grab all of the Russian economy,
0:12:02 > 0:12:06all government procurements, all government contracts.
0:12:06 > 0:12:11All roads, all bridges, all tunnels are constructed
0:12:11 > 0:12:16in Russia by Mr Rotenberg, and Mr Timchenko, who was
0:12:16 > 0:12:18the closest associate of Mr Putin.
0:12:18 > 0:12:23They are doing everything, they are supplying equipment for
0:12:23 > 0:12:25Gazprom, supplying pharmacy, supplying medical equipment etc,
0:12:25 > 0:12:25etc.
0:12:25 > 0:12:29So let me get this straight, you're seeing things have gotten worse,
0:12:29 > 0:12:32the corruption is more rampant, the cronyism is terrible and yet
0:12:32 > 0:12:33Putin's approval rating is at 86%.
0:12:33 > 0:12:38It suggests to me that the Russian people don't care.
0:12:38 > 0:12:42Well, this is a major mistake that people make
0:12:42 > 0:12:44when they discuss Putin's regime.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48They are always referring to this approval rating and it's
0:12:48 > 0:12:52a mistake to compare Russia, which is an authoritarian country
0:12:52 > 0:12:55right now, to undevelop democracy like we have
0:12:55 > 0:13:00in Eastern Europe, for example.
0:13:00 > 0:13:07We should compare Russia to the countries like Uzbekistan
0:13:07 > 0:13:10and Tajikistan or Zimbabwe, all of these countries.
0:13:10 > 0:13:13The leaders have a rating of 95% and with authoritarian regimes
0:13:13 > 0:13:17they have a maximum rating of approval until the very
0:13:17 > 0:13:20end of their life.
0:13:20 > 0:13:24But I want to ask you, tell me please, what was the support
0:13:24 > 0:13:30of the Soviet Communist Party in our country in 1985?
0:13:30 > 0:13:38100%.
0:13:38 > 0:13:42What was the approval of the Russian Tsar in 1916?
0:13:42 > 0:13:44More than 100%.
0:13:44 > 0:13:51It means nothing actually.
0:13:51 > 0:13:57Even in 2011, the rating of Putin was about 70% but out of the blue
0:13:57 > 0:14:00hundreds of thousands of people came to the streets asking
0:14:00 > 0:14:02Mr Putin to go away.
0:14:02 > 0:14:04Right, but hundreds of thousands are not coming
0:14:04 > 0:14:06onto the streets today.
0:14:06 > 0:14:10You had your moment when you ran for the Moscow mayoralty in 2013.
0:14:10 > 0:14:13I think you ended up getting 27% of the vote.
0:14:13 > 0:14:16That, in a sense, was the high water mark for you.
0:14:16 > 0:14:18Things have not been so good since and now, frankly,
0:14:18 > 0:14:21you are in deep trouble.
0:14:21 > 0:14:25When you leave this interview with me you have to go to Kirov
0:14:25 > 0:14:28to face yet another court case where you're accused of embezzlement,
0:14:28 > 0:14:32and if you lose the case you are going to face a new sentence
0:14:32 > 0:14:39which could involve...
0:14:39 > 0:14:42But I had the same in 2012, before my mayoral election.
0:14:42 > 0:14:45I had the same before thd rally in Moscow's streets and,
0:14:45 > 0:14:50I guess, from 2010 I've never had a day in my life when I wasn't under
0:14:50 > 0:14:52criminal prosecution because that's how they fight me.
0:14:52 > 0:14:55That's true.
0:14:55 > 0:14:57You've had convictions, you've had house arrest,
0:14:57 > 0:14:59you may well end up in prison again.
0:14:59 > 0:15:02Your brother is currently in prison in solitary confinement.
0:15:02 > 0:15:06You know that you're treading a very fine line and if you go one inch too
0:15:06 > 0:15:13far, you'll end up in prison or, who knows.
0:15:13 > 0:15:19I definitely don't draw this line for myself.
0:15:19 > 0:15:23I just do what I can do in this particular moment and I don't care
0:15:23 > 0:15:26about what the Kremlin is doing, what their strategy is about keeping
0:15:26 > 0:15:29me in prison or releasing me.
0:15:29 > 0:15:34Maybe you know that I had actually a moment when they imprisoned me
0:15:34 > 0:15:38for five years and I spent a night in the prison knowing nothing
0:15:38 > 0:15:41about what was going on in Moscow when tens of thousands of people
0:15:41 > 0:15:45came to the streets and they forced Vladimir Putin to release me.
0:15:45 > 0:15:48The people who came to the street, they're not gone.
0:15:48 > 0:15:54There are still living in the city, still living in the country and I'm
0:15:54 > 0:15:58absolutely 100% sure that my programme for this
0:15:58 > 0:16:00presidential election is the programme based on the needs
0:16:00 > 0:16:05of the majority of people.
0:16:05 > 0:16:06Let me stop you there.
0:16:06 > 0:16:10Are you absolutely determined, you talk about your run
0:16:10 > 0:16:16for the presidency, you're determined, come what may,
0:16:16 > 0:16:19to challenge for the in the election, which we believe
0:16:19 > 0:16:20will come in 2018.
0:16:20 > 0:16:23You are going to run, are you?
0:16:23 > 0:16:27I'm going to run but I'm not a naive person.
0:16:27 > 0:16:30I understand that the Kremlin is very unhappy with me running
0:16:30 > 0:16:32and I understand that they will do everything to prevent
0:16:32 > 0:16:35me from running.
0:16:35 > 0:16:37Recently, several Kremlin officials said that I'm not allowed
0:16:37 > 0:16:40to participate, but still, I'm going to appeal to the people
0:16:40 > 0:16:43and ask for their support.
0:16:43 > 0:16:46I mean, in this office where we speak, you've already
0:16:46 > 0:16:49got your logos organised, Navalny 2018, but I put it
0:16:49 > 0:16:53to you that if you lose this court case in Kirov based on accusations
0:16:53 > 0:16:56of embezzlement and fraud, you will be barred from running
0:16:56 > 0:16:58and whatever you tell me about your determination...
0:16:58 > 0:17:01It actually does nothing in the current country.
0:17:01 > 0:17:05As I said, they imprisoned me for five years and they released me
0:17:05 > 0:17:05the next day.
0:17:05 > 0:17:07What kind of law?
0:17:07 > 0:17:10The same with my participation in the mayoral election.
0:17:10 > 0:17:13It was almost impossible to participate, but when people came
0:17:13 > 0:17:16to the streets and said we're not going to recognise this election
0:17:16 > 0:17:24without him participating.
0:17:24 > 0:17:28So you think you can use people power against Putin?
0:17:28 > 0:17:31Absolutely.
0:17:31 > 0:17:37Actually, it's the only tool I can use.
0:17:37 > 0:17:38It's all I have.
0:17:38 > 0:17:41Mr Navalny, I'm tempted to say to you, get real.
0:17:41 > 0:17:43You know what happened to Khodorkovsky, you know
0:17:43 > 0:17:45what happened to Kasparov, who is now in exile,
0:17:45 > 0:17:49you know what happened to Boris Nemtsov.
0:17:49 > 0:17:51Are you telling me to get real?
0:17:51 > 0:17:54I am real, I can assure you that I'm real.
0:17:54 > 0:17:57I have my brother spending time in jail, taken away from his family,
0:17:57 > 0:17:59and as you mentioned he's in solitary confinement.
0:17:59 > 0:18:02They are really torturing him every time I issued new investigations,
0:18:02 > 0:18:06so I'm a guy from real life here in Russia.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09I understand everything and I do believe that people's support can
0:18:09 > 0:18:18prevail against whatever strategy Putin has against me.
0:18:18 > 0:18:21Boris Nemtsov, whom you knew very well, was walking down a street just
0:18:21 > 0:18:23a couple of hundred metres from the Kremlin
0:18:23 > 0:18:25when he was murdered.
0:18:25 > 0:18:26That is the reality of Moscow today.
0:18:26 > 0:18:30You are not immune from that.
0:18:30 > 0:18:34I had a meeting with him and volunteers who were preparing
0:18:34 > 0:18:37the big rally.
0:18:37 > 0:18:48After this meeting with the volunteers,
0:18:48 > 0:18:51we went on the street and I was arrested for 15 days
0:18:51 > 0:18:53and he was killed a week later.
0:18:53 > 0:18:56So I understand what's going on in Russia and I understand
0:18:56 > 0:18:59there are a lot of risks and I understand the danger,
0:18:59 > 0:19:00but this is my country.
0:19:00 > 0:19:05I'm going to fight for my country and I know that I'm right and I know
0:19:05 > 0:19:07that the development of the country is much better
0:19:07 > 0:19:08than capturing new territories.
0:19:08 > 0:19:10Look at the map, we're quite a bit country,
0:19:11 > 0:19:14we don't need new territories and I'm sure that I will explain
0:19:14 > 0:19:16to the Russian people that my alternative is better
0:19:16 > 0:19:19than Vladimir Putin.
0:19:19 > 0:19:21Let me just ask you one, perhaps, strange question.
0:19:21 > 0:19:25Why do you think you are free to walk the streets of Moscow today?
0:19:25 > 0:19:28So many other opposition people are not but you are.
0:19:28 > 0:19:31Could it be that you are useful to Vladimir Putin because he can
0:19:31 > 0:19:34always say, look we are a democracy because Alexey Navalny is allowed
0:19:34 > 0:19:37to do his thing, he's allowed to talk to the BBC,
0:19:37 > 0:19:40he's allowed to run anti-corruption office, that proves what a free
0:19:40 > 0:19:42and democratic place we are?
0:19:42 > 0:19:45You could be a useful tool to Vladimir Putin.
0:19:45 > 0:19:46I don't know.
0:19:46 > 0:19:49Yes, I'm allowed to talk to the BBC, but unfortunately I'm not allowed
0:19:49 > 0:19:53to talk to the Russian TV stations.
0:19:53 > 0:19:55You had an interview with Mr Peskov and you asked him
0:19:55 > 0:19:57about me several times.
0:19:57 > 0:19:58Did he ever mention my name?
0:19:58 > 0:20:01The same as Putin.
0:20:01 > 0:20:03Even pro-Kremlin journalists are laughing about the situation
0:20:03 > 0:20:06because for all these years he never mentioned my name.
0:20:06 > 0:20:13He's afraid of...
0:20:13 > 0:20:16Not about me, but he's afraid of the people I represent.
0:20:16 > 0:20:19You talk about Dmitry Peskov, who I'm going to see again in just
0:20:19 > 0:20:23a couple of days' time.
0:20:24 > 0:20:27He seems supremely confident that Vladimir Putin has a grip on this
0:20:27 > 0:20:28country that will not be relinquished.
0:20:28 > 0:20:36What would you say to Peskov that might undermine his confidence?
0:20:36 > 0:20:40Well, I guess, a lot of Russian people have a major question to ask
0:20:40 > 0:20:44Mr Peskov, and the question is, why are you lying all the time?
0:20:44 > 0:20:49For decades he's never said a single word of truth.
0:20:49 > 0:20:53He's lying all the time.
0:20:53 > 0:20:58How does he manage to deal with himself?
0:20:58 > 0:21:10Getting up in the morning and looking at himself in the mirror
0:21:10 > 0:21:15and saying to himself, today, again, I will live as a lying human being.
0:21:15 > 0:21:17The problem is, as you've said in this interview,
0:21:17 > 0:21:19you don't get access to Russian state TV,
0:21:19 > 0:21:23you do not get the sort of media coverage.
0:21:23 > 0:21:27You can't win.
0:21:27 > 0:21:30That's the problem, you just cannot win in the system that
0:21:30 > 0:21:34Russia has today.
0:21:34 > 0:21:36I can and I will.
0:21:36 > 0:21:37So how do you do it?
0:21:38 > 0:21:40How do you mobilise these people you claim are out there,
0:21:40 > 0:21:44all of the anti-Putin feeling that you say is in Russia today,
0:21:44 > 0:21:47how do you mobilise it and turn it into a political campaign?
0:21:47 > 0:21:51Well, we started our campaign just a month ago and so far I have 20,000
0:21:51 > 0:21:53volunteers registered in my campaign, the biggest amount
0:21:53 > 0:21:56of volunteers we ever had in the history of modern Russia.
0:21:56 > 0:21:59Yes, you're absolutely right, I don't have access to TV.
0:21:59 > 0:22:02I never had access because Vladimir Putin took over the last independent
0:22:02 > 0:22:06TV station in 2001, so I never had coverage from the state media
0:22:06 > 0:22:07but I can operate without them.
0:22:07 > 0:22:10In 2013, in the Moscow mayoral election, without money,
0:22:10 > 0:22:13without access to the media, I got almost 30% and I'm totally
0:22:13 > 0:22:17sure that I would have won in the second round if in the first
0:22:17 > 0:22:19round they didn't have the usual election fraud.
0:22:19 > 0:22:31We talked earlier about your brother who is in prison,
0:22:31 > 0:22:33in solitary confinement.
0:22:33 > 0:22:39It was a court case that involved you and him but,
0:22:39 > 0:22:42ironically, he was sent to prison and you escaped prison.
0:22:42 > 0:22:43He wrote to you recently.
0:22:43 > 0:22:47He said this, he said, "Alexey, you cannot,
0:22:47 > 0:22:51you must not stop and give in to their demands.
0:22:51 > 0:22:56Even if you are considering quitting, it is out
0:22:56 > 0:22:59of the question."
0:22:59 > 0:23:02At what point would you decide that this is not worth it,
0:23:02 > 0:23:04that you've had enough?
0:23:04 > 0:23:08I really hope that there will never be such a moment because it means
0:23:08 > 0:23:10that everything I've done before is useless.
0:23:10 > 0:23:14All these sacrifices from my family, from my brother, by Boris Nemtsov,
0:23:14 > 0:23:17who was killed, who was shot in the back close to the Kremlin.
0:23:17 > 0:23:20A lot of other people too.
0:23:20 > 0:23:26We have political prisoners, hundreds of them all over Russia,
0:23:26 > 0:23:29and if I stop it means all these sacrifices are useless.
0:23:29 > 0:23:29They are not.
0:23:29 > 0:23:38I do believe in what I'm doing and I do believe that my alternative
0:23:38 > 0:23:41is better for Russia and I'm absolutely sure that we will succeed
0:23:41 > 0:23:42and I believe in victory.
0:23:42 > 0:23:45We have a tough time right now with this imperial delusion,
0:23:45 > 0:23:47yes, but political trends are changing.
0:23:47 > 0:23:53People have become poor, people are asking questions
0:23:53 > 0:23:57and I have the support from family and from the people and I'm not
0:23:57 > 0:24:06going to let them down.
0:24:06 > 0:24:10Alexey Navalny, we have to end there but thank
0:24:10 > 0:24:12you for being on Hardtalk.
0:24:12 > 0:24:15Thank you very much.
0:24:44 > 0:24:46There is definitely a pattern emerging with our weather.