:00:15. > :00:21.President Duterte prepares to set out his vision for the Philippines,
:00:22. > :00:26.He is expected to talk about the ongoing and controversial
:00:27. > :00:28.war on drugs, the conflict in Marawi against Islamist militants
:00:29. > :00:32.Nine people have been found dead including two children
:00:33. > :00:34.inside a truck in the US state of Texas.
:00:35. > :00:37.Police say they were the victims of human trafficking.
:00:38. > :00:40.Thirty others were suffering from severe dehydration.
:00:41. > :00:42.And this story is trending on BBC.com...
:00:43. > :00:45.British cyclist Chris Froome has won the tour de France.
:00:46. > :00:50.He kept his composure putting in a near perfect performance
:00:51. > :00:53.as he secured his fourth Tour de France title
:00:54. > :01:18.Now on BBC News it's time for HARDTtalk.
:01:19. > :01:23.A quarter of Lebanon's population are Syrian refugees,
:01:24. > :01:25.which is putting the country's infrastructure and resources
:01:26. > :01:37.The party of my guests, Ghassan Hasbani says he wants to send them
:01:38. > :01:38.home. Some leading political figures
:01:39. > :01:40.there are calling for the refugees But since some in the government
:01:41. > :01:44.have ruled out talking directly to President Assad, how can they be
:01:45. > :02:23.sure any returning refugees Ghassan Hasbani, welcome and thank
:02:24. > :02:30.you for being with us. After one and a half million Syrians have sought
:02:31. > :02:35.refuge in your country. About a quarter of your population. How big
:02:36. > :02:41.a threat those that represent? It is a huge economic and social burden.
:02:42. > :02:45.Lebanon welcomed all these Syrians at the beginning, given the
:02:46. > :02:54.humanitarian situation as they were in. After a while, several years on,
:02:55. > :02:59.the numbers have increased significantly and they have placed a
:03:00. > :03:05.huge burden on infrastructure, on the health-care system, on
:03:06. > :03:09.electricity, on everything. The United Nations and other countries
:03:10. > :03:14.have been able to support them on a humanitarian basis... You do not
:03:15. > :03:22.allow them to work and they cannot put down roots in your country... It
:03:23. > :03:27.is almost impossible to integrate them with the scale. Imagine them
:03:28. > :03:34.landing in the UK. It is virtually impossible to integrate them on any
:03:35. > :03:41.level. On the humanitarian level, the crisis is actually turning into
:03:42. > :03:50.a more permanent situation with is causing house community The Tic,
:03:51. > :03:56.donor community tiredness. -- tiredness. How can they return home
:03:57. > :04:04.without causing more potential tension. Your party leader has said
:04:05. > :04:10.a few days ago, after several years, some refugees have started to act
:04:11. > :04:15.like they own the place. Patience is running out. It is natural when you
:04:16. > :04:22.have such a large number of people, in the north the ratio has reverse,
:04:23. > :04:29.a quarter of the people hardly be needs. You can imagine the social
:04:30. > :04:35.tensions at that could cause. 50% of the youth are totally unemployed and
:04:36. > :04:42.this number is increasing and that is causing significant tension. Part
:04:43. > :04:46.of that, you could argue is because you will not let them work and
:04:47. > :04:53.contribute to the community productively and that creates social
:04:54. > :05:04.problems. The youth unemployment among the Lebanese is 30%. It is
:05:05. > :05:12.about the lack of availability. I noticed a colleague of yours saying,
:05:13. > :05:15.a fellow Lebanese forces and Pete saying unfortunately they are not
:05:16. > :05:23.taking job opportunities away from the Lebanese. How is that happening?
:05:24. > :05:31.-- they are taking. Illegally, there are some mundane works... Some
:05:32. > :05:35.Lebanese are exploiting them... In general, the Syrians have always
:05:36. > :05:44.worked in Lebanon in specific jobs but now we see them in more
:05:45. > :05:51.specialised jobs, in the healthcare sector, for example which becomes
:05:52. > :06:05.more troubling. Policy decisions and to these problems. Refugees of all
:06:06. > :06:11.nationalities enjoyed right. In a sense, a policy tightening the risk
:06:12. > :06:20.of exploitation is the Human Rights Watch has pointed out, heightens the
:06:21. > :06:23.risk of expectation and abuse. You create a situation where people are
:06:24. > :06:28.they and you cannot do much about it but it kind of institutionalised as
:06:29. > :06:34.the then a sense of uselessness and for your people resentment. Here
:06:35. > :06:39.they are, they are not doing anything, who is paying for them?
:06:40. > :06:45.The situation is much worse than that. It is not about the Lebanese
:06:46. > :06:51.are presenting, the Syrian refugees receiving financial aid per family,
:06:52. > :06:57.hospitalisation, medical support, receiving food rations and food
:06:58. > :07:03.support as well as using Lebanese electricity and infrastructure so it
:07:04. > :07:07.is not about job creation but about Lebanese wanted to go to hospital
:07:08. > :07:13.and finding that this hospital is more than 50% induced by Syrian
:07:14. > :07:20.refugees, paid for by someone while his services are less provided than
:07:21. > :07:26.the refugees. We have not reached the point where there is resentment
:07:27. > :07:30.causing tension at the extreme level, however this could lead to a
:07:31. > :07:36.situation where both sides, both are refugees and the Lebanese, start
:07:37. > :07:40.getting tired. You would seem similar report on social media a
:07:41. > :07:47.little bit before we recorded a group of men physically assaulting a
:07:48. > :07:54.refugee. They were arrested by your security forces are now. The video
:07:55. > :08:00.which spread like wildfire shot the man from eastern province in Syria
:08:01. > :08:10.being kicked on the ground as he begs this group of men to stop. They
:08:11. > :08:18.demand he praises of the Syrian army and its people. There was subtly
:08:19. > :08:24.going around urging Lebanese to beat Syria. It is already there. We have
:08:25. > :08:27.a lot of Syrians are cursing at the Lebanese army, attacking them
:08:28. > :08:36.verbally. Tensions are rising on both sides. Your suggested solution,
:08:37. > :08:42.that they should go home. And you are going to put proposals to the
:08:43. > :08:48.Cabinet of ways you think that can be achieved. What sort of thing that
:08:49. > :08:55.you suggesting? The safer areas in Syria exceed in scale and size and
:08:56. > :09:03.surface area, the surface area of Lebanon by about 60 times so there
:09:04. > :09:09.are several safe areas in Syria right now. Were these people come
:09:10. > :09:16.from, they are from different parts of Syria said the areas where they
:09:17. > :09:22.can go back to home, they can. Some have been going back home and coming
:09:23. > :09:26.back because the controls have not been 100% airtight. It is about
:09:27. > :09:32.having the right structures for them to go back safely - this is an
:09:33. > :09:38.important point- it is not about forcing them to go back to safely
:09:39. > :09:45.returned with the international community support. You do not have
:09:46. > :09:50.that, the UN special co-ordinator, whether or not it will be possible
:09:51. > :09:56.to have in Syria areas where refugees will be able to go back is
:09:57. > :10:00.far from happening. The conflict continues in a very dramatic way.
:10:01. > :10:06.She is the expert. You would accept that. It is something to be
:10:07. > :10:14.discussed. It depends. The group of refugees, they are not all from one
:10:15. > :10:20.colour or one side. What is safe four someone is not safe for
:10:21. > :10:27.another. This is interesting, you say they can decide. Let me point
:10:28. > :10:32.out an example, an innocent, forgive me, it's slightly undermines people
:10:33. > :10:40.'s confidence in way that you are really that bothered. In January
:10:41. > :10:45.2016, in violation of international obligations, they will refugees were
:10:46. > :10:52.sent back to sea without assessing risk of harm upon return. You are
:10:53. > :10:58.disputing that? People passed through the Lebanese epoch because
:10:59. > :11:04.people cannot fly directly to Syria. Millions of Syrians do that, they
:11:05. > :11:12.are not refugees. They drive through, they fly out of Beirut
:11:13. > :11:19.airport because many lines could not fly out of Syria. There are areas
:11:20. > :11:26.for people to safely go back and forth. Well, the Human Rights Watch
:11:27. > :11:34.says they were forced back without consideration. Nobody forced
:11:35. > :11:39.anybody. You are not signatories to the refugee convention say you have
:11:40. > :11:42.not formally committed to the international standards and that is
:11:43. > :11:47.another reason why people are sceptical about whether people can
:11:48. > :11:53.take your word on that. More than 100 million people coming from Syria
:11:54. > :12:01.or anywhere in the world, imagine the scale, coming to Europe. This is
:12:02. > :12:08.the largest refugees per population situation in the world so norms, as
:12:09. > :12:17.the world applies, cannot be applied there. The world has to work first
:12:18. > :12:22.on making sure that the right secure areas in Syria for them to go back.
:12:23. > :12:27.It is not Julie a Lebanese problem it is a European and international
:12:28. > :12:31.problem. Presumably you are not wildly happy that Donald Trump
:12:32. > :12:41.decided Syrians are nationality it is not what allowed in the US. What
:12:42. > :12:46.we're saying here is it is important for the international community to
:12:47. > :12:50.take this step and make sure there are safe areas in Syria, because we
:12:51. > :12:55.have seen evidence of people going back to Syria safely and in the
:12:56. > :13:01.refugee convention will tell you that any individual that can go
:13:02. > :13:04.safely back home is not considered a refugee any more in the country
:13:05. > :13:14.where they are plied refugee status from. Let's also talk about that,
:13:15. > :13:21.there is no guarantee that these groups of people in Lebanon and feel
:13:22. > :13:26.safe in the Assad regime area. These areas may be outside of that. If you
:13:27. > :13:32.go and do it without the ultimate of the government and let's face it,
:13:33. > :13:38.you have relations with the Syrian government for security reasons.
:13:39. > :13:44.Allowing for that, why not say, we will deal with that, we may not like
:13:45. > :13:49.you but if you want to reduce this burden sometimes it you have to deal
:13:50. > :13:57.with people you wouldn't normally. Just to show you, about how we are
:13:58. > :14:04.concerned about safe return, it requires that they return to areas
:14:05. > :14:12.where they feel safe. The opposition has started a long time ago, long
:14:13. > :14:15.before terrorist groups moved in Syria, this is a legitimate
:14:16. > :14:19.opposition, if those people do not feel safe going back to the regime
:14:20. > :14:26.area, hacking talk to the regime about sending them back, they might
:14:27. > :14:34.be persecuted. They are not even willing to share their name with the
:14:35. > :14:40.Syrian regime. If the ACA cannot do that, why should we do that. There
:14:41. > :14:46.are safe areas, they can choose to go back... They can choose, no one
:14:47. > :14:53.will be forced out? That is a yes or no question. Lebanon has agreed to
:14:54. > :14:59.the principle that people will not be forced out... There is always a
:15:00. > :15:07.part... If you are incentivising them... You are going to bribe them?
:15:08. > :15:12.The international community is putting a major incentive for them
:15:13. > :15:17.to stay in Lebanon. They getting unemployment benefits effectively.
:15:18. > :15:22.Better to give them nothing so they get so desperate they go home. No,
:15:23. > :15:30.being illogical about it, starting to build the infrastructure for them
:15:31. > :15:36.where they can go back. It is a humanitarian think..
:15:37. > :15:42.So the honest message you are sending to people in Lebanon, it
:15:43. > :15:46.might not be individuals, it might just be the volume they are finding
:15:47. > :15:49.too difficult to deal with, because sometimes Syrians are welcome,
:15:50. > :15:55.sometimes not. We won't talk about the military. Is that you will send
:15:56. > :15:59.them home, but it is going to take time. It is not going to happen over
:16:00. > :16:02.the next month, the next year. And plainly put together is not
:16:03. > :16:06.something that happens overnight. But we need to start working on it
:16:07. > :16:10.from now, because we have like 30,000 new berths in Lebanon, a lot
:16:11. > :16:13.of them are not registered. So basically how are they going to be
:16:14. > :16:17.recognised as Syrian citizens later on? I understand. We are dealing
:16:18. > :16:21.with that situation right now, to make sure they get recognised. Your
:16:22. > :16:27.party leader, it is ridiculous to ask you to work with President
:16:28. > :16:32.Assad, yet at the same time in government with Hezbollah, who are
:16:33. > :16:35.fighting with President Assad's side. This must be straining
:16:36. > :16:38.relations, not least when your political system is so finely
:16:39. > :16:43.balanced. Look, we have formed a coalition government that includes
:16:44. > :16:46.all constituents of the Lebanese society, and we have made sure that
:16:47. > :16:52.the government manifest and the plan, which we call the return to
:16:53. > :16:58.confidence, and we have made sure that any point we do not believe in
:16:59. > :17:03.are actually either opposed to or not included in that programme.
:17:04. > :17:07.Including the situation that Hezbollah has actually put the
:17:08. > :17:10.country. We do not agree, although we are in government, it is a
:17:11. > :17:14.coalition government, but we reserve the right not to agree for anyone to
:17:15. > :17:19.carry arms in Lebanon except the police, army, and no one to defend
:17:20. > :17:23.Lebanese borders except police and army. And I suppose some of these
:17:24. > :17:28.combo misers risk undermining the state itself. This is what David at
:17:29. > :17:32.the Washington Institute wrote earlier this year. The president
:17:33. > :17:38.continues to defend Hezbollah's possession of weapons outside state
:17:39. > :17:42.control, and its resistance of pressure against Israel. Again, all
:17:43. > :17:46.these outside influences compromise what you can do as an independent
:17:47. > :17:54.sovereign country. Our main objective is to keep the country's
:17:55. > :17:57.sovereign, independent and safe. That is the problem, with all of
:17:58. > :18:01.these people outside pulling the strings. There has been a lot of
:18:02. > :18:04.influence in the past, but we managed to agree on an election
:18:05. > :18:07.rule, we managed to agree on a budget, we managed to actually lot
:18:08. > :18:12.of things through the system without external influence in the last six
:18:13. > :18:16.months, at least. Six months, well, it is a start, isn't it? I was going
:18:17. > :18:20.to ask you about the election, because it has taken years. We have
:18:21. > :18:27.had the situation where they should have been a general election back in
:18:28. > :18:32.2014 and there is now going to be one in 20 2017. There will be to
:18:33. > :18:36.macros, one of a party candidate and one of an individual candidate but
:18:37. > :18:39.they can still only vote for an individual from that same party
:18:40. > :18:43.list. So in a sense haven't you missed an opportunity to slowly we
:18:44. > :18:46.sectarianism? If they could have used that individual vote for any
:18:47. > :18:51.candidate and any lest they might have said I am a supporter of the
:18:52. > :18:55.needs front, I am a Christian, but actually I quite like that guy over
:18:56. > :18:59.there. He is a socialist, he is from a different list, he might even be a
:19:00. > :19:02.Muslim, but I think as an individual he is good for government and
:19:03. > :19:06.Parliament in Lebanon. But you don't have that opportunity. Well, you
:19:07. > :19:10.have the opportunity within the list. The lists are sectarian. No,
:19:11. > :19:15.lists can be indefinite. You can have as many lists, as long as they
:19:16. > :19:19.pass a certain threshold. This law has Exley created a better
:19:20. > :19:24.representation, because in Lebanon it is a matrix. So without getting
:19:25. > :19:27.involved in too many details, it is allowing actually, now, people who
:19:28. > :19:32.have minorities but who have a presence, and are quite popular in
:19:33. > :19:35.their regional area, to be selected from the list with a preferential
:19:36. > :19:41.vote, or allowing people to form independent lists, and actually get
:19:42. > :19:45.through the system, if they have... If they can pass the hurdle. So your
:19:46. > :19:51.hope is that the Independent lists will actually broaden that kind
:19:52. > :19:55.of... Will actually slowly create... Break some of that sectarianism up.
:19:56. > :19:58.Exactly, and it will create opportunities for new faces in
:19:59. > :20:01.Parliament, as well as it will supplement and also the party
:20:02. > :20:05.politics that we aim to get to outside the sectarian structure. I
:20:06. > :20:09.mean, Lebanon's political system kind of innocence seems frozen in
:20:10. > :20:12.time. It is based on a sectarian division dating from 1943, which
:20:13. > :20:29.used population figures from the census conducted in 1932, so that is
:20:30. > :20:33.getting on for 90 years ago. I guess some of the population figures might
:20:34. > :20:36.have changed a bit in that time. I wonder if you think that that
:20:37. > :20:38.sectarianism embedded into the political structure is white,
:20:39. > :20:41.internationally, Lebanon is viewed as so corrupt? It is not about
:20:42. > :20:44.sectarianism. So sectarianism as part of the structure because it has
:20:45. > :20:47.been defined this way, and it continues to be defined this way,
:20:48. > :20:50.because it represents the various cultural structures of Lebanon,
:20:51. > :20:53.which is a good mosaic. And this is a positivity about Lebanon, not a
:20:54. > :20:57.negativity. Sectarian is unfortunate Lee was used in the civil war to
:20:58. > :21:00.divide people up. But today it is quite different. Patrick Reed create
:21:01. > :21:02.more value in creating multiple cultures, multiple different
:21:03. > :21:05.religious background and religious groups, who live together, co-habit
:21:06. > :21:08.this country, and work together. And then it protects minorities, and
:21:09. > :21:12.divides them 50- 50, so it creates this partnership between Muslims and
:21:13. > :21:16.Christians. And this is a unique experience in the Middle East. You
:21:17. > :21:20.say it is not dividing up, but the Lebanon transparency Association
:21:21. > :21:24.says corruption in Lebanon exists in its forms, including patronage,
:21:25. > :21:27.embezzlement, kickbacks. Vote buying. The causes include the
:21:28. > :21:33.postwar structure which has led to a power-sharing formula among
:21:34. > :21:37.political and compartmentalised groups. That means they are
:21:38. > :21:40.competing for resources. That was a situation created by the civil war,
:21:41. > :21:44.unfortunately, which we have been working towards getting rid of as
:21:45. > :21:48.much as possible. It is already 27 years ago. Indeed, and our party is
:21:49. > :21:52.in government to actually curb that and fight it and all the things we
:21:53. > :21:55.are doing are focused with a single-minded approach to curb
:21:56. > :21:59.corruption. I guess... I am sure that is your intention, but you will
:22:00. > :22:02.be aware that Transparency International, for instance, demoted
:22:03. > :22:08.Lebanon and other 13 places on its list of corrupt countries. It is now
:22:09. > :22:12.136 out of 176 countries. That was done... The research was done last
:22:13. > :22:15.year, I think they should keep it updated with time. We look forward
:22:16. > :22:19.to seeing what dramatic change there has been. It takes time to actually
:22:20. > :22:24.reverse that trend. See, the classic example of this, and we will deal
:22:25. > :22:28.with this relatively briefly, but it is important, is the inability to
:22:29. > :22:32.provide a reliable electricity supply 24 hours a day, seven days a
:22:33. > :22:35.week. On one of the consequences of that is that the State electricity
:22:36. > :22:38.utility can't supply the electricity, so people have set up
:22:39. > :22:44.their own generators. In some of that has inevitably committed to the
:22:45. > :22:47.corruption. The leader of the progressive Socialist party tweeted
:22:48. > :22:51.earlier this year, stop dividing electricity spoils. Save Lebanon's
:22:52. > :22:57.electricity Centre from shabbiness, corruption, and those avaricious
:22:58. > :23:01.politicians. What is happening is a crime, would you agree to crime?
:23:02. > :23:06.Exactly, and might cry and the government is to actually demand
:23:07. > :23:10.that we cut down any wastage that we still keep paying for electricity
:23:11. > :23:16.through our budget, which has put a huge burden on the government
:23:17. > :23:19.budget. 2 billion a year. About 1.5 billion-a-year, dollars, yes,
:23:20. > :23:23.dollars. And this is a cumulative more than $20 billion over several
:23:24. > :23:27.years. Now is the time to go back and is of that problem. And I have
:23:28. > :23:30.been making this as my key agenda item in this government. We have
:23:31. > :23:34.succeeded in pushing this agenda forward. There is no plan that is
:23:35. > :23:39.being implemented by the Energy Minister, and we are making sure
:23:40. > :23:42.that we are observing this plan very closely, so it could implement it
:23:43. > :23:46.quickly, at the lowest possible cost, to get back electricity.
:23:47. > :23:49.Because we are the last country in the world in terms of quality of
:23:50. > :23:53.electricity supply, and we need to reverse that situation very, very
:23:54. > :23:57.quickly. In five years it should be done. I hope so. You have got a 50
:23:58. > :24:00.year plan, I think. At the moment the electricity company apparently
:24:01. > :24:03.can't get the sign on at night outside its headquarters, according
:24:04. > :24:09.to the Reuters agency. It doesn't sound great. Let me put to you what
:24:10. > :24:13.a World Bank representative based in Beirut told Reuters. He was talking
:24:14. > :24:17.in 2015. He said in about five years' time, come 2020, instead of
:24:18. > :24:21.having an average supply of 16 to 18 hours a day probably will have gone
:24:22. > :24:25.down to 12 hours. The technical solutions are all proven and tested.
:24:26. > :24:29.You can build the plant but the money, but he says what is needed is
:24:30. > :24:51.political will to make a decision. And that is what we are doing in
:24:52. > :24:54.this government. You know, the electricity file pops up on the
:24:55. > :24:58.government agenda every couple of weeks. So it is that frequent. We
:24:59. > :25:02.meet every week, and we are pushing this agenda very, very quickly. So
:25:03. > :25:06.when will the lights stay on any time of day or night? Well, today it
:25:07. > :25:09.is 20 hours. We are actually pushing for this to happen. There are debris
:25:10. > :25:12.solutions which will bring electricity quickly, but we need to
:25:13. > :25:15.make sure that these temporary solutions are not passed a corrupt
:25:16. > :25:17.system, they are passed through the official systems with transparency,
:25:18. > :25:21.and all contracts are signed properly. And this is what we are
:25:22. > :25:24.pushing for, as well as making sure that the longer term solutions are
:25:25. > :25:28.unlocked very quickly without any further delays, and we just had
:25:29. > :25:31.recently, a few days ago, a big discussion about the time lapse
:25:32. > :25:34.required to actually get these off the ground very quickly. So we are
:25:35. > :25:38.trying to do this within months, not years. Ghassan Hasbani, a promise of
:25:39. > :25:40.power to the people. Thank you very much for being with us on HARDtalk.
:25:41. > :25:49.Thank you. Many of us saw rain at some
:25:50. > :25:55.stage of the weekend. For some of us, it came from big
:25:56. > :25:58.clouds, threatening skies, and some intense downpours,
:25:59. > :26:02.but I think most of us saw some