0:00:00 > 0:00:14Now on BBC News, it's HARDtalk.
0:00:18 > 0:00:21Welcome to HARDtalk with me, Zeinab Badawi, from the World
0:00:21 > 0:00:23Economic Forum in Davos.
0:00:23 > 0:00:25My guest is humanitarian, activist and Hollywood
0:00:25 > 0:00:30actor Forest Whitaker.
0:00:30 > 0:00:33He's probably best known for his Oscar-winning role ten years
0:00:33 > 0:00:37ago as the Ugandan dictator Idi Amin in The Last King of Scotland,
0:00:37 > 0:00:39and he's remained deeply involved with Uganda through his work
0:00:39 > 0:00:46with the Whitaker Peace Development Initiative,
0:00:46 > 0:00:49which helps young people living in communities affected by violence
0:00:49 > 0:00:50across several continents.
0:00:50 > 0:00:52He's also a special envoy for UNESCO and a member
0:00:52 > 0:00:55of the UN's advocacy group on sustainable development goals.
0:00:55 > 0:01:02But can celebrity activists like him be real agents for change?
0:01:08 > 0:01:11Forest Whitaker, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:01:11 > 0:01:13It's great to be here with you.
0:01:13 > 0:01:18Now, in your acting career, you've been a very,
0:01:18 > 0:01:19very versatile actor.
0:01:19 > 0:01:22Mainstream, popular films like Rogue One: A Star Wars Story,
0:01:22 > 0:01:24and also The Great Debaters, back in 2007, about black students
0:01:24 > 0:01:30striving for equality.
0:01:30 > 0:01:31Mm-hm.
0:01:31 > 0:01:33Do you like to act in any genre of films?
0:01:33 > 0:01:36I'm trying to continue to grow as a person,
0:01:36 > 0:01:38so each character is an opportunity for me to understand
0:01:38 > 0:01:41a different part of myself, a different part of humanity.
0:01:41 > 0:01:45So what happens is that I don't necessarily repeat the same roles
0:01:45 > 0:01:48because I'm continuing to search, to understand and deepen who I am
0:01:48 > 0:01:49as a person and an artist.
0:01:49 > 0:01:52Do you believe that film can really create a dialogue
0:01:52 > 0:01:53and help bring about change?
0:01:53 > 0:01:57Because you're a very committed social activist.
0:01:57 > 0:01:59For instance, you've been in rather gritty roles.
0:01:59 > 0:02:01You played a gay character in Pret-a-Porter.
0:02:01 > 0:02:04And also, in two of your films as Director, which are
0:02:04 > 0:02:07Waiting To Exhale and Hope Floats, you dealt with issues such
0:02:07 > 0:02:13as divorce, abandonment, adultery, that kind of thing.
0:02:13 > 0:02:17I mean, I think that we hope the film can lend a lens or a mirror
0:02:17 > 0:02:20to our inner thoughts and our inner understandings.
0:02:20 > 0:02:24I think that I've done a number of films...
0:02:24 > 0:02:26We have another production company and we do produce films.
0:02:26 > 0:02:29A lot of those films are with first-time film-makers.
0:02:29 > 0:02:34Unique, individual voices.
0:02:34 > 0:02:36We did one a few years ago called Fruitvale Station,
0:02:36 > 0:02:39with Ryan Coogler, that Nina Yang did with me.
0:02:39 > 0:02:42And that film was dealing with Oscar Grant and his being
0:02:42 > 0:02:44murdered in the BART station in San Francisco.
0:02:44 > 0:02:46Whereas I've done comedies where I've introduced,
0:02:46 > 0:02:51like Linda Mendoza, she did something called Chasing Papi.
0:02:51 > 0:02:54And that was her first film but, you know, just supporting these
0:02:54 > 0:02:57new voices and supporting her as a film-maker and as
0:02:57 > 0:02:59a female film-maker.
0:02:59 > 0:03:03But do you think that your films can kind of act as a catalyst
0:03:03 > 0:03:12to generate debate and perhaps to bring about change in mindsets?
0:03:12 > 0:03:15Certainly, I think that as the film I was talking about was put out
0:03:16 > 0:03:21at the conclusion of the trials that were going on with Trayvon Martin.
0:03:21 > 0:03:25Um, the films that we did before, we did a film on Vietnamese refugees
0:03:25 > 0:03:28that created a new dialogue with the director, Tim Linh Bui,
0:03:28 > 0:03:31about what had happened when they were here in
0:03:31 > 0:03:32the United States during that time.
0:03:32 > 0:03:35I think a lot of the films that even as an artist,
0:03:35 > 0:03:40as an actor let you delve into the dialogue of race
0:03:40 > 0:03:43and understanding and the movement, or the growth of the entire country.
0:03:43 > 0:03:46I think it was just a dialogue about what had happened
0:03:46 > 0:03:48during the country's time and what it was reaching for.
0:03:49 > 0:03:55The sort of sense of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
0:03:55 > 0:03:57You are...
0:03:57 > 0:03:59You won numerous accolades, awards, including Oscar for Best Actor
0:03:59 > 0:04:02for your portrayal as Idi Amin, the Ugandan dictator,
0:04:02 > 0:04:03in The last King of Scotland.
0:04:04 > 0:04:07Is that a film you're proud of?
0:04:07 > 0:04:11Yes, I gained a lot from that film as an artist and as a person.
0:04:11 > 0:04:15Er, I had to do so much research to try to understand this
0:04:15 > 0:04:15particular character.
0:04:15 > 0:04:23I had never been to the African continent up until that point.
0:04:23 > 0:04:25That was an opening for me.
0:04:25 > 0:04:27And I had been charged with the notion that
0:04:27 > 0:04:30I was from there, so I needed to understand what it
0:04:30 > 0:04:33felt like in some ways to actually be African,
0:04:33 > 0:04:34not African-American, you know?
0:04:34 > 0:04:42And that was a challenge.
0:04:42 > 0:04:43The challenge of understanding the historical relevance
0:04:43 > 0:04:47of what was going on with him during that time and all
0:04:47 > 0:04:53the countries in that region, you know, and the attacks that
0:04:54 > 0:04:55were going on, the colonialism.
0:04:55 > 0:04:58All these things were opportunities for me to continue to grow.
0:04:58 > 0:05:00I had to learn a new language.
0:05:00 > 0:05:03I was working on Swahili, so I could actually speak
0:05:03 > 0:05:06in the film in that language and be able to improvise a little
0:05:06 > 0:05:07bit in the language.
0:05:07 > 0:05:11I had to learn musical instruments because that was one of his things.
0:05:11 > 0:05:14It was like a party in a box, this accordion that he was playing,
0:05:14 > 0:05:17it allowed him to create a party wherever he wanted.
0:05:17 > 0:05:20It was certain qualities of his personality that were interesting.
0:05:20 > 0:05:23Very taxing as well, you had to put on 50lb, didn't you,
0:05:23 > 0:05:25to take the role on, something like that?
0:05:25 > 0:05:29You must have been eating a lot, Forest, in the run-up to that!
0:05:29 > 0:05:31Yeah, well, during that time, I just kept eating.
0:05:31 > 0:05:34So as an African-American going to the continent
0:05:34 > 0:05:36of Africa for the first time, what did you feel like
0:05:36 > 0:05:38when you first landed in Africa?
0:05:38 > 0:05:41Did you feel like, a sense that you'd come home?
0:05:41 > 0:05:43Did you have any kind of affinity?
0:05:43 > 0:05:46Because I acquired a deeper feeling of that the more I was opening
0:05:46 > 0:05:47myself to understanding things.
0:05:47 > 0:05:50At first, you get a general feeling of the air,
0:05:50 > 0:05:51the place and the people.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54They were very generous, the Ugandans were very
0:05:54 > 0:05:55generous to me that I met.
0:05:55 > 0:05:58But then something happens as you start to eat the food,
0:05:58 > 0:06:01you rest on the side of a road, riding motorcycles
0:06:01 > 0:06:02through the streets.
0:06:02 > 0:06:06I tried to experience as much as I could to help me understand how
0:06:06 > 0:06:07to project this in a truthful way.
0:06:08 > 0:06:11You were quoted in the New York Magazine in 2006 saying -
0:06:11 > 0:06:13Idi Amin was responsible for major atrocities, but he also
0:06:13 > 0:06:15reshaped opportunities for people in his country.
0:06:15 > 0:06:19He was a person who was colonised and he stood up to colonialism.
0:06:19 > 0:06:22And he was demonised for many things, but partly for standing up.
0:06:22 > 0:06:24Sounds like you perhaps somewhat admired him?
0:06:24 > 0:06:28I didn't admire the atrocities that he did, as far as the many deaths.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31Although if you examine the historical reference,
0:06:31 > 0:06:34you'll see that the person behind him committed more murders
0:06:34 > 0:06:36and the person before him has committed more murders.
0:06:36 > 0:06:40It doesn't make his right, it's just curious as to why he was so focused
0:06:40 > 0:06:48on during that time.
0:06:48 > 0:06:51I think certainly, he was trying to bring a sort
0:06:51 > 0:06:52of sense of nationalism.
0:06:52 > 0:06:55He kicked out the West, which was unusual for someone
0:06:55 > 0:06:56who was from the continent.
0:06:56 > 0:06:59It's not a question of, like, trying to act like he's
0:06:59 > 0:07:02some form of a hero, it's a question of just, like,
0:07:02 > 0:07:05looking at the references and seeing the different things that affected
0:07:05 > 0:07:07the people and changed their sense of identity.
0:07:07 > 0:07:09And he did, like, have some influence
0:07:09 > 0:07:10on changing their identity.
0:07:10 > 0:07:12You said in general about empathising with characters
0:07:12 > 0:07:15that once you understand the patterns that shape a person,
0:07:15 > 0:07:17how can you not find sympathy?
0:07:17 > 0:07:19Does that apply to somebody like Idi Amin who,
0:07:19 > 0:07:22as you say, committed, and we know, many atrocities?
0:07:22 > 0:07:24I think in some ways, I guess very strongly.
0:07:24 > 0:07:27Because at first, you just look at what is projected of him
0:07:27 > 0:07:31and you have to try to go to the source of -
0:07:31 > 0:07:32what would make him become that?
0:07:32 > 0:07:34What would make him commit 300,000 murders?
0:07:34 > 0:07:39What would allow him to do some of the atrocities that occurred?
0:07:39 > 0:07:41You're asking for understanding, though, for somebody
0:07:41 > 0:07:42who was a very brutal dictator.
0:07:42 > 0:07:45I'm not asking for understanding for him, I'm looking
0:07:45 > 0:07:46for humanity in who he is.
0:07:46 > 0:07:48I think we have to look at humanity.
0:07:48 > 0:07:52We have to be able to stand in each other's shoes and understand
0:07:52 > 0:07:55that the way we behave is based on the different structures
0:07:55 > 0:07:59or things that happened to us as we grew up in our lives.
0:07:59 > 0:08:02And so my philosophy as an artist is, I look at every character
0:08:02 > 0:08:05and I try to understand them, I go to their core.
0:08:05 > 0:08:07Pulling away the different experiences of their lives.
0:08:07 > 0:08:09Pulling away the different pains and understandings,
0:08:09 > 0:08:11until I get to the bottom.
0:08:11 > 0:08:15And at the bottom of it, I believe we are all connected in some way.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18At the bottom, there's just a flame that is connected to everybody.
0:08:18 > 0:08:22And then you put those things back up on top of that character,
0:08:22 > 0:08:23that person, and that forms him.
0:08:23 > 0:08:26And then you can see a person who did atrocities,
0:08:26 > 0:08:29who did horrible things, but you do try to go
0:08:29 > 0:08:31for understanding.
0:08:31 > 0:08:33The perceptions that that film raised about Africa -
0:08:33 > 0:08:36I want to tell you what a black British film critic, Vanessa
0:08:36 > 0:08:38Walters, wrote in the Guardian.
0:08:38 > 0:08:41She said, "The fact that Amin killed many of his people,
0:08:41 > 0:08:43does that give carte blanche to the film-makers to play
0:08:43 > 0:08:46to some of the worst stereotypes of corrupt,
0:08:46 > 0:08:47murderous, incompetent and ridiculous black leaders?
0:08:47 > 0:08:49Africa is presented as a place of violence
0:08:49 > 0:08:51and superstition, ruled by fear."
0:08:51 > 0:08:54How far do you believe that's true and, if so, does it worry you?
0:08:54 > 0:08:57I mean, I think that certainly because the continent is really
0:08:58 > 0:09:01diverse and so there's all different types of stories and many of those
0:09:01 > 0:09:04stories need to be told, you know, from different ways of life,
0:09:04 > 0:09:07different types of characters who make up that continent.
0:09:07 > 0:09:10But I think that if you look at, historically, this particular
0:09:10 > 0:09:13character and what he did in his life and the things that
0:09:13 > 0:09:17happened, then you have to, like, deal with the truth of what that is.
0:09:17 > 0:09:18It doesn't mean...
0:09:18 > 0:09:20Because I think the movie was somewhat about colonialisation
0:09:20 > 0:09:23and what colonisation did, and I think that was looking at,
0:09:23 > 0:09:25painting that picture that he was created.
0:09:25 > 0:09:28He was a soldier who was famous for fighting with the Mau Maus,
0:09:29 > 0:09:32and they took him.
0:09:32 > 0:09:34He wasn't choosing to be a President.
0:09:34 > 0:09:36They took him and said, here's this opportunity,
0:09:36 > 0:09:37we'd like you to become President.
0:09:38 > 0:09:41We will use you as a puppet to deal with our needs.
0:09:41 > 0:09:46But unfortunately for them, he chose not to take that path.
0:09:46 > 0:09:48OK, but doesn't it play to the negative stereotypes
0:09:48 > 0:09:51of Africa, which is the point that Vanessa Walters is making,
0:09:51 > 0:09:54do you accept that there's soem truth in that?
0:09:54 > 0:09:55I can say that...
0:09:55 > 0:09:56Does it play into that?
0:09:56 > 0:10:00I think that in this particular story, I think it's trying to stay
0:10:00 > 0:10:02pretty true to what was occurring during that time.
0:10:02 > 0:10:04The things you were talking about.
0:10:04 > 0:10:07When you were referencing Idi Amin, you said all kinds of atrocities.
0:10:07 > 0:10:10You had no sympathy for him, you were discussing all these things
0:10:10 > 0:10:13and asking me how I could have any feeling about him.
0:10:13 > 0:10:18That was your point of view.
0:10:18 > 0:10:19Yeah, that was.
0:10:19 > 0:10:22You know, so I'm saying that, yes, that that may exist.
0:10:22 > 0:10:25And I think, yes, more stories need to be told, you know,
0:10:25 > 0:10:28that deal with the African continent that show the uplifting stories,
0:10:28 > 0:10:31that show the lives, the joys and all the things like that.
0:10:31 > 0:10:33That's one of many stories.
0:10:33 > 0:10:34It's just one of many stories.
0:10:34 > 0:10:37What does the film tell us about Hollywood?
0:10:37 > 0:10:40Because the story is related through the eyes of a young Scottish
0:10:40 > 0:10:41doctor who goes to Uganda.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44I tell you what the veteran film producer Joe Pichirallo says,
0:10:44 > 0:10:47in general: "The bottom line is that the major studios want
0:10:47 > 0:10:50assurances that film projects have the potential to attract
0:10:50 > 0:10:51a significant white audience."
0:10:51 > 0:10:51Um...
0:10:51 > 0:10:56So they've got to go through the eyes of a white doctor.
0:10:56 > 0:11:00I mean, I think that has been the case at different times and it
0:11:00 > 0:11:02continues to be that way at certain times.
0:11:02 > 0:11:05In the case of that, it was based on a book, you know,
0:11:05 > 0:11:08and so it was following that particular book.
0:11:08 > 0:11:11As a general point, though, do you think it's valid?
0:11:11 > 0:11:12As a general point.
0:11:12 > 0:11:14At times, it's been extremely valid.
0:11:14 > 0:11:15I think it continues to be.
0:11:15 > 0:11:19I mean, we're looking at a system where 30% of the leading
0:11:19 > 0:11:22characters in films, minorities, are people of colour.
0:11:22 > 0:11:25But in reality, it's 40% of our population is that.
0:11:25 > 0:11:32So there's a disparity.
0:11:32 > 0:11:35And so there's this question of economy, there's a question
0:11:35 > 0:11:37of why you make which film you make.
0:11:37 > 0:11:45And sometimes, I think the studios themselves have made this assumption
0:11:45 > 0:11:48that in order to make a film be successful, in order to make
0:11:48 > 0:11:51the monies that they need to make, they needed
0:11:51 > 0:11:52to have a white protagonist.
0:11:52 > 0:11:52Yeah.
0:11:52 > 0:11:55I mean, I'll put to you some figures.
0:11:55 > 0:11:57In 90 years of the history of the Academy Awards,
0:11:57 > 0:12:00under 15 men and women of colour have received Oscars
0:12:00 > 0:12:01for Best Actors.
0:12:01 > 0:12:04And as you know, in 2015-2016, there were no nominations for black
0:12:04 > 0:12:06or non-white actors, and that made directors
0:12:06 > 0:12:08like Spike Lee and other people boycott the Oscars.
0:12:08 > 0:12:11Have you received short shrift in Hollywood, do you think,
0:12:11 > 0:12:15as a result of your colour, or are you just one of the success
0:12:15 > 0:12:23stories who's swum against the tide?
0:12:23 > 0:12:24Um...
0:12:24 > 0:12:26I think in the first part of your statement,
0:12:26 > 0:12:28I think certainly, there are disparities that have happened
0:12:28 > 0:12:33with artists who have not been recognised for their work at times.
0:12:33 > 0:12:43You know, and I think it's still being worked on.
0:12:43 > 0:12:47It's even being worked on by the Academy to make it more
0:12:47 > 0:12:49inclusive, to make more people of colour, different people
0:12:49 > 0:12:52from different cultural backgrounds and different
0:12:52 > 0:12:53languages come together.
0:12:53 > 0:12:56For myself, it's difficult because I had a particular reason
0:12:56 > 0:12:58why I was becoming an artist.
0:12:58 > 0:13:01At the time when I was becoming an artist, I was using it
0:13:01 > 0:13:05as a window for me to be able to understand humanity in some way.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08So even if I had roles, it might not make me satisfied.
0:13:08 > 0:13:11I may be doing something that everyone would laud
0:13:11 > 0:13:14and would say was great, but maybe it didn't create a great
0:13:14 > 0:13:19individual journey for me.
0:13:19 > 0:13:22Now, I've had the opportunity to have really, really interesting
0:13:22 > 0:13:23journeys and different characters and stuff.
0:13:23 > 0:13:25Perhaps atypical at times, and becoming more typical,
0:13:25 > 0:13:27you know what I mean?
0:13:27 > 0:13:31But I want to ask you about that because one role that you did take
0:13:31 > 0:13:34was, you played a cop, a policeman, in the TV
0:13:34 > 0:13:34series The Shield.
0:13:34 > 0:13:43And you grew up, you were born in Texas, but you moved to LA
0:13:43 > 0:13:46when you were four years of age and you lived in a fairly
0:13:46 > 0:13:49segregated neighbourhood, and you talked about how you saw
0:13:49 > 0:13:50acts of police brutality, even against members
0:13:50 > 0:13:54of your own family and friends and so on and so forth.
0:13:54 > 0:13:57So then how did you feel about acting the role of a policeman?
0:13:57 > 0:14:00Again, I think each time, it's an opportunity to try to, like,
0:14:00 > 0:14:02understand more about that situation, understand
0:14:02 > 0:14:04more about myself, understand more about people.
0:14:04 > 0:14:07So if I'm playing a police officer, I get the opportunity
0:14:07 > 0:14:10to walk in their shoes, to try to understand their purview
0:14:10 > 0:14:12and understand that particular person individually.
0:14:12 > 0:14:17It's not...
0:14:17 > 0:14:20I can't say it's difficult to play a police officer.
0:14:20 > 0:14:22Maybe I have certain reactions to police officers personally
0:14:22 > 0:14:24because of experiences that I've had.
0:14:24 > 0:14:28Maybe it put a charge inside of me at times because of things I've seen
0:14:28 > 0:14:31or because of the way I was brought up, you know.
0:14:31 > 0:14:34That's still things that I'm working on as a human being.
0:14:34 > 0:14:36But playing the character was another opportunity
0:14:36 > 0:14:37to try to understand humanity.
0:14:37 > 0:14:43And for me, that is the goal, that's the goal.
0:14:44 > 0:14:46But I mean, we've seen obviously the Black Lives Matter campaign
0:14:47 > 0:14:48and even big stars like you are...
0:14:48 > 0:14:51For instance, I'm thinking of the case when in 2013,
0:14:51 > 0:14:54you walked into a New York delhi and you were wrongly
0:14:54 > 0:14:58accused of shoplifting...
0:14:58 > 0:15:02Yeah, stopped and frisked.
0:15:02 > 0:15:03Yes, you were stopped and frisked.
0:15:03 > 0:15:09I mean, what does that tell us about race in America today?
0:15:09 > 0:15:12I mean, certainly, I mean, we're looking at all the...
0:15:12 > 0:15:15Talking about Black Lives Matter, talking about what sort of came out
0:15:15 > 0:15:17of as statements about, against what was happening
0:15:17 > 0:15:20inside many different communities, where people of colour
0:15:20 > 0:15:22were being harmed or hurt by state officials or police,
0:15:22 > 0:15:24you know what I mean?
0:15:24 > 0:15:26And the profiling that goes on with them, in Stop-and-Frisk
0:15:26 > 0:15:29movement and stuff, it makes a statement about, you know,
0:15:29 > 0:15:35the nation, how far we still need to go.
0:15:35 > 0:15:38I mean, certainly, I think a young black teenager is, like,
0:15:38 > 0:15:4320 times more likely to be killed than his white counterpart.
0:15:44 > 0:15:48So certainly, we have things that we need to be
0:15:48 > 0:15:52working on, you know?
0:15:52 > 0:15:58You campaigned for Barack Obama in his presidential bid
0:15:58 > 0:16:01and you said back in 2008, "I can feel a tide of
0:16:01 > 0:16:05change in the country."
0:16:05 > 0:16:06Did it come?
0:16:06 > 0:16:09I think that there is still a tide of change.
0:16:09 > 0:16:12I mean, to try to act like we haven't had great progress
0:16:12 > 0:16:14as a nation and culturally is not true.
0:16:14 > 0:16:17I mean, we're coming from a situation where originally,
0:16:17 > 0:16:19we came to the nation as slaves.
0:16:19 > 0:16:21Now, the head of our country, the President, President Obama,
0:16:22 > 0:16:25it's a long journey, so to act as if we haven't
0:16:25 > 0:16:31moved anywhere...
0:16:31 > 0:16:33But he himself said...
0:16:33 > 0:16:35It doesn't mean we don't have places to go.
0:16:35 > 0:16:38Look, I think Martin Luther King was saying we're owed...
0:16:38 > 0:16:40It's a promissory note that's been given to us.
0:16:40 > 0:16:42That promissory note was for life, liberty and happiness.
0:16:42 > 0:16:46We have not achieved that, so until we truly achieve that,
0:16:46 > 0:16:49then we haven't become the America that we say we want to be.
0:16:49 > 0:16:52Living up to our Constitution or our Declaration of Independence,
0:16:52 > 0:16:53we're not living in that.
0:16:53 > 0:16:56But he didn't do very well on race, did he?
0:16:56 > 0:16:59I mean, even in his final speech as President, Barack Obama
0:16:59 > 0:17:01said: "After my election, there was talk of a
0:17:01 > 0:17:02post-racial America.
0:17:02 > 0:17:04Such a vision, however well intended, was never realistic
0:17:04 > 0:17:08for race remains a potent and often divisive force in our society."
0:17:08 > 0:17:10The fact that there was this first African-American President didn't
0:17:10 > 0:17:12really change things on the ground, did it?
0:17:12 > 0:17:14And in that sense, it failed.
0:17:14 > 0:17:18No, I don't think he failed in that respect.
0:17:18 > 0:17:20I think he moved forward a conversation, moved
0:17:20 > 0:17:20forward an understanding.
0:17:21 > 0:17:24It changes the psyche of the nation and the psyche of,
0:17:24 > 0:17:26in some ways, the world.
0:17:26 > 0:17:29Like I say, we're working on making those things stronger.
0:17:29 > 0:17:34You know what I mean?
0:17:34 > 0:17:38But to act like he hasn't succeeded and to act like that doesn't exist
0:17:38 > 0:17:40and to act like there isn't some success is incorrect
0:17:41 > 0:17:42because it's the truth.
0:17:42 > 0:17:44So Donald Trump, of course, in the White House and 88%
0:17:44 > 0:17:47of African-Americans who voted in the presidential election voted
0:17:47 > 0:17:48for Hillary Clinton.
0:17:48 > 0:17:50Only 8% of them voted for Donald Trump.
0:17:50 > 0:17:53Does that worry you, then, that he's not going to be
0:17:53 > 0:17:57a President for all Americans, in particular African Americans?
0:17:57 > 0:17:59Well, that certainly remains to be seen.
0:17:59 > 0:18:02I'm hopeful that he's going to be a President in the end
0:18:02 > 0:18:04who represents all the constituency, who represents the people
0:18:04 > 0:18:14of all cultures, races, of sexual preference, of immigrants.
0:18:14 > 0:18:16Are you optimistic about that?
0:18:16 > 0:18:17Optimistic?
0:18:17 > 0:18:20I can't be optimistic, based on some of the statements
0:18:20 > 0:18:22that have been made.
0:18:22 > 0:18:25Which statements worry you in particular?
0:18:25 > 0:18:28Well, there's a lot of statements, you know what I mean!
0:18:28 > 0:18:31There are loads, yeah!
0:18:31 > 0:18:31Yes!
0:18:31 > 0:18:34And so there's concerns, but then we have to come
0:18:34 > 0:18:37to the table and try to find some common ground and hopefully
0:18:37 > 0:18:43push forward the agenda.
0:18:43 > 0:18:45It doesn't look good, though, does it?
0:18:45 > 0:18:48I mean, he's taken a swipe at what he's called
0:18:48 > 0:18:48'liberal Hollywood'.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51We saw the attack he made on Meryl Streep after she criticised
0:18:51 > 0:18:53him at the Golden Globe Awards.
0:18:53 > 0:18:53Uh-huh.
0:18:53 > 0:18:55So he doesn't like 'liberal Hollywood'.
0:18:55 > 0:18:57That's got to include you, doesn't it?
0:18:57 > 0:19:01I mean, it won't stop me from doing the work in the manner in which I've
0:19:01 > 0:19:04been doing it for years and continuing to try
0:19:04 > 0:19:05to strive forward.
0:19:05 > 0:19:07You know, I'm hopeful that we will be able
0:19:07 > 0:19:09to be a nation that's, you know, united.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12Right now, we've been a nation that's been polarised.
0:19:12 > 0:19:14And before that, we had a lot of questions.
0:19:14 > 0:19:17And I think there's a lot of people who are doubting that
0:19:17 > 0:19:21we're gonna move foward, you know, in a positive way, but we
0:19:21 > 0:19:22have to try to push it forward.
0:19:22 > 0:19:25And if it doesn't happen, then the people themselves have
0:19:25 > 0:19:27to stand up and speak.
0:19:27 > 0:19:29If it doesn't happen, if they're not being respected,
0:19:29 > 0:19:32not being treated well, their needs are not being met,
0:19:32 > 0:19:35then they have to stand up - whether that's in protest movements,
0:19:35 > 0:19:37marches, however - to make their voices be heard.
0:19:37 > 0:19:38Mmm.
0:19:38 > 0:19:41What is more important to you, your work as an actor
0:19:41 > 0:19:42or as a humanitarian activist?
0:19:42 > 0:19:45I mean, my work as a, you know, humanitarian work
0:19:45 > 0:19:46is particularly important to me.
0:19:46 > 0:19:49I think at the kernel of it, I'm always trying and striving
0:19:50 > 0:19:53to understand humanity and make sure that I see myself in others.
0:19:53 > 0:19:56And if I see myself in someone else and they're struggling
0:19:56 > 0:20:00and suffering, then I'd like to take up that mantle to try to heal that.
0:20:00 > 0:20:04Your Peace % Development Initiative works a great deal with young people
0:20:04 > 0:20:05affected by violence.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08In particular, young people, children who were forced to work,
0:20:08 > 0:20:11to fight as child soldiers - which, of course, we've seen
0:20:11 > 0:20:21in Uganda, as well as other parts of the world.
0:20:21 > 0:20:24Er, I don't address it just by dealing with child soldiers.
0:20:24 > 0:20:26I've been working with child soldiers.
0:20:26 > 0:20:28There's 250,000 child soldiers in the world, you know.
0:20:28 > 0:20:31I started working initially in Uganda with child soldiers.
0:20:31 > 0:20:33We started working in the South Sudan on our
0:20:33 > 0:20:41Youth Peacemaker Network to deal with peace and reconciliation
0:20:41 > 0:20:44and development, and so we've been training youths in that way.
0:20:44 > 0:20:47We started first in Jonglei State because we thought the conflict
0:20:47 > 0:20:48might happen there.
0:20:48 > 0:20:51We wanted to hopefully help stabilise the country if it did.
0:20:51 > 0:20:53And it did happen, and that was the place
0:20:53 > 0:20:57where the conflicts happened.
0:20:57 > 0:21:01But the youths that we have trained have acted as a sort of early
0:21:01 > 0:21:03warning system to help each other get to safety.
0:21:03 > 0:21:06So that was very powerful and that's what they did.
0:21:06 > 0:21:11Developing these countries is such a huge, huge problem.
0:21:11 > 0:21:14You can help the young people, but where are the jobs for them?
0:21:14 > 0:21:17Even if you get them an education, quality education, there's no
0:21:17 > 0:21:19gainful employment for them and so on.
0:21:19 > 0:21:22So it must make you feel very frustrated that
0:21:22 > 0:21:24despite your huge efforts, you still sometimes see
0:21:24 > 0:21:31that there isn't as much change on the ground as you would like.
0:21:31 > 0:21:32Um, yes, certainly, I mean...
0:21:32 > 0:21:35Look, where you deal with a situation like in South Sudan
0:21:35 > 0:21:38where people have been, you know, the civil war's been
0:21:38 > 0:21:41going on for a long time, there's 50,000 deaths, there's...
0:21:41 > 0:21:42I don't know, 2.9 million people displaced.
0:21:43 > 0:21:45A million people displaced.
0:21:45 > 0:21:47One million are refugees and two internally displaced,
0:21:47 > 0:21:51and the United Nations is saying that five million people don't have
0:21:51 > 0:21:53enough food or are in need of humanitarian assistance.
0:21:53 > 0:21:53Exactly.
0:21:53 > 0:21:55And that's nearly half the population.
0:21:55 > 0:21:58Exactly, but are we to not, like, try to move things forward
0:21:58 > 0:22:00and help the equation because of those atrocities?
0:22:00 > 0:22:02Of course you help...
0:22:02 > 0:22:05No, but I'm saying that what we've done is worked with the youth,
0:22:05 > 0:22:06training them in that area.
0:22:06 > 0:22:09Those youths that went out into the community and trained
0:22:09 > 0:22:10others in those areas.
0:22:10 > 0:22:12And in our space, you know...
0:22:12 > 0:22:15Because as you say, it is a really difficult situation,
0:22:15 > 0:22:18but they have managed to be able to help during the situation as
0:22:18 > 0:22:19peace builders, as peace mediators.
0:22:19 > 0:22:23I mean, one of our youths, like, went to get the army
0:22:23 > 0:22:26to move out of a school, in order to bring the
0:22:26 > 0:22:26children back inside.
0:22:26 > 0:22:28He was able to accomplish that.
0:22:28 > 0:22:31One of our youths has been working on policy.
0:22:31 > 0:22:33He was accepted as a member of parliament.
0:22:33 > 0:22:40A lot of these different things are going on.
0:22:40 > 0:22:42There are, like, all these development projects that
0:22:42 > 0:22:44they're still doing, even during this time of really
0:22:45 > 0:22:47major atrocities and different difficulties that are going on.
0:22:47 > 0:22:50Well, a lot of worries about South Sudan, as you say.
0:22:50 > 0:22:53You have met President Salva Kiir of South Sudan and also his
0:22:53 > 0:22:56erstwhile deputy Riek Machar, who now leads the Sudan People's
0:22:56 > 0:22:58Liberation movement in opposition, the main rebel leader.
0:22:58 > 0:22:58Mm-hm.
0:22:58 > 0:23:01The rivalry between them is so personal, there are those
0:23:01 > 0:23:05who argue that there will be no peace in South Sudan until both men
0:23:05 > 0:23:07are no longer on the scene, acting politically.
0:23:07 > 0:23:08Um, I don't know.
0:23:08 > 0:23:11I think that recently, I think it was in December,
0:23:11 > 0:23:13they started a dialogue for reconciliation in the country
0:23:13 > 0:23:16and I'm hoping that it will be inclusive, this national dialogue,
0:23:17 > 0:23:19and that everyone will be included and they'll be able to move
0:23:20 > 0:23:23through it and talk through it.
0:23:23 > 0:23:26Otherwise, there are a lot of players who are trying
0:23:26 > 0:23:29to people find common ground, to be able to do with the situation.
0:23:29 > 0:23:31It's like any other situation of this magnitude.
0:23:31 > 0:23:34Can activists like you really be agents for change?
0:23:34 > 0:23:38I mean, I think that we all can be agents of change if we,
0:23:38 > 0:23:40like, decide to stand up for certain things.
0:23:40 > 0:23:42Certainly, like, we've been working in this area.
0:23:42 > 0:23:45We have thousands of youths in the Protection Civilian Camp
0:23:45 > 0:23:48that we work with - 3,000, I believe, at the moment.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51You know, we're about to go into a refugee camp where we'll be
0:23:51 > 0:23:56working with about 10,000 people.
0:23:56 > 0:23:58So certainly, we're dealing with the situation, building
0:23:58 > 0:24:00community learning centres across that state,
0:24:00 > 0:24:01eastern equatorial state.
0:24:01 > 0:24:04So certain things are happening during this time of difficulty,
0:24:04 > 0:24:05during this time of really painful recognitions.
0:24:05 > 0:24:14Forest Whitaker, thank you very much indeed for coming on HARDtalk.
0:24:14 > 0:24:15Thank you.