:00:00. > :00:15.Welcome to HARDtalk, with me, Zeinab Badawi.
:00:16. > :00:21.Amidst his pronouncement on foreign policy, Donald Trump has ratcheted
:00:22. > :00:26.up the rhetoric on Iran, calling the nuclear agreement with Tehran the
:00:27. > :00:30.worst deal ever negotiated. He has expanded US sanctions on Iran after
:00:31. > :00:35.it tested a missile in January. My guest is Iranian academic Mohammad
:00:36. > :00:40.Marandi, from Tehran, who supports the leadership in Iran. What is the
:00:41. > :00:43.Iranians are posture the response to criticism from Trump over its
:00:44. > :00:45.missile testing and Izzy ran fuelling terror and conflicts in the
:00:46. > :01:11.Middle East? Mohammad Marandi,
:01:12. > :01:21.welcome to HARDtalk. What does the Iranian leadership
:01:22. > :01:30.think of President Trump? Thank you for having me. I think that they are
:01:31. > :01:37.still watching with great interest. At the moment the Iranians have not
:01:38. > :01:44.made many comments about what is going on in the United States. In
:01:45. > :01:50.many ways they feel that Trump perhaps is not so bad for Iran, in
:01:51. > :01:56.the sense that he is not doing a good job so far with regards to the
:01:57. > :02:00.international community, he has problems with the EU, the head of
:02:01. > :02:07.the European Council has called him a threat to the EU, with the Mexican
:02:08. > :02:11.president, the Australian Prime Minister, he has problems with China
:02:12. > :02:16.and the list goes on. So he is not a person the Iranians believe will
:02:17. > :02:21.have an easy time building some sort of coalition against Iran, but at
:02:22. > :02:24.the same time because of the deep divisions at home in the United
:02:25. > :02:29.States many in Iran believe that it will be difficult for him to cause a
:02:30. > :02:35.great deal of trouble in the region, but it is still too early to say and
:02:36. > :02:39.we do not know him well. It's not too early to say that he has
:02:40. > :02:45.increased sanctions on Iran after you've tested a missile in January,
:02:46. > :02:50.in breach of a United Nations resolution. That surely marks a
:02:51. > :02:58.deterioration in relations between you? Well, the missile test was not
:02:59. > :03:05.in breach of the UN resolution. It was a conventional missile and it
:03:06. > :03:08.was a test and that has nothing to do with either the joint
:03:09. > :03:14.comprehensive plan of action, which is the agreement between Iran and
:03:15. > :03:21.the nuclear programme, and it has nothing to do with the resolution
:03:22. > :03:24.that was passed... Sorry, can I interrupted, because that's not what
:03:25. > :03:28.the American ambassador to the United Nations said. She said that
:03:29. > :03:31.Iran was believed to have tested a ballistic missile that is more than
:03:32. > :03:35.enough to be able to deliver a nuclear weapons and she added that
:03:36. > :03:41.was something the world should be alarmed about. Well, off cause
:03:42. > :03:48.that's what the Americans would say. But it's a conventional missile. The
:03:49. > :03:53.test is a routine test. All countries that have missile
:03:54. > :03:57.programmes test their missiles every now and then. It was nothing
:03:58. > :04:01.exceptional, but the Americans were looking for an excuse. After all,
:04:02. > :04:05.the reason why Iran has developed a missile defence programme is because
:04:06. > :04:09.of the constant threat that the US has been making over the decades, or
:04:10. > :04:15.options on the table is something we have seen from Obama, from Bush and
:04:16. > :04:18.from Clinton before him. It is obvious that the Iranians would
:04:19. > :04:22.develop defence capabilities and the reason why the United States has
:04:23. > :04:28.never attacked Iran is because it has powerful capabilities. What I
:04:29. > :04:32.would like to add that Obama too has violated the agreement before Trump,
:04:33. > :04:38.the new sanctions. After the signing of the agreement the United States
:04:39. > :04:44.expanded the sanctions regime. He passed this restriction laws, Mr
:04:45. > :04:48.Obama, he signed the law... We are talking about Trump, if you don't
:04:49. > :04:55.mind. Let's stick with... What saying is what Trump has done is not
:04:56. > :05:00.new. The fact is, what is new is there is concern that it marks a
:05:01. > :05:03.step upwards. Mark Fitzpatrick, the former US State Department official,
:05:04. > :05:08.extremely intimately involved with this issue and process behind the
:05:09. > :05:12.nuclear deal, it was signed in 2015 Whitby six world powers, he said in
:05:13. > :05:17.the middle of feathery, I think it is clear the nuclear deal is in
:05:18. > :05:21.jeopardy. Iran will be testing more missiles and so forth and within a
:05:22. > :05:28.year the deal will be under very severe pressure. Could that deal
:05:29. > :05:34.unravel? No, if it unravels it has to do with the US. I think the
:05:35. > :05:40.gentleman is trying to point his finger at the Iranians, where in
:05:41. > :05:46.fact it is the United States that is escalating the situation. According
:05:47. > :05:51.to the IAA, Iran has abided by its side of the agreement and has fully
:05:52. > :05:58.compliant with its side of the bargain. Whereas the United States
:05:59. > :06:03.hasn't. In fact, according to the agreement, the United States is not
:06:04. > :06:06.supposed to prohibit banks and other financial institutions from working
:06:07. > :06:11.with Iran. Yet the united dates continues to do so even until today.
:06:12. > :06:16.That is in violation of the agreement. Not all the sanctions
:06:17. > :06:20.were lifted at the result of the 2015 agreement, as you know, so they
:06:21. > :06:24.still pertain in some respects. Looking at it in a different way,
:06:25. > :06:28.President Trump has of course criticised the nuclear deal with
:06:29. > :06:32.Iran, but he has also said that in the Middle East you need to focus on
:06:33. > :06:35.so-called Islamic State fighters in Syria. That effectively puts the
:06:36. > :06:41.Americans on the same side as you, because you're fighting, you say,
:06:42. > :06:46.Islamic State fighters on the side of President Bashar al-Assad in
:06:47. > :06:54.Syria. To actually you are in the same camp. That remains to be seen.
:06:55. > :06:59.The United States has a history of supporting countries that supported
:07:00. > :07:07.Isis. We know from WikiLeaks that the United States new from the
:07:08. > :07:11.Clinton e-mails that Saudi Arabia and Qatar were finding Isis in 2014.
:07:12. > :07:16.We know from the defence intelligence agent E off 2012 that
:07:17. > :07:22.the United States back then you that the dominant force in Syria were the
:07:23. > :07:25.extremists and Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar were supporting them.
:07:26. > :07:30.According to General Flynn, who did an interview back then, the United
:07:31. > :07:34.States took a wilful decision to support these countries. So the US
:07:35. > :07:40.has been supporting these extremists indirectly and has also allowed to
:07:41. > :07:47.extensive oil trade with over 10,000 tankers with Isis... Sorry to
:07:48. > :07:51.interrupt you. The Turks have completely and vehemently denied
:07:52. > :07:55.that that is the case and of course the Saudis have also said they may
:07:56. > :08:00.have backed anti- aside forces in the early days of the civil war, but
:08:01. > :08:05.in no way did they wilfully go about trying to create what we now called
:08:06. > :08:12.Daesh or Islamic State. -- anti-Assad. I basically referring to
:08:13. > :08:16.defence intelligence agency documents, which is the most
:08:17. > :08:21.important pentagon in -- military intelligence Organisation and I am
:08:22. > :08:27.making reference to Hillary Clinton's e-mails. So this is not
:08:28. > :08:32.coming from the Iran. The tankers are something that the Russians took
:08:33. > :08:35.photos of before they began bombing them. The Americans never bombed
:08:36. > :08:40.them until the Russians began to do that. I would also like to point out
:08:41. > :08:44.that an Iranian reporter, or at least an American Lebanese reporter
:08:45. > :08:53.working for press TV, was murdered on the Turkish border when she
:08:54. > :09:00.reported that Turkey was using aid trucks, linked to the UN, to send in
:09:01. > :09:05.weapons and people into Syria. Turkey threatened to and she was
:09:06. > :09:09.murdered the next day. Of course you are very opposed to the Turkish
:09:10. > :09:15.government, because of course it's a sunny macro one. That is the whole
:09:16. > :09:20.point of Iran. -- Sunni. Wherever you have a Sunni power, be it Turkey
:09:21. > :09:29.or Saudi Arabia, you will take the other side. Another example, Yemen.
:09:30. > :09:32.In 2014 the Shia, Houthis, you backing them and the Saudi-led
:09:33. > :09:35.coalition backing of course the forces of the internationally
:09:36. > :09:40.recognised government, we have this civil war where the Iranians are
:09:41. > :09:45.arming the Houthi rebels with weapons, ammunition and training
:09:46. > :09:53.them. So you are fuelling conflict too. Well, I think that's an
:09:54. > :10:00.extraordinary, dangerous accusation. The government in Afghanistan is a
:10:01. > :10:06.Sunni government. The majority of the country is Sunni. Afghanistan
:10:07. > :10:11.has good relations with Iran but poor relations with Pakistan. In
:10:12. > :10:17.Iraq, when Isis was about to take Irbil, Kurdish - Iraqi territory,
:10:18. > :10:22.the Kurds there are predominantly Sunni. It was Iran that saved them
:10:23. > :10:33.from Isis and no one else. In Syria, the minority Christians, along with
:10:34. > :10:37.the Sufis and Sunnis, were being attacked by Isis. So I find it
:10:38. > :10:45.extraordinary that anyone could make such an accusation. I do not believe
:10:46. > :10:48.this groups represent Sunnis Islam. You were criticising the Turks and I
:10:49. > :10:54.was just giving you the counterpoint. The Turkish from --
:10:55. > :11:01.Foreign Minister says Iraq and Syria is trying to create a Shia... I did
:11:02. > :11:08.ask you about Yemen. That's not true! I was giving you documents
:11:09. > :11:12.that are American documents. Photos that were shown by the Russian
:11:13. > :11:24.government. But in the case of Yemen, what happened was that the
:11:25. > :11:27.sole candidate was imposed on the country in an election. He was
:11:28. > :11:32.supposed to be the transitional president for two years. After two
:11:33. > :11:36.years he refused to set aside -- Stepaside. Ultimately opposition
:11:37. > :11:41.groups went to the capital and ask the Houthis not to take the capital.
:11:42. > :11:46.This is well documented. But they felt they had to take the capital.
:11:47. > :11:49.He resigned and fled the city. Ultimately he fled the country.
:11:50. > :11:56.After two years of slaughter, where the Saudis bombed villages, towns,
:11:57. > :12:02.hospitals, funerals, schools, weddings... This is collateral
:12:03. > :12:07.damage. I will ask you my question again. But on thing, yes of course
:12:08. > :12:12.there have been terrible civilian deaths and they have been criticised
:12:13. > :12:16.internationally fire and wide. But they don't target civilians, they
:12:17. > :12:20.are targeting the Houthi rebels who sometimes are in civilian areas.
:12:21. > :12:27.Could you just answer this point, that whatever the background to
:12:28. > :12:34.this, and you mentioned the current president of an internationally
:12:35. > :12:40.recognised president, but the fact is Iran is supporting the Houthi
:12:41. > :12:47.rebels. Why are you doing that? You are prolonging a terrible conflict
:12:48. > :12:51.in this country. The Iranians are supporting the people who are being
:12:52. > :12:55.massacred and who have been under siege and the United States and
:12:56. > :13:01.Western countries, including the British government, has been giving
:13:02. > :13:08.the Sunnis weapons and cluster bombs the slaughter innocent civilians and
:13:09. > :13:11.the target have nothing to do with military targets. The siege is
:13:12. > :13:17.preventing food from getting in. The Americans have created starvation
:13:18. > :13:20.alongside the Saudis. Almost 20 million people. In Ethiopia once
:13:21. > :13:27.upon a time when people were dying because of the drought, in the world
:13:28. > :13:30.there was noise being made. Here they are intentionally making people
:13:31. > :13:35.starve. Western governments. But you are also complicit. The Iranians are
:13:36. > :13:42.also party to this conflict. The main port in Yemen, it which is in
:13:43. > :13:46.the hands of the Houthi rebels, where we are not seeing enough aid
:13:47. > :13:53.going through and you are right 21 or 25 million people in Yemen, the
:13:54. > :13:57.total copulation is 25 million, are in dire need of food aid and there's
:13:58. > :14:01.now a famine alert that is being sounded. But you are also involved
:14:02. > :14:05.in this conflict, so you must share some of this blame.
:14:06. > :14:13.Of course not. The country is surrounded. These people are being
:14:14. > :14:21.massacred and they use aromas and excuse in order to justify this
:14:22. > :14:25.massacre. History will show what Obama and Western governments have
:14:26. > :14:29.done in Yemen. These are crimes against humanity and will never be
:14:30. > :14:33.forgiven. They are surrounded by the Saudis. They are surrounded by the
:14:34. > :14:42.Americans. How can the Iranians... You know that weapons are being
:14:43. > :14:45.smuggled. I will tell you what the Ambassador to the United Nations of
:14:46. > :14:49.Yemen said. He said Houthi me troubles have launched Lustig
:14:50. > :14:57.missiles in an industry that matter. -- he said Houthi rebels. --
:14:58. > :15:03.ballistic missile. He says the kind of missiles used were many fractured
:15:04. > :15:08.in a run. And that is according to a United Nations committee of experts
:15:09. > :15:22.on Yemen. A UN committee of experts. CHEERING Really? Yes. -- really? Are
:15:23. > :15:26.you talking about the same United Nations that puts Saudi Arabia on a
:15:27. > :15:31.blacklist and removed it in four days. Budgie Byrne was forced to
:15:32. > :15:42.admit his shame. When you say that run cannot get equipment... --
:15:43. > :15:47.Ban-Ki Moon. This person is not presented live off the Iranians it
:15:48. > :15:51.will. He works in the Saudis. The reason they have failed to take the
:15:52. > :15:54.capital of Yemen is not because of some sectoral group. It is because
:15:55. > :15:59.they have failed against the will of the Yemeni people. And the many
:16:00. > :16:02.people are being sacrificed and murdered because Western countries
:16:03. > :16:05.are on the side of the Saudis, because of their money, because of
:16:06. > :16:12.their alliance with the Saudi regime. The Saudis are, by the way,
:16:13. > :16:21.just like in Syria... I entered your question! That gentleman has... It
:16:22. > :16:25.is not that gentleman. A committee said that these missiles are being
:16:26. > :16:31.used in Yemen. I said that there are up to the sources, Western diplomat
:16:32. > :16:37.saying this. I don't know where the missiles come from, but I can say
:16:38. > :16:42.that whatever weapons being used by the Yemeni army against the Saudis
:16:43. > :16:47.is incomparable to the weapons that the Saudis have been using with the
:16:48. > :16:50.help of your government, with the help of the United States, and with
:16:51. > :16:54.the help of the French government. And B are crimes against humanity.
:16:55. > :17:02.Forcing people into hunger is unjustifiable. Unjustifiable! Nobody
:17:03. > :17:13.is... And the mainstream media sizes criminals! We are talking about it
:17:14. > :17:16.right now. The fact is you are backing one side in a terrible civil
:17:17. > :17:21.war where the people are suffering in the Manny beat you have
:17:22. > :17:24.described, and I am putting it to you that your country, you support
:17:25. > :17:31.the leadership, and they are party to this conflict. -- manner. They
:17:32. > :17:36.are therefore complicit. You have talked a lot about Saudi Arabia. It
:17:37. > :17:44.is very apparent that there is this animosity between a run and Saudi
:17:45. > :17:49.Arabia to the extent that now we see Washington... No it is between
:17:50. > :17:55.Washington and the United States -- arrive in the United States. The
:17:56. > :18:02.United States is now trying to... The United so Bates has supported.
:18:03. > :18:12.The United States is now trying to attract key allies, it stays, Egypt,
:18:13. > :18:19.Jordan, who has a peace treaty with Jordan. Surely you must be some kind
:18:20. > :18:24.of isolation now in your region. -- fear. Of course not. These family
:18:25. > :18:27.oil rich dictatorships have always been on the side of the United
:18:28. > :18:33.States. They have always been an ally of the apartheid regime of
:18:34. > :18:37.Israel. The fact on the ground is, though, contrary to what saying, the
:18:38. > :18:45.people in Yemen have been able to push back the Saudi onslaught
:18:46. > :18:48.because they do not accept Saudi and Germany. The people in a run have
:18:49. > :18:58.been supporting the victims, whether it is in Gaza, it Yemen... The
:18:59. > :19:06.destruction in Gaza are also suspect is their fault. -- Saudi oil
:19:07. > :19:10.hegemony. They then invaded Iraq and Afghanistan. What the Americans are
:19:11. > :19:13.doing this region is a repetition of what they did in the 1980s in
:19:14. > :19:24.Afghanistan, but on a greater scale. We have that message. That you think
:19:25. > :19:32.that this is not fuelling conflicts, you are not fuelling conflict. It
:19:33. > :19:36.wasn't for a run, there would be black flags in Damascus today. And
:19:37. > :19:47.if Syria had fallen, Iraq was on the verge of falling. A run stopped Al
:19:48. > :19:56.Qaeda or ISIL from taking it. It was a run that prevented this. -- Iran.
:19:57. > :20:01.Contrary to the Western narrative, a figure reported to have been to
:20:02. > :20:08.Syria know that the people of Syria do not prefer the so-called
:20:09. > :20:13.moderates that the UN vice president said did not exist. They do not like
:20:14. > :20:19.those so-called moderates over the three government. At a run spends
:20:20. > :20:23.about $1 billion a year supporting the Shah al-Assad in Syria. You
:20:24. > :20:27.spend so bit like $800 million supporting has Bhilai and other
:20:28. > :20:32.non-, and various other interventions. Wouldn't that money
:20:33. > :20:39.be better spent on developing a run? You have 30% unemployment. -- Iran.
:20:40. > :20:46.You should look your own people and deliver to their needs. I don't have
:20:47. > :20:50.much money Iran spends on Syria all other non-, but if Iran had not
:20:51. > :20:55.supported Syria and the people 11 on, we would not have a Syria today,
:20:56. > :21:00.and we would not have a 11 on. And will probably not have an Iraq. But
:21:01. > :21:04.what about your own people? Will then how people would have to be
:21:05. > :21:07.fighting Isis inside Iran. If these countries had fallen, we would have
:21:08. > :21:14.two fight Isis inside a run. So it is not only our responsibility to
:21:15. > :21:17.resist the irresponsible behaviour of Western countries by funding
:21:18. > :21:22.extremists and allowing them to grow for the sake of the people of Syria
:21:23. > :21:26.and Iraq. -- inside Iran. But also for the sake of the Iranians people.
:21:27. > :21:31.If we had not prevented the spread of this disease, then we right now
:21:32. > :21:36.today would not have security, either. How well with this plague is
:21:37. > :21:42.the background of the presidential elections due this may in
:21:43. > :22:00.-- this May in Iran. What is your view on this? I don't know. I don't
:22:01. > :22:04.know what is go to happen in the election. I don't think it is going
:22:05. > :22:13.to have any major change with regards to the original policy in
:22:14. > :22:17.Iran or in regard to Iran's ongoing choices. Whoever is the next
:22:18. > :22:23.president in Iran will abide by the agreement. Many people in Iran think
:22:24. > :22:27.it is not a good deal and many figures a good deal. Many people
:22:28. > :22:31.begin disarming between. But it is something that the Iranians agree
:22:32. > :22:35.to. But what is interesting is whether or not present Rye Hunt is
:22:36. > :22:39.re-elected, which I think will depend on the economy more than
:22:40. > :22:43.anything else, at least we have elections in Iraq. At least we do
:22:44. > :22:49.not know who is going to be elected. Your good allies in the region, we
:22:50. > :22:54.never well who going to be in charge in the coming months or years. This
:22:55. > :23:00.in other digital regimes. -- President Hassan Rouhani. But you
:23:01. > :23:08.have had the same leader, the supreme leader... You have seen
:23:09. > :23:14.Ayatollah Khamenei re-elected. He is now in his mid to late 70s. That
:23:15. > :23:18.does not sound very democratic, does it? The constraints on a
:23:19. > :23:24.democratically elected president. The leader, he is elected by a
:23:25. > :23:32.council which is itself elected. And that council can remove the leader
:23:33. > :23:39.whenever... That council is elected by the people. That is democratic.
:23:40. > :23:47.How long have you been in power? You have had to supreme leader is... The
:23:48. > :23:51.state of democracy in the rest of the world, like the United States,
:23:52. > :23:56.is not done well. I think now is not the time to start attacking a run.
:23:57. > :24:02.No, I was saying that since the revolution in 1979, you have had
:24:03. > :24:08.only two leaders. And that is not look particularly Democrat. The
:24:09. > :24:12.final word is yours. That is fine. The council that Alexa leader can
:24:13. > :24:22.remove him. If they think he's a good job, he remains. -- elected
:24:23. > :24:27.leader. Thank you for joining us on HARDtalk.