:00:00. > :00:00.And the Daily Mail takes up that issue too -
:00:00. > :00:00.claiming tens of thousands of crime suspects are on the loose
:00:07. > :00:10.Welcome to HARDtalk, I'm Stephen Sackur.
:00:11. > :00:13.For years, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been stuck,
:00:14. > :00:15.condemned to repeat itself year in, year out.
:00:16. > :00:21.The two protagonists remain deaf to each other's demands,
:00:22. > :00:24.but there is a new US president, who seems to care little
:00:25. > :00:27.for Washington's long established quest for a two state solution.
:00:28. > :00:31.Well, my guess is Husam Zomlot, adviser to the Palestinian authority
:00:32. > :00:44.Does the Trump era signal the end for the Palestinian
:00:45. > :01:15.Husam Zomlot in Ramallah, welcome to HARDtalk.
:01:16. > :01:21.Thank you, Stephen, thank you for having me.
:01:22. > :01:24.Mr Zomlot, you are relatively young for a senior figure
:01:25. > :01:31.Most of your adult life you have lived with the Oslo peace process.
:01:32. > :01:35.Are you prepared to acknowledge today that for all intents
:01:36. > :01:38.and purposes, that notion of an Oslo peace process is dead?
:01:39. > :01:40.First of all, thank you for the compliment,
:01:41. > :01:46.Believe me, when it comes to the Palestinian authority,
:01:47. > :01:52.Your leader's 81, most of your senior officials are in their 70s.
:01:53. > :01:55.I understand your relative theory, but I also witnessed the Oslo
:01:56. > :02:02.Witnessed the demise of the implementation
:02:03. > :02:06.I think, if you are talking about the process itself, yes,
:02:07. > :02:19.All along, since 1997, we should have had a state
:02:20. > :02:21.according to the Oslo accord, Israel should have withdrawn
:02:22. > :02:23.from all the territories it occupied in 1967.
:02:24. > :02:26.In fact, what happened ever after was the deepening
:02:27. > :02:29.of the occupation and the spread of the colonial settlements
:02:30. > :02:32.and the besiegement of the people in Gaza and what have you.
:02:33. > :02:35.You are right, the process has failed miserably to deliver
:02:36. > :02:38.the outcome and to many, many people, it was a process
:02:39. > :02:40.actually designed to prevent the outcome, process
:02:41. > :02:41.that was going in the opposite direction.
:02:42. > :02:47.But the hope and the aspiration and the goal of two states,
:02:48. > :02:50.a state of Palestine under the 1967 borders, the hoped-for two states
:02:51. > :02:54.that live in coexistence and peace with each other and form a bridge
:02:55. > :02:57.between East and West, is a hope that remains very firm
:02:58. > :02:59.in the hearts of the millions of Palestinians and Israelis
:03:00. > :03:01.and remains to receive the international consensus,
:03:02. > :03:04.has been seen in the last UN Security Council resolution
:03:05. > :03:09.But you can't hold onto hopes that are unrealistic, that's not
:03:10. > :03:19.If Oslo and that means of getting to a two-state solution is dead,
:03:20. > :03:32.maybe you should regard it as a healthy tonic, in a way,
:03:33. > :03:34.that America's new president Donald Trump said, and of course
:03:35. > :03:38.you know these words well, he said, "I'm looking at a two-state
:03:39. > :03:42.And I like the one that both parties like.
:03:43. > :03:46.So in other words, we now have a new situation.
:03:47. > :03:50.We have an American president who, first of all, doesn't seem to care
:03:51. > :03:52.very much about what happens in Israel, Palestine.
:03:53. > :03:55.And simply leaves it to the parties to get on with it.
:03:56. > :03:58.He doesn't care if there's a two state or not.
:03:59. > :04:01.In fact, he'd take a one-state solution?
:04:02. > :04:03.Stephen, we'd like to hear from President Trump
:04:04. > :04:06.what he exactly means by one state solution, really.
:04:07. > :04:09.This is rather interesting, we want to listen to this proposition.
:04:10. > :04:12.All what we had is this one sentence and this is in complete
:04:13. > :04:15.Our future hangs on this one sentence.
:04:16. > :04:17.The PLO official, the Palestine Liberation Organisation official
:04:18. > :04:25.platform, until 1988 was one Democratic state for
:04:26. > :04:28.all of its citizens, in the historic land of Palestine
:04:29. > :04:31.But that platform had to be compromised simply
:04:32. > :04:34.because there was a condition by the international community.
:04:35. > :04:36.In fact, by the Reagan administration on the PLO
:04:37. > :04:39.that we must abandon our dream of a one Democratic state,
:04:40. > :04:42.diverse and respecting the rule of law for all of its citizens
:04:43. > :05:02.And we did respect that condition and we endorsed
:05:03. > :05:04.the two state solution, according to the US
:05:05. > :05:05.and international requirements for peace.
:05:06. > :05:09.And you know, it took us so many years to get to that national
:05:10. > :05:12.equilibrium here in Palestine to establish a national consensus
:05:13. > :05:14.on the two state solution and on accepting and recognising
:05:15. > :05:29.Before we jump into another conclusion, we have too
:05:30. > :05:33.The one state solution was always a nonstarter in Israel.
:05:34. > :05:35.Israel has totally, utterly rejected such a proposition.
:05:36. > :05:39.I'm going to stop you because you are raising
:05:40. > :05:41.ceremony different points, all of which are important
:05:42. > :05:43.about internal politics in Palestine, because you claim
:05:44. > :05:46.you reached a consensus, which of course you haven't,
:05:47. > :05:49.because that's why Gaza and the West Bank are so deeply
:05:50. > :05:51.divided politically, so we'll get to that later.
:05:52. > :05:54.But one thing at a time, let's stick with Trump,
:05:55. > :05:56.because he is the new actor in all of this.
:05:57. > :06:00.You are about to go to Washington to be the new Palestinian ambassador
:06:01. > :06:02.in the United States, representative in the United States.
:06:03. > :06:04.The chief Palestinian negotiator said the other day,
:06:05. > :06:07.nobody in Washington will talk to you Palestinians.
:06:08. > :06:09.He said we've sent letters, written them messages,
:06:10. > :06:11.they don't even bother to respond to us.
:06:12. > :06:15.That must worry you that the Trump team do not seem to be interested
:06:16. > :06:22.OK, maybe that statement came out before we actually did have
:06:23. > :06:23.communication with the Trump Administration.
:06:24. > :06:25.There was a very senior Palestinian official delegation visiting
:06:26. > :06:28.Washington only a few weeks ago at the top level.
:06:29. > :06:30.And there was also very senior American delegation
:06:31. > :06:33.from the new Administration, one of the closest associates
:06:34. > :06:45.You are telling me, oh yes, don't worry, we've got the contacts.
:06:46. > :06:48.Look, the truth is Binyamin Netanyahu has already had a very
:06:49. > :06:51.cosy meeting with Donald Trump at the White House.
:06:52. > :06:54.Just tell me, what's the extent of the direct personal contact
:06:55. > :06:55.between Mahmoud Abbas and Donald Trump?
:06:56. > :06:58.This is a new Administration, Steve and this new Administration,
:06:59. > :07:02.by the way, is still in the making, it's not even completed yet.
:07:03. > :07:04.This Administration also has no fully fledged policy,
:07:05. > :07:10.it's not really formed its policy about Israel, Palestine...
:07:11. > :07:13.I just asked you a direct question, what is the direct answer?
:07:14. > :07:18.The direct answer, we expect a relationship and we expect to be
:07:19. > :07:21.invited to the White House and the State Department,
:07:22. > :07:25.We have been a close partner of the US for many, many years.
:07:26. > :07:27.The long held US policy is very well-known.
:07:28. > :07:31.The huge investment the US has made with us and our investment
:07:32. > :07:34.towards this relative stability is something neither us nor the US
:07:35. > :07:36.is willing to forego and therefore we do expect that.
:07:37. > :07:40.We're not the exception, by the way, we are the rule here.
:07:41. > :07:43.Let me say this sentence, most of all leaders did not
:07:44. > :07:45.have the chance to talk to President Trump.
:07:46. > :07:48.Binyamin Netanyahu was the exception there and Binyamin Netanyahu misused
:07:49. > :07:51.that one ear that was given to him and misinformed the American
:07:52. > :07:53.president he wanted to legitimise his illegal settlement activities.
:07:54. > :07:57.He did not get that and it was clear that President Trump
:07:58. > :07:59.asked him to back off, to stop his settlement activities.
:08:00. > :08:02.He wanted President Trump to announce the abandonment
:08:03. > :08:08.And all that President Trump said, that he's fine with the two
:08:09. > :08:10.solutions and we want to hear from him more.
:08:11. > :08:12.And thirdly, he wanted President Trump to announce
:08:13. > :08:15.the moving of the embassy to Jerusalem from Tel
:08:16. > :08:21.Yet, we still have a second year of President Trump and we very much
:08:22. > :08:24.look forward to giving him the reality, the truth and the logic
:08:25. > :08:30.All I can say is, you do seem to me to be a wild optimist,
:08:31. > :08:33.because you seem to think the Americans are in listening mode
:08:34. > :08:38.You just touched upon a very important point, the US Embassy,
:08:39. > :08:41.currently, of course in Tel Aviv, as all international embassies are.
:08:42. > :08:44.Now, Donald Trump has made it plain he will seriously consider the idea
:08:45. > :08:48.of moving that embassy to Jerusalem, even though it seems to have been
:08:49. > :08:54.But, what we do know for sure is the man picked to be the next US
:08:55. > :08:56.Ambassador to Yemen Israel, David Friedman, not only intends
:08:57. > :08:59.to work out of Jerusalem, he's that very plain,
:09:00. > :09:02.he has a house in Jerusalem, he's also very closely tied
:09:03. > :09:06.to the settler movement and sits on the board of one of the NGOs that
:09:07. > :09:09.backs one of the settler blocks in the West Bank.
:09:10. > :09:12.And he's going to be the next US Ambassador in Israel.
:09:13. > :09:15.So, when you go to Washington and you think you can reach out
:09:16. > :09:18.to the Trump Administration, it's going to be awfully
:09:19. > :09:40.We realise all what you are saying and we are worried, indeed
:09:41. > :09:44.we are worried about some of these signals.
:09:45. > :09:47.But we might not be the strongest party in this world,
:09:48. > :09:49.definitely as Palestinians, but we are certainly the strongest
:09:50. > :10:11.President Trump has already said he is seeking the ultimate deal
:10:12. > :10:13.and he even continued saying, for the sake of humanity,
:10:14. > :10:16.and he even said there are two sides to this.
:10:17. > :10:20.Having said there are two sides to this, having said there is little
:10:21. > :10:22.land left for the Palestinians, that is President Trump
:10:23. > :10:25.we are waiting to give him the other side of the story,
:10:26. > :10:27.that's number one, it's very logical.
:10:28. > :10:30.Number two, because we are invested in peace and because we have heavily
:10:31. > :10:33.maintained the situation at the expense of our own
:10:34. > :10:37.And because the US knows that, we are actually the ultimate
:10:38. > :10:39.partners, if he is seeking the ultimate deal.
:10:40. > :10:42.And there will be in no deal without us and yes,
:10:43. > :10:45.this is not being optimistic, this is being realistic
:10:46. > :10:49.For instance, about the embassy, we did formally, in a letter
:10:50. > :10:52.by the President, President Abbas, send to President Trump outlining
:10:53. > :10:55.the danger of such a move, how destructive it would be
:10:56. > :11:01.So we're not sitting still, we are waiting, we are preparing,
:11:02. > :11:05.we are engaging and we would like to have the best case scenario.
:11:06. > :11:07.But should the worst case scenario happen,
:11:08. > :11:10.we are also here to make sure our issue remains to be
:11:11. > :11:12.respected as an international consensus and our rights enshrined
:11:13. > :11:15.Yes, we are not existentially worried.
:11:16. > :11:18.OK, you are not existentially worried, but let's stop talking
:11:19. > :11:20.about Trump for a moment and talk about your strategy,
:11:21. > :11:28.And I think most Israelis, as well as people around the world,
:11:29. > :11:30.are recognising this is one of the most right-wing governments
:11:31. > :11:33.in Israel's history, if not the most right wing.
:11:34. > :11:35.Your boss, Mahmoud Abbas, said many weeks ago,
:11:36. > :11:38.he said if Israel pushes ahead with this legislation
:11:39. > :11:40.to legalise settlements built on private Palestinian land,
:11:41. > :11:44.then he would cut security cooperation with Israel.
:11:45. > :11:49.Well of course, that Bill has now passed and as far as I can see it,
:11:50. > :11:52.Mahmoud Abbas has no intention of making good on that threat,
:11:53. > :12:08.No, you are missing something because I think that decision
:12:09. > :12:11.was made, and it was even made by the PLO Central Council,
:12:12. > :12:15.and now it has been approved by this very legitimate sort of Parliament
:12:16. > :12:17.for all Palestinians for the executive branch
:12:18. > :12:23.Remember, Steve, the issue of security is not just an Israeli
:12:24. > :12:26.demand, it's not just an Israeli interest, it also Palestinian
:12:27. > :12:30.interest and we don't want to see a situation here where we have
:12:31. > :12:33.groups and agencies from all over the region, and you know
:12:34. > :12:36.what is happening around us, just 300 kilometres all around
:12:37. > :12:42.and we want to make sure we deliver such a policy at the right time.
:12:43. > :12:48.Forgive the interruption, but if I may tease out what you seem
:12:49. > :12:53.to have just said to me, your priority is more in keeping
:12:54. > :12:56.a lid on Hamas in the West Bank than it is on ending security
:12:57. > :13:06.Hamas is in Gaza and is in full control of Gaza.
:13:07. > :13:11.No, but it is the West Bank we are talking about,
:13:12. > :13:14.you need the Israeli security cooperation in the West Bank to help
:13:15. > :13:17.you keep yourselves, Fatah, on top in the West Bank,
:13:18. > :13:27.we don't want to be maximalist at this point in time,
:13:28. > :13:29.we want to make sure that while we retain position
:13:30. > :13:31.and keep our achievements, national achievements,
:13:32. > :13:35.Therefore, we will choose, the president will choose
:13:36. > :13:37.the right moment to end, not only security cooperation,
:13:38. > :13:39.but economic cooperation and reformulate our relationship
:13:40. > :13:47.Well, I want to talk economy just briefly, if I may?
:13:48. > :13:52.You say, yes, we will and security and economic
:13:53. > :13:58.I would put it to you, you can't afford to.
:13:59. > :14:01.First of all, you need the Israelis to hand over the customs
:14:02. > :14:04.and the border revenues that come to you through the Israelis.
:14:05. > :14:07.And if you lose those, you are in even worse
:14:08. > :14:09.economic circumstances than you are in right now.
:14:10. > :14:12.Also, the tens of thousands of Palestinians who either work
:14:13. > :14:15.inside Israel, on the other side of the green line, or frankly,
:14:16. > :14:17.let's be honest, thousands of Palestinians work on building
:14:18. > :14:20.sites and construction building the very Jewish settlements you say
:14:21. > :14:27.If you stop all of those people doing those jobs,
:14:28. > :14:37.If we are going to accept substitute liberation and independence
:14:38. > :14:40.of our own sovereignty, with pieces of bread being thrown
:14:41. > :14:43.on us by the Israeli occupation, the whole situation will continue.
:14:44. > :14:53.The socio-economic situation in the West Bank and Gaza is simply
:14:54. > :14:56.unprecedented in terms of how deteriorated it has been.
:14:57. > :14:58.All economic indicators show some sort of an economic,
:14:59. > :15:09.Let me give you some numbers very quickly,
:15:10. > :15:12.Because of us having to work in Israel, not
:15:13. > :15:16.Our population is around 12 .7 million.
:15:17. > :15:23.We have 95% literacy and we have 70% under the age of 29.
:15:24. > :15:25.This is a very useful, very educated society.
:15:26. > :15:27.And we have very wealthy, natural re-sources.
:15:28. > :15:31.Yet, our GDP, I am talking 2015, just quick numbers, is $12 billion,
:15:32. > :15:43.Our per capita is 2800 compared to 36,000...
:15:44. > :15:51.You don't have too persuade me that in terms of economic power,
:15:52. > :15:54.in terms of political and military leveraged, you Palestinians cannot
:15:55. > :16:01.Believe me, you don't have to persuade me of that.
:16:02. > :16:05.My question to you is, why do you fail to actually make
:16:06. > :16:09.For example, let's move on to talk about politics
:16:10. > :16:26.Why is it that President Mahmoud Abbas has so little credibility,
:16:27. > :16:29.a Palestinian opinion poll showed that the majority of
:16:30. > :16:34.He hasn't won an election for what is it, at least a decade.
:16:35. > :16:37.Most Palestinians see the Palestinian authority as corrupt.
:16:38. > :16:41.Well, I can understand there is a need to renew
:16:42. > :16:45.In fact, as we speak now, the government has confirmed
:16:46. > :16:48.the date of the local government elections, which is a very important
:16:49. > :17:02.We want to respect our own election process and its duration.
:17:03. > :17:07.Now, for the President, you know he was elected
:17:08. > :17:11.democratically and we are one of the very few nations in this
:17:12. > :17:13.region that really do adhere to the democratic processes.
:17:14. > :17:15.Forgive me, when you're mandate lasts for years,
:17:16. > :17:18.when you're mandate lasts for years and it was achieved 13 years
:17:19. > :17:21.ago, you don't have any legitimacy any more.
:17:22. > :17:26.We do have legitimacy because President Abbas
:17:27. > :17:28.is the president of the PLO, of the Palestine Liberation
:17:29. > :17:32.Organisation, which is much higher, even than the PA.
:17:33. > :17:35.The PA was only established to fulfil our responsibilities
:17:36. > :17:37.under Oslo, which Israel has failed miserably.
:17:38. > :17:38.He does have the national legitimacy.
:17:39. > :17:45.The question is, does he want elections?
:17:46. > :17:53.I can assure you, in his name now, should he decide to run this
:17:54. > :17:57.Forget about the polls and these agendas you have quoted,
:17:58. > :18:00.in the end he was voted by Fatah only two months ago
:18:01. > :18:05.Hang on, you've just said something outrageous.
:18:06. > :18:12.You asked me a question, Stephen, let me answer it.
:18:13. > :18:14.Fatah is the biggest, according to all polls,
:18:15. > :18:17.Fatah is the biggest Palestinian political party.
:18:18. > :18:22.It receives more than 35% in all opinion polls.
:18:23. > :18:24.Should Fatah nominate Mahmoud Abbas to represent it
:18:25. > :18:26.in any national elections, I see you, president Abbas
:18:27. > :18:35.Congratulations, you've just told me to ignore opinion polls
:18:36. > :18:38.and you proceeded to quote me an opinion poll.
:18:39. > :18:42.So let me quote you an opinion poll in return, from a leading
:18:43. > :18:44.Palestinian polling organisation, they matched Mahmoud Abbas
:18:45. > :18:48.against Ismail Haniyeh from Hamas in a head-to-head race at the end
:18:49. > :18:53.of last year, they asked Palestinians across the territories,
:18:54. > :18:56.Gaza and West Bank who they'd vote for and you know what,
:18:57. > :18:59.by a couple of percentage points, Haniyeh came out on top.
:19:00. > :19:04.No, no, we're not worried and we don't know did the polling.
:19:05. > :19:12.Should Fatah decide, we know the numbers,
:19:13. > :19:21.The Gaza, I went to only a few days ago.
:19:22. > :19:30.You know, it showed a very clear message to me personally,
:19:31. > :19:33.that they would like Fatah and president Abbas and the National
:19:34. > :19:36.What they've suffered from in the last decade
:19:37. > :19:39.Their only destination is a united Palestinian front.
:19:40. > :19:43.Only three years ago we completed a celebration of Fatah in Gaza.
:19:44. > :19:46.1 million took to the streets, 70% of Gaza, it is recorded
:19:47. > :19:49.in an all international media, if you want to follow it.
:19:50. > :19:51.Now, president Bass decided not to convene national elections,
:19:52. > :19:54.elections for the president because he does not
:19:55. > :19:56.want to give a stamp of approval for the division.
:19:57. > :19:58.He does not want to institutionalise the division.
:19:59. > :20:01.He wants Hamas to accept the elections in Gaza,
:20:02. > :20:03.otherwise our national project would disappear and therefore
:20:04. > :20:05.what is important, what is more important?
:20:06. > :20:07.This is not fearing or overstaying the welcome
:20:08. > :20:12.I understand all the arguments you come up with.
:20:13. > :20:23.The one message I had from Gaza is we must convene election,
:20:24. > :20:25.invite Hamas to accept the local government elections.
:20:26. > :20:29.Invite them to accept the national elections and we are even willing
:20:30. > :20:32.to go in one joint list with Hamas, if Hamas fears to lose
:20:33. > :20:34.elections or fatter fears to lose their elections.
:20:35. > :20:38.That might be a bit more convincing to the outside world if fatter
:20:39. > :20:41.and that Palestinian authority in the West Bank didn't keep
:20:42. > :20:43.locking up opponents, didn't keep depriving people
:20:44. > :20:45.like Mohammed Dahlan, he is an opponent within the PLO...
:20:46. > :20:56.You know, Dahlan and his people say it's time for new leadership.
:20:57. > :21:00.You guys have refused to countenance new leadership
:21:01. > :21:05.Steve, we have politics here, believe me.
:21:06. > :21:10.And we have a partisan movements, history.
:21:11. > :21:13.This is not about individuals and names and this is not even
:21:14. > :21:17.People think we Palestinians can just you know, decide whatever
:21:18. > :21:21.There is so much to do in terms of our internal arena
:21:22. > :21:23.and the Palestinian people historically, would not accept
:21:24. > :21:25.the present without being elected by the people.
:21:26. > :21:29.There has to be elections and his own movement would have
:21:30. > :21:34.Final thing, we are almost out of time.
:21:35. > :21:38.You know what was interesting that came out of the Trump team recently,
:21:39. > :21:41.the US, UN ambassador, Nikki Haley, she said you know what,
:21:42. > :21:45.it is time for all sides in Israel, Palestine to think outside the box.
:21:46. > :21:48.In this interview, I feel we've gone through the same old issues that
:21:49. > :21:51.I've talked about with officials in Fatah and the PA
:21:52. > :22:02.Tell me one way in which Palestinians are thinking
:22:03. > :22:11.Well, thinking outside the box maybe happens in academia,
:22:12. > :22:14.but in our situation, given that calamity of the Israeli
:22:15. > :22:23.It's very clear, they want full annexation of the West Bank.
:22:24. > :22:26.This is not what I'm saying, this is what they are saying
:22:27. > :22:30.You've just quoted some of the bill is passed.
:22:31. > :22:33.We are witnessing on a daily basis here in the West Bank
:22:34. > :22:38.Now, if this is their agenda, by the way part of them pushing Gaza
:22:39. > :22:40.out of the equation, so there annexation
:22:41. > :22:45.And if this is the situation, the last thing you want is to give
:22:46. > :22:47.that agenda another whip in to advance.
:22:48. > :22:50.Steve, the whole situation here is that of a system of entitlement.
:22:51. > :22:52.These people, some people in Tel Aviv right now,
:22:53. > :22:54.the government, the right-wing extreme government, wants
:22:55. > :22:57.to keep a system whereby there is a group that our privilege,
:22:58. > :23:06.Some groups are privilege and others that are not privileged
:23:07. > :23:09.and discriminated whether by means of occupation or by means
:23:10. > :23:11.of colonisation or by means of apartheid.
:23:12. > :23:13.The question to the US ambassador in the UN,
:23:14. > :23:15.what does thinking out of the box mean?
:23:16. > :23:19.Thinking out of the box means that we will accept a one-man,
:23:20. > :23:21.one vote and there will be one Democratic state.
:23:22. > :23:24.We are happy to think about it and discuss it.
:23:25. > :23:26.Does this mean ending Israel's occupation and establishing
:23:27. > :23:32.We are happy to proceed with you as partners.
:23:33. > :23:35.But if this means we will continue being treated as slaves
:23:36. > :23:38.in our own land and we continue to put up again some people
:23:39. > :23:42.who argue that God is an estate agent and God chooses some people
:23:43. > :23:45.at the expense of others, if the whole thing is to greet us
:23:46. > :23:48.as visitors in our own land, we will continue to reject
:23:49. > :23:56.and struggle and continue to garner international support and national
:23:57. > :23:59.building, because we have invested so much to remain
:24:00. > :24:01.steadfast in our land and build our institutions, Steve.
:24:02. > :24:05.And at that point, we have to end this interview, we are out of time.
:24:06. > :24:35.But Husam Zomlot in Ramallah, thanks for being on HARDtalk.
:24:36. > :24:43.Well, a very blustery night out there for some of us,
:24:44. > :24:49.The weather is going to be quite changeable for the rest of the week
:24:50. > :24:53.and into the weekend, quite a bit of rough weather out there across the
:24:54. > :24:56.Atlantic, weather fronts making a beeline for the UK but Thursday
:24:57. > :24:57.actually overall