:00:00. > :00:17.When the Al Jazeera news network was launched in Qatar in 1996,
:00:18. > :00:21.it had a seismic impact on the media landscape in the Middle East.
:00:22. > :00:27.Here was an Arab broadcaster refusing to play by local rules.
:00:28. > :00:29.It was ambitious, punchy and provocative in its coverage
:00:30. > :00:37.Two decades on, maybe it's time for payback.
:00:38. > :00:40.Saudi Arabia and its closest allies recently demanded Qatar close
:00:41. > :00:45.My guest is Mostefa Souag, director general of Al Jazeera.
:00:46. > :01:32.We have to start with the threat of closure that appeared to be hanging
:01:33. > :01:37.over Al Jazeera just a few short days ago. The threat of course which
:01:38. > :01:41.came from Saudi Arabia and its allies, which demanded the closing
:01:42. > :01:47.of the Al Jazeera network as a condition for lifting an economic
:01:48. > :01:52.blockade on Kantar. Weekly with me. -- Qatar. Is there still a risk you
:01:53. > :01:57.may have to shut down? Well, first of all I would like to say that Al
:01:58. > :02:01.Jazeera has created the new media environment in the Middle East, in
:02:02. > :02:08.the Arab world. There is something that is called before Al Jazeera and
:02:09. > :02:16.since Al Jazeera. The threat that this -- these countries are
:02:17. > :02:24.targeting Al Jazeera is of course... Any threat is a serious threat for
:02:25. > :02:28.us, but Qatar has said clearly that Al Jazeera is not for negotiation.
:02:29. > :02:33.We don't feel any threat whatsoever in this respect. The only thing that
:02:34. > :02:38.we are sorry for is that we don't have the chance to be in the field
:02:39. > :02:42.in these countries because reporting from the field is what we do best.
:02:43. > :02:47.However, we will continue reporting about these countries and about all
:02:48. > :02:52.other countries whenever there is an issue of relevance to our audience.
:02:53. > :02:56.It is very unlikely you will get out your presence in Saudi Arabia, for
:02:57. > :03:00.example, when the information minister that describes you as a
:03:01. > :03:06.defamation tool of manufactured news. You've become an instrument,
:03:07. > :03:10.he says, in the hands of Al Qaeda, Daesh, so-called Islamic State, and
:03:11. > :03:15.Hezbollah. It doesn't sound like the Saudis will want you back any time
:03:16. > :03:21.soon. Maybe not, but the information minister just days before the
:03:22. > :03:25.decision was made by this country -- these countries was welcoming Al
:03:26. > :03:30.Jazeera as a professional media institution. There was no problem
:03:31. > :03:35.then. What kind of revelation that he got in order to make such a
:03:36. > :03:41.statement? Al Jazeera has never been such a thing as we mentioned and we
:03:42. > :03:46.have never received any specific complaint from the Saudis, or from
:03:47. > :03:52.any of the countries, except in certain cases with certain countries
:03:53. > :03:55.when they complain about our professional reporting, because they
:03:56. > :03:59.don't like us to tell the truth, they don't like us to tell people
:04:00. > :04:05.what's going on exactly. They don't want us to bring opposition leaders
:04:06. > :04:09.to discuss the issue, et cetera. That's the only complaint we found
:04:10. > :04:12.and that kind of complaint is actually our benefit because it
:04:13. > :04:17.shows how professional we are. You call it truth telling, it isn't
:04:18. > :04:23.always seen as truth telling, is it? It is seen as polemic and opinion
:04:24. > :04:26.which you inject into your coverage. We should be clear for your
:04:27. > :04:29.audiences around the world that the criticism is aimed at Al Jazeera
:04:30. > :04:36.Arabic rather than Al Jazeera English. But the quote someone from
:04:37. > :04:40.the Arab Gulf state's institute, a respected think tank, he says of Al
:04:41. > :04:44.Jazeera Arabic it goes much further than Fox News. He says it is like
:04:45. > :04:53.Fox News on steroids, flirting with the promotion of violence. Mmm. I
:04:54. > :04:59.don't really know how respected this man or this institution...
:05:00. > :05:04.Especially when it deals with Al Jazeera. It is obvious that he is
:05:05. > :05:13.following the political line of the country where he is. However, I can
:05:14. > :05:17.tell you that just recently we had tried to look into the publications
:05:18. > :05:22.about Al Jazeera. There are more than 280 books and Ph.D.
:05:23. > :05:28.Dissertations and masters degrees, et cetera, in addition to hundreds
:05:29. > :05:33.and hundreds of academic papers. All of them consider Al Jazeera a very
:05:34. > :05:40.highly professional institution. They don't agree with him at all.
:05:41. > :05:44.Now, when I am saying this I am talking about Al Jazeera in general.
:05:45. > :05:48.Arabic, English, et cetera. What's the difference between Al Jazeera
:05:49. > :05:51.Arabic and Al Jazeera English? Some people try to make the distinction
:05:52. > :05:55.in the Arab world in particular to give the impression to the Western
:05:56. > :06:00.academics or the Western audience that Al Jazeera Arabic is different
:06:01. > :06:07.from Al Jazeera English. That's not true. I can show you... Excuse me,
:06:08. > :06:11.just one minute. There are so many articles and studies that show there
:06:12. > :06:17.is no difference in our editorial line. The difference is in certain
:06:18. > :06:20.topics, as in some cases we cover things for our audience in the
:06:21. > :06:26.Middle East that is not covered by English and vice-versa. Because...
:06:27. > :06:29.Let me stop you. We are interested in giving our audience what is
:06:30. > :06:33.relevant to our audience, not what is not relevant. I can give you many
:06:34. > :06:37.examples of this. I do want to rely on the testimony of those who
:06:38. > :06:41.clearly come from countries where there is a decision taken at Al
:06:42. > :06:44.Jazeera is very bad news. I want to rely more on the testimony of people
:06:45. > :06:49.who'd actually worked inside your organisation. Let me start with Greg
:06:50. > :06:54.Colstream Park a former staffer on Al Jazeera who was there for nearly
:06:55. > :06:57.four years. I don't know if you know him personally but on this first
:06:58. > :07:02.issue of whether the difference is significant between Al Jazeera
:07:03. > :07:07.English and Arabic, he says, quote, there was and there still is a vast
:07:08. > :07:11.gulf between Arabic and Al Jazeera English. They share a name but
:07:12. > :07:15.little else, even operating out of separate buildings, across the
:07:16. > :07:18.street from each other, and their editorial lines are very sharply
:07:19. > :07:23.different. Now he's not one of your enemies, he used to work for Al
:07:24. > :07:28.Jazeera. I don't know, I don't consider him an enemy, I just would
:07:29. > :07:32.like to ask you. Could you ask him if we understand Arabic and he has
:07:33. > :07:38.been watching Al Jazeera Arabic very seriously in order to make such a
:07:39. > :07:44.statement? That's an interesting... No, it is very important because in
:07:45. > :07:48.certain cases people pronounce or make this kind of pronouncement
:07:49. > :07:52.without being able to even understand what's going on. That's
:07:53. > :07:59.an interesting point. The topics, the issues are different, you see,
:08:00. > :08:04.but the editorial line is the same. We don't use two different editorial
:08:05. > :08:08.lines. That very point you made has been used against you. For example,
:08:09. > :08:12.the UAE ambassador who was on HARDtalk a few days ago spoke about
:08:13. > :08:16.this problem of the messages that come out of Al Jazeera and he said,
:08:17. > :08:19.the problem is that many of the journalist in Al Jazeera English
:08:20. > :08:23.don't understand Arabic and they are now going to the barricades,
:08:24. > :08:27.standing up for what they think is an issue of press freedom, when they
:08:28. > :08:31.don't even realise that the messages coming out of Al Jazeera Arabic are
:08:32. > :08:37.different and they are being used in effect as a fig leaf for extremism.
:08:38. > :08:41.That's what the ambassador says. Well, I'm really sorry to hear such
:08:42. > :08:45.a thing from the ambassador. I know the ambassador, to Moscow, I
:08:46. > :08:50.believe. That's right. I can tell you something. These people, they
:08:51. > :08:55.have never complained about our coverage, except now after the
:08:56. > :09:01.blockade started they have started speaking about Al Jazeera is
:09:02. > :09:05.supporting terrorism. Now, I have seen some of their advertisers and
:09:06. > :09:12.some of the videos that they put online -- advertisements. They are
:09:13. > :09:16.taken out of context and I can read to you some of the things they said,
:09:17. > :09:22.compared to what actually happened on Al Jazeera. It is false that
:09:23. > :09:25.occasion, distorting. -- falsification. Unfortunately you
:09:26. > :09:31.can't take the testimony of such a person very seriously. It's not true
:09:32. > :09:36.and we can go into details if you like. We will go into a few details,
:09:37. > :09:39.let's keep it as brief and simple as we can. The coverage matters and
:09:40. > :09:43.people around the world will have to judge for themselves whether you're
:09:44. > :09:48.reporting has, as you put it, being truth telling. Starting in Syria,
:09:49. > :09:54.for example. Let's talk about the man who was your correspondent based
:09:55. > :09:58.in Germany. He quit in 2012 because he says your coverage of serious
:09:59. > :10:07.since the rioting began in 2011 has become so partisan and one-sided he
:10:08. > :10:13.could not stomach it any more. Yes. He was a very good reporter. He was
:10:14. > :10:18.the editorial chief in Germany for Al Jazeera Arabic and he is one of
:10:19. > :10:24.two or three people who actually left Al Jazeera on their own. He
:10:25. > :10:31.decided to go. Not the ones where we decided him to go and he claimed he
:10:32. > :10:38.resigned. So he resigned for the very simple reason that he is 100%
:10:39. > :10:43.with the Assad regime and he couldn't swallow the fact that we
:10:44. > :10:47.were reporting from the field about the revolution, about the
:10:48. > :10:55.resistance, about the opposition, et cetera. This is what he couldn't
:10:56. > :10:59.take. Hang on... I don't have any information, I don't have sure
:11:00. > :11:03.information, but I assumed that he was actually forced by the
:11:04. > :11:09.government to do so. You can't... You can't this merge his reputation
:11:10. > :11:14.on air like that without frankly giving him the right of reply. We
:11:15. > :11:18.don't know what his right of reply would say to that, but it sounds
:11:19. > :11:22.very odd that you stay on the one hand he was a journalist of high
:11:23. > :11:26.reputation whom you chose to employ as one of your most senior
:11:27. > :11:29.correspondence and then when he comes out with a statement that he
:11:30. > :11:33.is deeply unhappy with your reporting you say he is unacceptably
:11:34. > :11:39.partisan. You can't have it both ways. I agree with you. And I still
:11:40. > :11:42.respect the guy, but I'm telling you that probably that's what I was
:11:43. > :11:48.going to say. Most probably he was forced to do that by the agents of
:11:49. > :11:55.the Syrian government. I don't have any information on this, however, he
:11:56. > :12:00.never came to told us will -- tell us what we did wrong in Syria. We
:12:01. > :12:06.were covering Syria very professionally. Maybe it's because,
:12:07. > :12:10.forgive me for interrupting, but Winnie Together Group is, maybe one
:12:11. > :12:15.of his problems was that when you have been covering the growth in
:12:16. > :12:24.radical Islamist militant groups in Syria, for example one of the Al
:12:25. > :12:30.Qaeda affiliate groups, you have had on air commentators describing them
:12:31. > :12:34.as" moderate opposition" to basher al-Assad. Anyone who thinks Al Qaeda
:12:35. > :12:39.affiliate is moderate is taking a very jaundiced view of what's
:12:40. > :12:46.happening in Syria, aren't they? Yes, but at the time when he
:12:47. > :12:50.resigned I don't think this issue was raised at all. Not with us, by
:12:51. > :12:57.him or by any other... This is an issue I'm raising.
:12:58. > :13:04.I just want to finish with him. I am not accusing him of anything, I am
:13:05. > :13:09.just saying that maybe he was forced, he was threatened. He never
:13:10. > :13:13.came to Al Jazeera and said, this report or that report was wrong. It
:13:14. > :13:18.has never happened. I can challenge him and he can come and show me with
:13:19. > :13:24.whom he talked. When we cover Syria, like we cover everything else, we
:13:25. > :13:31.cover all the opposition to the system as we hoped that to cover the
:13:32. > :13:36.government as well. At this moment, we are still asking the government
:13:37. > :13:41.or Syria to allow us to work inside, wherever the government controls the
:13:42. > :13:47.areas. They refuse. They refuse to even answer our letters. For the
:13:48. > :13:51.rest, we cover everything that we can. There is no reason for Al
:13:52. > :13:57.Jazeera not to cover something just because somebody doesn't want us to
:13:58. > :14:03.cover it. We bring knowledge and information to our audience. It is a
:14:04. > :14:07.question of how you present things. If we manufactured of also buy
:14:08. > :14:13.something, you can tell me about it. For the rest we are talking about
:14:14. > :14:17.people who are fighting... We see they are fighting Assad, whether
:14:18. > :14:24.they are good our bad is not our business -- or. It seems a
:14:25. > :14:28.remarkable coincidence that, on all the key positions that the cut our
:14:29. > :14:32.government has taken in regional affairs and issues in recent years,
:14:33. > :14:36.the Al Jazeera network appears to have backed those positions
:14:37. > :14:43.completely. Yet you say you never have any interference or any contact
:14:44. > :14:47.with the ruling family of Qatar, which completely funds your network.
:14:48. > :14:57.It just seems a very remarkable coincidence. It is, isn't it?
:14:58. > :15:02.However, let's get back to the state of Qatar that finances Al Jazeera.
:15:03. > :15:11.How much does it cost every year? That is not something to be... That
:15:12. > :15:14.is not revealed here. Why? We are both journalists who believe in
:15:15. > :15:23.transparency. Why can't we discussed... I am not allowed to
:15:24. > :15:29.tell you now the number. Who is stopping you? Nobody is stopping...
:15:30. > :15:34.Nobody is stopping me, but there are issues, there are many issues
:15:35. > :15:40.related to this. I don't think this is the real issue with Al Jazeera. I
:15:41. > :15:44.think it is important. Whether it is half $1 million or $1 billion, it is
:15:45. > :15:50.not the issue. The issue is what happened on the ground. Where there
:15:51. > :15:56.is defer is by the Qatar government or not. Except for the very few
:15:57. > :16:00.times in my life that I met with the Qatar officials, political
:16:01. > :16:04.officials, outside Al Jazeera, nothing to do with Al Jazeera, I
:16:05. > :16:09.have never talked to them and they have never talked to me about
:16:10. > :16:15.anything that was put on screen. You just used... Whether you believe it
:16:16. > :16:20.or not is something else. You just used a very interesting phrase. You
:16:21. > :16:24.said, I am not allowed to tell you that. I want to know who sets the
:16:25. > :16:29.rules as to what you are and I'm not able to say to me as a fellow
:16:30. > :16:32.journalist about the way your network works. Most international
:16:33. > :16:38.news networks believe in transparency. We know who fund them,
:16:39. > :16:43.we know how they operate and we know what the owners do in terms of
:16:44. > :16:50.editorial guidance. In the case of Al Jazeera, there is no transparency
:16:51. > :16:54.at all. When it comes to the budget, usually we don't publish the
:16:55. > :16:58.information. Who decides this? I am not telling you. The budget
:16:59. > :17:02.committee decides that, at this moment, we should not put that
:17:03. > :17:09.figure to the public. At this moment. Maybe in future. What you
:17:10. > :17:13.and the public need to know is that our, maybe 90% of our budget comes
:17:14. > :17:18.from the government. That is enough for you. All the things that you see
:17:19. > :17:24.at financed by the government, by the state of Qatar. My understanding
:17:25. > :17:31.was that the mayor of Qatar said, you are completely independent. You
:17:32. > :17:36.are independent, we just finance you. We try to be independent as
:17:37. > :17:40.much as it can be in any environment. However, you have to
:17:41. > :17:45.understand, Stephen, that you guys in the West, you work in a very
:17:46. > :17:49.Democratic environment. You work in a very safe environment. Here are
:17:50. > :17:54.released, as you can see, the threats against Al Jazeera, this
:17:55. > :18:03.area is not an easy area to work in. Yet we are among the most courageous
:18:04. > :18:07.and the boldest and the best in doing investigative reporting and
:18:08. > :18:12.showing what needs to be shown. This is what you have to take into
:18:13. > :18:20.consideration. Let's talk about your relationship with the Qatar
:18:21. > :18:23.authorities. One of your senior political analyst recently described
:18:24. > :18:28.all of the countries lined up against you at the moment, Saudi
:18:29. > :18:32.Arabia, the Gulf states, the UAE and Egypt, he described them as
:18:33. > :18:37.dictatorships. How would you describe the Qatar government? I
:18:38. > :18:42.don't think it is a dictatorship. I think there is a difference between,
:18:43. > :18:47.you have royalty in England. Of course it is different, it is
:18:48. > :18:57.constitutional royalty. There is a royal family in Saudi Arabia and
:18:58. > :19:01.your man called it a dictatorship. Why is Qatar not a dictatorship?
:19:02. > :19:07.Look at the difference in practices in the two countries. Excuse me. I
:19:08. > :19:11.don't want, I am here to talk about Al Jazeera in the media, not about
:19:12. > :19:16.the political situation. Leave me, I am not afraid to talk about it, it
:19:17. > :19:21.is just that this is taking the attention away from the real issue
:19:22. > :19:27.that is facing the media. Media is in a very serious problem in the
:19:28. > :19:35.Middle East, in North Africa and many countries, including Latin
:19:36. > :19:42.America. There is a regression in freedom of the media. Hearing Qatar,
:19:43. > :19:46.in Al Jazeera, we have complete independence. If that is not
:19:47. > :19:57.understandable, I can understand you. How come you... -- here in. I
:19:58. > :20:01.have to say, your argument is, in some ways powerful, but in some ways
:20:02. > :20:05.is losing me. I agree there is a crisis of trust in media across the
:20:06. > :20:10.world. The only way to address that is by being very transparent and
:20:11. > :20:14.clear about the way we operate. You operate out of Qatar, you are
:20:15. > :20:18.completely funded by the Qatar government. You say to me that there
:20:19. > :20:24.is no comparison between some of your present enemies such as Saudi
:20:25. > :20:30.Arabia, Egypt and the government of Qatar. I would put to use a precise
:20:31. > :20:33.opposite. Look at the most recent reports from Amnesty international
:20:34. > :20:37.and Human Rights Watch. They said Qatar is no more a democracy than
:20:38. > :20:42.the other Gulf countries. The Amnesty International report said
:20:43. > :20:47.Qatar authorities continue to unduly restrict the rights to freedom of
:20:48. > :20:52.expression, association and assembly. When it comes to the
:20:53. > :20:58.media, in December 2016, an independent news service in Doha was
:20:59. > :21:02.blocked from all of its Internet service providers. You try and
:21:03. > :21:07.justify that to me, and tell me that Qatar is fundamentally different
:21:08. > :21:13.from the other occupants of your region. I am not telling you that
:21:14. > :21:17.Qatar is a Democratic country yet. I think there have been a lot of good
:21:18. > :21:25.developments in Qatar. In so many respects. We believe it is coming,
:21:26. > :21:35.the full democracy. There are now study is going on in order to allow
:21:36. > :21:39.the journalists in Qatar deunionise, the same thing with Al Jazeera.
:21:40. > :21:44.These things are coming. I believe it will be coming. You sound like a
:21:45. > :21:49.minister from the Qatar government. When it comes to freedom of
:21:50. > :21:54.assembly, expression, freedom of workers to associate in unions, look
:21:55. > :21:58.at the treatment of migrant workers who are supposed to be building
:21:59. > :22:03.facilities for the World Cup. You know that on all of these issues,
:22:04. > :22:10.your network has failed to report the truth from your own host
:22:11. > :22:14.country. There are two things. Firstly, Al Jazeera has made so many
:22:15. > :22:19.reports on this particular issue that you are talking about. The
:22:20. > :22:27.condition of workers. The workers, again, you say that I am taking the
:22:28. > :22:32.hat of a Qatar Minister. If the truth is they are, you have to say
:22:33. > :22:36.it. I said I don't want to talk about politics but you are
:22:37. > :22:42.insisting. I say that there are issues, nobody is saying that Qatar
:22:43. > :22:50.is 100% a democracy, everything is free, et cetera. We are in progress,
:22:51. > :22:53.we are working toward this. The government believes in it, members
:22:54. > :22:59.of the governments believe in those things, but it takes time. I hope to
:23:00. > :23:02.see one day soon, all of these liberties that you are talking
:23:03. > :23:07.about. I will see them on the ground. I do have certain faith that
:23:08. > :23:12.it is going to be. But if you want to discuss this particular issue
:23:13. > :23:17.about Qatar, you need to talk to the Foreign Minister or the justice
:23:18. > :23:22.minister, not to me. I don't have the power to do it. I am telling you
:23:23. > :23:28.that within Al Jazeera, we do what is professionally right. That is
:23:29. > :23:32.without defence from the government. I understand it is difficult to
:23:33. > :23:37.understand. For a worked for Al Jazeera, I didn't believe it. But I
:23:38. > :23:42.saw it with my own eyes, I experienced it and I leave it.
:23:43. > :23:52.That's how it is. We have to end there, but I thank you very much for
:23:53. > :24:06.joining me on HARDtalk, Mostefa Souag. You are welcome, thank you.