:00:13. > :00:19.The latest headlines. President Trump has been spelling out his
:00:20. > :00:25.administration's new policy on Afghanistan. He did say he was going
:00:26. > :00:30.against his original instinct for withdrawal. He said that leave a
:00:31. > :00:33.vacuum for terrorists. He said the US expected more help from Pakistani
:00:34. > :00:40.and India to prevent the Taliban and taking over.
:00:41. > :00:43.is to pause operations worldwide to reassess safety measures
:00:44. > :00:45.for its fleet after one of its destroyers collided
:00:46. > :00:51.The chief of naval operations says there's no indication the collision
:00:52. > :00:56.Four men accused of being part of a terror cell which killed
:00:57. > :00:59.fifteen people in Spain last week are to appear this morning
:01:00. > :01:05.Police in Catalonia say they've shot dead Younes Abouyaaqoub -
:01:06. > :01:40.driver of the van that killed thirteen people in Barcelona.
:01:41. > :01:53.HARDtalk is on the road in Benghazi, Libya. I am Stephen Sackur. This
:01:54. > :01:57.city has been ripped apart by six years of conflict. Thousands have
:01:58. > :02:02.been killed, tens of thousands have fled. Eastern Libya and the West are
:02:03. > :02:07.run by rival political institutions but there is now something
:02:08. > :02:14.resembling a functioning authority here, imposed by the military
:02:15. > :02:21.strongman in eastern Libya, Marshal Khalifah Haftar. Can the commander
:02:22. > :02:43.who once served Kadhafi pull Libya back from the brink? My journey to
:02:44. > :02:53.Libya starts with a little piece of history. The first scheduled flight
:02:54. > :03:02.bound to Benghazi in three years. The city's airport was closed down
:03:03. > :03:08.by heavy fighting in 2014. Back then, jihadists seized most of the
:03:09. > :03:27.city. Those days are over. Thank you. OK, buy.
:03:28. > :03:41.So here we have one small sign of normality returning to one Libyan
:03:42. > :03:47.city. The terminal building is nothing but a shed. The right many
:03:48. > :03:55.flights. But to the people of Benghazi, this feels like the
:03:56. > :04:01.lifting of a siege. This is what the war left behind. Entire
:04:02. > :04:09.neighbourhoods of Benghazi deserted, reduced to rubble. This is one of
:04:10. > :04:17.the last readouts of so-called Islamic State. Benghazi University
:04:18. > :04:22.was seen in some of the fiercest fighting. This one splendid campus,
:04:23. > :04:30.built by German architects in the 1950s, was turned into a military
:04:31. > :04:35.base and training camp by the jihadists. This university used to
:04:36. > :04:41.be the pride of Benghazi. Now it is just rotting in the sun. It will
:04:42. > :04:43.need a massive reconstruction effort to revive this place and there was
:04:44. > :05:00.no sign of it starting. The origins of the chaos can be
:05:01. > :05:05.found in 2011. Colonel Gaddafi's planned assault on an uprising in
:05:06. > :05:12.Benghazi brought Western powers into a conflict which ended with his
:05:13. > :05:16.overthrow. With Gaddafi Gawn, President Sarkozy of France and
:05:17. > :05:27.Prime Minister Cameron of Britain rushed to Benghazi to claim credit.
:05:28. > :05:31.Colonel Gaddafi said he would hunt you down like rats but you showed
:05:32. > :05:35.the courage of Lions and we salute your courage. But the feelgood
:05:36. > :06:13.factor was fleeting. Post Gaddafi Libya plunged into
:06:14. > :06:23.anarchy. In Benghazi, radical Islamist factions took control. They
:06:24. > :06:32.killed the US ambassador. In 2014, of fightback against the jihadists
:06:33. > :06:41.began in eastern Libya. It was started by this man, Marshal Haftar,
:06:42. > :06:47.a top man in Kadhafi's army until the men fell out in the 1980s.
:06:48. > :06:52.Marshal Haftar took charge of the self-proclaimed Libyan national army
:06:53. > :07:04.and vowed to liberate Benghazi from the Islamist militants. It took him
:07:05. > :07:10.three years. Only now are residents who fled the neighbourhood making a
:07:11. > :07:16.tentative return. This man, Abdul, agrees to show me around. This was
:07:17. > :07:38.your house? How do you feel now when you look at it?
:07:39. > :07:45.But this whole neighbourhood has been ruined. Look around. There is
:07:46. > :07:57.no way to anybody should live here now, is there?
:07:58. > :08:03.The last three years of fighting in Benghazi took thousands of lives and
:08:04. > :08:12.forced tens of thousands out of their homes. This family is now
:08:13. > :08:18.rebuilding their house but some things can't be restored. More
:08:19. > :08:22.common's 19-year-old brother was executed, beheaded, by the
:08:23. > :08:34.militants. How can you be sure that the war will not return?
:08:35. > :08:41.If we look around your neighbourhood, it is destroyed, so
:08:42. > :08:49.it seems crazy to spend so much money rebuilding here.
:08:50. > :08:54.So if I come back in five years' time, what is Ganfouda going to look
:08:55. > :09:08.like? There is no mistaking who is in
:09:09. > :09:14.charge in Benghazi now. Marshal Haftar glowers down from a thousand
:09:15. > :09:18.billboards. Haftar and his army see this as a turning point for Libya,
:09:19. > :09:26.order replacing chaos thanks to military rule. In downtown Benghazi,
:09:27. > :09:33.there are still checkpoints and no go areas. For much of the conflict,
:09:34. > :09:41.the front line between the jihadists and Haftar's forces ran alongside
:09:42. > :09:45.the Tibesti Hotel, which looms over the city centre. Close by, we found
:09:46. > :09:51.a gaggle of local supporters of the man they call their saviour. Are
:09:52. > :09:55.more than three years, we have been suffering as the people of Benghazi.
:09:56. > :10:00.Thousands have been displaced but luckily, fortunately, they are back
:10:01. > :10:08.to their homes because of the state hands of the Libyan army under
:10:09. > :10:14.martial Haftar. What you want to see now, do you want to see Marshall
:10:15. > :10:18.Haftar marching to Tripoli? They wanting to be the president of
:10:19. > :10:23.Libya... That he would be a dictator. Is not a dictator. In
:10:24. > :10:29.three years, this guy had given the freedom and confidence, not only for
:10:30. > :10:35.army officers but for police, intelligence, internal security.
:10:36. > :10:39.Everything. You really think... He gave us peace. You think you would
:10:40. > :10:50.be a good president for this country? He is truly a good leader.
:10:51. > :10:58.Libya is a country of desert, vast distances and disparate tribes. It
:10:59. > :11:06.is also a land rich in oil and gas. The reserves are pumped to the
:11:07. > :11:15.coast, the so-called oil crescents. This is Brega, a sprawling complex
:11:16. > :11:24.run by the National oil Company, the MOC, owned by the state. Awad guides
:11:25. > :11:35.me around this ageing plant. Is this from the chimneys? It is not a new
:11:36. > :11:40.plant. It depends on the fuel. All well was the glue that held in
:11:41. > :11:47.Kadhafi's fight them together. -- or ill. After his demise, the jihadists
:11:48. > :11:52.tied -- the jihadists tried to get their hands on these assets, they
:11:53. > :11:56.failed, and now the martial's army rules the oil crescents. There have
:11:57. > :12:00.been times over the past six years when it looks like the violence and
:12:01. > :12:05.political chaos in Libya could shut down this vital industry but that
:12:06. > :12:10.has never quite happened. The oil and the gas is still flowing but as
:12:11. > :12:14.for the revenue being generated, well, much of the money is being
:12:15. > :12:22.creamed off by different warlords and militias.
:12:23. > :12:29.I've looked around your facilities, it seems to me you have equipment
:12:30. > :12:33.from the 1950s, 1960s... Yes, you are right. You need a lot of
:12:34. > :12:42.investment. Yes, yes. Who is going to give you the money? NOC, as
:12:43. > :12:49.usual, NOC. But they are not. There is a problem. The political
:12:50. > :12:52.situation in Libya now, the government, the army... It sounds
:12:53. > :12:58.like from what you are saying that it is currently impossible for you
:12:59. > :13:07.to develop this facility. For the time being, yes. Without investment,
:13:08. > :13:13.capital investment or without money, we cannot do anything. Only we are
:13:14. > :13:20.trying to keep the oil company alive. This is a disaster the Libya.
:13:21. > :13:26.Oil and gas is the lifeblood of your country. Of course, it's a disaster
:13:27. > :13:31.and this disaster started since 2011. But now, there is improvement.
:13:32. > :13:40.We feel there is improvement. The east of Libya is completely
:13:41. > :13:44.controlled by Mr Haftar, and the south of Libya as well. Just the
:13:45. > :13:49.west of Libya which is controlled by militia. I think, in the nearest
:13:50. > :13:57.future, all this problem will be solved. As you sit here with me
:13:58. > :14:07.today, are you confident they will? Insha'Allah. Libya TV, based in
:14:08. > :14:19.Benghazi, is projecting a message of change.
:14:20. > :14:26.The outside world associates Libya with images of violence, terrorism
:14:27. > :14:32.and people smuggling. But here, they lead the news with martial Haftar's
:14:33. > :14:39.latest pronouncements on terrorists vanquished and order restored.
:14:40. > :14:50.But this is what you don't see on Libya TV. Disturbing evidence has
:14:51. > :14:54.surfaced on the Internet of Haftar's forces seemingly conducting summary
:14:55. > :14:58.executions. The International Criminal Court is investigating this
:14:59. > :15:03.as a war crime and has issued an arrest warrant for the officer in
:15:04. > :15:11.charge. Our command, you said that you report the truth to the people
:15:12. > :15:27.but how independent are you? -- Ahmed.
:15:28. > :15:36.The UN yesterday issued a report which expressed very serious concern
:15:37. > :15:45.about allegations with evidence of war crimes committed by the Libyan
:15:46. > :15:49.national army during their operations in Ganfouda in much of
:15:50. > :15:50.this year. As your network free to report and investigate those
:15:51. > :16:33.allegations? There are people inside Libya and
:16:34. > :16:39.outside Libya who worry that Khalifa Haftar is a military man, and he may
:16:40. > :16:43.end up moving to Tripoli and seeking the leadership of this country. As a
:16:44. > :16:50.journalist, do you think it would be very dangerous for Libya to have, as
:16:51. > :17:15.the nation's leader, in military man, not a civilian politician?
:17:16. > :17:29.There are pockets of normality in Benghazi. Places where the tide of
:17:30. > :17:36.violence seems to have been stemmed. But the calm at the beach can't
:17:37. > :17:43.disguise an undercurrent of tension. Our movements in the city have to be
:17:44. > :17:48.co-ordinated with Khalifa Haftar's military command. It is a city of
:17:49. > :17:53.checkpoints, security patrols, and plain clothes ages. When we try to
:17:54. > :18:00.film food being handed to the poor, we were stopped. I came here on the
:18:01. > :18:05.promise of a rare interview with Khalifa Haftar. But he changed his
:18:06. > :18:10.mind. He cancelled at the last minute. He presents himself as a
:18:11. > :18:18.defender of freedom, but it seems he doesn't welcome scrutiny of his own
:18:19. > :18:25.record. Last month, Khalifa Haftar went to Paris, to meet the Prime
:18:26. > :18:33.Minister of the rival, Tripoli -based government. The Libyan rivals
:18:34. > :18:40.committed themselves to a cease-fire and nationwide elections next year.
:18:41. > :18:43.But Khalifa Haftar's army now controls three quarters of Libyan
:18:44. > :18:47.territory. He and his isn't government think that they can call
:18:48. > :18:52.the shots. Do you believe in a political solution to Libya's
:18:53. > :18:59.problems, or do think there will have to be a military solution?
:19:00. > :19:06.Because you're mad, -- because your man, Khalifa Haftar, police he can
:19:07. > :19:12.provide the Mercury solution. Mr Khalifa Haftar is working with his
:19:13. > :19:17.compatriots. But he is a soldier, not a politician. But he is
:19:18. > :19:22.concerned about rebuilding the authority of the state over our
:19:23. > :19:28.national territories, because the authority of the state has been
:19:29. > :19:32.rebuffed. This in favour of militia who have the upper hand and are
:19:33. > :19:40.sending terrorists to neighbouring countries. In June, 2015, 27 UK
:19:41. > :19:43.nationals were slaughtered, were killed, by a terrorist who was
:19:44. > :19:54.trained in western Libya, in which, right now, we have big problems.
:19:55. > :20:02.This, it if you will excuse me, could be an attempt to represent
:20:03. > :20:08.yourselves as those in the East who are defenders of freedom and
:20:09. > :20:12.justice. I think he is increasingly trusted. He has had many meetings
:20:13. > :20:16.with Western ambassadors here in Libya, and abroad. I don't think
:20:17. > :20:22.that I would agree with your contention. I think what diplomats
:20:23. > :20:26.do is they look at Khalifa Haftar's record, and how he conducts his
:20:27. > :20:33.operations, and they look at what is happening in Benghazi. You will have
:20:34. > :20:36.read the latest UN report which says that as Khalifa Haftar moved his
:20:37. > :20:42.forces back into Benghazi, there were egregious abuses of human
:20:43. > :20:48.rights. That is in which bothers the international community. People as
:20:49. > :20:56.us to. These reports came out, and he voiced his concerns. He said that
:20:57. > :21:06.we had to investigate these acts - beat outlawed axe. -- these outlawed
:21:07. > :21:11.acts. Have you seen the pictures of people being tortured, and executed?
:21:12. > :21:19.I have, unfortunate. These acts should stop. The army will look into
:21:20. > :21:24.that seriously. But let us be blunt and honest here for a moment,
:21:25. > :21:28.Foreign Minister. You sit here is a civilian Minister politician, but
:21:29. > :21:33.you do not call the shots. The military does, led by Khalifa
:21:34. > :21:37.Haftar. And I quote you the Economist intelligence unit. Looking
:21:38. > :21:44.at the ground on the east, they say it looks as if there is a drift to
:21:45. > :21:48.authoritarianism. Others have spoken of the militarisation of governance
:21:49. > :21:54.in eastern Libya. That is the reality. Libyans to live that law
:21:55. > :21:58.and order because of the chaos that has so far prevailed, especially
:21:59. > :22:08.since 2014. You say there is evidence that the GNA government is
:22:09. > :22:11.tolerating terrorism, and that Qatar, for example, has been
:22:12. > :22:15.supporting terrorism in western Libya. But I have not seen anything
:22:16. > :22:21.to back up these claims. Where is the evidence? There were some
:22:22. > :22:28.shipments of weapons sent by Qatar in Tripoli. We know that. But what I
:22:29. > :22:34.know, and what I have seen as cast-iron evidence is the shipment
:22:35. > :22:39.of arms coming to you from the UAE, from Egypt... You seem to be focused
:22:40. > :22:46.on the Qatari connection in the West, when it appears there is a
:22:47. > :22:51.connection with the UAE, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, here it is. These are
:22:52. > :22:56.weapons that have been coming to Europe. I am not privy to those
:22:57. > :23:01.details. But you are the so-called Foreign Minister! But I am not
:23:02. > :23:05.involved with military affairs. I cannot co-operate what you have just
:23:06. > :23:13.said. I know there is a great deal of support that has been provided by
:23:14. > :23:18.Egypt. I am mindful that in 2011, the Libyan people rose up against a
:23:19. > :23:24.long-time dictator, more marked Gaddafi. Sometimes it looks as
:23:25. > :23:31.though, in a figure of Khalifa Haftar, there might once again be
:23:32. > :23:41.flirting with a potential dictator. -- Muammar Gaddafi. The world wants
:23:42. > :23:50.a peaceful, United, safe Libya, where Terry -- terrorism is
:23:51. > :23:55.eliminated. Do you think we will see that in the next one or two years? I
:23:56. > :24:00.am hopeful, optimistic, about that. There is a great deal of will among
:24:01. > :24:05.Libyans that we should put an end to this split in Libya, and the fact
:24:06. > :24:19.that we have two governments, and to put an end to this case that we have
:24:20. > :24:25.suffered from. -- chaos. The top Libyan football team are preparing
:24:26. > :24:29.for the new season. Remarkably, through all of the years of
:24:30. > :24:42.violence, the Libyan national league has kept going. One semblance of
:24:43. > :24:47.unity amid the division and chaos. A generation of young Libyan men have
:24:48. > :24:54.grown up with guns, militias, and war. In eastern Libya, Khalifa
:24:55. > :24:59.Haftar is seen as a warrior and a winner. But on the other side of
:25:00. > :25:01.this crippled country is ultimate victory -- is ultimate victory seems
:25:02. > :25:12.much less certain. -- his ultimate.