Dmitry Peskov

:00:00. > :00:00.Now on BBC News, Stephen Sackur speaks to Dmitry Peskov,

:00:00. > :00:09.the spokesman for Russian president, Vladimir Putin, in HARDTalk.

:00:10. > :00:19.Welcome to a special edition of HARDTalk from Moscow. According to

:00:20. > :00:24.US intelligence chiefs the Kremlin ran a covert operation aimed to

:00:25. > :00:29.influence the US presidential election in favour of Donald Trump.

:00:30. > :00:35.If they did, it worked, but was it really so? What is the truth behind

:00:36. > :00:43.the swirl of allegations and what now for Russia-US relations? Well

:00:44. > :00:46.I'm going to the Kremlin to meet Vladimir Putin's spokesman. Is he

:00:47. > :01:13.triumphant or caution? Dmitry Peskov welcome to HARDTalk.

:01:14. > :01:19.Do you care that a host of Western intelligence agencies have accused

:01:20. > :01:23.your government of sophisticated, covert operations, dirty tricks,

:01:24. > :01:28.meddling in their internal politics, do you care? You mean cyber attacks?

:01:29. > :01:32.Cyber attacks, not just that, but cyber attacks have been one very big

:01:33. > :01:39.part of it. Let's talk about the United States first of all. Yes. We

:01:40. > :01:44.have to be very precise in wording. You're speaking about Secret

:01:45. > :01:49.Services and special services of the major states. We're speaking about

:01:50. > :01:55.only the United States of America and some retired gentlemen who used

:01:56. > :02:01.to work in MI6 or MI5, I don't know exactly, from Great Britain. The

:02:02. > :02:06.rest of special services in European countries, they have never accused

:02:07. > :02:12.Russia of interfering into somewhere they have just started to feel

:02:13. > :02:16.uncomfortable, at the same front of allegations - That's not Strictly

:02:17. > :02:22.True. What you've said isn't strictly true. Bruno Khal, chief of

:02:23. > :02:27.Germany's foreign intelligence agency said this, "Cyber attacks are

:02:28. > :02:31.taking place that have no purpose other than to elicit political

:02:32. > :02:36.uncertainty here in Germany. The indications show the attacks come

:02:37. > :02:49.from Russia. There is evidence that this is at least tolerated or

:02:50. > :02:53.desired by the state. " Again, accusations that have nothing

:02:54. > :02:56.beneath. We don't have any proof for those blamings. It is interesting

:02:57. > :03:02.that you began by saying it's only the United States. But it's clearly

:03:03. > :03:05.not only the United States. Well, the whole story started from the

:03:06. > :03:12.United States. The whole hysteria is being pumped up by the United States

:03:13. > :03:17.public opinion, United States media. It's very emotional hysteria. You

:03:18. > :03:22.know, sometimes it is even, it comes quite ridiculous to us to watch this

:03:23. > :03:26.hysteria. The director of national intelligence in the US says that the

:03:27. > :03:29.evidence is there with a very high degree of certainty. Admittedly we

:03:30. > :03:34.haven't seen the evidence because the key evidence has been redacted.

:03:35. > :03:39.But what he says is this, "I do not think, based on the evidence, that

:03:40. > :03:44.we have ever encountered a more aggressive, a more direct campaign

:03:45. > :03:50.to interfere in our election process. That's at your door,

:03:51. > :03:55.indeed, you Dmitry Peskov, have been accused of being one of the key

:03:56. > :04:02.architects of this campaign. Well it's a great honour for me to be so

:04:03. > :04:05.fist Kated. I'm not that sophisticated in cyber business.

:04:06. > :04:20.This is not the truth. This is number one. Number two, every day we

:04:21. > :04:26.have hundreds and thousands of cyber attacks against our digital systems

:04:27. > :04:33.in the Russian Federation. Some of them are coming from the territory

:04:34. > :04:37.of the United States. Dozens are am coulding from the territory of --

:04:38. > :04:44.are coming from the territory of Germany, dozens coming from Great

:04:45. > :04:50.Britain. Do you think that it means with a high state of certainty that

:04:51. > :04:55.those attacks against our digital systems are being promoted by the

:04:56. > :05:01.governments in Washington, in London or in Berlin? No. You would probably

:05:02. > :05:04.say no. It's out of the question. I'm more interested in what you

:05:05. > :05:10.think. What do you think? We think that it has nothing to do with the

:05:11. > :05:16.governments. Although, we also have some evidence that some foreign

:05:17. > :05:22.special services might stand behind some very, very tense attacks

:05:23. > :05:27.against our banks and against our, well, our official websites. Are you

:05:28. > :05:30.trying to tell me that the Russian actions in the United States, in

:05:31. > :05:36.Germany, we believe in Britain too, according to our intelligence

:05:37. > :05:44.agencies, are they retaliation? No. There are no actions. There are no

:05:45. > :05:49.actions. Neither Russian government nor Kremlin nor President Putin

:05:50. > :05:55.personally, nor military intelligence stand behind those

:05:56. > :06:01.attacks, if they really exist. That is a very clear position you've just

:06:02. > :06:08.taken. Now the United States Congress is going to over the next

:06:09. > :06:10.few weeks and months conduct a very serious investigation of all these

:06:11. > :06:15.allegations of Russian cyber hacking. They are going to use

:06:16. > :06:19.subpoenas. We may find a lot more specific information. If it urns out

:06:20. > :06:25.that they -- if it turns out that they have convincing evidence that

:06:26. > :06:28.Russia, the Kremlin was involved in authorising those attacks, you are

:06:29. > :06:35.going to be very badly exposed, aren't you? Of course. I'm carrying

:06:36. > :06:40.responsibility for saying that. I'm not an irresponsible person and

:06:41. > :06:44.working as a press secretary of President Putin, I work in Kremlin

:06:45. > :06:50.and am responsible for my words. So should there be any evidence, should

:06:51. > :06:54.there be any proof, then it will be my responsibility. It should be

:06:55. > :06:59.either proved or it should be dismissed. How disturbed were you

:07:00. > :07:05.when Donald Trump appeared to say, just a few days ago, that he now

:07:06. > :07:11.believes Russia is responsible for the hacking of the DNC e-mails?

:07:12. > :07:17.President-elect was briefed by his special services. We do not know

:07:18. > :07:25.what exactly was presented to him during those briefings. What we had

:07:26. > :07:31.access to was the public part of the report. You would probably have read

:07:32. > :07:36.that. I've read the public part. As I said, we don't know what redacted

:07:37. > :07:42.parts include. Yes, public part was quite vague. You would probably

:07:43. > :07:47.agree with me. It was based on assumptions, not on evidence. So

:07:48. > :07:54.let's wait and see. On the hacking, John McCain, and a bunch of

:07:55. > :07:58.Republican, democratic senators - Great admirer of my country. Perhaps

:07:59. > :08:04.not the greatest admirer right now. He has said and they have said that

:08:05. > :08:06.they're going to push forward what they're calling countering Russian

:08:07. > :08:11.hostilities act 2017. They are going to push for an expansion of

:08:12. > :08:14.sanctions against Russia specifically targeting those they

:08:15. > :08:19.believe responsible for the hacking. How will you respond if that

:08:20. > :08:26.legislation, if that expansion of sanctions goes through? So, this is

:08:27. > :08:30.quite an unprecedented act. What is being done by the going President

:08:31. > :08:35.Obama, by renewing the sanctions against Russia, without waiting

:08:36. > :08:43.until the period of the existing one expires, and with the new law, with

:08:44. > :08:49.the new law coming. So they are trying to limit the capacity, to

:08:50. > :08:55.limit the presidency of Trump. They're trying to push him into the

:08:56. > :08:59.way of bad relationship with Moscow. They say, you don't have a

:09:00. > :09:05.possibility to move. You don't have a possibility to choose your own

:09:06. > :09:10.position. You will follow our way. Which brings me to the most

:09:11. > :09:13.important question today, around the world, but particularly concerning

:09:14. > :09:20.your relationship with the United States. Do you believe President

:09:21. > :09:23.Donald Trump will bring with him a fundamental change, a fundamental

:09:24. > :09:27.shift in the relationship between Washington and Moscow?

:09:28. > :09:34.Unfortunately, we cannot believe. What we can do is we can express our

:09:35. > :09:40.hope. We want to have good relationship with America. We

:09:41. > :09:45.believe that we cannot solve lots of problems in this world and in our

:09:46. > :09:51.region, that are endangering our country without cooperation with the

:09:52. > :09:54.Americans. That's why we desperately need good relationship with

:09:55. > :09:58.Washington. But it takes two to tango. What will be the approach by

:09:59. > :10:02.President Trump, this is the question. We speak on the eve of the

:10:03. > :10:06.inauguration, will you and your boss, President Putin, be popping

:10:07. > :10:12.the champagne corks, when you watch the inauguration of President Trump?

:10:13. > :10:21.Well, you know, we are preoccupied these days. We have our Christian

:10:22. > :10:24.holiday called baptising, so we are preoccupied with swimming in the ice

:10:25. > :10:31.cold water. That's why our agenda is a little bit different. Let's allow

:10:32. > :10:35.ourselves to think what it means in greater detail. Donald Trump has

:10:36. > :10:39.talked about his admiration for Vladimir Putin, calls him a smart

:10:40. > :10:42.guy. But getting away from the positives, looking at perhaps a more

:10:43. > :10:50.realistic agenda, some of his key nominees for the top posts that of

:10:51. > :10:54.Secretary of State, Secretary of Defence, they have said clearly they

:10:55. > :10:58.still regard Russia as the most important threat, the Defence

:10:59. > :11:04.Secretary nominee says he still believes that Russia poses a severe

:11:05. > :11:11.threat to Europe's security and to Nato. Listen, you cannot leave and

:11:12. > :11:14.you cannot develop yourself as personality in one environment and

:11:15. > :11:20.all of a sudden come to a different conclusion. You are a child of your

:11:21. > :11:25.environment. Environment in the United States currently is very

:11:26. > :11:35.hostile towards Russia. So we understand those statements. We do

:11:36. > :11:38.not expect President Trump and his administration to agree with us,

:11:39. > :11:43.even to agree with us even on the majority of problems. But we want to

:11:44. > :11:52.believe that they will be ready to talk to us. So, we want to be able

:11:53. > :12:00.to convey our message to Washington. We want to, we want Washington to

:12:01. > :12:07.will, to convey their message to us by explaining why, what exactly,

:12:08. > :12:14.how, when and with whom. If we don't know that, we feel ourself

:12:15. > :12:19.endangered. Donald Trump prides himself as a deal maker. He's begun

:12:20. > :12:23.to indicate there might be deals to be done. He suggested to the Times

:12:24. > :12:29.newspaper the other day that perhaps he would consider easing sanctions

:12:30. > :12:37.on Russia if Russia was prepared to talk seriously about reducing its

:12:38. > :12:44.nuclear Arsenal as part of a new round of talks. Are you interested

:12:45. > :12:51.in that sort of approach? It's a little bit different dimensions.

:12:52. > :12:54.Sanctions is one thing. Russia will not ever initiate discussing of the

:12:55. > :12:59.issue. On Ukraine, which is the reason why the sanctions sit there,

:13:00. > :13:02.your position on Ukraine appears unchanging. What the West wants to

:13:03. > :13:08.see, we don't know whether Donald Trump wants to see it, what the West

:13:09. > :13:13.generally wants to see is you, finally, make every effort to

:13:14. > :13:16.implement that Minsk peace agreement and stop your support for the

:13:17. > :13:23.separatists in Eastern Ukraine. The problem is that we are not the

:13:24. > :13:27.country who is going to, who should implement Minsk agreement. We are

:13:28. > :13:32.the country that should guarantee the implementation, together with

:13:33. > :13:34.the French and with the Germans. Minsk agreement should be

:13:35. > :13:47.implemented by Kiev and Minsk agreement should be

:13:48. > :13:54.implemented by Kiev. Mincing agreement is not something -- Minsk

:13:55. > :13:58.agreement is not vague. We enjoy some influence, but we cannot ask

:13:59. > :14:03.them to die. There's been a lot of talk about the possibility of a very

:14:04. > :14:07.early summit meeting between Mr Putin and soon to be President

:14:08. > :14:12.Trump. Is it going to happen? Well, we hope that President Putin is

:14:13. > :14:19.going to call President Trump after the inauguration, as soon as he's

:14:20. > :14:24.available and congratulate him. It's a protocol. So this congratulation

:14:25. > :14:31.should be delivered. We hope it will be delivered through a telephone

:14:32. > :14:35.call. Then we'll expect their exchange of views on a possibility

:14:36. > :14:40.of the meeting. What kind of time frame are we talking about?

:14:41. > :14:44.Currently we don't have any hints for the dates, unfortunately. Are we

:14:45. > :14:48.talking weeks, months, do you think? We hope, no I don't think weeks. Of

:14:49. > :14:52.course, I mean, he's the President of the United States and first of

:14:53. > :14:57.all, he's preoccupied with American business. It's like all Presidents.

:14:58. > :15:00.You ask me, what are we going to do tomorrow, during the inauguration,

:15:01. > :15:04.we are going to be preoccupied with Russian affairs. Because they are

:15:05. > :15:10.the issue of priority for President Putin. It's not coming weeks. But

:15:11. > :15:14.let's hope for the best that this meeting could take place coming

:15:15. > :15:21.month. Coming months. And to be clear about it, President Putin

:15:22. > :15:24.would like the earliest possible meeting with Mr Trump? I have no

:15:25. > :15:29.doubt Mr Putin will be ready for that, yes. One interesting point,

:15:30. > :15:36.just yesterday, it was announced here in Russia that Edward Snowden

:15:37. > :15:40.was given a couple more years of residency here. Some people say that

:15:41. > :15:47.one way to warm up relations quickly would be for Mr Putin to, in

:15:48. > :15:49.essence, give Edward Snowden to the incoming Trump administration as

:15:50. > :15:53.some sort of show of goodwill. In America they want to put him on

:15:54. > :15:56.trial. Donald Trump has made it plain that he personally believes

:15:57. > :16:08.that Edward Snowden should be punished for the release of secret

:16:09. > :16:11.information. Edward Snowden is a human being that can face a death

:16:12. > :16:15.penalty in the United States, because it's one of the few

:16:16. > :16:21.countries that still exercises death penalty. You'll never extradite him,

:16:22. > :16:25.is that what you're saying? This is a decision that can be taken by our

:16:26. > :16:32.immigration authorities or President Putin. I don't know. I don't know.

:16:33. > :16:39.But he's not a toy to be presented. He's a human being. Let's talk about

:16:40. > :16:43.Nato, as we go round the themes that are going to be presented to Trump

:16:44. > :16:48.and Putin as they consider their relationship. Donald Trump has said

:16:49. > :16:53.Nato is obsolete. He's also said Nato is very important to him. He

:16:54. > :16:59.generals tell him that Russia poses a direct threat, the way that you've

:17:00. > :17:04.massed both weaponry, material and man power or Nato's Eastern flank,

:17:05. > :17:11.are you prepared to show, again, good faith by, for example, pulling

:17:12. > :17:18.your missiles out? It is very complicated issue. You cannot just

:17:19. > :17:24.withdraw with those missiles from there without knowing that plans for

:17:25. > :17:29.creating entire Russian, entire missile system will be abolished on

:17:30. > :17:33.the European continent. Just one final point on diplomacy, again

:17:34. > :17:38.about dialogue, it's about Syria. It is very notable that in your

:17:39. > :17:42.initiative with the Turks to get some sort of dialogue going between

:17:43. > :17:46.the government and the rebels, which led to the ceasefire, the Americans

:17:47. > :17:52.weren't involved at all. Now there are more Peace Talks scheduled for

:17:53. > :17:55.Kazakhstan next week. Do you definitely want the Americans, under

:17:56. > :17:59.the new Trump administration, to be involved, to be big players

:18:00. > :18:03.alongside you and the Turks? Well, definitely we would welcome that. We

:18:04. > :18:10.would welcome that. Situation is very complicated. You know that the,

:18:11. > :18:14.also there is Iran, like a very important player in Syrian issue.

:18:15. > :18:19.The Iranians say the Americans won't be there. The Iranians are not

:18:20. > :18:24.welcoming the Americans. It's a very complicated issue for a very careful

:18:25. > :18:28.play. You and I in previous conversations have gone into great

:18:29. > :18:33.detail about accusations that Russia has committed human rights

:18:34. > :18:37.violations, some say war crimes in its military activities in Syria.

:18:38. > :18:41.One simple question on this: Since we last spoke, the UN general

:18:42. > :18:46.Assembly has voted to establish an investigative body to collect,

:18:47. > :18:51.consolidate and preserve, they say, evidence and prepare cases on war

:18:52. > :18:58.crimes and human rights abuses. Will you cooperate with that UN

:18:59. > :19:02.investigation? I have no doubt, yes. Should it be started and what will

:19:03. > :19:06.be the composition of that. Your people at the UN were gravely

:19:07. > :19:10.sceptical it should be started in the first place. You're saying,

:19:11. > :19:17.we've decided we are going to fully cooperate. No, we haven't decided.

:19:18. > :19:20.Theoretically, I say, theoretically, we would welcome those

:19:21. > :19:23.investigations. A final thought, I want to take it away from the

:19:24. > :19:30.international arena to the domestic arena. I just spoke to perhaps the

:19:31. > :19:34.leading voice in opposition to President Putin in this country

:19:35. > :19:40.today, a man who has declared he wants to run in the presidential

:19:41. > :19:45.elections in 2018 against Putin. He said to me, you know why Putin

:19:46. > :19:47.fights these wars, why he is projecting Russia's power in

:19:48. > :19:52.different arenas around the world, he is trying to distract the Russian

:19:53. > :19:57.people from what is going on inside their own country, the millions and

:19:58. > :20:01.millions condemned to live in poverty, the systemic corruption,

:20:02. > :20:05.which is seeing a tiny elite at the top, enriching themselves on the

:20:06. > :20:09.back of the majority of Russians who see no growth, no prosperity. That's

:20:10. > :20:18.what he's going to campaign on. That is going to cause you and your boss

:20:19. > :20:21.a great deal of trouble. Well, you know, unfortunately, we have a very

:20:22. > :20:25.weak opposition in our country. I wonder why that is. Could it be

:20:26. > :20:31.because they're not allowed access to state television for example? No

:20:32. > :20:34.it's not about state television. You have modern media and viewership of

:20:35. > :20:41.television is diminishing day by day. In Russia today, if you switch

:20:42. > :20:44.on the TV and you want to find an opposition voice it is almost

:20:45. > :20:48.impossible. The American President is winning elections using Twitter.

:20:49. > :20:54.In order to be a successful opposition you have to be

:20:55. > :20:57.sustainable. You have to have a programme of development of the

:20:58. > :21:06.country. You also have to be allowed a semblance of freedom. You have to

:21:07. > :21:13.be a person not at risk of being assassinated as Boris Nyemtsov was.

:21:14. > :21:17.Unlike Alexei Novalny, whose brother is in prison and he is on trumped up

:21:18. > :21:22.charges, you need the freedom to build a political movement. You know

:21:23. > :21:26.as well as I do, in Russia today, that's impossible. Why don't you

:21:27. > :21:30.think that they're not fair charges? Because the European Court of Human

:21:31. > :21:34.Rights has declared that they are political and it said that they were

:21:35. > :21:37.ill legitimate. We don't agree with that. You don't agree with the

:21:38. > :21:43.European Court of Human Rights when they analysed the evidence? I would

:21:44. > :21:54.rather trust our own court. We do have much more confidence in our own

:21:55. > :21:57.court system. Do you read Alexei Novalny's anticorruption foundation

:21:58. > :22:01.website. Once in a while, yes. You'd have seen your own name. Yes, most

:22:02. > :22:07.frequently. He wants to know how come a guy like you, a public

:22:08. > :22:12.servant on a not bad, but modest salary, how come you live in a

:22:13. > :22:19.Villa, which he's pleased to show me, which is worth, he says, $15

:22:20. > :22:25.million and the very famous watch of yours worth ?400,000. Try to double

:22:26. > :22:29.check that with a different real estate agent. Try to double check

:22:30. > :22:34.that. Do you want to tell me how much your Villa is worth, I'm happy

:22:35. > :22:38.to take your estimate? If we're here to discuss the cost of my Villa, I

:22:39. > :22:43.hope it's quite expensive. We're almost out of time. We have to wrap

:22:44. > :22:51.this up. Putin up for re-election in 2018, can you guarantee to me that

:22:52. > :22:57.Alexei Novany will at least be allowed to run and challenge Putin?

:22:58. > :23:02.I'm not head of central election committee. Tha can guarantee that or

:23:03. > :23:05.not guarantee that. So that's why I'm not entitled to make this kind

:23:06. > :23:13.of statements. Do you believe it would be best for Russia if an

:23:14. > :23:17.opposition leader like him were allowed to run against Putin? I

:23:18. > :23:25.think it would be best for Russia if we have a serious opposition with a

:23:26. > :23:29.serious approach, with experienced professionals and politicians trying

:23:30. > :23:34.to compete with acting power in the face of President Putin, who is

:23:35. > :23:40.being supported by 90% of this population. I'm taking from that

:23:41. > :23:45.last answer, that there's no question President Putin will run

:23:46. > :23:52.for another term in 2018? You know, we t was our first interview and I

:23:53. > :23:58.told you there was 2004, I think, or whenever... I'm not quite that old

:23:59. > :24:01.on HARDTalk. As a citizen of the Russian Federation, I hope he will

:24:02. > :24:07.take a decision to run. We have to end there. Dmitry Peskov, thank you

:24:08. > :24:29.very much for being on HARDTalk. Thank you, it was my pleasure.

:24:30. > :24:35.Hello. Cold out there isn't it? Temperatures are beginning to fall

:24:36. > :24:37.below freezing in some places. It's been