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0:00:08 > 0:00:10Hello, welcome to HARDtalk.
0:00:10 > 0:00:12I'm Shaun Ley.
0:00:12 > 0:00:19This Sunday, Emmanuel Macron takes office as President of France.
0:00:19 > 0:00:22His nascent political organisation promises to get France's sluggish
0:00:22 > 0:00:23economy on the move again.
0:00:23 > 0:00:26But only if, from nowhere, it can win legislative
0:00:26 > 0:00:28elections next month.
0:00:28 > 0:00:30Sylvie Goulard, a Liberal MEP frustrated by previous presidents'
0:00:30 > 0:00:32broken promises to reform, has thrown her support
0:00:32 > 0:00:35behind Mr Macron.
0:00:35 > 0:00:41Even if he gains enough assembly members to get his way,
0:00:41 > 0:00:43can a President Macron deliver and move France forward,
0:00:43 > 0:00:47when the Minister Macron he was just months ago could not?
0:01:12 > 0:01:15Sylvie Goulard, welcome to HARDtalk,
0:01:15 > 0:01:18joining us from Paris today for this interview.
0:01:18 > 0:01:21It's an important time for your country, one of the most
0:01:21 > 0:01:22important of recent years.
0:01:22 > 0:01:25Let me begin with the question of a mandate.
0:01:25 > 0:01:28Does Macron see his victory, do you believe,
0:01:28 > 0:01:32as a mandate to change France?
0:01:32 > 0:01:39Yes, of course he does.
0:01:39 > 0:01:41the government,
0:01:41 > 0:01:45because he is absolutely convinced, and so am I, that our country
0:01:45 > 0:01:50desperately needs reforms, and has also many assets to be
0:01:50 > 0:01:58in a better situation, to have more prosperity and more
0:01:58 > 0:02:01influence in Europe, in the world.
0:02:01 > 0:02:04He won 20 million votes in the second round last Sunday,
0:02:04 > 0:02:08but how much of that was actually a positive vote for him
0:02:08 > 0:02:10and his vision for France?
0:02:10 > 0:02:14And how much of it was to simply stop Marine Le Pen?
0:02:15 > 0:02:18Well, in any case, we stopped Marine Le Pen,
0:02:18 > 0:02:22which is a piece of very good news.
0:02:23 > 0:02:26And it is not surprising that with the French electoral system,
0:02:26 > 0:02:30where you have two terms, in the first one you choose your
0:02:30 > 0:02:35favourite candidate, and in the second one you eliminate.
0:02:35 > 0:02:40We are perfectly aware that many people don't share
0:02:40 > 0:02:45completely his vision of the future.
0:02:45 > 0:02:49It will be our duty to convince them it is good for France but, in any
0:02:49 > 0:02:50case, he is the President-elect.
0:02:50 > 0:02:55I was interested by a survey conducted by Ipsos, the polling
0:02:55 > 0:02:58company for French state television, this week, in the wake
0:02:58 > 0:02:59of the election.
0:02:59 > 0:03:0243% of those who voted for Macron told pollsters that their main
0:03:02 > 0:03:06reason was to stop Marine Le Pen.
0:03:06 > 0:03:1233% said it was to renew France's political class.
0:03:12 > 0:03:18Only 16% said it was because they backed his programme, and mandate?
0:03:18 > 0:03:23If you remember the Bible, you don't need too much salt on this
0:03:23 > 0:03:25earth because if you have too much salt, it's not...
0:03:25 > 0:03:27I'm joking a little bit.
0:03:27 > 0:03:30Of course we hope that we can convince people but I want
0:03:30 > 0:03:35to underline that he made a very courageous campaign,
0:03:35 > 0:03:41campaigning for Europe, being pro-business and pro-trade,
0:03:41 > 0:03:43procompetition, being a French liberal, which is normally something
0:03:43 > 0:03:45that does not even exist.
0:03:45 > 0:03:49When I remember how many campaigns in other member states,
0:03:49 > 0:03:54even during Brexit, were just meant to tell to the people
0:03:54 > 0:04:04what they are expecting to hear, and not what is a result
0:04:04 > 0:04:07of a courageous analysis of the state of the world -
0:04:08 > 0:04:09I must say that I prefer this option.
0:04:09 > 0:04:12In any case, the fact that we defeated Marine Le Pen
0:04:13 > 0:04:15is also a major event for Europe and the world economy.
0:04:16 > 0:04:18It is certainly the case that Mr Macron's election broke records.
0:04:18 > 0:04:21The highest number registering they support neither candidate.
0:04:21 > 0:04:234 million of them, 11% voting, saying that -
0:04:23 > 0:04:27and the highest number not to turn up at all.
0:04:27 > 0:04:32A quarter of those on the electoral register.
0:04:32 > 0:04:35Take those categories out, and 66% of the vote is really only
0:04:35 > 0:04:3643% of French adults.
0:04:36 > 0:04:39For the kinds of reforms and radical changes that he says he wants
0:04:39 > 0:04:43to make, I wonder how confident he can be that that is anything more
0:04:43 > 0:04:48than cautious conditional support from the French?
0:04:48 > 0:04:53I wonder why you are so negative today?!
0:04:53 > 0:04:56Some weeks ago, the world press was afraid of having Marine Le Pen,
0:04:56 > 0:05:00at the top of France.
0:05:00 > 0:05:04We know that we have lots more expectations to meet,
0:05:04 > 0:05:09and lots of frustrations to hear.
0:05:09 > 0:05:15But once again, one of the nicest things in Emmanuel Macron's campaign
0:05:15 > 0:05:19was to be, for the first time, to give positive messages
0:05:19 > 0:05:22to the French people, to tell them that you can make it
0:05:23 > 0:05:25if you work hard.
0:05:25 > 0:05:28We want a society in which people who are unemployed can
0:05:28 > 0:05:31have a chance, where people with migrant backgrounds
0:05:31 > 0:05:36in the suburbs can have a future.
0:05:36 > 0:05:39And even if it is difficult, I really prefer this way of looking
0:05:39 > 0:05:43at the future than any of the other proposals that were on the table.
0:05:43 > 0:05:47I appreciate that you think I'm being negative,
0:05:47 > 0:05:51but I would suggest to you that this is a practical question.
0:05:51 > 0:05:54As you know far better than I would, the French system gives
0:05:54 > 0:05:57the president authority when he takes office over foreign
0:05:57 > 0:06:00affairs and defence this week.
0:06:00 > 0:06:03But he needs a majority in the National Assembly to get
0:06:03 > 0:06:05things done on the domestic stage.
0:06:05 > 0:06:09I wonder, having created a political movement almost overnight,
0:06:09 > 0:06:13how he is planning to achieve that?
0:06:13 > 0:06:16It is a very high and very challenging bar.
0:06:16 > 0:06:17You are perfectly right.
0:06:17 > 0:06:22The French constitution foresees on the one hand
0:06:22 > 0:06:25a very strong president, directly elected, but also
0:06:25 > 0:06:27a parliamentary system, the Prime Minister being responsible
0:06:27 > 0:06:31in the front of the house.
0:06:31 > 0:06:36Of course, the objective of En Marche is to get a majority
0:06:36 > 0:06:40in the election in June - as large as possible.
0:06:40 > 0:06:46But, to a certain extent, we should not underestimate one thing.
0:06:46 > 0:06:50The problem of the French political system is not Macron.
0:06:50 > 0:07:00It is the state in which the old parties have left it.
0:07:00 > 0:07:03In a nutshell, it's not the election of this president
0:07:03 > 0:07:05that is creating a mess.
0:07:05 > 0:07:09We had a mess before, we had Francois Hollande
0:07:10 > 0:07:13as a president that was not in a position, even if theoretically
0:07:13 > 0:07:17he had a majority in the parliament, he was not always in the position
0:07:17 > 0:07:21to have a majority on some of the very important
0:07:21 > 0:07:23pieces of legislation.
0:07:23 > 0:07:29For example, the reform of the labour market.
0:07:29 > 0:07:31Sorry to interrupt - but for our audience
0:07:31 > 0:07:34to be aware of this, it is one where Mr Macron's
0:07:34 > 0:07:36reforms had to be shoved through by the President
0:07:36 > 0:07:39because he could not persuade his own party to back
0:07:39 > 0:07:40them wholeheartedly.
0:07:40 > 0:07:43In a sense, it illustrates the kind of challenges the president
0:07:43 > 0:07:46will face when he is creating a political movement from nothing.
0:07:46 > 0:07:50Even if he wins a majority in June's elections,
0:07:50 > 0:07:54that will be hard enough, it will be made up of people
0:07:54 > 0:07:57who have not been bonded in this way over years of working together,
0:07:57 > 0:08:01who do not share a well-established ideology.
0:08:01 > 0:08:03So if they could not do it when they did,
0:08:03 > 0:08:07how will they do it when they don't?
0:08:07 > 0:08:10No, thanks God, I can tell you, being very often on the ground
0:08:10 > 0:08:13during the campaigns, the people who will be
0:08:13 > 0:08:17the candidates of En Marche really share a common vision,
0:08:17 > 0:08:20which is rare enough in the French tradition to be noticed.
0:08:20 > 0:08:24This is the first thing.
0:08:24 > 0:08:27I do not accept that you say that our candidates are not
0:08:27 > 0:08:31converging on the most important things, on the contrary.
0:08:31 > 0:08:38The second element is that - to be honest - the old parties
0:08:38 > 0:08:41are no more in a position to have a united
0:08:41 > 0:08:42position on many issues.
0:08:42 > 0:08:46So we take a risk, maybe, but it is worth taking it
0:08:46 > 0:08:49because the old system is simply dead.
0:08:50 > 0:08:53So if the old system is dead, presumably you don't want the kind
0:08:53 > 0:08:58of living dead who currently inhabit the old system?
0:08:58 > 0:09:02MPs from other political parties, from the dying socialist party
0:09:02 > 0:09:05or the moribund Republicans, you are not interested in them.
0:09:05 > 0:09:11You purely want fresh blood?
0:09:11 > 0:09:14What we announce, we will try and do what we have announced publicly
0:09:14 > 0:09:16in February already.
0:09:16 > 0:09:21That is that we would like to have half of the Assemblee nationale
0:09:21 > 0:09:24consisting in MPs with some experience, coming
0:09:24 > 0:09:27from the centre-right or the centre-left...
0:09:27 > 0:09:31Coming from the old parties who have let down France?
0:09:31 > 0:09:35Yes, but maybe the youngest one...
0:09:35 > 0:09:39In a system, even if you have dysfunctioning systems,
0:09:39 > 0:09:44you always have good people trying to do their best.
0:09:44 > 0:09:47We can keep some of them in order to keep some
0:09:47 > 0:09:48of the Parliamentary experience.
0:09:48 > 0:09:50You underlined that rightly...
0:09:50 > 0:09:52Manuel Valls, the former Prime Minister of Francois Hollande
0:09:52 > 0:09:57who resigned a few months ago, to make his pitch for the presidency
0:09:57 > 0:10:01of the Elysee Palace, he says he wants to be one of those
0:10:01 > 0:10:03bright young things in Mr Macron's political campaign.
0:10:03 > 0:10:08Is that the sort of person you are looking for?
0:10:08 > 0:10:14No, we've already said that we will not endorse his candidacy,
0:10:14 > 0:10:17because let me come back to my point...
0:10:17 > 0:10:25We had some public criteria on renewal, and also procedure.
0:10:25 > 0:10:29En Marche created an independent commission, with people
0:10:29 > 0:10:32looking at the candidates, the applications that we received.
0:10:32 > 0:10:36We've received more than 14,000 applications
0:10:36 > 0:10:39for more or less 300 seats.
0:10:39 > 0:10:43I won't dwell on this too much, because, in a sense,
0:10:43 > 0:10:46it is unknowable.
0:10:46 > 0:10:49But you know there are other examples of political insurgencies
0:10:49 > 0:10:56where parties are proved to be rather like herding cats.
0:10:56 > 0:10:58One thinks of the Five Star movement in Italy,
0:10:58 > 0:11:02where the challenge was to get a group of people, many who had
0:11:02 > 0:11:05never been in politics before, who were the fresh new blood
0:11:05 > 0:11:07and were keen on what was being said.
0:11:07 > 0:11:10To actually go through the hard slog of voting for the detail.
0:11:10 > 0:11:13But that is unknowable and I accept that.
0:11:13 > 0:11:15But what we do know is that President-elect Macron's
0:11:15 > 0:11:16political manifesto...
0:11:16 > 0:11:17He has an agenda.
0:11:17 > 0:11:19He may or may not get Parliamentary majority.
0:11:19 > 0:11:22Does he hope that if he fails to get a parliamentary
0:11:22 > 0:11:24majority on his own, at the very least, France's other
0:11:24 > 0:11:28political parties will give him some degree of cooperation
0:11:28 > 0:11:32in getting his reform agenda through Parliament?
0:11:32 > 0:11:34Well, ask George Clooney!
0:11:34 > 0:11:35He would say, what else?
0:11:35 > 0:11:38Once again, we have to be very clear.
0:11:38 > 0:11:41The country is in a serious situation.
0:11:41 > 0:11:45We need to boost the economy, we need to fight people
0:11:45 > 0:11:48who have extremist views.
0:11:48 > 0:11:53I hope that, even if En Marche does not have the absolute majority,
0:11:53 > 0:11:56which is not at this stage something that we can say, because
0:11:56 > 0:12:00nobody knows, we hope that we might have one.
0:12:00 > 0:12:05Let's say that we don't.
0:12:05 > 0:12:08In this case I can imagine that people from the Republican can share
0:12:08 > 0:12:10some of our own proposals - or can support.
0:12:11 > 0:12:16Many countries - Germany, the Netherlands, some others -
0:12:16 > 0:12:19they work with coalitions.
0:12:19 > 0:12:23Even in the UK, if I remember rightly, you had a coalition
0:12:23 > 0:12:25of the Tories and the Lib Dems.
0:12:25 > 0:12:27Indeed.
0:12:27 > 0:12:30But again, a coalition created because the electorate declined
0:12:30 > 0:12:32to give any party a majority.
0:12:32 > 0:12:35Let me ask you about the specific proposals...
0:12:35 > 0:12:36We are not going to change.
0:12:36 > 0:12:38If I may, we are Democrats.
0:12:38 > 0:12:40We will respect the results of the vote.
0:12:40 > 0:12:44And we fight for the absolute majority.
0:12:44 > 0:12:48Of course, if the French people decide not to give us the majority,
0:12:48 > 0:12:51then we will do our best in a constructive way.
0:12:51 > 0:12:53But you cannot just wash your hands and say,
0:12:53 > 0:12:56if I do not have the majority, I do nothing.
0:12:56 > 0:12:59Very well, so President Macron will roll up his sleeves,
0:12:59 > 0:13:01regardless of what happens in the assembly elections?
0:13:01 > 0:13:03These are the kinds of things he said he wants.
0:13:04 > 0:13:05He wants to modernise France.
0:13:05 > 0:13:08You observe just a couple of years ago that the country
0:13:08 > 0:13:14is uncompetitive at the moment.
0:13:14 > 0:13:17Hardly surprising - you said public expenditure amounts
0:13:17 > 0:13:18to 55% of GDP.
0:13:18 > 0:13:20Where will the Macron axe fall on the public sector,
0:13:20 > 0:13:22to bring it down to size?
0:13:22 > 0:13:24Well, you are perfectly right.
0:13:24 > 0:13:28We have to reduce the public sector, and we will do it step-by-step.
0:13:28 > 0:13:33Our goal is to reduce the public spending,
0:13:33 > 0:13:36to lose three or four points during the five years,
0:13:36 > 0:13:41because it is not something that you can change in one night.
0:13:41 > 0:13:45But the goal is absolutely clear, to reduce public spending and make
0:13:45 > 0:13:49some economies in some sectors, to save money in some sectors,
0:13:49 > 0:13:53but also to invest in order to have the possibility,
0:13:53 > 0:13:58for example, to modernise and have more digital administrations...
0:13:58 > 0:13:59This is not an easy task...
0:13:59 > 0:14:03So reducing expenditure will help you to redirect some of the money
0:14:03 > 0:14:04into more productive things?
0:14:10 > 0:14:14First of all, yes - and also to have a less of a burden
0:14:14 > 0:14:16on French society in terms of local authorities
0:14:16 > 0:14:17and social expenditures...
0:14:17 > 0:14:19Not targeted...
0:14:19 > 0:14:22Sorry to interrupt, the manifesto that Mr Macron published his vision
0:14:22 > 0:14:24had a target of 60 billion euros to be saved.
0:14:24 > 0:14:28But 10 billion of that assumes unemployment falls from 10% to 7%,
0:14:28 > 0:14:34saving money on benefits being reduced.
0:14:34 > 0:14:3615 billion assumes greater efficiency in the health system,
0:14:36 > 0:14:39and, goodness me, a British politician would tell
0:14:39 > 0:14:41you about the dangers of promising efficiency savings
0:14:41 > 0:14:45in the health system.
0:14:45 > 0:14:48A further 10 billion is assumed to come from local government.
0:14:48 > 0:14:50The Department making cuts, not the President central
0:14:50 > 0:14:57administration.
0:14:57 > 0:15:00When you break it down, it doesn't look quite so radical?
0:15:00 > 0:15:03No, as I said, it is only something you can do step-by-step.
0:15:03 > 0:15:07Francois Fillon was more radical and on the piece of paper it is easy
0:15:07 > 0:15:09to do it.
0:15:09 > 0:15:13The most important thing is to move from the tendency that we have
0:15:13 > 0:15:16to another one - it will take years, but we are convinced
0:15:16 > 0:15:19it is good for France.
0:15:19 > 0:15:21I wonder why you are so understanding about the limitations
0:15:21 > 0:15:24now, when three years ago, in October 2014, you wrote
0:15:24 > 0:15:27in the Financial Times very dismissively of Prime Minister Valls
0:15:27 > 0:15:33proposals of exactly the same sort?
0:15:33 > 0:15:36Paris, you wrote, "plans to shave ?50 billion off public spending,
0:15:36 > 0:15:39equivalent to 4% of the total, but it's not in any hurry.
0:15:39 > 0:15:41Making the savings would take three years.
0:15:41 > 0:15:43If there is something exceptional in France,
0:15:43 > 0:15:46it's the attitude of denial in which all the political
0:15:46 > 0:15:50parties have lapsed."
0:15:51 > 0:15:53An attitude of denial, I would suggest, of which Emmanuel Macron,
0:15:53 > 0:15:55a former minister in President Hollande's government,
0:15:55 > 0:15:59is as guilty as the guilty men and women who you have condemned
0:15:59 > 0:16:01in the old system?
0:16:01 > 0:16:15Wow - is it a court or a broadcast?
0:16:15 > 0:16:17You are judging another country with very severe words...
0:16:17 > 0:16:19I'm judging you on your own words, Ms Goulard.
0:16:19 > 0:16:22That's what you wrote three years ago, and suddenly you think,
0:16:22 > 0:16:25it's fine to take all the time in the world?
0:16:25 > 0:16:29I agree with you, but in these three years, many things have happened.
0:16:29 > 0:16:32We had Marine Le Pen in the second turn of the presidential elections,
0:16:32 > 0:16:34and we have a very high extreme left.
0:16:34 > 0:16:36I'm absolutely convinced, and everything I've done
0:16:36 > 0:16:39in the European Parliament was in favour of strengthening
0:16:39 > 0:16:42the budgetary disciplines.
0:16:43 > 0:16:45On the other hand, you cannot ignore in which country
0:16:45 > 0:16:48you are and the legacy of what was done, or not done,
0:16:48 > 0:16:53before.
0:16:53 > 0:16:54That's the reason why.
0:16:54 > 0:16:58I think it is very important to bring the message to the French.
0:16:58 > 0:17:00We've tried to do it during the campaign,
0:17:00 > 0:17:03and were not complacent at all compared with all of the other
0:17:03 > 0:17:06candidates who were still fighting against Europe or putting
0:17:06 > 0:17:09the blame on Berlin.
0:17:09 > 0:17:10We did it.
0:17:10 > 0:17:13Simply, we consider that it is also our duty to tell the truth,
0:17:13 > 0:17:17and the truth is that if you create big troubles by being too brutal,
0:17:17 > 0:17:19after years of denial, it isn't the best way
0:17:20 > 0:17:25to save the country.
0:17:25 > 0:17:27So we are absolutely convinced that we need
0:17:27 > 0:17:33to have a balanced approach.
0:17:33 > 0:17:34You mentioned Berlin.
0:17:34 > 0:17:36Mr Macron's first international visit as president would
0:17:36 > 0:17:39be to Germany.
0:17:39 > 0:17:43You were with him the last time that he visited Chancellor Merkel.
0:17:43 > 0:17:46What you think will convince her that the candidate she met
0:17:46 > 0:17:48is a serious reformer as President of France?
0:17:48 > 0:17:51It is too early to say, and I'm not Mrs Merkel,
0:17:51 > 0:17:52to answer the question...
0:17:52 > 0:17:54But you have a great insight into Germany?
0:17:54 > 0:17:57You've been involved with the German system for many years.
0:17:57 > 0:18:00You were one of the outsiders when you worked with
0:18:00 > 0:18:02the French Foreign Ministry.
0:18:02 > 0:18:04You helped to broker reunification.
0:18:04 > 0:18:06I'm not asking somebody who is an outsider.
0:18:06 > 0:18:09I'm asking somebody who who probably is one of the best important people
0:18:09 > 0:18:11in France about German political attitudes.
0:18:11 > 0:18:15And I don't say that to flatter, I think it is a statement of fact?
0:18:15 > 0:18:17No, no.
0:18:17 > 0:18:20And I'm not saying that I don't want to answer.
0:18:20 > 0:18:23But the only thing I can do is to speak on my behalf.
0:18:23 > 0:18:26I don't pretend to represent Mrs Merkel, I'm not
0:18:26 > 0:18:28the German ambassador here!
0:18:28 > 0:18:31The key question is the following one -
0:18:31 > 0:18:32first of all, are we serious enough?
0:18:32 > 0:18:35And your questions were fair, we have to be very...
0:18:35 > 0:18:39How can I say?
0:18:39 > 0:18:42We have to be aware of how far we have to go internally,
0:18:42 > 0:18:45and Emmanuel Macron has never underestimated that there are many
0:18:45 > 0:18:47decisions to take at a national level.
0:18:47 > 0:18:50On the other hand, I'm absolutely convinced that it is in the German
0:18:51 > 0:18:54national interests to keep a good relationship with France.
0:18:54 > 0:18:57To avoid to be seen, even if it was not intentional
0:18:57 > 0:19:00as having Germanic visions of Europe, and of course,
0:19:00 > 0:19:08to help to build new policies.
0:19:08 > 0:19:12If you look at the world as it is, I'm quite sure that in the coming
0:19:12 > 0:19:14years, security issues, defence, fighting against cyber attacks,
0:19:14 > 0:19:16fighting against terrorism, border controls around the EU
0:19:16 > 0:19:26or the Schengen area, they will be top of the agenda.
0:19:26 > 0:19:36Of course, we have to convince the Germans that we can make
0:19:36 > 0:19:38the reforms necessary to boost the French economy.
0:19:38 > 0:19:47This is something true.
0:19:47 > 0:19:50But we also need to convince them to move in some fields,
0:19:50 > 0:19:54where we have many - how can I say - lots of responsibility in common
0:19:54 > 0:19:56for the future and security of this continent.
0:19:56 > 0:19:59Emmanuel Macron has called Brexit, the British decision to quit
0:19:59 > 0:20:01the European Union, "a crime".
0:20:01 > 0:20:03Crimes, usually, are answered with punishment to discourage others
0:20:03 > 0:20:05from engaging in similar criminal and nefarious activity.
0:20:05 > 0:20:08What punishment does he think would be appropriate,
0:20:08 > 0:20:18do you think, for Britain?
0:20:18 > 0:20:22As I told you, I speak on my behalf, and I am just underlying the fact
0:20:22 > 0:20:25that everybody in Brussels has seriously taken the British vote.
0:20:25 > 0:20:28Nobody is putting it into question, and nobody wants to punish
0:20:28 > 0:20:30the British people.
0:20:30 > 0:20:34That is not at all the way that we look at things.
0:20:34 > 0:20:37On the other hand, I think a country that insists upon having control
0:20:37 > 0:20:40on its own interests can understand that other countries also want
0:20:40 > 0:20:46control on what happens in the EU.
0:20:46 > 0:20:57So, the negotiation is going to take place.
0:20:57 > 0:21:01The negotiating team has a mandate, and we will see when the president
0:21:01 > 0:21:03will be in place, and have a team.
0:21:03 > 0:21:16We will see how we can negotiate.
0:21:16 > 0:21:19It is in nobody's interests not to have an agreement or see
0:21:19 > 0:21:20the relationship deteriorat.
0:21:20 > 0:21:24It will not be in the interests of the UK or in our interests neither.
0:21:24 > 0:21:26It will be tough negotiations but I hope fair.
0:21:26 > 0:21:29If I may again stress the security and intelligence aspects,
0:21:29 > 0:21:32this is one of the reasons, the quality of the relationship our
0:21:32 > 0:21:34two countries have in this field.
0:21:34 > 0:21:37It must make us very responsible in negotiating for the rest.
0:21:37 > 0:21:40Last month, you told an interviewer that "certain problems are solved
0:21:40 > 0:21:44by transferring sovereignty".
0:21:44 > 0:21:46This is the case with border controls.
0:21:46 > 0:21:49Why then does Mr Macron want to re-negotiate the Le Touquet
0:21:49 > 0:21:50agreement between Britain and France?
0:21:50 > 0:21:53That's a bilateral deal which has nothing to do with the EU,
0:21:53 > 0:21:56but it allows officers from the British Border Agency
0:21:56 > 0:21:58to operate in France, to prevent migrants travelling
0:21:58 > 0:22:00illegally into the UK?
0:22:00 > 0:22:02Once again, I can only stress one thing.
0:22:02 > 0:22:05The French border will be, in the future, and external border
0:22:05 > 0:22:17of the EU in any case.
0:22:17 > 0:22:20As well as the French border in front of Dover and the channel.
0:22:20 > 0:22:23Once again, we are not going to begin the negotiations
0:22:23 > 0:22:28today during this broadcast.
0:22:28 > 0:22:30We don't yet have a president in charge.
0:22:30 > 0:22:33These are sensitive issues on an ongoing negotiation.
0:22:33 > 0:22:34The only negotiator is Michel Barnier.
0:22:34 > 0:22:37But this is not a bilateral question, the Le Touquet
0:22:37 > 0:22:39agreement...
0:22:39 > 0:22:40Of course...
0:22:40 > 0:22:42You are right.
0:22:42 > 0:22:44But you cannot completely separate a negotiation with the UK
0:22:44 > 0:22:46on bilateral issues with the comprehensive negotiation
0:22:46 > 0:22:49the EU is conducting also on behalf of France.
0:22:49 > 0:22:52France is in both bodies, and even the UK isn't.
0:22:52 > 0:22:55We will look at it carefully and when it is about migrants
0:22:55 > 0:22:59and human lives, it should not be something that we look at without -
0:22:59 > 0:23:00how can I say - deep thought.
0:23:00 > 0:23:03I don't want to enter now into a negotiation.
0:23:03 > 0:23:16It would not be appropriate at all.
0:23:16 > 0:23:23Finally, let me ask you about yourself, as you probably
0:23:23 > 0:23:25observe, President Macron will only become President on Sunday
0:23:25 > 0:23:27when he formally succeeds Francois Hollande.
0:23:27 > 0:23:31Have you been asked to serve in his government?
0:23:31 > 0:23:35The day I can answer this question, I will call the BBC again!
0:23:35 > 0:23:40If the call comes, would you say yes?
0:23:40 > 0:23:42I don't want to comment on this issue.
0:23:42 > 0:23:46It is a prerogative of the president to decide who will be his
0:23:46 > 0:23:48Prime Minister, so I respect the French constitution.
0:23:48 > 0:23:51And you are an MEP, will you at least be a candidate
0:23:51 > 0:23:59for the parliamentary elections?
0:23:59 > 0:24:00That would be announced before...
0:24:00 > 0:24:01I am not a candidate.
0:24:01 > 0:24:11No, I am not a candidate.
0:24:11 > 0:24:12Sylvie Goulard, leaving more questions unanswered,
0:24:12 > 0:24:15which I hope we will have the opportunity to speak
0:24:15 > 0:24:16to you about again.
0:24:16 > 0:24:20Thank you very much for speaking to us live from Paris for HARDtalk.
0:24:44 > 0:24:45Hello there.
0:24:45 > 0:24:49After the dry weather that we have been experiencing for days and weeks