:00:08. > :00:15.Welcome to HARDtalk. I'm Stephen Sackur.
:00:16. > :00:18.Getting to the top in showbusiness is hard, but staying there is much,
:00:19. > :00:21.much harder; few stars can match the sustained success in music,
:00:22. > :00:33.film and theatre that Clark has enjoyed.
:00:34. > :00:36.Petula Clark went on to have a host of hits in the UK, France,
:00:37. > :00:38.the US and pretty much everywhere else.
:00:39. > :00:40.She has worked with legendary names from Fred Astaire
:00:41. > :00:43.to Serge Gainsbourg, and continues to sing and tour.
:00:44. > :01:15.So what makes her tick? Petula Clark, welcomed the HARDtalk.
:01:16. > :01:26.Thank you, Stephen. I have to begin by talking
:01:27. > :01:28.about the voice because you do have one of those wonderfully
:01:29. > :01:40.distinctive, clear singing voices and wonder
:01:41. > :01:44.when you reflect on your long career if you feel the voice is the same
:01:45. > :01:46.now as it ever was? Pretty much.
:01:47. > :01:50.Today I am a bit husky, I have a good old English cold.
:01:51. > :01:54.My voice is perhaps a little bit stronger than it used to be
:01:55. > :01:56.and probably a bit more base in it. Do you think voices mature
:01:57. > :01:58.with age and experience? Of course, they do.
:01:59. > :02:05.Eventually they start to... You are not there yet.
:02:06. > :02:08.Have you in your life any memory of a time when you were not
:02:09. > :02:16.a singing performer? Even when I was very, very young,
:02:17. > :02:20.well, I used to sing all the time. I was one of those musical kids
:02:21. > :02:23.and I lived inside my home head. -- own. There was was music going
:02:24. > :02:29.on in telling stories. Very imaginative.
:02:30. > :02:31.That was in Wales and it fitted in very well in Wales
:02:32. > :02:35.because everybody is very musical in Wales.
:02:36. > :02:39.Has it always brought you joy? Yes, absolutely.
:02:40. > :02:44.The first time I sang in public was in Chapel,
:02:45. > :02:52.in front of the congregation and I was about six.
:02:53. > :02:58.And I was hooked from then on. Your story is extraordinary
:02:59. > :03:07.because by the age of about nine you are actually singing to a very
:03:08. > :03:11.wide public through the radio. A fairly young medium then
:03:12. > :03:14.but you were a star as a child it suggested you are quite precocious.
:03:15. > :03:25.Precocious? Ready to put yourself out
:03:26. > :03:32.there in front of an audience. I was not a showbiz kid
:03:33. > :03:36.and I'm not now. My father was very strict and he was
:03:37. > :03:39.taking care of me and managing me, I suppose, in a way and this
:03:40. > :03:45.was a different time. There was a great deal
:03:46. > :03:49.of discipline so, though, was not the showbiz kid, I was not
:03:50. > :03:52.spoiled by I liked to sing. I was shy and like a lot
:03:53. > :03:55.of performance they are shy until they get on stage.
:03:56. > :03:58.I would love for you to watch with the elite of clip of you...
:03:59. > :04:01.Oh, dear. This was captured by the news.
:04:02. > :04:04.You singing voice was so lovely and pure, the British forces
:04:05. > :04:07.fighting in the Second World War really enjoyed it and you became
:04:08. > :04:14.a star very young. The news marked your stardom.
:04:15. > :04:20.Yes, Petula Clark is like many little girls and enjoys the same
:04:21. > :04:23.things as friends but more than anything she likes singing
:04:24. > :04:24.and the public loves Petula Clark, especially the soldiers
:04:25. > :04:47.whom she reminds of their kids at home.
:04:48. > :04:53.# Everybody knows Donald # Looking at his mammy,
:04:54. > :05:05.with eyes so shiny blue... I have to ask you, what does it feel
:05:06. > :05:08.watching that now? It is sort of charming,
:05:09. > :05:16.in a way, it is almost like watching someone else, though.
:05:17. > :05:21.I do sort of remember those moments in front of a BBC microphone.
:05:22. > :05:26.Standing on the box because you're so tiny.
:05:27. > :05:29.I had to stand in a box. It was quite sweet that
:05:30. > :05:30.a true little voice. Very true.
:05:31. > :05:33.I want to tease out the relationship with your father.
:05:34. > :05:37.He was quite strict. Today, in showbiz and indeed
:05:38. > :05:41.in top sports as well, there is this concept of the very
:05:42. > :05:44.pushy parent who really has grand ambitions for their child
:05:45. > :05:47.and will not let them rest until those ambitions are met.
:05:48. > :05:54.Was he a bit like that? I suppose he was a bit
:05:55. > :05:58.but I absolutely adored him. He could do no wrong and,
:05:59. > :06:00.it is true, he always wanted to be an act to himself.
:06:01. > :06:03.He was very handsome. Was never allowed to go
:06:04. > :06:12.into showbiz and so I think, through me, he was living
:06:13. > :06:16.out his fantasies. I suppose he was a bit pushy
:06:17. > :06:20.but I was a child and somebody had to push we forward.
:06:21. > :06:24.The complication is that your father and he became your manager
:06:25. > :06:27.and by your early 20s, when you were starring in movies
:06:28. > :06:32.and you were a major recording star in Britain,
:06:33. > :06:38.it must have been quite difficult to see where the barriers were,
:06:39. > :06:41.the lines between dad and manager. Yes, you are absolutely right,
:06:42. > :06:46.it did become difficult as I was growing older and wanted
:06:47. > :06:52.to make my own mistakes. It became difficult for us both
:06:53. > :06:56.because we would go home after working I would go home
:06:57. > :07:00.and I was not sure if I was having dinner with my dad or my manager.
:07:01. > :07:04.We were not always agreeing on everything and he eventually...
:07:05. > :07:08.We had to split and it was hard for both of us.
:07:09. > :07:12.There was a gap when we did not see each other very much and I know
:07:13. > :07:16.that was hard for him and for me too but I think it had to be done.
:07:17. > :07:20.After that we were fine. We had to do that separation.
:07:21. > :07:26.One of the big decisions in your life was actually to go
:07:27. > :07:28.and live in France because you had become a big star in Britain
:07:29. > :07:31.but you'd then... You met and eventually married
:07:32. > :07:39.a Frenchman and you went to live in France and you have said
:07:40. > :07:43.that going to France, to Paris and discovering Edith Piaf
:07:44. > :07:48.and a whole bunch of great artists in Paris really change your life.
:07:49. > :07:54.I was wondering in what ways? My life was totally
:07:55. > :07:57.changed by going to France. I did not want to go and live
:07:58. > :08:00.in France, it was an accident but that is another story.
:08:01. > :08:03.I found myself living in Paris which at that time
:08:04. > :08:06.was very foreign indeed. I did not speak any French
:08:07. > :08:09.and then I was meeting all these amazing artists.
:08:10. > :08:12.The first time I saw Edith Piaf, it was amazing, I never saw
:08:13. > :08:18.anything like that. When I saw her she was already quite
:08:19. > :08:23.a sick lady and she just made onto centrestage and I thought,
:08:24. > :08:34.this is not going to be very good. This is uncomfortable for me
:08:35. > :08:38.and then she started to sing and that is when I learnt don't
:08:39. > :08:41.about singing with your heart and soul and everything else.
:08:42. > :08:44.You know, she sang about love, death, hate, met us,
:08:45. > :08:47.-- sex, everything, you know and I have never seen anything
:08:48. > :08:49.like that before. So it was really
:08:50. > :08:50.a learning experience. I learned from her personally
:08:51. > :08:54.and professionally. It made you much more self-aware
:08:55. > :09:08.and ready to express your true self? Yes and I was also married
:09:09. > :09:14.and had two children. The great thing for me, there
:09:15. > :09:17.was always that image because I had been a star in England,
:09:18. > :09:20.it was difficult for me to get past that.
:09:21. > :09:23.Whereas in France, they knew nothing about that and they just like me
:09:24. > :09:31.as I was. And that was amazing for me.
:09:32. > :09:35.Pretty wonderful. I mean, in a sense, what you seem
:09:36. > :09:38.to be saying you were much more than able to express sexuality,
:09:39. > :09:40.that depth of your soul. Yes, absolutely.
:09:41. > :09:42.You worked with Petula Clark, guys that were deeply
:09:43. > :09:48.sorrowful and sexy. The heavies!
:09:49. > :09:50.LAUGHTER. By that time you then launched yourself into America,
:09:51. > :09:52.you were a much more confident performer and artist.
:09:53. > :09:57.Yes but then again America was very different to France
:09:58. > :10:00.and I was learning again in America because in America the Americans
:10:01. > :10:05.know about pop music, it is their music, after all,
:10:06. > :10:11.it is where it came from. You cannot cheat.
:10:12. > :10:16.The audiences are very knowledgeable and found myself having to learn
:10:17. > :10:20.to sing better over there. Really?
:10:21. > :10:25.Oh, yes. So you deliberately
:10:26. > :10:28.changed the way he change? In France it was for about
:10:29. > :10:31.the lyrics and a more personal kind of charm whereas in America
:10:32. > :10:41.it is about really, really singing well.
:10:42. > :10:49.And you obviously by then could sing in French as well as English
:10:50. > :10:57.and you have this French experience behind you but you were actually
:10:58. > :11:01.in the mid-60s in the US part of that Brit invasion.
:11:02. > :11:05.The Beatles were making it big. Other bands were cracking America
:11:06. > :11:09.and you came along and you had a massive number one
:11:10. > :11:12.hit quite quickly? Yes, Downtown by then we went
:11:13. > :11:14.on to have many after that but downtown was the
:11:15. > :11:19.beginning of that. Thank you for queueing up.
:11:20. > :11:25.Perhaps your best known song of all, Downtown, which you performed just
:11:26. > :11:29.after it was was aa single. This is you in an American TVs
:11:30. > :11:35.to view in 1965 stopper if you know some legal places to go...
:11:36. > :11:37.# Downtown. Just listen to the music of the traffic in the city
:11:38. > :11:41.Linger on the sidewalk where the neon signs are pretty
:11:42. > :11:44.How can you lose? The lights are much brighter
:11:45. > :11:48.there You can forget all your troubles,
:11:49. > :11:52.forget all your cares So go downtown, things'll
:11:53. > :11:55.be great when you're Downtown, no finer place for sure
:11:56. > :12:06.Downtown everything's waiting for you Downtown.
:12:07. > :12:16.It is such a pleasure to watch. That song I can beat you you could
:12:17. > :12:19.go to any city in the world and start humming that song and
:12:20. > :12:24.people would join in. It is a brilliant pop song.
:12:25. > :12:28.It is, it's a great song and of course I still sing it
:12:29. > :12:33.on stage and as soon as they hear introduction on the piano, we are.
:12:34. > :12:36.-- we are off. Tony Hatch, who wrote it and gave it to you,
:12:37. > :12:38.did you just think as soon as you heard it, this
:12:39. > :12:41.is an extraordinary song? I loved it from the first
:12:42. > :12:45.minute I heard it. The first time I heard it he played
:12:46. > :12:48.it on the piano for me in my apartment in Paris
:12:49. > :12:51.and we did not know it was in a sound like that.
:12:52. > :12:54.Of course, when we went into the studio a couple of weeks
:12:55. > :12:56.later, and heard that orchestra, it was so thrilling.
:12:57. > :13:00.Tony's orchestrations were wonderful as well.
:13:01. > :13:14.It was not just a song, it was me, the whole thing around.
:13:15. > :13:18.The other thing that strikes me and I dare say might strike
:13:19. > :13:20.a lot of people watching, there was something wonderfully
:13:21. > :13:23.demure and innocent about the way you sang the song.
:13:24. > :13:27.There were no tricks and goodness, we are so used out the female stars
:13:28. > :13:30.sort of, how can I put it... Taking their clothes off?
:13:31. > :13:32.That is part of it. The way people present pop music
:13:33. > :13:37.is so very different. Yes.
:13:38. > :13:46.When you look at that now, did you feel, goodness,
:13:47. > :13:52.that was rather prim and proper or do you think that's wonderful
:13:53. > :13:55.because it allows you to focus on the song and voice?
:13:56. > :13:58.The Stones, the Beatles, all of them and it was all a bit
:13:59. > :14:01.kind of rock 'n' roll. I was sort of reassuring
:14:02. > :14:03.for the parents as well. This is a nice lady
:14:04. > :14:07.singing pop songs so, yes, I was sort of like the big
:14:08. > :14:11.Sister, if you like. You had been in Paris and seen
:14:12. > :14:15.what passion and sexiness can do to a song and yet, you still have
:14:16. > :14:16.that Big Sister thing going on. Was it because it work
:14:17. > :14:28.for you or was it your temperament? That is just the way it came out.
:14:29. > :14:33.There was no agenda with me. If a song requires some kind of sexual
:14:34. > :14:40.something, then I will give it that. Don't sleep in the subway is a far
:14:41. > :14:46.more sexy song. I don't know what I am trying to say here, but each
:14:47. > :14:50.song, when I sing a song, there is a kind of movie going on in my mind.
:14:51. > :14:54.It is different each time. Another one which intrigues me and is very
:14:55. > :14:58.much to do with the era we are talking about, mid to late 1960s,
:14:59. > :15:02.there was a lot going on across the world, in the United States there
:15:03. > :15:04.was the civil rights movement, there were social unrest in many cities.
:15:05. > :15:14.There was an extraordinary moment for you in a television studio with
:15:15. > :15:20.the black songwriter and singer Harry Belafonte. You were friends of
:15:21. > :15:23.his, you perform together on a TV show and as I understand that you
:15:24. > :15:27.touched him, in a sympathetic, nice way and you were singing together.
:15:28. > :15:31.And some of the advertisers on that particular TV show said we want that
:15:32. > :15:35.cut, we don't want that particular... Yes, the sponsor
:15:36. > :15:39.didn't want that, I don't want my start touching the black man. I
:15:40. > :15:43.didn't know that we, Harry and I, we couldn't hear that. We were in the
:15:44. > :15:46.studio and this was happening in the sponsor's box, up near the
:15:47. > :15:52.director's box, and then everything went crazy, you know. So I had no
:15:53. > :15:56.idea what had happened, but my husband, who was executive producer,
:15:57. > :16:01.and my lawyer, were there, and took me downstairs to a place where this
:16:02. > :16:07.guy was watching the tapes, he was eating a sandwich, and my lawyer
:16:08. > :16:12.said we want you to erase these takes, and this is the one we want
:16:13. > :16:17.to go out. And the guy said, I can't do that. And you wanted to keep the
:16:18. > :16:21.one where you and Harry Belafonte touched. That was the one we wanted
:16:22. > :16:25.to go out, because that was the real one. Because that was the spirit of
:16:26. > :16:29.the soul of it. Exactly, and the poor guy had to press the button and
:16:30. > :16:34.erase the takes. So you got your way. Absolutely. In a sense that
:16:35. > :16:38.leads me to wonder if you feel as an art of the duty sometimes to be
:16:39. > :16:42.political or to make a statement if you feel something in the culture
:16:43. > :16:50.around it is going wrong, or is out of kilter,. Where are you, in terms
:16:51. > :16:55.of being political? Well, I don't get into politics and protest songs
:16:56. > :16:59.and all the rest of it. But that song you did with Harry Belafonte,
:17:00. > :17:04.it was a sort of anti-war song. Lie yes, it was an anti-war song and I
:17:05. > :17:07.had co-written it, and we both felt strongly about the subject. Of
:17:08. > :17:12.course, I didn't realise where I was going with this, you know. It was
:17:13. > :17:16.right in the middle of the civil rights movement, and I found myself
:17:17. > :17:22.in the middle of it, and it made headlines, and all the rest of it.
:17:23. > :17:28.But I had my pianist, my music director in the States, was black
:17:29. > :17:34.and was with me for 12 years. Our choreographer was black. I just
:17:35. > :17:37.didn't get it. Just makes me wonder, given that you sort of by accident
:17:38. > :17:43.ended up being involved in that sort of state and at that time... What I
:17:44. > :17:48.wasn't going to be pushed around. Know, so here is the thing. I know
:17:49. > :17:52.that you are going to go back to the United States later in the year and
:17:53. > :17:54.sing, and we have seen so many different performers, artists, movie
:17:55. > :17:58.stars and others, feel that they have the sort of use whatever
:17:59. > :18:01.platform they have got to speak out, some of them very clearly angry and
:18:02. > :18:11.upset about some of Donald Trump's odysseys. Errol Street, et cetera.
:18:12. > :18:18.Would you do that? -- Meryl Streep. Probably. Yes. If I felt that
:18:19. > :18:25.strongly, and if I felt that it would be some use. But I'm not sure
:18:26. > :18:28.that it is of any use, that is the thing that bothers me about it. It
:18:29. > :18:33.can sometimes look as if you are trying to make yourself look good.
:18:34. > :18:37.And I don't want that. Let me ask you about a different aspect of your
:18:38. > :18:42.long career, and that is, it is almost constant performing, touring,
:18:43. > :18:46.different countries, different cities. And in the middle of all of
:18:47. > :18:54.that you have managed to raise a family. You've got kids, and our
:18:55. > :18:58.grandchildren as well. Mm-hm. Out of has been to fulfil yourself both as
:18:59. > :19:03.an artist and performer and as a mother -- how tough has it been?
:19:04. > :19:08.Well, it hasn't been easy, I have to admit. And at the time when the
:19:09. > :19:12.children were young, I was right up there at the peak of my career. And
:19:13. > :19:18.as you say, I was all over the place. And the children came with us
:19:19. > :19:22.a lot, and in fact it was quite a good education for them, because
:19:23. > :19:27.they saw a loss of the world. And I have had this guilt thing hanging
:19:28. > :19:32.over me for years of not being the perfect mother, you know. But
:19:33. > :19:37.they... You know, we talk about it, I talk about it with my kids, and
:19:38. > :19:42.they say, come on, you know, it was fine, we are great. And they are
:19:43. > :19:47.great, they are great kids, they are great human beings. At the guilt was
:19:48. > :19:51.very real, was it? It is very difficult to do it all. I thought I
:19:52. > :19:56.was going to be Superwoman and have a career and the family, be a great
:19:57. > :20:01.wife, great mother. It ain't easy. But as you say, you have got great
:20:02. > :20:04.kids and you did have a great career. If you look back, would you
:20:05. > :20:09.have done anything differently? Care well, it was a copper mines. It was
:20:10. > :20:14.a copper miners from my family point of view and my career point of view
:20:15. > :20:18.-- compromise. I was never totally into my career or totally and my
:20:19. > :20:24.family, it is always a bit like this. Now that you look at the music
:20:25. > :20:32.industry today, and you are still in it, both recording and touring, is
:20:33. > :20:35.it an industry where you would have thought, if your children or
:20:36. > :20:39.grandchildren had wanted to go into it, as they grow up, do you think it
:20:40. > :20:43.is a healthy business to be an? Healthy? Well, I never discourage
:20:44. > :20:52.them or encourage them to go into it, and they saw from a very early
:20:53. > :20:56.age what it was, what it is. You know, it is not... We hear a lot
:20:57. > :21:06.about the glamour, we don't hear about the hard work, the axed, the
:21:07. > :21:10.pressure. -- tanks. They sought it, and I guess they decided it wasn't
:21:11. > :21:14.for them. I guess what they said at the beginning is true. It is hard to
:21:15. > :21:19.make it in the music business, but it is even harder to stay at the top
:21:20. > :21:23.of the music business, year after year after year. You have done it.
:21:24. > :21:28.It is a bit like trying to go up the down escalator. To stay in one place
:21:29. > :21:33.you have to keep walking. Yes. But you know, I have never really felt
:21:34. > :21:38.that, because I have always just done it for the pleasure. I have
:21:39. > :21:42.never had anyone behind me saying you've got to do it this way, you've
:21:43. > :21:46.got to change, because this is the way it is now. It has always been
:21:47. > :21:53.very organic. I failed, of course, from time to time, that I know. How
:21:54. > :22:04.do you mean failed? Well, you know, I haven't always got it right. You
:22:05. > :22:09.want to know how? I am intrigued. You know, I don't listen to my own
:22:10. > :22:13.records, but recently I had to because they are putting out a
:22:14. > :22:17.compilation. I was in agony, because I really don't like that. And then I
:22:18. > :22:21.found myself being quite fascinated by it, it I could hear myself going
:22:22. > :22:28.through different phases, trying different things, and really messing
:22:29. > :22:32.it up, I think. But you know, I was trying. You know, I was watching
:22:33. > :22:37.your face as we were watching the clip earlier of Downtown, and you
:22:38. > :22:41.had a smile on your face. And I think it was bringing something back
:22:42. > :22:44.to you, and it is not like you don't watch clips like that time and time
:22:45. > :22:48.again, because people always want to talk about particular songs in
:22:49. > :22:52.moments like Downtown, in the 60s. But do you ever get bored of
:22:53. > :22:57.reliving that, and singing that? Because people wanted on everytime
:22:58. > :23:02.you perform. No, I never get bored of singing all those great Tony
:23:03. > :23:07.Hatch songs. I love them. I recently did to hear in the UK, and it was a
:23:08. > :23:11.mixture of the great Tony Hatch songs, things from the shows, things
:23:12. > :23:17.from the movies that I have been in, and the new songs. And I enjoy
:23:18. > :23:22.singing the old ones as much as the new ones, and the audience actually
:23:23. > :23:26.enjoyed the new ones as much as the old ones, which is really
:23:27. > :23:31.gratifying. And you are determined to keep touring. I mean, it sounds
:23:32. > :23:37.as though there is no way you are going to stop. Well, all the time I
:23:38. > :23:43.asked do it, and people come to hear me, sure. And I mean, I loved doing
:23:44. > :23:48.the UK tour. I had a great band, I was back in England, the weather was
:23:49. > :23:52.gorgeous in October, everything looked beautiful, and I was singing
:23:53. > :23:58.for two hours every night. What is better than that? Well, the next two
:23:59. > :24:05.in the UK, I would love to be there. Be there, I would like that -- next
:24:06. > :24:07.tour. For now we have to end. Thank you very much for being on HARDtalk.
:24:08. > :24:27.Thank you. Thank you. It has been a bit of a mixed
:24:28. > :24:31.weekend, weatherwise. Temperatures have been slowly
:24:32. > :24:34.dipping down by a few degrees. This is how we ended
:24:35. > :24:37.the day in Studland, You can see the sunset over
:24:38. > :24:40.Poole Harbour there,