:00:14. > :00:15.Welcome to HARDtalk, I'm Stephen Sackur.
:00:16. > :00:18.Donald Trump promised to be a disruptive President.
:00:19. > :00:21.Right now the thing he's disrupting the most is his own
:00:22. > :00:28.He now has a new Chief of Staff and a new Director
:00:29. > :00:32.of Communications, but what he seems unable to shift is the sense
:00:33. > :00:35.of a Presidency in crisis, at odds with Republicans
:00:36. > :00:37.in Congress and still dogged by Dederal investigations
:00:38. > :00:41.of Russia's alleged meddling in 2016's election.
:00:42. > :00:48.My guess is Sebastien Glory, a deputy assistant to the president on
:00:49. > :00:53.national security. Where does the Trump presidency go from here? -- my
:00:54. > :01:22.guest. Sebastian Gorka in Washington,
:01:23. > :01:26.welcome to HARDtalk. Thank you, Stephen. I want to begin with
:01:27. > :01:29.something you just said five days ago, you said the atmosphere here in
:01:30. > :01:34.the White House is absolutely wonderful. We've got a new broom
:01:35. > :01:39.sweeping through the communications shop in Anthony Scaramucci and we
:01:40. > :01:43.are humming along on all cylinders. Plenty has happened since then.
:01:44. > :01:47.What's the atmosphere in the White House like today? Fabulous. I
:01:48. > :01:51.literally just left the Oval Office where we swore in general killer
:01:52. > :01:57.leak as the President's new Chief of Staff. It was like a family
:01:58. > :02:02.gathering, great, great mood, lots of press interest, so we are very
:02:03. > :02:06.excited about recent developments. Are you? Quite interesting, this is
:02:07. > :02:11.a heck of a family you're living in at the moment and Mr Scaramucci, who
:02:12. > :02:16.you so warmly welcomed last week, with his words to the New Yorker has
:02:17. > :02:21.surely throwing a bomb into the building behind you, the White
:02:22. > :02:26.House. Not at all. I know that's what our colleagues on the hill on
:02:27. > :02:30.the left and in the chattering classes of the leftist media would
:02:31. > :02:37.want people to believe, but it's not at all like that. We don't live in
:02:38. > :02:43.the rarefied bubble of boilerplate and assessing about things that
:02:44. > :02:47.aren't real, such as the Russia collusion delusion. We have a job to
:02:48. > :02:51.do. The president in the last six months has achieved things that most
:02:52. > :02:56.presidents to achieve in years, if you look at immigration, the
:02:57. > :03:03.economy. We broke an historic record for the stock exchange just in the
:03:04. > :03:06.last two days. So the fact is we are excited, the agenda, make America
:03:07. > :03:10.great again, is working. We've strengthened to the team. We have
:03:11. > :03:15.people who can communicate to the base that elected as president in
:03:16. > :03:19.the form of Anthony and we have a 4-star general who, in six months,
:03:20. > :03:22.turned the Department of Homeland Security around, made the illegal
:03:23. > :03:28.migration across the southern border drop not just by 10% or 50% by 73%.
:03:29. > :03:34.And we're just going to keep on going forward despite what our
:03:35. > :03:38.detractors wish to say. What Anthony Scaramucci said, and of course he
:03:39. > :03:43.pre-empted the departure of Reince Priebus, was the chief of staff at
:03:44. > :03:47.the time, since gone, was a bleeping paranoid schizophrenic, he said the
:03:48. > :03:52.chief strategist in the White House was pursuing his own brand and used
:03:53. > :03:55.a sexual euphemism that I can't repeat to suggest that he was
:03:56. > :04:00.somebody that Scaramucci did not rate in the slightest. He also
:04:01. > :04:04.suggested that other White House staffers in the communications shop
:04:05. > :04:08.as you call it would have to take lie detector tests because he was
:04:09. > :04:11.going to bleeping kill all the leakers. That suggests to me that
:04:12. > :04:15.this is the most deeply dysfunctional White House team I can
:04:16. > :04:20.possibly imagine. Then how do you explain the results, Stephen?
:04:21. > :04:27.Literally... We have had 24 weeks in a row. Market breaking records. We
:04:28. > :04:33.have seen illegal migration planet. We've seen a to revitalise. We've
:04:34. > :04:37.seen 800,000 jobs, almost 900,000 job... With respect, none of those
:04:38. > :04:41.pieces of data. How is that possible? And none of those pieces
:04:42. > :04:45.of data reflect my question at all. They have to be connected. My
:04:46. > :04:48.question is how do we regard the White House as anything other than
:04:49. > :04:54.deeply and profoundly dysfunctional today? Because it isn't. If you want
:04:55. > :04:58.to persist in harping on about fake news concepts of what's going on in
:04:59. > :05:04.the White House, I actually work in the side the White House and I can
:05:05. > :05:07.tell you there is no rises and we are creating the results expected of
:05:08. > :05:14.us and which got the president elected. You can live on that
:05:15. > :05:21.illusion if you want. Look at the track record. I'm going to look at
:05:22. > :05:27.the track record but I want to take seriously what your director of
:05:28. > :05:31.communications said. He said four example he would get lie detectors
:05:32. > :05:35.in to find out who was leaking from inside the White House. Have you
:05:36. > :05:40.faced yet the prospect of taking a lie detector test? I don't work for
:05:41. > :05:45.the comms shop, I work for the chief strategist, Stephen Bannon. I don't
:05:46. > :05:49.really wish to comment on what I think was meant to be a private
:05:50. > :05:53.conversation between Anthony and this reporter that the reporter
:05:54. > :06:00.clearly recorded. It's just sleazy journalism. It's just unseemly. We
:06:01. > :06:04.have a leak problem, if you look at the Congressional report from last
:06:05. > :06:10.week, we've had 125 leaks in 126 days. 62 of them have been deemed by
:06:11. > :06:14.Congress to be of national security import. That is a problem that will
:06:15. > :06:20.be dealt with, not primarily by Antony, his remit is the comms shop,
:06:21. > :06:23.but when you have a 4-star general like a general Kelly come in, the
:06:24. > :06:28.Chief of Staff is responsible for things like discipline, and these
:06:29. > :06:34.things have to end because it is bad for national security. With that in
:06:35. > :06:38.mind one more question about the teamwork and the way the logistics
:06:39. > :06:42.works inside the White House. Anthony Scaramucci made it very
:06:43. > :06:46.plain that he reports directly and personally to the president. He said
:06:47. > :06:50.that at a time when Reince Priebus was still Chief of Staff and it was
:06:51. > :06:54.clearly frankly some kind of comment on his relationship with Reince
:06:55. > :06:58.Priebus but to the best of your knowledge, is Scaramucci still going
:06:59. > :07:02.to have that direct personal route to the president or, as in most
:07:03. > :07:08.presidencies, is the new Chief of Staff going to be the gatekeeper who
:07:09. > :07:11.controls all access by others to the President? The Chief of Staff was
:07:12. > :07:18.literally sworn in about 52 minutes ago. So he is setting in place the
:07:19. > :07:21.procedures by which he will run the White House internally. Were Anthony
:07:22. > :07:26.fits into that, you would have to ask general Kelly or talk to Anthony
:07:27. > :07:30.but let's give more than 52 minutes and find out later in the week.
:07:31. > :07:35.Let's talk about the relationship between the White House and the US
:07:36. > :07:40.Congress, would you accept that on a series of different matters, from
:07:41. > :07:44.the failure of a key plank of Mr Trump's policy agenda, that is the
:07:45. > :07:49.repeal of affordable healthcare, so-called Obamacare, to the
:07:50. > :07:53.Congressional reaction to Mr Trump's comments about the Attorney General,
:07:54. > :08:04.the Republicans in the US Congress are deeply out of sympathy with and
:08:05. > :08:07.alienate from Donald Trump today? I look at it significantly
:08:08. > :08:12.differently. You call the president a destructor, in many cases he is,
:08:13. > :08:15.he's a positive disruptive force in Washington and that's why we call
:08:16. > :08:19.Washington the swamp. The thing that has to be remembered is that he may
:08:20. > :08:22.have formally been the GOP Republican candidate for president
:08:23. > :08:26.but Donald J Trump wasn't an establishment individual. Think
:08:27. > :08:30.about the fact, the first time since 1766, the first time in American
:08:31. > :08:36.history we have a President of the United States who has never served
:08:37. > :08:40.in public office before, not even as a governor, and who has never held
:08:41. > :08:43.senior military rank like Eisenhower or Washington. First time ever.
:08:44. > :08:46.Stephen, why do you think that is? Because the American people are fed
:08:47. > :08:51.up with the establishment writ large, including the GOP, left and
:08:52. > :08:55.right. Looking at the last 20 years they say you haven't served us well,
:08:56. > :08:59.whether it is wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, the state of the
:09:00. > :09:03.economy, the bloated government, the fact if you get a job in government
:09:04. > :09:10.it's a job for life. The president is not from the establishment. As a
:09:11. > :09:14.result members of the establishment GOP will probably have problems with
:09:15. > :09:17.him but if you're surprised then you haven't watched his campaign and you
:09:18. > :09:21.don't know who this man is. Interesting analysis but if I may
:09:22. > :09:23.suggest one of the reasons the GOP, the Republican Party, is so
:09:24. > :09:27.concerned about Donald Trump's first six months is that his approval
:09:28. > :09:31.rating is at historic lows. Politicians look at the polls and
:09:32. > :09:35.whatever you say about the markets, and indeed it's true, the market is
:09:36. > :09:39.high and unemployment is low, but the bottom line is even with the
:09:40. > :09:43.economy performing well, Donald Trump is historically one of the
:09:44. > :09:48.most unpopular presidents after six months in the entire history of the
:09:49. > :09:52.United States. Stephen, I don't like are these the same polls that said
:09:53. > :09:55.Brexit wouldn't happen and Hillary would become president, are they the
:09:56. > :09:59.same polling companies? I'm talking about the way the Republican Party
:10:00. > :10:03.is reacting to the popular disapproval of Donald Trump. What do
:10:04. > :10:06.you base that popular disapproval on? Polls that predicted there would
:10:07. > :10:11.be no Brexit and that Hillary Clinton would win, those polls?
:10:12. > :10:14.You'd better ask the Republican politicians because I'm going to
:10:15. > :10:19.quote to you the sort of politicians, like for example Jock
:10:20. > :10:23.Grassley, the chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, who looked at
:10:24. > :10:28.the way Donald Trump has hung out his attorney general to dry, calling
:10:29. > :10:31.him very weak, saying he is disappointed in his beleaguered
:10:32. > :10:35.Attorney General and Chuck Grassley said this is wrong and if you even
:10:36. > :10:40.think about firing him, we in the Senate will thwart your attempts to
:10:41. > :10:43.appoint a six. That's what I think is the problem with the
:10:44. > :10:48.establishment on Hill. They don't understand. Last Tuesday I flew with
:10:49. > :10:52.the president to Youngstown, Ohio, where he had Aorangi and you should
:10:53. > :10:56.check out the footage of that rally, this is steel Valley, where the
:10:57. > :11:01.factories were closed down because of outsourcing and other issues in
:11:02. > :11:05.the last two decades. We are talking about a political type a rally,
:11:06. > :11:11.presidential type rally, eight months after an election. The
:11:12. > :11:15.atmosphere was electric. They barely allowed the president to talk
:11:16. > :11:20.because they were chanting so much for his agenda, make America great
:11:21. > :11:24.again. Doctor Gorka... I need to finish, Stephen, I'm going to
:11:25. > :11:28.finish. I need to make a point. I need to make a point. I didn't
:11:29. > :11:31.suggest Donald Trump didn't have passionate supporters, that's not
:11:32. > :11:37.what I was saying. I need to make the point the Paulding you have
:11:38. > :11:40.talking about has become like chronology, a fake science, the
:11:41. > :11:47.pollsters that Rodrigo Duterte a job and don't have the plus ten
:11:48. > :11:51.oversampling... Rasmus Elm, they just established a pole and just
:11:52. > :11:56.published one last week where they have 70%, 70% of the American
:11:57. > :12:00.populace are finally optimistic and happy in their general situation and
:12:01. > :12:04.their expectations. How is that possible, Stephen, if they are
:12:05. > :12:07.displeased with the President? How did we win a majority? You are
:12:08. > :12:11.shifting the ground because you dismissed polls and now you want to
:12:12. > :12:15.trade polling data. I could say ten polls if you want to do that that
:12:16. > :12:21.say he has historic low approval ratings. You can make your point
:12:22. > :12:25.about polls, I will make mine. The bottom line is this, if you take the
:12:26. > :12:29.reaction of the Republican Party both to his treatment of a
:12:30. > :12:35.Republican Attorney General that he appointed, Jeff Sessions, and if you
:12:36. > :12:39.also look at the failure of his signature policy platform pillar,
:12:40. > :12:43.that is to repeal Obamacare, you look at a president who after six
:12:44. > :12:48.months cannot get the support of his own party in the US Congress. Yeah,
:12:49. > :12:53.because the establishment doesn't understand what happened on November
:12:54. > :12:57.the eighth. Let's be clear here, you said Obamacare repeal and reform was
:12:58. > :13:00.a signature platform of his administration, not correct. It was
:13:01. > :13:04.important that the signature 3-part platform on which a billionaire real
:13:05. > :13:09.estate magnate from New York became the most powerful man in the world
:13:10. > :13:15.was to revitalise the economy, build the wall and defeat Isis. That speed
:13:16. > :13:19.3-part platform and we are going to make those things happen. With
:13:20. > :13:23.Obamacare, the president, in recognition, really you have to doff
:13:24. > :13:29.your hat to him, in recognition of the checks and balances and division
:13:30. > :13:33.of power in America said OK, GOP on the Hill, Congress, I'm going to let
:13:34. > :13:36.you lead the way on Obamacare reform. Why? Because they've been
:13:37. > :13:41.talking about it for seven years, Stephen. Not the president, Stephen,
:13:42. > :13:48.the president has been in office for seven months. These people have been
:13:49. > :13:52.saying for seven years we will repeal and we will reform and when
:13:53. > :13:55.he says gentlemen, lead the way, what happens? They failed. Not
:13:56. > :13:58.Donald Trump, the Republicans failed and now they're trying to make it
:13:59. > :14:02.look as though this is Donald Trump's fault, it isn't. You're
:14:03. > :14:05.making my point that there is now a profound rift between the president
:14:06. > :14:08.and the controlling party of both houses of the US government but
:14:09. > :14:13.let's move on from that and let's talk about the impact of the
:14:14. > :14:16.continuing extensive federal investigation into those allegations
:14:17. > :14:20.that Russia meddled in the US presidential election and further
:14:21. > :14:26.allegations that there may have been collusion with senior people in the
:14:27. > :14:32.Trump campaign. The investigation is digging ever deeper. How on earth...
:14:33. > :14:39.And finding nothing. How do you know? What do you mean how do I
:14:40. > :14:42.know? How do you know finding nothing, you privy to Robert
:14:43. > :14:46.Mueller's Special Counsel investigation? Ten months of
:14:47. > :14:48.hysteria and nobody, not one individual can point to one illegal
:14:49. > :14:58.act, not one. Isn't that strange? Robert Miller has not been working
:14:59. > :15:04.for more than a few months. How do you know that he is not finding
:15:05. > :15:15.incrementing evidence? -- Mueller. Orlando is the bubble has in excess.
:15:16. > :15:19.It is just absurd. -- all I know is the bubble has been obsessed. Have
:15:20. > :15:25.you ever heard of a story that has run for ten months, based on legal
:15:26. > :15:29.action, but has found none? I find it fascinating that just last week
:15:30. > :15:33.at Chuck Schumer from the Democrats have started to admit, you know
:15:34. > :15:37.what, in Hillary lost the election, and it was not about Russia, or a
:15:38. > :15:42.budgie is Comey. When the Democrat party is starting to do press
:15:43. > :15:49.conferences that say we need to look at the mirror, finally, because we
:15:50. > :15:55.haven't... -- James Kelly. As far as I understand it, this is not about
:15:56. > :16:00.who won the election, but about what the links work between Russian
:16:01. > :16:05.interference, which you know, the FBI and the intelligence agencies
:16:06. > :16:08.are 100% convinced happened, but the connections between that Russian
:16:09. > :16:12.interference and senior people in the current campaign. Now, we note
:16:13. > :16:16.because of revelations in the New York Times that would then backed up
:16:17. > :16:24.by e-mail evidence, we know that Donald Trump's son and Kushner had a
:16:25. > :16:28.meeting in June 2016, with a lawyer who had clear contact with the
:16:29. > :16:32.Russian government. -- Jared Kushner. And Donald Trump took that
:16:33. > :16:36.meeting knowing it was designed to give dirt on Hillary Clinton. That
:16:37. > :16:42.is a profound problem for your president. Now it is not. It is not.
:16:43. > :16:45.After the statement made by Jared Kushner last week of this superb
:16:46. > :16:50.statement he gave outside the West Wing after the testimony he gave
:16:51. > :16:55.behind close doors in congress, the thing is dead in the water. You need
:16:56. > :16:58.to read how the New York Times are now distancing themselves from the
:16:59. > :17:09.story, because they reel it is a massive nothing. You know who does
:17:10. > :17:15.not believe it? I do. Donald Trump himself tweeted that he was being
:17:16. > :17:26.investigated for firing the FBI Director why the man who told him to
:17:27. > :17:29.fired the direct. Donald Trump deals under investigation, so surely that
:17:30. > :17:35.is not nothing. You mentioned is meaty and Trump Tower long before
:17:36. > :17:42.the hysteria of Russia began. That was requested by a busy promoter. As
:17:43. > :17:46.a favour. There were misrepresented herself because she had some
:17:47. > :17:50.politically relevant information on Hillary Clinton. It turned out that
:17:51. > :17:54.she didn't. Then she switched the conversation immediately to adoption
:17:55. > :17:58.laws between the US and Russia. At that point, Donald Trump Jr entered
:17:59. > :18:02.the meeting, because it had been requested on false pretences, and
:18:03. > :18:07.nothing but a happen. At the same time, Hillary Clinton is embroiled
:18:08. > :18:10.with Russia after an act. Why? Because the DMZ, the Democrat
:18:11. > :18:17.National Congress, actually sent one of its consultants not to collect
:18:18. > :18:20.dirt on the trunk campaign, I will finish this, they said their own
:18:21. > :18:24.operative to the Embassy of a foreign nation, Ukraine, not just to
:18:25. > :18:31.collect dirt on the trunk campaign, but to co-ordinate an attack. That
:18:32. > :18:37.is a story. We will put in our next interview with a democratic
:18:38. > :18:42.representative, but you are here. But I say that when Robert Miller
:18:43. > :18:47.has expanded his investigation to investigate ties between Donald
:18:48. > :18:51.Trump and Russia, you have a profound problem that will not go
:18:52. > :18:55.away. -- Robert Mueller. You can call that a nothing burger as much
:18:56. > :19:00.as you like, but this is a burger with meat on it. It does not even
:19:01. > :19:04.have tofu, I'm afraid. It is an irrelevance. There is nothing there,
:19:05. > :19:11.and they spend their wheels as much as they like. How can you say there
:19:12. > :19:17.is nothing there when you have no idea what Robert Mueller is
:19:18. > :19:21.collecting? No idea at all. You can sell now television, but I actually
:19:22. > :19:26.work for the President of the United States, and when it does mean there
:19:27. > :19:34.is nothing there, I am going to trust my employer. -- insult me on
:19:35. > :19:37.television. You can insult me, but I will trust the President of the
:19:38. > :19:41.United States. And if you don't like that, you should look at the mirror
:19:42. > :19:49.and not insult your gas. No insult intended, just an observation. And
:19:50. > :19:57.don't call me names. You cannot tell me what Robert Mueller is
:19:58. > :20:00.discovering. I know what the President of the United States told
:20:01. > :20:04.me, and that is enough me, because I trust that man. I have no
:20:05. > :20:08.connections to Robert Mueller, and I trust the President of the United
:20:09. > :20:12.States. And for you to insult me is churlish and unprofessional. You
:20:13. > :20:16.made your absolute trust and Donald Trump very plain. Let's move on to
:20:17. > :20:20.national security, because that is what you are paid to do, advise on
:20:21. > :20:26.national security. North Korea. Donald Trump has issued many tweets
:20:27. > :20:30.telling North Korea it must desist from this missile test programme.
:20:31. > :20:33.The North Koreans are clearly not listening. Donald Trump now says it
:20:34. > :20:39.is China's fault because China is not using the influence it should.
:20:40. > :20:44.So what is the US do now? Well, the first thing we do is we don't give
:20:45. > :20:47.our playbook away. That is the Obama administration. They would tell you
:20:48. > :20:53.in advance what they were going to do, when they were going to Mosul or
:20:54. > :20:57.do XYZ. We don't tell regimes North Korea what we are going to do next.
:20:58. > :21:01.Because that is bad when you play poker, and potentially dangerous
:21:02. > :21:05.when you talk about geopolitics. What I can tell you is that since
:21:06. > :21:10.the Mar-a-Lago summit, when we had high hopes of Beijing exerting
:21:11. > :21:15.pressure on North Korea, we wanted to exert a programme of peaceful
:21:16. > :21:19.pressure with our partners, with the UN Security Council. It is now clear
:21:20. > :21:23.that that is not functional. It is not bringing the results. There is
:21:24. > :21:28.continued escalation by Pyongyang. And now we are looking for
:21:29. > :21:32.alternatives. But I am sorry I'm not there to tell you on BBC what we're
:21:33. > :21:36.going to do next. But Nikki Haley said the time for talk is over. So
:21:37. > :21:39.we have to assume that there are specific actions in the pipeline
:21:40. > :21:45.that we are going to see very quickly. You may assume that, yes.
:21:46. > :21:48.Let's talk about your special subject. You came into the White
:21:49. > :21:52.House of a long record of writing and working in think tanks. You had
:21:53. > :21:58.a clear positions and the United States is at war with radical Islam,
:21:59. > :22:02.and all other foreign policy issues need to be secondary to that. Am I
:22:03. > :22:06.right to assume that you were an advocate of ripping up the nuclear
:22:07. > :22:11.deal with Iran? I agreed with the analysis that I worked with General
:22:12. > :22:19.Flynn after the election, then they can to work for Mr Bannon. And I
:22:20. > :22:25.agree with our analysis from them. The deal is disastrous. It is not
:22:26. > :22:30.stop nuclear acquisition by Iran, but just a laser. And it is such a
:22:31. > :22:35.weak deal that it does not relate to lay them at all. -- it just delays
:22:36. > :22:41.them. -- it does not really delay them. And yet the Trump
:22:42. > :22:45.administration has said that Iran is respecting the deal, and if I may
:22:46. > :22:50.say so, looking at where we sit with the struggle against Isis, please
:22:51. > :22:58.End and push back in Mosul, and look like they will be pushed back in
:22:59. > :23:01.Raqqa, to. But you can say that the one country that is benefiting most
:23:02. > :23:07.from the situation in the Middle East at the moment is Iran. So your
:23:08. > :23:10.record as saying this threat exists, I'm struggling to see how the
:23:11. > :23:17.strategic position in the Middle East today is furthered by United
:23:18. > :23:21.States policy, helping national security. I never stated that Iran
:23:22. > :23:26.is the heart of the threat to the United States. In fact, I said we
:23:27. > :23:31.inherited a world on fire, thanks to the Obama administration's policy of
:23:32. > :23:38.leading from behind, whether it you look at Isis, China, Iran, or North
:23:39. > :23:43.Korea. We inherited a maelstrom. But when it comes to the jihadist threat
:23:44. > :23:47.to America, I concur with Netanyahu, when he addressed congress, saying
:23:48. > :23:52.all you need to know about the inferno in the Middle East and North
:23:53. > :23:54.Africa is that it is a Game of Thrones for the crown of the
:23:55. > :24:02.caliphate. We have two different versions of a caliphate. We have the
:24:03. > :24:12.70s, such as Al Qaeda and Isis, the extreme Sunnis, and we have the
:24:13. > :24:20.others. -- we have the Sunnis. I wish we had more time, Sebastian
:24:21. > :24:21.Gorka. But we don't. Thank you for being on HARDtalk. Thank